New operations confirmed - sort of ... plus a return to 2.0 era style development.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

To quote dulfy...

 

New Operation – Superweapon is the ultimate boss of the operation. Unlike previous operations, they are not waiting until Fall to release all 5 operation bosses. First operation boss will come in 5.2, all 5 will be released before end of the year. •First operation boss is Tyth, the God of Rage in Zakuulan Pantheon.

•http://i.imgur.com/1dqFxdW.jpg

•This operation will be on PTS in about 2 weeks. They may either do an open PTS or a closed PTS and open PTS later.

•Most of the story for Iokath will be wrapped in the storyline but the operations bosses are also tied to the story and serve as a side track.

•Stuff coming to adjust CXP gains for operations in 4-8 weeks. They will do it before patch 5.2.

•Companions return are separate from the operation.

 

 

Pretty happy with this tact - in line with what I thought around having mini operations.

Assuming of course it's not just a world boss and has a bit of story leading to the encounter with some mobs to kill and maybe even some puzzles which would be good.

 

It might not be a full operation but much better than waiting all year for a full 5 boss encounter.

 

The other interesting content cycle stuff so far ...

 

Master Mode Uprisings – hard challenge for 4 players. They will have additional mechanics and coming with 5.2.

New storyline – Return to Iokath. Scouts from the Alliance, Republic, and Sith have all arrived on Iokath. You, as the alliance commander, need to pick which side you will be on and take the super weapon. You can side with the opposite faction from your starting faction (i.e. Empire players can side with Republic and vice versa)

•Returning companions – Quinn and Elara. If you side with the Empire, Quinn will return. If you side with Republic, Elara will return.

•New Daily area on Iokath. Storyline will unlock repeatable dailies on Iokath. New gameplay options with these dailies much like we did for the chapters. There will be a new reputation track depending on which side you pick.

 

Very much like an Oricon expansion ( which I loved ) , new dailies with story links, new reputation, not locked to 1 faction is cool ( we could reply it to another faction? Though more likely this would for an alt ).

 

Even seems they learned the lesson of Oricon/SoR and aren't locking the main story content behind the operation boss but likewise aren't giving you a pure alternative to the operation content that is solo. If you want to see the side story/quest you have to do the operation - this is exactly what I hoped it would be.

 

Master mode uprisings having new tactics than just more HP is good too.

 

Honestly this is what I was hoping to see from this expansion and is quite in line with what many of us on the forums have been asking for.

 

I can definitely say I will resub for 5.2 ( if it's soon and good sub rewards ahead of it I might even sub through to it ) - thanks BWA this is more like what I personally wanted to see.

[DanNV]

I can definitely say I will resub for 5.2 ( if it's soon and good sub rewards ahead of it I might even sub through to it ) - thanks BWA this is more like what I personally wanted to see.

 

I won't, not until they fix gearing.

[leehambly]

I won't, not until they fix gearing.

 

They have just emphatically answered that - they will tweak and tune but no reversal. Time to decide what you will do.

Edited January 26, 2017 by leehambly

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I won't, not until they fix gearing.

 

I can enjoy the content with a months sub and not bother gearing I figure.

 

If they want me paying longer to progress through HM+ ( ifi t exists ) then yes gearing would need be fixed, I'm not going to try gear via this method but luckily for this sort content I won't need to gear.

[Baraxis]

What I got from the stream was a sense of desperation from them. They seem to be trying to figure out how to fix this mess but don't have the resources to do it. OR, they are stringing us along. I cant decide yet.

 

The one boss every so often, till they hit 5 by the end of the year is such an obvious indication that they are TIGHT on resources. There should be a plethora of "op brainstormed stuff" piled up from the past 2 years. Developing it should be much shorter now.

 

The rate we gain CXP will go up, they seem to know it but are stretching it out, based on the stream they just completed. My alts are not gonna wait, and if they just add stuff later and not retroactive anything the 20 odd people we have "casualing it out with us" will bolt. Once the Guild stronghold closes up and the support we give ends....they will fold.

 

The stream does not bode well for the future. Too little...too desparate.

[IstariZen]

To quote dulfy...

 

 

 

Pretty happy with this tact - in line with what I thought around having mini operations.

Assuming of course it's not just a world boss and has a bit of story leading to the encounter with some mobs to kill and maybe even some puzzles which would be good.

 

It might not be a full operation but much better than waiting all year for a full 5 boss encounter.

 

The other interesting content cycle stuff so far ...

 

 

 

Very much like an Oricon expansion ( which I loved ) , new dailies with story links, new reputation, not locked to 1 faction is cool ( we could reply it to another faction? Though more likely this would for an alt ).

 

Even seems they learned the lesson of Oricon/SoR and aren't locking the main story content behind the operation boss but likewise aren't giving you a pure alternative to the operation content that is solo. If you want to see the side story/quest you have to do the operation - this is exactly what I hoped it would be.

 

Master mode uprisings having new tactics than just more HP is good too.

 

Honestly this is what I was hoping to see from this expansion and is quite in line with what many of us on the forums have been asking for.

 

I can definitely say I will resub for 5.2 ( if it's soon and good sub rewards ahead of it I might even sub through to it ) - thanks BWA this is more like what I personally wanted to see.

 

Pretty excited about this!

[IstariZen]

What I got from the stream was a sense of desperation from them. They seem to be trying to figure out how to fix this mess but don't have the resources to do it. OR, they are stringing us along. I cant decide yet.

 

The one boss every so often, till they hit 5 by the end of the year is such an obvious indication that they are TIGHT on resources. There should be a plethora of "op brainstormed stuff" piled up from the past 2 years. Developing it should be much shorter now.

 

The rate we gain CXP will go up, they seem to know it but are stretching it out, based on the stream they just completed. My alts are not gonna wait, and if they just add stuff later and not retroactive anything the 20 odd people we have "casualing it out with us" will bolt. Once the Guild stronghold closes up and the support we give ends....they will fold.

 

The stream does not bode well for the future. Too little...too desparate.

 

You just will not be happy no matter what you hear. You go into it with full negativity and trying finding any little thing wrong with it that you can. Im not going to convince anyone that they are behaving like that, but I personally am excited for 5.2 and I imagine a lot of people are. They are being insanely reasonable and trying to make the game as good as they possibly can. 5.1 forward has been constant progress for the fans of the game, thats awesome.

[menofhorror]

5.2 looks like a very solid patch.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

What I got from the stream was a sense of desperation from them. They seem to be trying to figure out how to fix this mess but don't have the resources to do it. OR, they are stringing us along. I cant decide yet.

 

The one boss every so often, till they hit 5 by the end of the year is such an obvious indication that they are TIGHT on resources. There should be a plethora of "op brainstormed stuff" piled up from the past 2 years. Developing it should be much shorter now.

 

The rate we gain CXP will go up, they seem to know it but are stretching it out, based on the stream they just completed. My alts are not gonna wait, and if they just add stuff later and not retroactive anything the 20 odd people we have "casualing it out with us" will bolt. Once the Guild stronghold closes up and the support we give ends....they will fold.

 

The stream does not bode well for the future. Too little...too desparate.

 

It bodes a lot better than what I had envisioned and someone else mentioned "Tactial 8 person uprisings"

 

Of course they are short on resources but this imo is making the most of what they have. Also it's clear they weren't developing operations earlier and I'd rather this 1 at a time approach then a 5 boss operation at the end of the year.

[eriksarcasm]

 

I can definitely say I will resub for 5.2 ( if it's soon and good sub rewards ahead of it I might even sub through to it ) - thanks BWA this is more like what I personally wanted to see.

 

Well, I for one am glad to see that you and some others are bring optimistic about this and have decided not to walk away just yet.

 

Some posters have pointed out that releasing a new op in this manner shows that they haven't been thinking about doing them until now. They're probably right, but tha does prove one thing: they do listen. Because of the uproar you and other have made over the lack of new ops, they're finally back in the dev's sights as something the community wants. So kudos to the community for that, and keep uproaring because they've shown they're willing (if not immediately able) to give the community what it wants, and we have a long way to go.

[Divona]

The stream does not bode well for the future. Too little...too desparate.

 

Yes. For me and some others it was obvious for many years their resources are very tight and budget is small. They had to choose ether story content only or group content. They decided to focus on story and solo (recycle content) mostly for many years. Now they realize this isnt going well for another 1+ year for them in long run. So now they are desperate and announced that they are working on 1 new ops but release each boss when its done.

 

Thats a confirmation right there that its desperate to keep those last subs they have left. I do give credit them for trying even when we waited SO MANY years for this to happen. Its now make it or break it.

Probably by summer we know what will be the swtor fate end of 2017 and what plans they have 2018.

If subs drop more in 2017 then 2018 will not last long for this game.

 

Now its serious.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Divona

[Avicii]

Yes. For me and some others it was obvious for many years their resources are very tight and budget is small. They had to choose ether story content only or group content. They decided to focus on story and solo (recycle content) mostly for many years. Now they realize this isnt going well for another 1+ year for them in long run. So now they are desperate and announced that they are working on 1 new ops but release each boss when its done.

 

Thats a confirmation right there that its desperate to keep those last subs they have left. I do give credit them for trying even when we waited SO MANY years for this to happen. Its now make it or break it.

Probably by summer we know what will be the swtor fate end of 2017 and what plans they have 2018.

If subs drop more in 2017 then 2018 will not last long for this game.

 

Now its serious.

 

I am afraid unless they move more swiftly with the gearing changes and response time to issues that can be addressed in a timely manner, more people will leave. The fact is the Vets that are here now have mostly been here since the start and it takes a lot to turn them away because they love Star Wars and the game.

 

However drastically changing the games direction, alt and gearing friendly direction with 5.0 was enough to push people over the edge. While we want new content we also want to continue to enjoy the same things we have for the past 5 years. With such a drastic change they make it difficult to continue to do.

 

They say they are listening but they are slow to act and some actions show they dont understand. eg: Musco says this week they know gearing Alts is impossible and they want to address that. 1 Day later they ninja nerf Bolster for PvP essentially ensuring players wont be playing their Alts in PvP, along with other negative side effects.

 

What they should have done is say "we hear you, we will compromise and set bolster to 238 to ensure it is closer to skill vs skill and to ensure PvE players dont get too far ahead in the gear grind and the exploiters of course."

 

That alone would have saved some subs that unsubbed yesterday and would've have displayed that they true are listening. Just throwing the players a small bone. Instead they went the other way and created more animosity with some players.

 

I am glad they are finally addressing real MMO group PvE however I am not sure player retention will be high given the current state of the game it is not fun for a lot of players that enjoyed 4.0 in particularly.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Avicii

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Well, I for one am glad to see that you and some others are bring optimistic about this and have decided not to walk away just yet.

 

Some posters have pointed out that releasing a new op in this manner shows that they haven't been thinking about doing them until now. They're probably right, but tha does prove one thing: they do listen. Because of the uproar you and other have made over the lack of new ops, they're finally back in the dev's sights as something the community wants. So kudos to the community for that, and keep uproaring because they've shown they're willing (if not immediately able) to give the community what it wants, and we have a long way to go.

 

I've always tried to be fair in my opinions and call it like I see it.

 

This is why a couple of years back I was a supposed white knight and these days a supposed ... dark knight I guess lol.

 

Anyway I agree they clearly weren't looking at ops until late last year when they said a renewed focus on group content and at that point probably only just sat down to think "so what does this renewed focus mean" and this true development probably not until this year when everyone was back on board.

 

I like this episodic approach for operations since we are getting other content ( dailies ) with it.

 

I'd love to know the development time frame on this too as it would give us expectations on could we expect more over the year?

[Darkbloom]

I've always tried to be fair in my opinions and call it like I see it.

 

This is why a couple of years back I was a supposed white knight and these days a supposed ... dark knight I guess lol.

 

Anyway I agree they clearly weren't looking at ops until late last year when they said a renewed focus on group content and at that point probably only just sat down to think "so what does this renewed focus mean" and this true development probably not until this year when everyone was back on board.

 

I like this episodic approach for operations since we are getting other content ( dailies ) with it.

 

I'd love to know the development time frame on this too as it would give us expectations on could we expect more over the year?

 

This is vastly better than I was expecting. Vastly.

 

Two returned companions. A new operation. Extended story. Even a dailies area.

 

I play pvp more than anything else and I don't care (at all) about new pvp maps. I'm honestly a little confused why anyone would care--it's pvp.

 

Anyway, yeah, my sub runs out in a few days--I see myself subbing again April. By then hopefully they'll have the GC mess sorted.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This is vastly better than I was expecting. Vastly.

 

Two returned companions. A new operation. Extended story. Even a dailies area.

 

I play pvp more than anything else and I don't care (at all) about new pvp maps. I'm honestly a little confused why anyone would care--it's pvp.

 

Anyway, yeah, my sub runs out in a few days--I see myself subbing again April. By then hopefully they'll have the GC mess sorted.

 

It would be nice if PVP does get a map or two during the year though, it would all help make they ear on a whole a really well rounded content experience.

[Wayshuba]

Does anyone find it peculiar that it is going to take them 1-2 months to adjust CxP for Operations upwards but it took them a grand total of three days to reduce mob experience down to 1 CxP and three weeks to adjust down for the early part of KP farming.

 

Man, are they playing everyone for complete suckers.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba

[Lunafox]

Congrats you guys, glad you sort of got what you were hoping for. Hope you enjoy your new OP.

[Wayshuba]

Now its serious.

 

And.... now it is too late. Their response to the GC issues (let's just call it complete arrogance) coupled with the lack of content was the straw that broke the camel's back for many. Now they are trying to stave off the blood loss - and you know it is happening because when has BW EVER given away their plans for an entire year.

 

They still will not bring themselves to admit that their current sub losses are primarily a result of the clusterduck that is the GC system. I bet, had they just updated the gear vendors and left things as they were with 4.0 gearing, they would have kept more subs than they are now.

 

As a customer, I am done in 19 days for good. As an EA shareholder, I will look with curiosity when the Q1 financials come out to see if anything is said about this title.

[Genada]

I will be back when the new expansion comes out to then do all the new content they have added and then leave for the next year or two. A pattern I have stuck with since they quit adding new group content.

 

Sorry but I really feel bad for players of this game at this point. The amount of content they add is just sad. You get more group content in games like GTA online at this point. Really it's that bad.

 

No game gets away with putting out as little as SWToR does. What they call expansions other games call patches. Really go look at any other mmo that has put a expansion out over the last couple of years and find me one with less content then SWToR puts out.

 

A mmo that puts out a expansion without new ops, without new flash points. It's like they are trolling the players at this point.

[Wayshuba]

I will be back when the new expansion comes out to then do all the new content they have added and then leave for the next year or two. A pattern I have stuck with since they quit adding new group content.

 

Sorry but I really feel bad for players of this game at this point. The amount of content they add is just sad. You get more group content in games like GTA online at this point. Really it's that bad.

 

No game gets away with putting out as little as SWToR does. What they call expansions other games call patches. Really go look at any other mmo that has put a expansion out over the last couple of years and find me one with less content then SWToR puts out.

 

A mmo that puts out a expansion without new ops, without new flash points. It's like they are trolling the players at this point.

 

Bingo! I posted this on another thread but will repost here for the point. Here is what a company half the size of EA is put into a $20 expansion:

 

Here is one for comparison:

• Level cap increase to 60 (from 50 to accommodate a lot of new content)
  
• Three new character classes
  
• Three new zones that are each three times the size of the original in game zones (i.e, equivalent to nine zones) that are fully explorable (you know, real zones not corriders used once for a story mission)
  
• A new playable race
  
• Flying mounts
  
• 819 new quests (including 3 unique quests for EACH class)
  
• Story continuation from level 50 (not an entirely new story like SWTOR)
  
• 18 new 4-man dungeons
  
• 6 new 8-man raids (level 60)
  
• 3 new 24-man raids (level 60)
  
• Three new abilities for all classes
  
• Three new PvP modes
  
• 11 Mini-games including a casino/carnival games, mount racing and a few others.
  

 

All told it takes a few months to play through the content of that expansion. Just FYI, the base game prior to the expansion had 1,268 quests, 29 dungeons, 6 8-man raids (level 50), 3 24-man raids (level 50) and nine zones (which are 1/3 the size of the expansion zones). In other words, the expansion was equivalent in content to almost 75% of the original game. In fact, people are still playing through the content since the expansion launched and another expansion, similar in scope and size, is launching this June.

 

What did we get with SWTOR 5.0 "expansion" for new content:

• 9 story chapters
  
• 5 uprisings
  

All told, it is about 6-8 hours to play through the content and 90% of it is really not repeatable. People were pretty much done with this the first week it launched.

 

And here is what that same company put in a patch (http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/d90ea3ee6d083eaba4f22e5deefe934b0a0a464e) which is still ten times more than BioWare put into an expansion.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Does anyone find it peculiar that it is going to take them 1-2 months to adjust CxP for Operations upwards but it took them a grand total of three days to reduce mob experience down to 1 CxP and three weeks to adjust down for the early part of KP farming.

 

Man, are they playing everyone for complete suckers.

 

A good time to take a 1-2 month break then. CXP grind is not needed for most people anyway, people need to think "do I need to be doing this" before they go out of their way doing it and even think more so still before complaining.

 

I needed it to do HM content but I'm not doing CXP grind it thus will let my sub drop until this next content drop. I guess some people may think they need it now for PVP but honestly after removing that bolster I would unsub immediately if I were a PVP player and seeing that if I felt my only other option was the GC grind.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

And.... now it is too late. Their response to the GC issues (let's just call it complete arrogance) coupled with the lack of content was the straw that broke the camel's back for many. Now they are trying to stave off the blood loss - and you know it is happening because when has BW EVER given away their plans for an entire year.

 

They still will not bring themselves to admit that their current sub losses are primarily a result of the clusterduck that is the GC system. I bet, had they just updated the gear vendors and left things as they were with 4.0 gearing, they would have kept more subs than they are now.

 

As a customer, I am done in 19 days for good. As an EA shareholder, I will look with curiosity when the Q1 financials come out to see if anything is said about this title.

 

Q1? You're a shareholder who has lost track of what period we are in? Hope you aren't investing too heavily there pal.

 

I will however watch the future with interest around the "I am done in 19 days for good" in particular the "for good" part. Too often people are disingenuous about their "quitting" which is why at least when I saw I will I justify it with things that would bring me back so I don't look too foolish when I resub a couple of months later ( if that ).

 

BWA please remove the credit cap so I really don't need sub anymore besides new content!

[Wayshuba]

Q1? You're a shareholder who has lost track of what period we are in? Hope you aren't investing too heavily there pal.

 

I will however watch the future with interest around the "I am done in 19 days for good" in particular the "for good" part. Too often people are disingenuous about their "quitting" which is why at least when I saw I will I justify it with things that would bring me back so I don't look too foolish when I resub a couple of months later ( if that ).

 

BWA please remove the credit cap so I really don't need sub anymore besides new content!

 

No, I know next reporting will be Q4. However, there will be an artificial inflation from the "return for one month subs then leave again" that will be in that quarterly. So smoke and mirrors. Q1 (reported in May) will be when the true effect of the 5.0 GC system and it's drain on subs is revealed. That is why I said Q1 reporting.

 

Also, I will make it easy for you. Sub runs out on Feb. 14. I bet you will not see a post from me again on these forums after this. It is laughable how little content they put out for this game. Guild has moved on. Three MMOs being explored now and, once we meet about them, new home will be decided and we move on. Guild has been together 15 years - SWTOR wasn't the first and it won't be the last. So, there is nothing left to keep me... because the content and the tremendously bad RNG GC System - which they are NOT going to let go off, there is nothing to bring me back too.

 

And, for what it is worth, spend some time on the Off-Topic forums for a bit with many who said in December their subs were running out. You'll notice the majority of them do not have posts on these forums anymore past the date they admitted they were done.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No, I know next reporting will be Q4. However, there will be an artificial inflation from the "return for one month subs then leave again" that will be in that quarterly. So smoke and mirrors. Q1 (reported in May) will be when the true effect of the 5.0 GC system and it's drain on subs is revealed. That is why I said Q1 reporting.

 

Well we are in Q4 now but next report will be on Q3 not Q4? It's due within the week.

 

Also, I will make it easy for you. Sub runs out on Feb. 14. I bet you will not see a post from me again on these forums after this. It is laughable how little content they put out for this game. Guild has moved on. Three MMOs being explored now and, once we meet about them, new home will be decided and we move on. Guild has been together 15 years - SWTOR wasn't the first and it won't be the last. So, there is nothing left to keep me... because the content and the tremendously bad RNG GC System - which they are NOT going to let go off, there is nothing to bring me back too.

 

And, for what it is worth, spend some time on the Off-Topic forums for a bit with many who said in December their subs were running out. You'll notice the majority of them do not have posts on these forums anymore past the date they admitted they were done.

 

Meh I believe you , until you come back. Just pointing out the flaw in the "i'll never return logic" or well lack of logic. It's sort of cutting off the nose to spite the face. The game may very well offer up something you want to experience and you then return, pay and either eat humble cake, post under another account or just refuse to use forums even though you returned to the game.

 

Many people say they are unsubbing, very few say they'll never be back. That's an emotional statement more than a logical one.

[Wayshuba]

Well we are in Q4 now but next report will be on Q3 not Q4? It's due within the week.

 

You are referencing fiscal quarters, I was referencing calendar quarters. Yes, fiscal quarter for EA end Dec. 31 and will be reporting Jan. 31. But it is still calendar quarter 4. As we are currently in calendar Q1 (EAs Fiscal Q4).

 

Either way, differences between our quarter definitions aside, this current report will not accurately reflect the true impact of the expansion as Dec. will be loaded with many players that sub for just that month for the story and move on once it is done (and there are quite a few of those). So the following quarter (the one we are in - calendar Q1, EA fiscal Q4 will be the one to watch when that is covered at the very end of April/beginning of May).

 

Being I can't remember one time in the history of this game where so many livestreams were done right after expansion launch, or a survey sent from EA, or BW even giving away their development plans for almost a whole year as they did earlier today, I am not expecting the news to be good.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba