Bolster Changes in Game Update 5.1

[kvandertulip]

We hear you on that and we are committed to continue working on improving the gearing experience in the game. Still, we want to make sure that Bolster is set up properly going forward. We don't want to not fix Bolster because of gearing issues, let's just work on improving gearing as well.

 

-eric

 

Why the continuous problem of trying to fix thing that aren't broken? Pvp gearing was perfect in pre-5.0. Now it is broken.

 

Fix population issues. Fix the content drought. Make a new engine. Those things are actually broken.

[Lpkojihugy]

Improving gearing is what they keep saying. So lets talk about that. If you que for regs and get a four man wz then you get less unassembled pieces than you do for 8 man. So why not allow players to exclude themselves from 4 man ques since as we all know the teams can be stacked against you, as I have had 4 man teams with all dps while the other is comprised of 4 healers. And as we all know you get teams in regs with absolutely no healers, while the other team is stacked with healers and tanks. 20 wins in 8 man regs just to get 1 main piece item will take you a long time and getting a full set piece bonus even longer. Some people just PVP, but this system has made it too much of a grind to gear and therefore if you want to get gear you have to do OPs. well I don't do OPs, never have and never will. Putting players at the total mercy of how lucky or unlucky they are in group composition in wzs to determine the amount of time they have to grind gear is not a acceptable answer. Alas the developers are constantly reinventing the wheel in hopes to make the game more like WOW. Short answer if you want to be a developer for a game like WOW, go work there. You have ruined PVP in SWTOR and have put failure to a whole new level.

[Beyrahl]

I'll accept this new system if you make unassembled components legacy wide.

I see no reason to not make this change, most people play more than just one character, when the grind is this much work, at least let us spice it up, yeah?

[Zindoki]

No reasoning as to why most of the 208 gear bolstered higher than the new 230+ gear? Why relics bolster is still broken? And yes +1 for legacy wide unassembled components. I'd say make the unassembled gear pieces legacy wide but then doing ops would end up people needing on every single one if they can use it or not so it's probably not a good option.

I think command rank should be legacy wide also (sort of like another legacy XP type of thing) and go into an item stash like the cartel market that you can access from all characters. Would be nice, but the current system is ok as long as the unassembled components are legacy wide and also dropped from flashpoints and uprisings.

[Groncho]

Back in 1.0 i had 4 toons and mained only 2. The gearing system was awfull but it didn't hit me so hard so i kept playing even when all my friends from SWG left.

Now i have 14 "mains" in 2 servers. Gearing 1 of them requires hours and hours i don't have, i have my own business and play in between meetings, work and social life. So Imagine gearing the rest. i do have credits so i bought and played the GTN to get 240's on them, I have been using them as i pleased and got almost 1300 tokens. But for example the highest rank i have in 1 toon is L50 (ALMOST 300 ffffffffff)

 

Pls if u wanna use some good ideas from the past;

 

Make UC bind to legacy, so we can manage them as we need (getting a tank gear/getting heal gear) and gearing same Advanced class for bot sides. As it works now even legacy gear is lulzy

Make the duped purple drops exchangable for UC's (50% rate) so we don't HATE this stupid RNG system even more (i have 3 pairs of boots in my shadow)

Make dailies and weeklys drop an x amount of UC's

[MuskyBoy]

The pvp burst does not exist in 5.0, up bolster and nerf life plz

 

Completely agree the TTK is too high and with all the healers that run around nerfing stats other then endurance hasn't helped in the change.

[Lhancelot]

Well thanks for answering the bolster question I appreciate knowing the reasoning behind why bolster was changed, and the reasoning behind the gear grind.

 

I personally hope that PVP rewards are improved upon though, so that PVPing will be equally efficient for gearing up.

 

As it stands now PVE via ops is much more efficient for gearing up.

 

Many players enjoy PVP and not ops, so for those players who PVP for gearing it's disheartening that they have to consider doing ops if they want to get gears faster.

[Master-Nala]

The 5.0 condition was excellent because it made PvP about skill, not gear progression which it should never be. In fact, you did it exactly right by making Bolster go ABOVE the current top tier so that no amount of grinding or exploiting could give you an advantage. Expertise wasn't needed because PvE players couldn't beat Bolster. It was almost exactly how gearing should have been.

 

This is a seriously bone-headed move.

[kissingaiur]

The 5.0 condition was excellent because it made PvP about skill, not gear progression which it should never be. In fact, you did it exactly right by making Bolster go ABOVE the current top tier so that no amount of grinding or exploiting could give you an advantage. Expertise wasn't needed because PvE players couldn't beat Bolster. It was almost exactly how gearing should have been.

 

This is a seriously bone-headed move.

 

5.0 created huge gear gaps and extreme confusion on bolster. Bolster was so complicated that it wasn't easy for players to even optimize their gear. It also took players a million years to get one piece of good gear they needed. Gearing system in 4.0 was extremely better in the sense that gear was almost free and there wasn't a grind. It was the most accessible it had never been.

 

If they wanted to make pvp in this game about skill there shouldn't be gear progression. But yah SWTOR is just stuck in this idea where they think we won't have intensive to play pvp without getting a cookie at the end. We all know that the majority of the players who keep coming back to pvp in this game aren't doing it for the gear grind. They are doing it because this games pvp mechanics are really fun.

 

Remove gear grind. Bolster everyone to the same stats regardless of gear. Make rewards cosmetic.

Edited January 26, 2017 by kissingaiur

[jedcjedcjedc]

I have noticed hps numbers have actually decreased significantly while average dps has stayed about the same in wz's since 5.1. It's not really a big enough sample to say for certain but when healers were getting 5,6,7,8, or even 9k (shown on the records) in wz's now I'm seeing a lot more 2-4k depending on damage done and length of the wz. whereas damage has stayed around 2-3k for most people.

[stoopicus]

This is embarrassing to admit but I've been roflstomping since the patch went live. My main is sitting above the bolster cap because I've been GTNing 240 for several slots. Some stats from my last several matches:

 

Class: Jugg (Immortal, skank gear)

Wins: 100%, guess I lucked in to well geared teams.

Top half for damage: 100%

In the top 2 for damage: 50%

Beat all classes except Merc for damage: 25%

 

NERF JUGG DPS lol. Seriously, I'm not bad but I'm not THAT good. Welcome to the new PvP gearing world.

 

I suspect everyone posting about how they aren't seeing a problem with Bolster now are in similar boats.

 

tl;dr, great for the mains of those of us that can afford good gear; too bad about our alts though, which is tragic - I was having a lot of fun on my alts.

Edited January 26, 2017 by stoopicus

[stoopicus]

Remove gear grind. Bolster everyone to the same stats regardless of gear. Make rewards cosmetic.

 

+1, Hottie speaks for me here.

[Avicii]

This is embarrassing to admit but I've been roflstomping since the patch went live. My main is sitting above the bolster cap because I've been GTNing 240 for several slots. Some stats from my last several matches:

 

Class: Jugg (Immortal, skank gear)

Wins: 100%, guess I lucked in to well geared teams.

Top half for damage: 100%

In the top 2 for damage: 50%

Beat all classes except Merc for damage: 25%

 

NERF JUGG DPS lol. Seriously, I'm not bad but I'm not THAT good. Welcome to the new PvP gearing world.

 

I suspect everyone posting about how they aren't seeing a problem with Bolster now are in similar boats.

 

Again this is great for those that have been playing the game and have gear or can afford it. And have 4.0 set pieces.

 

Eric, New players, returning players and alts are ****ed. They will always be behind the grind because it is so massive. In addition due to the win/lose of tokens given people that are geared will start to group queue further exasperating the players who are trying to gear up. We know what most will do, stop pvping. Alts will not get played which all goes against the prior SWTOR game design which encouraged alts and easy gearing making pvp about skill vs skill not the advantage gained from rng like 1.0, which people hated.

 

Given the way this transpired and the shady application plus the effect on the game it will only have a negative impact. Compromising and upping Bolster to 238 allowing for gear growth and a small advantage would be a bone to throw to the players to show that you actually do listen.

[stoopicus]

Again this is great for those that have been playing the game and have gear or can afford it. And have 4.0 set pieces.

 

Eric, New players, returning players and alts are ****ed.

 

Agreed and as I have been posting elsewhere: this is the most alt-unfriendly change I can picture for PvP.

 

Eric, 5.0 had a lot of weird bolster issues, but one thing was true: it was an amazing time for alts in PvP. I was regularly playing five of my characters in WZs and having a great time, Now I'm going to have to focus on one to stay competitive gear-wise. This is really unfortunate and a step backwards from 5.0.

 

PvP shouldn't be about gear at all. It should MAYBE be biased by the mix of gear you choose but not by the item rating, or at least not nearly as strongly by the item rating.

Edited January 26, 2017 by stoopicus

[Master-Nala]

5.0 created huge gear gaps and extreme confusion on bolster. Bolster was so complicated that it wasn't easy for players to even optimize their gear. It also took players a million years to get one piece of good gear they needed. Gearing system in 4.0 was extremely better in the sense that gear was almost free and there wasn't a grind. It was the most accessible it had never been.

 

If they wanted to make pvp in this game about skill there shouldn't be gear progression. But yah SWTOR is just stuck in this idea where they think we won't have intensive to play pvp without getting a cookie at the end. We all know that the majority of the players who keep coming back to pvp in this game aren't doing it for the gear grind. They are doing it because this games pvp mechanics are really fun.

 

Remove gear grind. Bolster everyone to the same stats regardless of gear. Make rewards cosmetic.

 

Agreed. My only point was that so long as Bolster was better than any gear then gear is irrelevant.

[stoopicus]

Agreed. My only point was that so long as Bolster was better than any gear then gear is irrelevant.

 

Good.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hey folks,

 

For those unaware, in Game Update 5.1 we made the following change:

• Bolster now improves players up to 232 Item Rating (down from 250).

 

This change raised quite a few questions from the PvP community as to why we made the change. I spoke with the team about it and I want to start by confirming that this change is intended, let’s talk about why! When we released Game Update 5.0, Bolster was incorrectly set to Item Rating 250. The goal of Bolster is that it gives a player a minimum bar of power. That is so that they can enter PvP and not be too far behind someone who is at maximum gear, but it allows them enough room so that if they are a more skilled player, they can prevail. Still, getting gear is important and the 250 Bolster made getting any gear virtually unneeded for PvP progression.

 

The reason we moved Bolster down to 232 Item Rating is because of its rating relative to the best gear in the game, which is Item Rating 242. This means that someone with brand new gear entering into a Warzone is at worst, 10 Item Rating away from the best geared players. As an example, this works almost identically to how it worked prior to Knights of the Eternal Throne. During Fallen Empire, the best PvP gear in the game was item rating 208 and Bolster would raise your character to 200, an 8 rating difference. In short, the difference in power now should be almost identical to the difference that existed prior to KOTET.

 

That being said, part of this issue is that we did not communicate this at all to you ahead of time. Not only that, it was similarly missed in the patch notes so you received no warning at all of this change or why it happened. We messed up communicating this to you and I apologize for that. It was never our intent to hide this from you, it was just missed. I have been talking with the team yesterday and today about the changes that were missed and what procedures we can adjust to ensure we don’t miss them in the future.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

That is stupid and you obviously haven't listened to the community. We weren't confused, we know what you did. We aren't happy because it makes pvp about gear vs gear and not skill.

 

I will be unsubbing when I get home as I'm sure many other dedicated pvpers will too. You have ruined this game completely for me now.

[Ottoattack]

We hear you on that and we are committed to continue working on improving the gearing experience in the game. Still, we want to make sure that Bolster is set up properly going forward. We don't want to not fix Bolster because of gearing issues, let's just work on improving gearing as well.

 

-eric

 

How about you set it back at 250 till you figure out the gear issues:rak_02:

 

Next time you guys decide to re-invent the wheel, just remember it is not supposed to be a square.

[Groncho]

set it back to 236 or 240

242 would still be BIS

[stoopicus]

set it back to 236 or 240

242 would still be BIS

 

I've seen Groncho post this twice now and I agree completely.

[Lhancelot]

5.0 created huge gear gaps and extreme confusion on bolster. Bolster was so complicated that it wasn't easy for players to even optimize their gear. It also took players a million years to get one piece of good gear they needed. Gearing system in 4.0 was extremely better in the sense that gear was almost free and there wasn't a grind. It was the most accessible it had never been.

 

If they wanted to make pvp in this game about skill there shouldn't be gear progression. But yah SWTOR is just stuck in this idea where they think we won't have intensive to play pvp without getting a cookie at the end. We all know that the majority of the players who keep coming back to pvp in this game aren't doing it for the gear grind. They are doing it because this games pvp mechanics are really fun.

 

Remove gear grind. Bolster everyone to the same stats regardless of gear. Make rewards cosmetic.

 

I agree with this.

 

What I find confusing is this shift in philosophy on gearing. SWTOR originally began with a grinding gear system.

 

Within time, after thousands of complaints and many patches that was phased out and the devs created a much more flexible system for gearing via PVP.

 

If you worked hard and PVP'd a lot, you were rewarded for your efforts with wz comms that then could be spent gearing up in an organized fashion.

 

You knew exactly how many comms you needed for specific pieces, and you had a chance to really play with gears, mods, armorings, etc.

 

Essentially PVPers had the most freedom ever around 4.0, with how the gearing system offered so much customization and all of it was possible via PVP.

 

Why the change in philosophy? Why the removal of choices and freedoms to gear while doing it all through PVP?

 

I am really mystified by this decision.

 

If it aint broke, don't fix it. I feel this system was a fix for something that simply was not broken.

 

This is a regression of the gearing system, and all you got to do is look at the history of SWTOR and how it progressed from gear grinding to being able to gear efficiently and in a fun way.

 

I think you guys spent years taking 5 steps forward, and then in one months time took 5 steps backwards again.

[Groncho]

I agree with this.

 

What I find confusing is this shift in philosophy on gearing. SWTOR originally began with a grinding gear system.

 

Within time, after thousands of complaints and many patches that was phased out and the devs created a much more flexible system for gearing via PVP.

 

If you worked hard and PVP'd a lot, you were rewarded for your efforts with wz comms that then could be spent gearing up in an organized fashion.

 

You knew exactly how many comms you needed for specific pieces, and you had a chance to really play with gears, mods, armorings, etc.

 

Essentially PVPers had the most freedom ever around 4.0, with how the gearing system offered so much customization and all of it was possible via PVP.

 

Why the change in philosophy? Why the removal of choices and freedoms to gear while doing it all through PVP?

 

I am really mystified by this decision.

 

If it aint broke, don't fix it. I feel this system was a fix for something that simply was not broken.

 

This is a regression of the gearing system, and all you got to do is look at the history of SWTOR and how it progressed from gear grinding to being able to gear efficiently and in a fun way.

 

I think you guys spent years taking 5 steps forward, and then in one months time took 5 steps backwards again.

 

They have to tank the game and match the developing line with thew grinding line.

It's called milking a business.

Low investment so the revenue is higher.

in Theory

Edited January 26, 2017 by Groncho

[TrixxieTriss]

We hear you on that and we are committed to continue working on improving the gearing experience in the game. Still, we want to make sure that Bolster is set up properly going forward. We don't want to not fix Bolster because of gearing issues, let's just work on improving gearing as well.

 

-eric

 

Eric, I think others have made the point already that pvp should be skill vs skill. Not gear vs gear. Once again you guys haven't listened to what the player base has told you.

I'm not going to rehash it for you because if you haven't heard what we are saying by now, you never will.

 

I have officially unsubscribed now. Since 5.0 was released you have lost 3 subs in my household from people who love Star Wars and were passionate swtor players and who cared what happened to this game.

 

PS : I sent you a PM to explain why I'm leaving. Maybe you can match my account data to my message and forward it to the people making these dumb decisions.

I am only a drop in the water, but when all the drops are gone and you are left with an empty bucket, what will you do.

 

My fellow pvpers. If you end up unsubbing because if this, make sure you PM Eric and let him know why.

Edited January 26, 2017 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

I agree with this.

 

What I find confusing is this shift in philosophy on gearing. SWTOR originally began with a grinding gear system.

 

Within time, after thousands of complaints and many patches that was phased out and the devs created a much more flexible system for gearing via PVP.

 

If you worked hard and PVP'd a lot, you were rewarded for your efforts with wz comms that then could be spent gearing up in an organized fashion.

 

You knew exactly how many comms you needed for specific pieces, and you had a chance to really play with gears, mods, armorings, etc.

 

Essentially PVPers had the most freedom ever around 4.0, with how the gearing system offered so much customization and all of it was possible via PVP.

 

Why the change in philosophy? Why the removal of choices and freedoms to gear while doing it all through PVP?

 

I am really mystified by this decision.

 

If it aint broke, don't fix it. I feel this system was a fix for something that simply was not broken.

 

This is a regression of the gearing system, and all you got to do is look at the history of SWTOR and how it progressed from gear grinding to being able to gear efficiently and in a fun way.

 

I think you guys spent years taking 5 steps forward, and then in one months time took 5 steps backwards again.

 

More like 6 steps back

[KittyKat_Karrot]

Yep, the problem isn't bolster, it's that the amount of grinding it takes to get full 242s is absolutely asinine, and a complete 180 from the altoholic-friendly system before 5.0.