Way to go punishing PvPers....

[Psychopyro]

5.1 is just a poorly thought out band aid that leaves us even more agitated because it was only one step in a mile long course to fix this game.

It's not even a band-aid at this point...

 

It's like they came to us in our sleep like Freddy and slashed the crap out of us in our worst nightmare....

[Vember]

Another non pvper adding their 2 cents and don't know what the issue is for dedicated pvpers.

Would I be right in guessing you are a story player who does little or no group content on a regular basis?

 

PvP makes up about 80-90% of my playtime, and I'm not nearly as butthurt about this as some people.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Vember

[DanNV]

I'm not sure what you're complaining about ... the gear grind is all one grind now is it not? We do ANY of the activities we can queue for, earning Command Points and eventually getting another Command Crate for the possibility of getting another good gear piece each time. Since PvP gear and PvE gear are the SAME gear now, if anything it's easier to gear up for PvP because all queue'd activities get you a little closer to gearing up completely.

 

LMAO. Nice try but only 2/10.

[anonnn]

Another non pvper adding their 2 cents and don't know what the issue is for dedicated pvpers.

Would I be right in guessing you are a story player who does little or no group content on a regular basis?

 

You should try less trolling, and just go ahead and explain why you think there's a problem with gearing up for PvP in the new Command Rank system. I've leveled to Rank II gear already on almost only Warzones, and I'm unaware of what problem you could POSSIBLY be having with the new system. And if there is some difficulty you're having, how exactly is it pertinent only to PvP purposes? It's the same gear set as for PvE purposes.

 

So... I ask again, what in the world is your difficulty with gearing up for PvP in the current SWToR? FFS just explain it ...

[AscendingSky]

You should try less trolling, and just go ahead and explain why you think there's a problem with gearing up for PvP in the new Command Rank system. I've leveled to Rank II gear already on almost only Warzones, and I'm unaware of what problem you could POSSIBLY be having with the new system. And if there is some difficulty you're having, how exactly is it pertinent only to PvP purposes? It's the same gear set as for PvE purposes.

 

So... I ask again, what in the world is your difficulty with gearing up for PvP in the current SWToR? FFS just explain it ...

 

A whole bunch of people have explained it, in posts on this thread, in posts on other threads in the General Discussion forum, AND in many many threads in the PvP forum. Maybe you should actually read what everyone's saying? Just a thought.

 

Stop insisting people repeat the same arguments they've already made, then crowing how people you disagree with don't have legitimate arguments when they get tired of doing so over and over again. It's borderline sealioning.

[anonnn]

A whole bunch of people have explained it, in posts on this thread, in posts on other threads in the General Discussion forum, AND in many many threads in the PvP forum. Maybe you should actually read what everyone's saying? Just a thought.

 

Stop insisting people repeat the same arguments they've already made, then crowing how people you disagree with don't have legitimate arguments when they get tired of doing so over and over again. It's borderline sealioning.

 

Then no one cares about your problem.

[RagnarAugustus]

Yup and OPS whiners got what they wanted... If you plan it out right, you could have 4 people nearly fully geared in a few days... More then that if you got really lucky with drops... That's better then pre 5.0...

 

With alts and prudent planning, you could have a full 8 geared just as fast... It's BS how much PvP players got shafted.. And then the bolster "fix" really screwed things up between the haves and have nots

 

Not even close although as a raider I wish this was the case. Only the last Ops boss has a guaranteed armor drop, all of the other bosses only have a 30-35% chance to drop armor tokens and in most of my raids only the last boss dropped anything. Nobody's getting a fully geared toon in a few days in 5.1 solely from Operations - especially when you are competing with 8-16 other players for the unassembled tokens unless you've magically found a way to single man an entire Operation.

Edited January 29, 2017 by RagnarAugustus

[Jerba]

I am a PvE player and I feel punished as well. I need 242 gear for my raid group but we are only able to farm Tier 2 pieces in a timely manner, so I am forced to PvP just to turn my Tier 2 pieces into Tier 3, even though I hate PvP. I can't even throw matches or stuck in arenas because that would damage my guild's reputation.

Since 2.0 when achievements are introduced, I played around 700 warzones according to the achievement. Now, within one month I have play over 1000 warzones or I won't get the 242 gear fast enough. And yes, we need the 242 gear because we are missing 5-10% of the DPS checks at the moment.

 

The best solution would be to drop Unassembled Components from PvE (e.g. one component per flashpoint boss, 3 Components per operation boss, with higher drops from harder difficulties), then players have the choice of whether to do PvE or PvP, or both if they want to.

 

The original issue remains: PvE and PvP are completely different game types. For PvE, it is easy to determine skilled players (= whether you can kill a boss or not), while for PvP, you will get the same rewards no matter if you are the best player, are the worst player, or AFK in a corner. So PvP gear must always require a grind, no matter if it is short or long, while PvE must reward based on which bosses you killed. It was so much easier when PvE and PvP gear were separated. Now, it's impossible to make the system fair for both PvE and PvP players.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Jerba

[anonnn]

Are you aware that the Unassembled Components you slowly accumulate while playing Warzones lets you purchase 242 gear?

 

To get started, purchase a Tier 1 gear token from the generic Tier 1 vendor in the outer-ring far right room in Supplies, which costs between 75-120 Unassembled Components depending on which gear piece. Then go next door to turn in that token for an actual gear piece, then run back to the token vendor room and you can UPGRADE the Tier 1 gear piece to a Tier 2 token, which costs between 115-180 Unassembled Components. Again, run next door to turn in the Tier 2 token for an actual gear piece, then run back to the token vendor room to UPGRADE the Tier 2 gear piece to a Tier 3 token, costing between 175-270 Unassembled Components. Then one last trip next door to turn in the Tier 3 token for your final 242 gear piece which is a set piece if it's an armor piece.

 

The total number of Unassembled Components for each 242 piece is as follows:

 

. . . . . . 365 : Waist / Wrist

. . . . . . 380 : Earpiece / Implant / Relic

. . . . . . 475 : Head / Chest / Hands / Legs / Feet

. . . . . . 570 : Mainhand / Offhand

 

With a little dedicated work you'll have a full 242 set on your main character ... it really wasn't terrifically difficult since you can buy a specific 242 piece using the Unassembled Components.

[kamukotak]

Are you aware that the Unassembled Components you slowly accumulate while playing Warzones lets you purchase 242 gear?

 

To get started, purchase a Tier 1 gear token from the generic Tier 1 vendor in the outer-ring far right room in Supplies, which costs between 75-120 Unassembled Components depending on which gear piece. Then go next door to turn in that token for an actual gear piece, then run back to the token vendor room and you can UPGRADE the Tier 1 gear piece to a Tier 2 token, which costs between 115-180 Unassembled Components. Again, run next door to turn in the Tier 2 token for an actual gear piece, then run back to the token vendor room to UPGRADE the Tier 2 gear piece to a Tier 3 token, costing between 175-270 Unassembled Components. Then one last trip next door to turn in the Tier 3 token for your final 242 gear piece which is a set piece if it's an armor piece.

 

The total number of Unassembled Components for each 242 piece is as follows:

 

. . . . . . 365 : Waist / Wrist

. . . . . . 380 : Earpiece / Implant / Relic

. . . . . . 475 : Head / Chest / Hands / Legs / Feet

. . . . . . 570 : Mainhand / Offhand

 

With a little dedicated work you'll have a full 242 set on your main character ... it really wasn't terrifically difficult since you can buy a specific 242 piece using the Unassembled Components.

 

This is IMO, the most flawed part of the game at the moment. People do a few story mode operations to get the startup gear (230) and afterwards EV or KP HM to get a few easy 236 pieces.Then ist just PVP (GSF) to get to the 242 stuff. So what's the point in running NIM operations since PVP is so much "easier" They just have to do the PVP daylie, weekly and even if they loose they still get components. My guild is running premades all day long because gearing up this way is so much more efficient. Want some easy 242 wrist piece? Just wait for raghul event and do 16 man HM with 8 or less people. Switch to alts and repeat. Add some Nefra NIM, open your crates and you might get lucky.

But if you don't like PVE or you don't like PVP you're screwed. Try grinding your gear in PVP from 0 to 242. It will take forever. Try grinding your gear in PVE in NIM operations. You'd have a really hard time even finding a group that does NIM content. Why? Because most people at 236 do PVP for the 242 stuff.

[americanaussie]

As someone who geared up my sorc from level 30 to 70 in 2-3 weeks to gold 236 via pvp in order to do ops, I will say that pvpers aren't being punished. Sure, it's a grind. I won't deny that, but pvper's have it WAY better as you're guaranteed components. They've increased the components. Do your weekly for 40, and your dailies for 12. You get 8 for a win, 3 for a loss. I even bought the wrong stupid chest piece and was still able to earn enough components to buy another within a day of making the mistake. Now, I'm all for making components legacy wide or for increasing the numbers more but pvpers aren't being punished. Edited April 16, 2017 by americanaussie

[Tsillah]

This is IMO, the most flawed part of the game at the moment. People do a few story mode operations to get the startup gear (230) and afterwards EV or KP HM to get a few easy 236 pieces.Then ist just PVP (GSF) to get to the 242 stuff. So what's the point in running NIM operations since PVP is so much "easier" They just have to do the PVP daylie, weekly and even if they loose they still get components. My guild is running premades all day long because gearing up this way is so much more efficient. Want some easy 242 wrist piece? Just wait for raghul event and do 16 man HM with 8 or less people. Switch to alts and repeat. Add some Nefra NIM, open your crates and you might get lucky.

But if you don't like PVE or you don't like PVP you're screwed. Try grinding your gear in PVP from 0 to 242. It will take forever. Try grinding your gear in PVE in NIM operations. You'd have a really hard time even finding a group that does NIM content. Why? Because most people at 236 do PVP for the 242 stuff.

 

You are exactly right. This is my complaint as well. And guess what? It won't be fixed with 5.2 because only the LAST boss in NiM Ops will drop BiS gear. So it will still be better to do PvP for BiS gear than running NiM ops.

[americanaussie]

You are exactly right. This is my complaint as well. And guess what? It won't be fixed with 5.2 because only the LAST boss in NiM Ops will drop BiS gear. So it will still be better to do PvP for BiS gear than running NiM ops.

 

True. So very true. I've now done a few ops. I see exactly what you mean. In reality, everyone should get a bis gear drop from doing NiM. I can't even imagine the difficulty. Those who do that deserve something to show for it. Heck, I think people deserve something from all ops. They are a whole new level of difficult. PvP is just at most a 15 min fun thing that doesn't matter whether you're any good or not.

[Tsillah]

True. So very true. I've now done a few ops. I see exactly what you mean. In reality, everyone should get a bis gear drop from doing NiM. I can't even imagine the difficulty. Those who do that deserve something to show for it. Heck, I think people deserve something from all ops. They are a whole new level of difficult. PvP is just at most a 15 min fun thing that doesn't matter whether you're any good or not.

 

The added issue with this is that not only is NiM difficulty set at the same level as showing up in warzones, it also brings a good number of players into warzones who basically do not really want to be there. That's where the complaints from the PvP community come from about people in warzones who don't care about objectives or learning to PvP or even participate as they just bum around while watching TV or focusing on crafting missions instead of the warzones.

 

Personally I've done it in 5.1. I've gone into warzones and give it a try, but as soon as I see the group isn't going to be able to win from the opposing team (you can often tell very quickly), I just hide in a corner and do something else. I'd rather the warzone is over soon then put effort in a match that's already lost. The combination of people who don't want to be there with the current class balancing means that a lot of warzone matches (at least from my experiences) are just not worth putting effort into, especially since you get rewarded rather well for losing still.

 

Not a nice thing of me to do, so I just gave up on it altogether because I don't enjoy it but that does stump my gearing and I actually haven't logged into the game for at least two weeks now. Since I'm still on a timecard I'll log in for 5.2 to do at least the story, but since this problem will now persist due to BWA's idiotic decision on NiM loot, I am not expecting to care about gearing up because I still don't want to PvP and ruin other people's fun in warzones in the process.

[kamukotak]

While I agree that the current system is good method to bring people to play PVP it has rellay bad effect on PVE and maybe on PVP as well. I would really change it in a way that at least BIS gear is seperated into PVP and PVE gear again. So that you will only be able to obtain the best gear for PVE in NIM operations and the best PVP gear by reaching a certain win/loss ratio. A little like Blade and Soul where they have different levels for Arena PVP. Meaning players will be matched with equally skilled players and work their way up the ranks. This way PVP Players would still be able to buy PVE stuff up to a certain level, but would have to play NIM operations to gain this BIS gear in PVE. On the other hand PVE players could still compete in PVP but would have to reach a certain PVP rank to obtain the best gear in PVP.

[Valceanu]

personally I enjoy doing all types of content and detest carrying around 2 sets of gear... not to mention it makes no sense flavor wise. so yeah, shared gear works fine for me...

[americanaussie]

The added issue with this is that not only is NiM difficulty set at the same level as showing up in warzones, it also brings a good number of players into warzones who basically do not really want to be there. That's where the complaints from the PvP community come from about people in warzones who don't care about objectives or learning to PvP or even participate as they just bum around while watching TV or focusing on crafting missions instead of the warzones.

 

Personally I've done it in 5.1. I've gone into warzones and give it a try, but as soon as I see the group isn't going to be able to win from the opposing team (you can often tell very quickly), I just hide in a corner and do something else. I'd rather the warzone is over soon then put effort in a match that's already lost. The combination of people who don't want to be there with the current class balancing means that a lot of warzone matches (at least from my experiences) are just not worth putting effort into, especially since you get rewarded rather well for losing still.

 

Not a nice thing of me to do, so I just gave up on it altogether because I don't enjoy it but that does stump my gearing and I actually haven't logged into the game for at least two weeks now. Since I'm still on a timecard I'll log in for 5.2 to do at least the story, but since this problem will now persist due to BWA's idiotic decision on NiM loot, I am not expecting to care about gearing up because I still don't want to PvP and ruin other people's fun in warzones in the process.

 

A shame. I almost wish I could play with you, but I'm one of those who gets yelled at when people want to just hand the game over and stop going for objectives. Although, I disagree a little on the "you know you're going to lose early on". Sure, sometimes, you do. But, take tonight for example. PvP popped for me, it was the hypergate, and low and behold, I joined a game already in progress. In fact, I had to wait with 2 other new players while the gates did their insta kill detonation. Our team was slightly behind, but only slightly. We jumped in and gave it our all. The game remained head to head then we got behind. It looked like we would lose, but we didn't. We pulled through with a fab victory.

 

I don't love pvp, but I find it great practice to learn skills. Sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it's hilarious, and sometimes it's soul crushing and utterly frustrating. . I really do wish I could play/learn from you. I'm still going through my endless cycle of "Do I suck?" fears though and I don't care what other pvpers think of me since they aren't my guild/friends. I guess that's why I'm cool with learning my class through pvp with strangers. lol. I'm grateful to those who have put up with me despite my many mistakes in pvp, and probably ops.

[Soljin]

They need to return to one currency for gear like they originally planned.

 

They need to remove all gearing from crates and relegate command crates to a reward system for playing but not part of gearing.

 

They should leave commendations in the crates to help with gearing but no actual gear in the crates...

 

Reward the (One) currency for Dailies/Weeklies boss drops and completing tasks AKA FPs, WZs, Ops etc...Place gear back on all PvE mob bosses, world bosses, rare spawns etc...

 

Have gear vendors show 2x identical sets.

 

Set one with a lower commendation cost but also a decently high Valor requirement raising the Valor requirement for each tier.

 

Have the second (Identical set) have a bit higher commendation cost but no valor requirement (for PvE)...

 

This would allow the cost of each set to be adjusted easily if it is found a bit out of balance....

 

Concerning crates, these should not be a one and done crate...Bioware should be adding new rewards to these crates at least as often as they update the items on their Cartel Market...this is a fair amount of attention to give the Subscriber game in relation to the Micro transaction market which at times they have appeared to favor.

 

On a side note I picked up on another persons idea on these forums that I really think they should put in the game.... Add a player PvP ranking system and stat sheet that records all player achievements cumulative and reward players based on who is on top per category each month.

 

For Instance (Top 5 defender points) gets a Silver weapon crystal, (Top 5 healing) is rewarded with a certain highly sought after gear skin set, (Top 5 damage) is rewarded with a rare weapon skin...and so on. I really think this would encourage players to try harder in WZs and bring motivation to not only join PvP but try and perform at a higher level.

 

Ranked is great but until they stop the Hacking/Cheating/Win trading it will never be anything popular enough to spend development resources on... It needs to be made a viable competitive environment before it is invested in further.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Soljin

[americanaussie]

While I agree that the current system is good method to bring people to play PVP it has rellay bad effect on PVE and maybe on PVP as well. I would really change it in a way that at least BIS gear is seperated into PVP and PVE gear again. So that you will only be able to obtain the best gear for PVE in NIM operations and the best PVP gear by reaching a certain win/loss ratio. A little like Blade and Soul where they have different levels for Arena PVP. Meaning players will be matched with equally skilled players and work their way up the ranks. This way PVP Players would still be able to buy PVE stuff up to a certain level, but would have to play NIM operations to gain this BIS gear in PVE. On the other hand PVE players could still compete in PVP but would have to reach a certain PVP rank to obtain the best gear in PVP.

 

NO. I don't want a two gear system. I never understood expertise and hated having to switch when wz popped while in pve. I want one specific gear.. I like using whatever aspect I want to play to gear my characters.

[mmmbuddah]

As someone who geared up my sorc from level 30 to 70 in 2-3 weeks to gold 236 via pvp in order to do ops, I will say that pvpers aren't being punished. Sure, it's a grind. I won't deny that, but pvper's have it WAY better as you're guaranteed components. They've increased the components. Do your weekly for 40, and your dailies for 12. You get 8 for a win, 3 for a loss. I even bought the wrong stupid chest piece and was still able to earn enough components to buy another within a day of making the mistake. Now, I'm all for making components legacy wide or for increasing the numbers more but pvpers aren't being punished.

 

You must have a lot of time on your hands. For us normal mortals, this system is the worst system to ever be introduced to this game. Thank god the genius behind it got fired. I hope no gaming company ever hires him again. And if they do, stars have mercy on that games soul.

[mmmbuddah]

NO. I don't want a two gear system. I never understood expertise and hated having to switch when wz popped while in pve. I want one specific gear.. I like using whatever aspect I want to play to gear my characters.

 

So you want pvpers to be forced to grind for months on end, instead of you spending 10 seconds to switch gear because you dont understand that you had to get expertise to 2018, which could be accomplished within 2 hours MAXIMUM pre 5,0?

 

That logic................

[Soljin]

NO. I don't want a two gear system. I never understood expertise and hated having to switch when wz popped while in pve. I want one specific gear.. I like using whatever aspect I want to play to gear my characters.

 

Expertise (AKA PvP specific) gear was originally built to add a grind level to gearing...It never actually served a function that could not be done in a single gear system via bolster...

 

PvP actually created a gear imbalance in world PvP and made it so that random passers by could not participate unless they had full PvP gear.

 

Expertise was a horrible system and needs to stay gone... People that want expertise back in my experience only PvP and think that it is somehow related to them getting PvP balance and easier gear acquisition....that is not the case.

 

A single gear system allows people to change play styles and experience all ranges of content seamlessly minus maybe switching up two pieces to up your accuracy for high end content (still a single gear system).

 

Bolster is the best way to manage WZ gear deficit and all they have to do is raise bolster to top tier gear levels to fix gear deficit across all WZs...

 

Make no mistake they lowered bolster to create a gear deficit on purpose because Bioware saw this as an opportunity to bring the gear grind motivation to PvP. The current gear deficit complaint from PvPers was created by Bioware on purpose...Straight up.

 

If they went back to Expertise I would stop participating in high end PvE again....and right now since PvP is garbage that means I don't really play anymore...

 

At least with a single gear system I was able to change play styles and once I have higher tier gear I may begin to PvP again since I will no longer be at a disadvantage...

 

After participating in PvP since Beta I refuse to once again take a beating through a massive gear grind to get back to ground zero in PvP...

 

Expertise would have made sure I never PvPed again...Glad its gone.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Soljin

[americanaussie]

So you want pvpers to be forced to grind for months on end, instead of you spending 10 seconds to switch gear because you dont understand that you had to get expertise to 2018, which could be accomplished within 2 hours MAXIMUM pre 5,0?

 

That logic................

 

PFFFT. OMG. Exaggeration much? If you've read my previous posts...for the love of God, read them, then you'd know I am not a fan of the grind fest.

BUT FFS...how will you gear up FASTER because it's PVP gear? AND It's taken me a week to go from 230s to all gold 236s. ONE FREAKING WEEK. And I've only been playing a few nights a week for a few hours as my child has been home for school holidays.

 

So months? C'mon! Months? If anyone should get instant gear, it should be ops people because you know what?! That content is HARD. That takes skill to get the reward. PVP? Not so much. If PVP were like an OPS, then it would last a few hours and after all of that all 8 would be required to /roll then ONE random highest roll would get the piece of gear. PVPers punished? Bullcrap.

Edited April 16, 2017 by americanaussie

[Soljin]

So you want pvpers to be forced to grind for months on end, instead of you spending 10 seconds to switch gear because you dont understand that you had to get expertise to 2018, which could be accomplished within 2 hours MAXIMUM pre 5,0?

 

That logic................

 

Expertise has nothing to do with gear acquisition speed...that is where you seem to be missing something.

 

If expertise was still in the game that gear would take just as long to get....Except you would then have a gear set that took just as long to get but sucked in PvE...

 

I'm not seeing an upside here.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Soljin

[americanaussie]

Expertise (AKA PvP specific) gear was originally built to add a grind level to gearing...It never actually served a function that could not be done in a single gear system via bolster...

 

PvP actually created a gear imbalance in world PvP and made it so that random passers by could not participate unless they had full PvP gear.

 

Expertise was a horrible system and needs to stay gone... People that want expertise back in my experience only PvP and think that it is someone related to them getting PvP balance and easier gear acquisition....that is not the case.

 

A single gear system allows people to change play styles and experience all ranges of content seamlessly minus maybe switch up two pieces to up your accuracy for high end content (still a single gear system).

 

Bolster is the best way to manage WZ gear deficit and all they have to do is raise bolster to top tier gear levels to fic gear deficit across all WZs...

 

Make no mistake they lowered bolster to create a gear deficit on purpose because Bioware saw this as an opportunity to bring the gear grind motivation to PvP. The current gear deficit complaint from PvPers was created by Bioware on purpose...Straight up.

 

If they went back to Expertise I would stop participating in high end PvP again....and right now since PvP is garbage that means I don't really play anymore...

 

At least with a single gear system I was able to change play styles and once I have higher tier gear I may begin to PvP again since I will no longer be at a disadvantage...

 

After participating in PvP since Beta I refuse to once again take a beating through a massive gear grind to get back to ground zero in PvP...

 

Expertise would have made sure I never PvPed again...Glad its gone.

 

Yep. All I know is this. I'd think...oooh let's try out some pvp. Or do pvp for conquest. Or whatever. Ooh, better add in my +41 expertise crystal cause...ya know, i've just queued in normal pve gear. Get into pvp, sorry you don't have enough expertise warning would flash. If I took out the crystal then I didn't get the warning. I still don't know/understand what that was about. Yes, I had a full set of level 50 pvp gear on my mara when I logged in on her last year. (haha!) I would never carry it around, then I'd queue and forget it *facepalm* it was a pain. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it now.