Carnage/Combat pvp, whats the best stats?

[NogueiraA]

So, what stats should we be focusing? 10% alacrity and rest crit rating? All power? Full crit with 0 alacrity?

[teclado]

I've messed around with a no alacrity setup. Without a channeled Ravage, that seems slightly more viable. The only problem is that I'm pretty sure I was hitting the Crit DR pretty hard.

 

I've heard somebody recommend an extremely high alacrity setup (enough to get 4 abilities into a 3 second Frenzy window). Looks like that will require 1200+ alac (before bolster), so I didn't try it because I didn't have that many alac enhancements / implants and I didn't feel like buying a bunch of alac augments.

 

I'm probably going to settle somewhere between those two...still trying to figure out exactly how much alac.

[shyroman]

Yeah I play with high alacrity, enough to hit around 17% alacrity (that's the least amount I've been able to use while getting 4 abilities under precision with zen up reliably) and I have great success with it. I must note though, the 1200 alacrity is after bolster and with the double stance (to get 6% passive alacrity), I don't think I was ever clear about that. Clipping dispatch and twin saber throw to have it hit the target the instant after activating precision does take some practice however. It's pretty much the same thing I do for pve (except less accuracy) because getting an extra ability into precision does increase burst while also increasing sustained.

[Troelsen]

Wait, 4 abilities in a Ferocity window? Do you mean with or without Berserk? I have around 10% alacrity and can get 3 abilities into Ferocity without Berserk. Edited January 13, 2017 by Troelsen
Derr, that was only 3

[shyroman]

Wait, 4 abilities in a Ferocity window? Do you mean with or without Berserk? I have around 10% alacrity and can get 3 abilities into Ferocity without Berserk.

 

With berserk. It takes quite a bit of alacrity to manage to get 4 abilities into it. Vicious throw/ dual saber throw first (to clip), and gore/massacre last (those 2 hit instantly unlike the rest of the abilities). Through all of my testing, 17% seems like a pretty good number to be able to fit in a 4th reliably under berserk.

[Coldsunrise]

With berserk. It takes quite a bit of alacrity to manage to get 4 abilities into it. Vicious throw/ dual saber throw first (to clip), and gore/massacre last (those 2 hit instantly unlike the rest of the abilities). Through all of my testing, 17% seems like a pretty good number to be able to fit in a 4th reliably under berserk.

 

How much crit and surge do you have (%)?

 

I'm not too sure about stacking so much alacrity - given all the knockbacks and stuns. I would like to test it tho and see how it feels. Atm i'm running with 106% acc 7.15% alacrity and 46.53% crit and 72.80% surge, and force bonus damage on 3776. So I wonder if reducing crit and surge and stacking alacrity would actually increase dps (pvp only)

Thanks

[Troelsen]

How much crit and surge do you have (%)?

 

I'm not too sure about stacking so much alacrity - given all the knockbacks and stuns. I would like to test it tho and see how it feels. Atm i'm running with 106% acc 7.15% alacrity and 46.53% crit and 72.80% surge, and force bonus damage on 3776. So I wonder if reducing crit and surge and stacking alacrity would actually increase dps (pvp only)

Thanks

 

I'm finding it better to prioritize crit over alacrity. There are a lot of tools to maintain a high uptime, but when you do get kited, those moments of higher burst win out over faster cooldowns and GCD. I like some alacrity for giving the enemy a smaller window to react to my burst window, but those huuge crits can make a difference when uptime isn't optimal.

[shyroman]

How much crit and surge do you have (%)?

 

I'm not too sure about stacking so much alacrity - given all the knockbacks and stuns. I would like to test it tho and see how it feels. Atm i'm running with 106% acc 7.15% alacrity and 46.53% crit and 72.80% surge, and force bonus damage on 3776. So I wonder if reducing crit and surge and stacking alacrity would actually increase dps (pvp only)

Thanks

 

Sorry for the late response, all of these stats are bolstered btw. My accuracy is 107.04% (can't be bothered to change all of my pve gear every time, I just change a few enhancements), 17.31% alacrity, 45.89% crit, 73.44% surge, and 3494 bonus force damage. So the only main change is a difference of 282 bonus damage for 10% alacrity. I much prefer the alacrity to the bonus damage. If you're running power or mastery augments, that's where the difference comes from since that's the only slot (outside of crystals) where power/mastery will take away the tertiary stat pool.

Edited January 19, 2017 by shyroman

[Ruhun]

I'm playing around with 995 alacrity (about 1100 woth bolster, used to be 1250 or so in 5.0) and 72.5 crit. Trying to replace my alac with crit and power to see how it goes.

[shyroman]

With the fix to the double stance as well as the nerf to bolster, it really isn't as practical to get up as high of alacrity needed to get up to 17%, even in full 242 gear, you'd be sacrificing a lot of crit to get there (doable though). In anything less, and especially with just what you get from bolster, the amount of crit sacrificed is simply too much now. I haven't experimented with how much alacrity is best now, but i don't see it being as good anymore with the nerfs.

[XxHazenxX]

I'm torn between crit and alacrity augments... I'm thinking about just splitting half crit and half alacrity because I don't know what else to do lol. People have been telling me to go for full mastery augments since 5.0, but that doesn't seem very beneficial.

[FiLaBugh]

With the fix to the double stance as well as the nerf to bolster, it really isn't as practical to get up as high of alacrity needed to get up to 17%, even in full 242 gear, you'd be sacrificing a lot of crit to get there (doable though). In anything less, and especially with just what you get from bolster, the amount of crit sacrificed is simply too much now. I haven't experimented with how much alacrity is best now, but i don't see it being as good anymore with the nerfs.

 

Mate you dont need 17% alacracy to hit 4 ability inside precision..something like 1100 point (~13%) in alacracy and its ok..tho i agree it will be hard for someone not experienced with the spec.. i only can tell 1 advice too people i use debelitation/overwhelm. with that and gore/lance "net" i rarely got kite..tho i agree its an easy spec to shut down sometimes..

[shyroman]

Mate you dont need 17% alacracy to hit 4 ability inside precision..something like 1100 point (~13%) in alacracy and its ok..tho i agree it will be hard for someone not experienced with the spec.. i only can tell 1 advice too people i use debelitation/overwhelm. with that and gore/lance "net" i rarely got kite..tho i agree its an easy spec to shut down sometimes..

 

With perfectly precise timing every single time, yes it is possible to pull it off with that little alacrity, but I've found in order to do it consistently with ability lag/not perfect fps and knowing that my timing will be a couple tenths of a second difference since I'm not perfect (nobody is), a higher alacrity is very helpful. I've had no trouble getting that though once I got rid of all my accuracy that I had in my pve gear.

[jedcjedcjedc]

With perfectly precise timing every single time, yes it is possible to pull it off with that little alacrity, but I've found in order to do it consistently with ability lag/not perfect fps and knowing that my timing will be a couple tenths of a second difference since I'm not perfect (nobody is), a higher alacrity is very helpful. I've had no trouble getting that though once I got rid of all my accuracy that I had in my pve gear.

 

do you have to start from a distance for saber throw to get the effect of it? because I use saber throw and then activate my window, but I always get the feeling if I'm too close it hits before the window activates.

[shyroman]

do you have to start from a distance for saber throw to get the effect of it? because I use saber throw and then activate my window, but I always get the feeling if I'm too close it hits before the window activates.

 

When looking back at logs, I find that vicious throw has a travel time of .5-.7 seconds depending on distance. It's a bit of a difference but not too much.

[jedcjedcjedc]

When looking back at logs, I find that vicious throw has a travel time of .5-.7 seconds depending on distance. It's a bit of a difference but not too much.

 

but if you activate before the gcd finishes you cant use the next ability yet so aren't you losing out on time either way?

[shyroman]

but if you activate before the gcd finishes you cant use the next ability yet so aren't you losing out on time either way?

 

Because with enough alacrity (and with berserk up), you can hit a 4th ability a couple tenths of a second before the ferocity window ends.

 

http://imgur.com/a/We0pd Nestle does a really good job at this so I'm going to use his parse. I've yellow highlighted the ability activations to show the 4 abilities and ferocity and when they were activated. I've cyan highlighted when the ferocity effect begins compared to when vicious throw hits, the same effect can happen with dual saber throw. The massacre at the end, although it hits after ferocity ends, because it was activated before ferocity ended, it still retains that buff, that effect only applies to massacre and gore (can use gore at the same point as massacre in this parse and it would work). So the highest burst combo you can do is

 

Vicious throw, ferocity just before vicious throw hits, ravage, devastating blast, gore.

 

Some people complain about the vulnerability of that being interrupted, which may be the case in ranked, but it barely happens in regs unless I leap at a target and immediately do the combo which is just asking for it.

[jedcjedcjedc]

I think I have about 7% alacrity because I'm using piecies from my merc to gear atm. How would you recommend gearing as i doubt 242's would reach anywhere near those levels of alacrity for a mara?

[shyroman]

I think I have about 7% alacrity because I'm using piecies from my merc to gear atm. How would you recommend gearing as i doubt 242's would reach anywhere near those levels of alacrity for a mara?

 

When bolstered, I have 17.42% alacrity (1691), 41.7% crit (1806), and 104.45% accuracy (252). Gear average is around 230 so I get slightly bolstered but not by much. I use the accuracy stim as I do prefer some accuracy for pvp, and it gives some more crit. I don't know how much of a difference it makes with the mastery stim.

[xChAoTiXx]

Well I dont really agree with either of the ggiven response... (however, its basically peraonal preference). Id suggest running with neither a high or no alacrity build.

 

I think the weakest aspect of carnage is its being countered and stuff... In my opinion fitting in 4 abilities in a ferocity (gore) window is way to vulnerable in pvp, but fitting in only 2 is not really decent either. so i always try to get in 3 abilities (Best case: Vicious throw clipped - devestating blast - gore)... This is sth that i feel eas to pull of and i get along great with it in both regs and ranked... Without more than the spec based alacrity (3%) this is possible in normal cases and eas to pull off with berserk - so what id reccomend is to get a little bit of alacrity as this will make you easy in pulling this off even without berserk however you dont waste stats... moreover you highly benefit from the high burst numbers more than from alacrity in pvp basically in every class.. (if you say sth else it might be due to one of the following reasons: you have master human speed and always perfect lateny, you only q with mates and usually end up against bad enemies, you only care for your dps at the end and not for how well you did in the match)... getting the following build (i use it) will make you viable in regs and ranked... it is boosting your burst awesomely and reducing your vulnerability to be countered (for some gameplay tips feel free to pm me or contact me in game (TRE - Ab'yss Razer anD Exfiltrate most of the time)

 

So I gear like this:

Use 208 purple gear until you get 230 purple or higher and 228 augments!

 

Highest priority - for the armorings and for the priority on items you choose - is getting a piece of gear in every slot and 2nd highest is getting set piece (192 set piece would do better than 242 no set piece)

 

Do never take Accuracy in PvP - this is a mistake pvers do as for them its the highest priority stat... dont do it... why? players only have a 5% chance to defend (not true for sorc, pt, op, etc) so one might think 105% accuracy is best... However most of your misses in pvp are due to specific dcds or ccs... and then your accuracy wont help you out... so you actually try to avoid these dcds (for example attack a force shrouding assassin with white damage or waiting out a few seconds when an agents pops evasion before hitting a white attack)...anyway you want to buff the attacks you do hit with... so no accuracy - it has always been like that and especially in 5.0 as bolster will bring your accuracy up anyway...

 

For mods never choose mods with a letter (A/B).... only unlettered ones or the "X-Lettered" (old pvp gear - X stands for expertise) and only choose power ones (no defence rating - i see this way too often)

 

Crystals go for Mastery (old pvp crystals will do)

 

Relics are stil Serendipitious Assault and Focused Retribution

 

Now i have covered the less interesting stuff and im moving on to Enhancements and Augments (i do count Ear and Implants as Enhancements in that case)

 

Go with full crit enhancements till the point you hit 70-71% multiplier (aroumd the time you get full 230) then go for all crit but 1 alacdity

 

Augments i go for 12 Mastery and 2 Alacrity, based on personal preference you can do 12 power and 2 alacrity as well... i dont know maybe this is placebo as the mathematical difference is really not to be mentioned... but somehow i feel stronger with 12 Mastery than i do with 12 Power... Feel free to try both...

 

Domt forget to take the 4 Rage building utility in carnage pvp... its worth it (but only in carnage (

 

if you have questioms or opinions pls respond an rate my build... always into some nice conversation

[Ottoattack]

I know this thread is a bit outdated, but I have been using full power build. While clipping does work, I personally feel it is way too gimmicky to be reliable in PvP. I find that the more damage you can front load onto devastating blast the better. When lance and dispatch critic in a precision window, dealing 60K dps in 4.5 sec is devastating.

 

The debate I have is should I invest in accuracy or not, since DB is a guaranteed hit.

[Marstrike]

I would agree with Ottoattack.

 

While alacrity around 1500~ is needed for optimal DPS against dummy's and operation bosses it sort of loses it's "value" a bit in PvP. I've experimented with various levels of alacrity across all 3 of the spec's and found that in PvP it's best to leave it simple. Hit the crit DR however way you wish and then go all power.

 

The reason alacrity loses it's value in a PvP environment is because you are not always on target and constantly pushing out APM (attacks per min). Therefor there is no need to actively build stats which maximise your APM potential. In PvP whenever you hit, you want to hit as hard as possible. Personally, i would recommend gearing for around 1700-1800~ crit (to hit the DR) and then go power.

 

Combat is much easier and more effective in reg's but against experienced players in ranked it can be quite tough. I would recommend running ranked in Concentration with the current meta. If you run combat, I would be happy with fitting 2-3 inside the window.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Marstrike