Is this game an MMO or a single player online rpg?

[RocketeerRaccoon]

The game isn't so much of an RPG but it's still an MMO such as auction house trading, group pvp matches and doing instances with groups. To be honest games like this and WoW have more in the way of single player, the biggest difference is that SWTOR has a more character driven single player storyline while WoW doesn't really have such a thing.

[jstankaroslo]

Nope, I think you're confused, I just want to know what this game is so I can come to a decision whether or not to continue paying a sub

 

ok, ITS AN MMO!

 

you got you answer, now sub or un-sub or do whatever u want.

[Andryah]

The game isn't so much of an RPG but it's still an MMO such as auction house trading, group pvp matches and doing instances with groups. To be honest games like this and WoW have more in the way of single player, the biggest difference is that SWTOR has a more character driven single player storyline while WoW doesn't really have such a thing.

 

^^ Accurate and fair assessment.

 

And RPG aspects of an MMO is almost always what the player makes of it..... though I would say that SWTORs story arcs provides a pretty good series of bread crumbing for the RP aspects of play compared to competitors.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Andryah

[mikebevo]

though I would say that SWTORs story arcs provides a pretty good series of bread crumbing for the RP aspects of play compared to competitors.

I agree, but would add at the expense of the MMO side of the equation.

 

If you are blaming player for this not being a MMO, please explain to me how I am at fault for no new operations for over 2 years. I played the operations multiple nights per week since they were released, is it my fault they are old and stale to me and my guild now? So I am not enhancing the MMO element of the game because, I find old content old? What I wasn't suppose to play it when it was released so I could play it now?

Edited January 8, 2017 by mikebevo

[Andryah]

I agree, but would add at the expense of the MMO side of the equation.

 

If you are blaming player for this not being a MMO, please explain to me how I am at fault for no new operations for over 2 years. I played the operations multiple nights per week since they were released, is it my fault they are old and stale to me and my guild now? So I am not enhancing the MMO element of the game because, I find old content old? What I wasn't suppose to play it when it was released so I could play it now?

 

IF... IF you are going to lock the definition of "MMO" to new raid content.. you are indeed being selectively subjective in your view point.

 

While it is true that most MMOs have raid content.. not all do.. and yet they remain MMOs.

 

While it is true that there have been no new OPs in more then two years.. all older OPs remain in game.. none have been removed.

 

Your choosing to declare MMO = specific new group content you personally want .. is an invalid definition. You are free to hold on to it if you like.. but it makes no sense and does not scan in any objective manner.

 

I'm completely fine with players objecting and even complaining about no new OPs content in game. That's fair.. and for some players it's a deal breaker in an MMO. But raid content, or absence of it, does not define what is/is-not an MMO. It is simply one parameter common to MMO content.. but by no means a required parameter to qualify as an MMO in the market. It may however be an important parameter for any given player in their choice to play or not play an MMO.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Andryah

[DrewFromPhilly]

It is not at all subjective to say that MMOs are inherently social games by design, because they are. That is the entire point of the games in this genre - and to suggest that an expectation of group content from an MMO is somehow wrong? That's 100% bollocks.

 

It is not the fault of the playerbase that BioWare choose to make an MMO. If they wanted to make another single-player story like Mass Effect or Dragon Age then they should have created KOTOR 3 - but they didn't. They choose to make an MMO, and then they also choose to go two years without releasing group content and are somehow surprised that didn't go over well? Surprised enough to publicly declare that 2017 is the official "group content year" even.

 

MMOs live or die with the content they release, as players will inevitably beat and become bored with everything you release. There has to constantly be something in the pipeline, or players won't be encouraged to stay subscribed indefinitely or stick around long enough to spend money in a cash shop. Additionally, SWTOR was released long into the genre's existence so players will already have established expectations coming into this game - and SWTOR itself had gone through several expansions which included operations and other group content. Then, out of nowhere, they decided to go two years with their primary focus shifted into single-player chapters with no real interaction with other players. It doesn't make any sense, and it certainly raises valid questions about what exactly the focus of this game is now and where it is going. To attack players for raising these issues and questioning their subscription is, frankly, pretty ridiculous and asinine.

Edited January 8, 2017 by DrewFromPhilly

[mikebevo]

IF... IF you are going to lock the definition of "MMO" to new raid content.. you are indeed being selectively subjective in your view point. .

Please quote where I wrote that. I'll wait.... Oh you went to the foxnews school of debate, make up what the other person is saying then treat you make believe as fact.

 

Play KOTET chapters and tell me how me player characters you see? Last couple expansions could have easily been a RPG. You can count old operations if you want, but I am solely talking about the direction this game is going.

 

I use to defend this game, but even I can see TOR now circling the drain.

Edited January 8, 2017 by mikebevo

[DarthDymond]

"It's not an MMO unless it regularly releases new group content" is not a universal definition of an MMO.

 

If that is your definition, then fine - but don't be surprised when other people look at a game that has dozens of group-play options in it and say "yeah, this is an MMO" even if it's not frequently releasing new content of that sort.

Edited January 8, 2017 by DarthDymond

[mikebevo]

"It's not an MMO if it NEVER releases new group content".

Fixed to what I'm saying since people's white hats are ruining their reading ability. Edited January 8, 2017 by mikebevo

[eriksarcasm]

Fixed to what I'm saying since people's white hats are ruining their reading ability.

 

Uprisings aren't group content?

[mikebevo]

Uprisings aren't group content?

It is waste of time.

[eriksarcasm]

It is waste of time.

 

That's just your opinion, though, on the quality of the content. Doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact, group only content. I think you're being very subjective on the definition of "MMO" but that's just my opinion.

[Elyxin]

Well, I guess I'd classify it as a story driven MMO. Problem is, that is a big range. I think that on release (Vanilla) and up through Revan, it really was a balanced, story driven MMO. It had a primary storyline for each class, main story for each planet, and the VO and character interaction put the story at the front. But it was just one aspect of the game. It still felt in all ways like an MMO.

 

The last 2 releases really pushed it into the extreme story area, with the leftover MMO parts trailing along in the rear so you couldn't say it "wasn't" an MMO...but the last few releases were so much story you'd be hard put to say anything else about it. you can pull out smaller technical aspects to say "nah, it's still an MMO" But it certainly doesn't feel like one. most the MMO part isn't around when you do the last 2 releases...it's all old material. They could have literally pulled KotFE and KotET out of the game, and made a separate game for those...and you would still have the essential MMO left in SWTOR.

 

So While I still say it's an "MMO", it's with a really weak emphasis. and I think that impacts many players. I love the story, but I was fine with how they did the story back in vanilla. I never once felt like i wasn't in an MMO in Vanilla...now I have a hard time believing I'm even online when I'm playing the KotFE/KotET material.

[mikebevo]

That's just your opinion, though, on the quality of the content. Doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact, group only content. I think you're being very subjective on the definition of "MMO" but that's just my opinion.

It is like all their dumbing down of group content over the past couple years. Group content should keep you engaged. This has no engagement or social value. No challenge on progression, nothing to keep guild engaged. Yes it is group content, but it does nothing to inspire playing game after you play it the first time. Edited January 9, 2017 by mikebevo

[DarthDymond]

It is like all their dumbing down of group content over the past couple years. Group content should keep you engaged. This has no engagement or social value. No challenge on progression, nothing to keep guild engaged. Yes it is group content, but it does nothing to inspire playing game after you play it the first time.

So... that edit of yours really should have been "It's not an MMO if it NEVER releases new group content that I like" then?

 

Whatever - I stand by my original point whether you use "regularly" or "never":

"It's not an MMO if it never releases new group content" is not a universal definition of an MMO.

 

If that is your definition, then fine - but don't be surprised when other people look at a game that has dozens of group-play options already existing in it and say "yeah, this is an MMO" even if it's not releasing any new content of that sort.

 

There's no governing authority on MMOs that validates one definition over another - so yours is just as valid as any other, I suppose - but it really seems like some people are conflating "I don't think this MMO is very good" with "this isn't an MMO."

Edited January 9, 2017 by DarthDymond

[eriksarcasm]

It is like all their dumbing down of group content over the past couple years. Group content should keep you engaged. This has no engagement or social value. No challenge on progression, nothing to keep guild engaged. Yes it is group content, but it does nothing to inspire playing game after you play it the first time.

 

I agree they're not very good in story mode. I did a couple the other night and said "that's it?"

 

Regardless, the quality of the content is not in question here; it's the existence of said content. It exists; therefore, Bioware has in fact released new group content. Hence, by the standards you defined, it is in fact an MMORPG. Whether it's a GOOD MMORPG is another topic for many, many other threads.

 

This is a fun thread. Not only did I find myself agreeing with people I normally disagree with, it's also the first time I've been (indirectly) accused of white knighting!

[Muljo_Stpho]

Which single player online RPGs have you played that compared to Swtor?

 

Outside of Diablo 3, what non-MMOs force you to connect online to play single player?

... Xenoblade on Wii U, I suppose. I don't know if it actually forces you to be online but it does connect for some random side feature.

Anything else?

 

There's soloable stuff in swtor and that has definitely always been a selling point of swtor over a more traditional MMO (although I guess others have their share of soloable stuff too?) But I'm not really seeing "online single player" as its own standalone gaming genre.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Muljo_Stpho

[mikebevo]

So... that edit of yours really should have been "It's not an MMO if it NEVER releases new group content that I like" then? [/Quote] I wrote it right the first time, since the only group content you can progress with and that can hold attention is operations and there have been no operations for 2 years and that is forever in terms of a MMO or a RPG.

 

There's no governing authority on MMOs that validates one definition over another - so yours is just as valid as any other, I suppose - but it really seems like some people are conflating "I don't think this MMO is very good" with "this isn't an MMO."

I once thought this was a very good MMO. That was before the dark times, before the tactical FPs, Solo FPs, dumbing down of planet quest, heroics. Back when your character could die from something other than falling down elevator shafts without door or ledges without catwalks.

 

Regardless, the quality of the content is not in question here; it's the existence of said content. It exists; therefore, Bioware has in fact released new group content. Hence, by the standards you defined, it is in fact an MMORPG. Whether it's a GOOD MMORPG is another topic for many, many other threads.

I'll agree it was a MMO and I will even say it was once a good MMO. Now it is a online RPG to me. Come out with new operations and quit trying to sell us on the same stale content and I may change my mind.

 

I wasn't always like this, I use to defend content as content even if I didn't like it, but then they even dumbed down the old content that I could still stand.

Edited January 9, 2017 by mikebevo

[Kurfer]

I don't care what it's considered, as long as I enjoy playing it then you can call it anything you want.

 

I only can seem to get along with people IRL, I am not the online friendly kinda person so I am perfectly fine with this being a multiplayer RPG.

[Theeko]

Imo, its digging its own grave in every aspect of the game

 

rarity of items being destroyed - IE: Korrealis mounts from 1.2

neglect of pvp exploits

neglect of content

neglect of everything tbh.

 

ESO has had major updates and probably is the only MMO with the best updates as of late imo

[DarthDymond]

I once thought this was a very good MMO. That was before the dark times, before the tactical FPs, Solo FPs, dumbing down of planet quest, heroics. Back when your character could die from something other than falling down elevator shafts without door or ledges without catwalks.

Alright, this made me lol a bit - nice one.

So... that edit of yours really should have been "It's not an MMO if it NEVER releases new group content that I like" then?

I wrote it right the first time, since the only group content you can progress with and that can hold attention is operations and there have been no operations for 2 years and that is forever in terms of a MMO or a RPG.

[...]

Now it is a online RPG to me. Come out with new operations and quit trying to sell us on the same stale content and I may change my mind.

But if you're taking this stance here, that Ops are the only content that 'counts' as group content sufficient to make the game an MMO, then how was Andryah "making up" what your position was here?:

IF... IF you are going to lock the definition of "MMO" to new raid content.. you are indeed being selectively subjective in your view point.

Please quote where I wrote that. I'll wait.... Oh you went to the foxnews school of debate, make up what the other person is saying then treat you make believe as fact.

[Jedi_riches]

Uprisings aren't group content?

 

Apparently not, many players (well on the forums anyway) seem to be of the opinion that group content = raids only, not Uprisings or flashpoints.

 

Personally I would prefer 3-4 decent flashpoints over a single operation anyday much easier to gain entry (smaller groups required plus not such high gear requirements) and won't tie people up for ages on end since its easier to group for a flashpoint if you have families etc.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Jedi_riches

[mikebevo]

But if you're taking this stance here, that Ops are the only content that 'counts' as group content sufficient to make the game an MMO, then how was Andryah "making up" what your position was here?:

Sorry keep forgetting sarcasm does not translate to internet. Especially forums.

[Lionflash]

8 pages arguing over semantics.

 

Back in my day we used to just play games, not deconstruct the different schools of thought on the genre.

[CrazyCT]

Sorry keep forgetting sarcasm does not translate to internet. Especially forums.

 

I've taken to putting {} round any sarcastic text. I still have to explain half the time, but it helps with a few forum regulars.

e.g. {I really value your input}