OMG so many mercs in the WZs!

[Dalthanar]

Consistently being top DPS in an 8v8 Reg WZ doesn’t make you OP, if you are concentrating too much on how much damage you are putting out instead of objectives you should really be playing a Mara.

 

Now if the Merc could run to a node and cap it whilst ignoring a barrage of damage for several players directly targeting him. Or run into a 3 v 1 and win every time (I can 2 v 1 in the right situation against the right type of player on a couple of classes) then that would be OP.

 

Also being the most played class doesn’t make that class OP, that’s just silly and in my limited experience Sorcs are still the most played class.

 

I got pulled up by someone on my previous post about taking excessive healing away from an Arsenal Merc. I think that this should be a small tweak and that DPS Sorcs and Op’s (and their rep counterparts) are fine with their level of healing as they lack some of the other benefits that a Merc has. *sigh* haters gonna hate right 

[Cretinus]

Like before 5.0, one still sees 3-5 juggtards and 2-6 sorciots per WZ and most of them are EXTREMELY bad.

The difference to pre 5.0 is that these fellows are no longer carried by their classes, in particular against mercs.

And this is why they've started to come to the forums in mass, to complain that there is 1 merc in every WZ, sometimes even 2, and that these mercs are no longer freekills.

 

This is ridiculous. And hilarious.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Cretinus

[TBDNicodemus]

Consistently being top DPS in an 8v8 Reg WZ doesn’t make you OP, if you are concentrating too much on how much damage you are putting out instead of objectives you should really be playing a Mara.

 

Now if the Merc could run to a node and cap it whilst ignoring a barrage of damage for several players directly targeting him. Or run into a 3 v 1 and win every time (I can 2 v 1 in the right situation against the right type of player on a couple of classes) then that would be OP.

 

Also being the most played class doesn’t make that class OP, that’s just silly and in my limited experience Sorcs are still the most played class.

 

I got pulled up by someone on my previous post about taking excessive healing away from an Arsenal Merc. I think that this should be a small tweak and that DPS Sorcs and Op’s (and their rep counterparts) are fine with their level of healing as they lack some of the other benefits that a Merc has. *sigh* haters gonna hate right 

 

Its not hate... its finding common ground... you have a group of players that say merc is cancers, and then you have a group of players that is saying its fine nerds L2P.

 

When both are extreme... sure mercs have 3 heal to fulls, self heals, range, burst, escapes/kiting, in 4.0 the merc needed 1 just 1 extra anti focus button (and the black flip utility as just part of their kit), they got the reflect heal, which is great, but the reactive shield heal, and the adrenal steroid wasn't needed at all. There should be a change that only would bring mercs back into line.

 

The goal should be to find what the community agrees as to strong and suggest it as a fix, because Bioware will nerf and they nerf hard. Then merc won't be as much fun again.

 

Personally the heal on reactive shield should go to powertechs/vanguards, and give mercs a snare or root on scan. That would go a long ways. another idea is remove the adrenal steroid from mercs giving that same idea as a replacment

[TBDNicodemus]

You had -A- warzone that had a lot of mercs in it, and your team was awful and you lost. Obviously this is proof that mercs are ruining pvp in 8v8s! omg nerf mercs!

 

I can show you a match yesterday where the wz had 7 jugg/guards, obviously the match had a lot of that class in it. That doesn't prove **** dude. it proves that sometimes one class can get dumped into a wz while another you might not see one.

 

Again, one match taken as proof that mercs need nerfed. Just BS. Glad Bioware actually doesn't take the hyperbolic crap people write seriously here.

 

You want to prove mercs are a plague in 8v8s? Then screenshot 5-10 matches in a row, and bring them here. Do it the next day.

 

Problem is, people are such liars they will take screenshots over a weeks time, and show only the ones that they can bend to prove their case.

 

Keep on crying about mercs being OP in 8v8s. They aint.

 

Your missing or avoiding my point. I mentioned A match because it perfectly summoned up my opinion on merc/commando, if people that come on the threads are the minority and the majority of people on threads are talking about how the population of mercs in pvp has increased and how devastating their current kit is, your logic about screen shot or id didn't happen becomes flawed, call me a liar but 10 to your 1 doesn't make us all liars.

 

pretending mercs aren't over tuned for their role doesn't make it not true... it makes the nerf a disaster when bioware steps in to do it. merc is a kite and ranged dps class... atm they can face tank for more damage then a dps jug the melee (wrecking ball of pvp), I know because I've done it. again call me a liar but I'm not the only one saying that.

[Dalthanar]

merc is a kite and ranged dps class... atm they can face tank for more damage then a dps jug the melee (wrecking ball of pvp), I know because I've done it. again call me a liar but I'm not the only one saying that.

 

I would say that a DPS Jugg can take more than a Merc and survive longer and that your perception is off because the Merc can avoid AOE placement that the Jugg must stand in and can employ escape abilities, heal up and go back in with much less downtime. I am only going by my experience though and will differ my opinion to any valid evidence provided to the contrary.

[Jherad]

As I'm on the verge of giving up the CXP grind anyway, part of me wouldn't mind reverting back to 4.0 merc/mandos just to see the dawning realisation on the faces of some of these guys that the reason they are getting roflcoptered by mercs now is the same reason they were getting flattened back then.

 

It may be that at the high end of play, mercs are overtuned - but so far the top ranked ratings don't seem to be showing that. And it's hard to take complaints seriously from people who were struggling to break 2k dps in 4.x.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Jherad

[Lhancelot]

As I'm on the verge of giving up the CXP grind anyway, part of me wouldn't mind reverting back to 4.0 merc/mandos just to see the dawning realisation on the faces of some of these guys that the reason they are getting roflcoptered by mercs now is the same reason they were getting flattened back then.

 

It may be that at the high end of play, mercs are overtuned - but so far the top ranked ratings don't seem to be showing that. And it's hard to take complaints seriously from people who were struggling to break 2k dps in 4.x.

 

It is a significant grind, especially when players on this game have been conditioned and adapted to a fairly easy style of leveling with regards to pvp and gearing for pvp.

 

It reminds me of EQ1 where it takes years of devotion to get BiS items. You understand going in it's a grind. On EQ1 you are already mentally aware and understand the commitment to gearing though, whereas here we didn't really sign up for that.

 

I suspect BW will adjust it, because there's just way too many complaints about the grind, and the lack of drops from their boxes.

 

As for mercs being so OP'd and plentiful, I still do not see overflowing numbers of mercs and I still have yet to see a crew of mercs wrecking everyone.

 

I see more juggs/guardians and sents/marauders than I see mercs in regs 8v8 on The Ebon Hawk. Maybe I just play when the plague of mercs are not on?

 

I realize I like to poke the fire ant hill with the stick here on the forums, but I honestly am not seeing this scourge of merc power I read about on the forums. I really don't.

[Andrew_Past]

I would say that a DPS Jugg can take more than a Merc and survive longer and that your perception is off because the Merc can avoid AOE placement that the Jugg must stand in and can employ escape abilities, heal up and go back in with much less downtime. I am only going by my experience though and will differ my opinion to any valid evidence provided to the contrary.

 

This just simply isn't true. DPS Guardians are focused through all of their DCDs and die much faster than Commandos do. If you focus a Commando in a similar fashion, you get punished, hard. Just look at yolo arenas. There's a reason why Guardians are focused first most games while Commandos are the last choice for focus target. Guardians can't handle the pressure nearly as well as Commandos atm.

[Lhancelot]

Just look at yolo arenas.

 

This is the problem.

 

The biggest whine threads created have been because of what mercs do in yolos. Mercs are not wrecking regs 8v8s, at least I personally have not seen it.

 

The funny thing is, in yolos for YEARS mercs could never partake because they had ZERO dcds to enable them to last more than 3 secs when they got tunneled.

 

Obviously if this is the problem in yolos for mercs, then the devs will adjust it. if they have too many dcds, they will get nerfed.

 

The whining about mercs in regs is purely hyperbolic BS created by bads or biased melee that hate the fact they can't steamroll mercs anymore.

[QuiveringPotato]

This is the problem.

 

The biggest whine threads created have been because of what mercs do in yolos. Mercs are not wrecking regs 8v8s, at least I personally have not seen it.

 

The funny thing is, in yolos for YEARS mercs could never partake because they had ZERO dcds to enable them to last more than 3 secs when they got tunneled.

 

Obviously if this is the problem in yolos for mercs, then the devs will adjust it. if they have too many dcds, they will get nerfed.

 

The whining about mercs in regs is purely hyperbolic BS created by bads or biased melee that hate the fact they can't steamroll mercs anymore.

 

Funny, because all the mercs QQing in 4.0 was because of yolos, too.

[Lhancelot]

Funny, because all the mercs QQing in 4.0 was because of yolos, too.

 

It is humorous. It's like mercs went the exact opposite direction regarding yolos when you compare them from 4.0 to 5.0.

[Andrew_Past]

This is the problem.

 

The biggest whine threads created have been because of what mercs do in yolos. Mercs are not wrecking regs 8v8s, at least I personally have not seen it.

 

The funny thing is, in yolos for YEARS mercs could never partake because they had ZERO dcds to enable them to last more than 3 secs when they got tunneled.

 

Obviously if this is the problem in yolos for mercs, then the devs will adjust it. if they have too many dcds, they will get nerfed.

 

The whining about mercs in regs is purely hyperbolic BS created by bads or biased melee that hate the fact they can't steamroll mercs anymore.

They're still stronger than probably any other class in regs. Admittedly not as strong, but still stronger than the competition nonetheless. In arenas their DCDs are so strong because they have 3 highly effective anti-focus tools, one of which directly punishes focus fire. In regs, anti-focus DCDs (and especially healing variants) lose value for a couple reasons. One, is due to the fact that focus fire really isn't prevalent in regs anyways. Two, there's usually healers around, which decreases the value of healing DCDs and increases the value of damage resistance DCDs. Three, there's more space to avoid the mercs while the DCDs are active (In arenas, you need to take down an enemy ASAP, and it is also much more difficult to "just avoid hitting them and LOS" during their DCDs.)

 

Even with all this said, mercs are still sturdier than almost any other DPS spec in regs. I'd also like to point out that one of the anti-focus tools (energy shield with heal talent) that is probably the strongest out of any of them, is also a high damage reduction DCD, which, as I mentioned, increases in value in a healing environment. It is also on a very low CD. Also, knockbacks and mobility DCDs gain more value in regs, which is another boon for mercs.

 

The problem isn't the overall damage that they do. That hasn't changed much. I'm completely fine with mercs being able to burst at range. The problem is the DCD changes make anyone with even a little sense of how to rotate DCDs much, much harder to kill than equivalent specs. This includes both regs and arenas.

 

Edit: I also want to state that I don't want to see mercs nerfed into the ground, or to a state where they're always the first focus target again. That's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm fine with them having better DCDs than before. But I'm NOT okay with just how massively their DCD toolkit got buffed.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Andrew_Past

[Lhancelot]

They're still stronger than probably any other class in regs. Admittedly not as strong, but still stronger than the competition nonetheless. In arenas their DCDs are so strong because they have 3 highly effective anti-focus tools, one of which directly punishes focus fire. In regs, anti-focus DCDs (and especially healing variants) lose value for a couple reasons. One, is due to the fact that focus fire really isn't prevalent in regs anyways. Two, there's usually healers around, which decreases the value of healing DCDs and increases the value of damage resistance DCDs. Three, there's more space to avoid the mercs while the DCDs are active (In arenas, you need to take down an enemy ASAP, and it is also much more difficult to "just avoid hitting them and LOS" during their DCDs.)

 

Even with all this said, mercs are still sturdier than almost any other DPS spec in regs. I'd also like to point out that one of the anti-focus tools (energy shield with heal talent) that is probably the strongest out of any of them, is also a high damage reduction DCD, which, as I mentioned, increases in value in a healing environment. It is also on a very low CD. Also, knockbacks and mobility DCDs gain more value in regs, which is another boon for mercs.

 

The problem isn't the overall damage that they do. That hasn't changed much. I'm completely fine with mercs being able to burst at range. The problem is the DCD changes make anyone with even a little sense of how to rotate DCDs much, much harder to kill than equivalent specs. This includes both regs and arenas.

 

Edit: I also want to state that I don't want to see mercs nerfed into the ground, or to a state where they're always the first focus target again. That's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm fine with them having better DCDs than before. But I'm NOT okay with just how massively their DCD toolkit got buffed.

 

Reasonable response I can't say anything you wrote is not logical.

 

It's just irking that 99% of the forumquesters here crying about arsenal mercs are really pouring the hyperbole on thicker than molasses.

 

None of them have expressed as complete of an understanding as you did here imo, and that being said I can concede that their dcds are too much particularly in the 4v4 arena styled maps.

 

Arsenal mercs do not need massive removals of all the dcds they got though, and a small subtle adjustment would do fine, just like some of the other classes could really use a subtle buff to improve their survivability in 4v4s.

 

Even with the great dcds mercs got in general, this nice buff really only made arsenal mercs better. The added dcds still did not improve healer mercs much, and IO mercs still suck.

 

This buff was in the right direction for mercs though, just maybe a bit too far to the right and did not address IO or healer merc weaknesses.

[Lalainnia]

Juggernauts have no dr while stunned utility and just general dr utilites that are significant enough. Jugg dcds are pretty much just hp cushions/healing outside of saber ward so just slap trauma on them which if u have a tank in ranked group or solo its easy as ever to keep up.

[Xertasian]

As someone who mains deception and marks.

 

Yep deception without a doubt. It needs to be knocked down a peg. Not much but a peg.

 

deception don't need to be knock down a peg..at the beginning deception spec had 50% crti bonus damage..down to 10%..i get it you probably been soloing baddies and think you is OP..you play against competent people especially in rank..you barely get by on deception spec sins..

 

if anything crit bonus damage should go up to at least 20%..that will put them perfect and also fix the bugs with the class..actually i want the 50% crit bonus damage back.but i know hell have to freeze over before Bioware consider it..

[QuiveringPotato]

deception don't need to be knock down a peg..at the beginning deception spec had 50% crti bonus damage..down to 10%..i get it you probably been soloing baddies and think you is OP..you play against competent people especially in rank..you barely get by on deception spec sins..

 

if anything crit bonus damage should go up to at least 20%..that will put them perfect and also fix the bugs with the class..actually i want the 50% crit bonus damage back.but i know hell have to freeze over before Bioware consider it..

 

He's probably referring to their bugged passives and double-stance bug.Those are OP.

[Raynezazki]

He's probably referring to their bugged passives and double-stance bug.Those are OP.

 

Yep. Exactly what I was referring too. That gets fixed and they're just fine.

[FryyT]

OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stoopicus]

Yep. Exactly what I was referring too. That gets fixed and they're just fine.

 

Hey, it gives you a real reason to use Discharge more

 

yeah, OP. Fun but clearly getting fixed.

[FryyT]

#Buff Operative

[Kaedusz]

One thing is for sure though. Players are so used to seeing mercs die when they are under certain circumstances that when they don't die people are like: *** why is this guy not dead yet!?

Even I was amazed when i played my merc yesterday. Many times, after a long time of nuking people down, kiting, etc, finally 3,4 people focused me down and i was about to die, and then BAM reflective shield, h2f, reinforcements come, still alive and kicking.

 

Sure mercs are op atm(one of the reasons i switched to another main), but there is certainly a lot of ''wow''(not the game) factor involved in percieving exactly how op they are. Things should calm down as time goes when people get used to things.

 

Also i didn't see that many mercs in wzs at 70 yesterday. Only 1 wz there were like 5 mercs including me in our team and i left that wz. The other times there were 1 or 2 per team and most of them were healers, not arsenal. But then again, many times i was the only merc in a wz at 4.0 so there is that.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Kaedusz

[Gabzizzle]

I wish the OP would unsub again. The amount of pointless threads already been made is mind numbing. Especially from a mediocre reg player. You play on a dead server I'm not surprised you hardly see any merc/mandos.

[AlrikFassbauer]

One thing is for sure though. Players are so used to seeing mercs die when they are under certain circumstances that when they don't die people are like: *** why is this guy not dead yeat!?

Even I was amazed when i played my merc yesterday. Many times, after a long time of nuking people down, kiting, etc, finally 3,4 people focused me down and i was about to die, and then BAM reflective shield, h2f, reinforcements come, still alive and kicking.

 

That's exactly how I played my 4.0 Sage, then.

Against better players I still melted very quickly, though.

 

I haven't tried out my Commando yet, I must admit. I hesitate to do so, because I really hate playing an OP class, but I just want to experience it ...

[QuiveringPotato]

I wish the OP would unsub again. The amount of pointless threads already been made is mind numbing. Especially from a mediocre reg player. You play on a dead server I'm not surprised you hardly see any merc/mandos.

 

TEH isn't dead lol

[Jake_Chambers]

OP must have some amazing insight into tor balance, because they've proven the entire pvp community wrong about mercs being op in this post