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Quarterly Producer Letter for Q2 2024 ×

Server War: Light Side Always Wins?

Ylliarus

By Ylliarus
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Ylliarus

Ylliarus

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Dear Bioware and players,

 

On the Progenitor it seems as if the Light Side is the only side that is winning. I have maybe at max 4 or 5 times seen the Dark Side getting to Tier 1 but not half an hour later suddenly the message pops up the Light Side is again victorious. Correction, the Light Side is -always- victorious on my server. Not once did I see the Dark Side win and it is not because I am simply online at the wrong time or the wrong day. I am online on SWTOR for multiple hours per day and each and every single time it is the Light Side that wins.

When playing on a character that has the Light Side alignment sure, it's fun and great although it feels as if I don't have to do anything because my alignment on that toon will win anyway. When I play a Dark Side character however I have the feeling nothing that I do matters anyway because my alignment then won't win either way. During the livestreams the losing side gets a boost as to the alignments points they gain but I see nothing of that back during gameplay? The Light Side is always winning and I don't think it was intended for it for one side to always continiously win on one server.

 

Perhaps a closer look is needed at the balance of the Dark vs Light server war thing in the game, because, and I of course may be totally wrong, have a feeling that the scales are set in favour of the Light Side. I really would want to see a struggle, that one time Dark Side wins and another Light Side two times in a row upon which the Dark Side retaliates but that's not the case. To me it seems as if the entire server war on the Progenitor (I don't know about other servers) is completely stagnant.

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CrazyCT

CrazyCT

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It's not balance, it's the people. People saw that light side won the first few matches, and decided to get behind the winning team. Bioware can't do anything about mercenaries (personality type, not the BH AC) who just want to win, no matter what side they are on.
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Tharandil

Tharandil

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Dear Bioware and players,

 

On the Progenitor it seems as if the Light Side is the only side that is winning. I have maybe at max 4 or 5 times seen the Dark Side getting to Tier 1 but not half an hour later suddenly the message pops up the Light Side is again victorious. Correction, the Light Side is -always- victorious on my server. Not once did I see the Dark Side win and it is not because I am simply online at the wrong time or the wrong day. I am online on SWTOR for multiple hours per day and each and every single time it is the Light Side that wins.

When playing on a character that has the Light Side alignment sure, it's fun and great although it feels as if I don't have to do anything because my alignment on that toon will win anyway. When I play a Dark Side character however I have the feeling nothing that I do matters anyway because my alignment then won't win either way. During the livestreams the losing side gets a boost as to the alignments points they gain but I see nothing of that back during gameplay? The Light Side is always winning and I don't think it was intended for it for one side to always continiously win on one server.

 

Perhaps a closer look is needed at the balance of the Dark vs Light server war thing in the game, because, and I of course may be totally wrong, have a feeling that the scales are set in favour of the Light Side. I really would want to see a struggle, that one time Dark Side wins and another Light Side two times in a row upon which the Dark Side retaliates but that's not the case. To me it seems as if the entire server war on the Progenitor (I don't know about other servers) is completely stagnant.

 

Yeah I play on the progenitor too, never once seen a higher tier than dark 1. Makes you wonder, is our server solely consisting out of LS players?

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Voblat

Voblat

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Its the same on Red Eclipse.

 

Dark tier 1 sometimes, but light always wins.

 

Of course, this was predictable to anyone who has ever played an MMO ever. Everyone joins the winning side.

 

Apparently this is news to the devs here though.

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Alec_Fortescue

Alec_Fortescue

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Posted (edited)
It's not balance, it's the people. People saw that light side won the first few matches, and decided to get behind the winning team. Bioware can't do anything about mercenaries (personality type, not the BH AC) who just want to win, no matter what side they are on.

 

Oh no, Bioware can do a lot. For instance give vendors some proper rewards, not rehashed Dread War armor sets and funky, badly done, cartel market left overs. Dark side assortment is horrid compared to the Jedi robes on the light side vendor.

 

If Dark Side vendor had anything closely related to Sith Recluse or Tulak Hord then a lot of people would be willing to get it . Instead it has some a clown outfit and Rated PvP rip off. http://torf.mmo-fashion.com/dark-disciple/

Edited by Alec_Fortescue
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CrazyCT

CrazyCT

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Oh no, Bioware can do a lot. For instance give vendors some proper rewards, not rehashed Dread War armor sets and funky, badly done, cartel market left overs. Dark side assortment is horrid compared to the Jedi robes on the light side vendor.

 

Since you've been campaigning so hard for robes, it's obvious which side you'd prefer. Not everyone is the same.

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Alec_Fortescue

Alec_Fortescue

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Since you've been campaigning so hard for robes, it's obvious which side you'd prefer. Not everyone is the same.

 

Well, yes, I am a bit biased here. But comparing the two available armor sets is a no brainer as to which one is better looking in most cases.

 

http://torf.mmo-fashion.com/dark-disciple/ Clown Outfit vs Star Forge robe look-a-like http://torf.mmo-fashion.com/light-devotee/

 

If the Dark Side had any decent robes then I'd be more than happy to commit myself for tokens. If I could look anything similar to Kylo Ren or Darth Maul... I am tired of ridiculous armor sets and funky robes with all sort of spikes and attachments and and sttand-out colours.

Edited by Alec_Fortescue
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Sarova

Sarova

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Its the same on Red Eclipse.

 

Dark tier 1 sometimes, but light always wins.

 

Of course, this was predictable to anyone who has ever played an MMO ever. Everyone joins the winning side.

 

Apparently this is news to the devs here though.

I'm on Red Eclipse also and have given up ever getting tokens for my Dark Side main. It's not news to the Devs though. Somewhere (I forget where or I'd link it) there is a chart/graphic from EA/BW relating to 5 years of swtor that shows most players make light side choices. Given this info they knew way before launch that any dark vs light event/mechanic/feature or reaction will always be a win for the light side.

 

EDIT: Found the graphic - http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20160715-0 53% light VS 47% dark.

Edited by Sarova
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IanArgent

IanArgent

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I'm on Red Eclipse also and have given up ever getting tokens for my Dark Side main. It's not news to the Devs though. Somewhere (I forget where or I'd link it) there is a chart/graphic from EA/BW relating to 5 years of swtor that shows most players make light side choices. Given this info they knew way before launch that any dark vs light event/mechanic/feature or reaction will always be a win for the light side.

 

EDIT: Found the graphic - http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20160715-0 53% light VS 47% dark.

 

Which is probably why everything you do ticks points, including crew missions. Which, incidentally, I'm not a big fan of, since it means your character's personal alignment is no longer a result of your conversation choices, but of a toggle switch and how often you run crew missions. I think tying the character alignment to this system was not a good idea.

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Tsillah

Tsillah

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It's not balance, it's the people. People saw that light side won the first few matches, and decided to get behind the winning team. Bioware can't do anything about mercenaries (personality type, not the BH AC) who just want to win, no matter what side they are on.

 

Do you really want to contend that BWA had no idea this could happen?

 

What BWA can do about your mercenaries is not create a system where they can flourish.

 

Now, I don't think you're completely right, because I also think there are a lot more people on some servers involved in the Light Side choices and the reverse may be true on other servers.

 

But I do think you have a point aside from that. Why?

 

Because the LS vs DS has one big problem...the CXP bonus. This is what makes it part of the end gearing system, which I think was a mistake. And considering the rewards for the LS/DS tokens, I daresay it's the main reason why people bother with it.

 

Of course a lot of people may be participating withour realising it. I've already seen people thinking that champions give 23 CXP instead of 20 because they didn't realise they had a bonus going on but the ones really going for it may well be those mercenaries you speak of cause they just want to have the max CXP boost.

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wainot-keel

wainot-keel

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It's not balance, it's the people. People saw that light side won the first few matches, and decided to get behind the winning team. Bioware can't do anything about mercenaries (personality type, not the BH AC) who just want to win, no matter what side they are on.

 

I don't give a single thingy about this DS/LS stuff. None whatsoever.

In fact, I find those constant announcements about how the DS/LS grows stronger/weaker and the winning suff really annoying. I wish I could turn all that off from my UI. So hell yeah, if I'm going to get annoyed regardless, at least I'm going to take some advantage from it

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DesertusRatticus

DesertusRatticus

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Dear Bioware and players,

 

On the Progenitor it seems as if the Light Side is the only side that is winning. I have maybe at max 4 or 5 times seen the Dark Side getting to Tier 1 but not half an hour later suddenly the message pops up the Light Side is again victorious. Correction, the Light Side is -always- victorious on my server. Not once did I see the Dark Side win and it is not because I am simply online at the wrong time or the wrong day. I am online on SWTOR for multiple hours per day and each and every single time it is the Light Side that wins.

When playing on a character that has the Light Side alignment sure, it's fun and great although it feels as if I don't have to do anything because my alignment on that toon will win anyway. When I play a Dark Side character however I have the feeling nothing that I do matters anyway because my alignment then won't win either way. During the livestreams the losing side gets a boost as to the alignments points they gain but I see nothing of that back during gameplay? The Light Side is always winning and I don't think it was intended for it for one side to always continiously win on one server.

 

Perhaps a closer look is needed at the balance of the Dark vs Light server war thing in the game, because, and I of course may be totally wrong, have a feeling that the scales are set in favour of the Light Side. I really would want to see a struggle, that one time Dark Side wins and another Light Side two times in a row upon which the Dark Side retaliates but that's not the case. To me it seems as if the entire server war on the Progenitor (I don't know about other servers) is completely stagnant.

Switch the words "dark" and "light", and that is exactly what happens on Vanjervalis Chain.

 

Somehow it seems that once a server is basically locked in to an alignment, it never changes. Something is clearly not working as intended.

I refuse to believe that the majority of the players on my server are Darkside, and I refuse to believe that the majority of players on other servers are Lightside.

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Soul_of_Flames

Soul_of_Flames

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Solution:

1. Certain items on each vendor require a certain Light/Dark tier to purchase, in addition to the required tokens. Meaning you can't just swap back and forth between Dark I and Light I to reap all the rewards. You need to fully commit if you want the best stuff.

 

2. Add neutral item rewards onto both vendors that can only be purchased with a Light/Dark rating below tier 1.

 

3. When one side is victorious, they get a set amount of CXP.

-Neutral +100 CXP

-Tier 1 +20 CXP

-Tier 2 +50 CXP

-Tier 3 +100 CXP

-Tier 4 +250 CXP

-Tier 5 +450 CXP

 

3a. Every sequential victory would reward the winning side with a 25% CXP bonus the next time around. This bonus stacks every time that side claims victory, up to 200%.

 

3b. In a victory state, the losing side gains even more CXP in addition to the alignment point bonus they already get.

-Neutral +100 CXP

-Tier 1 +10 CXP

-Tier 2 +30 CXP

-Tier 3 +100 CXP

-Tier 4 +300 CXP

-Tier 5 +550 CXP

 

3c. (Suggestion) create victory scenarios for neutral alignment. If you do that, then you can remove the neutral bonuses I listed previously and create a unique reward system for that.

 

4. Change the way the score is calculated. Instead of simply tallying up everyone's DS and LS points, add some multipliers to them. For Tiers 1 and 2, there would only be a 1x score multiplier. For Tier 3 and 4, it would be 2x and for tier 5 it would be 3x.

 

This would make it so that if a group of people really, really wanted the dark side rewards, then at tier 5, a single person's score would be worth exponentially more than a single merc who hops between T1/2 on Light or Dark. (Not only would each individual point be 3x more valuable, but they would have tens of thousands of points over the tier 1/2 groups already)

 

5. Under the victory condition, the losing side gets a .5x bonus score multiplier in the next round. This multiplier stacks every sequential loss they suffer. There is no cap limit to this multiplier; only that it resets once that side achieves victory.

 

6. To prevent simple patters like: Light wins, Light wins, Light wins, Dark wins, Light wins, Light wins, Light wins, Dark wins, ect; reward bonuses such as specific items on the vendors, would only be obtainable after X amount of sequential victories. Not only that, but the reward would only be obtainable one time per streak. So if light constantly wins, the reward would only be available once. But if the victory swapped between sides, then you could reap the reward every time your faction generated a win streak.

 

This reward would have to be some sort of consumable that generates demand. Because if it was a piece of armor or mount, people wouldn't be interested in claiming it multiple times. Perhaps a massive CXP booster or even something like 250 cartel coins?

 

 

 

The point is to discourage players from simply switching between the early tiers since the rewards and benefits they get are lack luster in comparison to the ones they would get it they fully committed to one side. It also encourages players to compete since they get the best rewards when consistently winning, but makes it harder and harder to each time since the losing side's points become more valuable after every loss. On top of that, if one side is consistently winning, they get less rewards than they would get if they where only going on shorter win streaks of 2 or 3 rounds at a time.

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BlazeTomahawk

BlazeTomahawk

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I just hate that I have to pick a side. My BH has been pretty neutral since start and was Dark 1 at level 65. Now he can't even do crafting missions without throwing himself out of balance. I really hate it.

 

I'm not able to check right now, but can you set some crafting missions, switch sides and set more for the other side? It' be a pain in my butt, but it would keep my crafting from affecting my alignment

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DenariusJay

DenariusJay

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Yep, Harb is 99.9% ligh side victories. The only way to get dark side tokens it grind World Bosses, meanwhile, Lightside players are probably hitting there weekly cap quite fast.

 

It has to do with "cant beat em join em" mentality, people see light side winning and just say F it, ill go light,

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JediAkemi

JediAkemi

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I've seen Dark Side win once, maybe twice on Progenitor at stupid o'clock in the morning.

Personally I couldn't care less about the acquisition of alignment tokens - there's nothing I want from either vendor anyway, and apart from my Inquisitor, all my characters were Light. I switched my "pale grey" Juggernaut to fighting for the Dark Side for now so she'd stay neutral.

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IanArgent

IanArgent

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Good idea, in theory. But, in theory, theory and practice are the same.

 

Needs a rethink (rather more than the CXP system does; that needs a lot of tuning and a better safety net for bad RNG). But several of the core ideas of DvL clash strongly with both deep game and metagame concepts of SWTOR. Your conversations decisions should matter the most for your character's alignment, and they're overwhelmed by the points you get for DvL activities, for one. And the massive alignment tilts make it an "unfair" system as well.

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