RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Frenesi]

AAAAAAAND AOWIN TAKES 1K POST!!!!

 

Our job is done here.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I wouldn't say you are a "raider" as much as someone who is only interested in doing Master Operations and believes they need the best gear to do so. If you were just a raider, you'd be happy to do the nine operations in the game on story mode and veteran mode. That is obviously not a good description of what you are.

eeee no, that's not what i am though. i just do not find any enjoyment int he same raids that have been out for 2-5 years and that i've finished on 8 man story, hard and nightmare. and i've farmed them every time we get a cap increase on every one of my alt. because getting new and better gear and then optimizing it to the best it could be was FUN for me. not because i NEED it to clear stuff, but because i'm OCD liek that and i'm not satisfied until my main has the best possible gear she can have. there's nothing wrong with that and i'm sure i'm not the only person in the game with this desire lol

 

I've already heard various scenarios of players actually being able to kill master operation bosses in their current gear. It's not as if you need the higher tier gear sets, you just want it. I'll use Hard Mode Blood Hunt as an example. During the DvL event, I was able to tank the flashpoint with ease using 208 gear and augments.

yeah Blood hunt... that was fun. and i know you can to the same ops in 224 gear now i know thatn. been there done that. but again, it's not fun when the only thing that u get is a VERY small CXP token. it was exciting when we downed and a boss and it was also very fun and exciting rolling off on the gear it dropped. and even if i wasn't the one to get it, i was happy my friend / teammate got it. now there's not much incentive to go and do all those again because there's absolutely nothing new there. so yes, i am a raider, but i'm a TIRED raider. i want new stuff to kill damn it. there's also nothing wrong with that desire.

 

Many "raiders" or "expert PvEers" will claim you could only do Hard Mode Blood Hunt if you had 220 gear or 224 gear, otherwise it's impossible. In fact, I actually had trouble initially getting a group because players claimed my gear wasn't good enough. Obviously, that was not the case. Having 220 gear or 224 gear would have certainly made the experience easier, but it wasn't at all necessary if you possess a certain level of skill, competency, and know the mechanics of each encounter.

no, indeed u don't need 220/224 to kill HM BH.... if you are a COMPETENT player, if you don't know the fight well, any amount of 224s won't save you.

The same applies to operations, as there were those who were able to complete Nightmare Explosive Conflict in entirely Rakata gear when it first released while others had to get the new Conquest gear in order to compensate for their lack of skill and ability.

 

I'm not suggesting you aren't good at your class and I'm not suggesting you don't know all the mechanics of these operations. However, I do believe you will likely agree that having BiS gear is a luxury more than it is a necessity.

for me that BiS gear is my goal. i take enjoyment in downing bosses and getting that piece of gear i need. i find it exciting. and even more so when i have a full SB and am working on finding hose specific mods and enhancements that are best for my spec. Now i don't get anything except ANNOYANCE and FRUSTRATION out of the process.

[Tsillah]

I'm just going to assume you don't listen to the Producer Live Streams. The team was talking about doing these "adjustments" before 5.0 even launched. They were well aware of potential pitfalls and were considering these changes well before your "feedback." Again, this is a system BioWare has been working on for many months. No, you have not had an actual impact on anything BioWare is doing thus far.

 

You don't know that. More assumptions on your side.

 

And I have seen the streams and the point that it's not about the changes tomorrow is irrelevant. They are making changes as I quoted and they are in line with my wishes. Whether they will go far enough remains to be seen but make no mistake, we started complaining about this before the launch as well. They wouldn't have said anything in this direction if nobody had said anything. But we did and they are planning adjustments. So our opinions have had an impact.

 

Twist all you want, that's where it's at.

[Tsillah]

AAAAAAAND AOWIN TAKES 1K POST!!!!

 

Our job is done here.

 

Oh you're right. I didn't realise that. Thanks for telling me, now I can stop posting here

 

Bye all, cya in other threads that hopefully have more value than Aowin's assumptions.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Oh you're right. I didn't realise that. Thanks for telling me, now I can stop posting here

 

Bye all, cya in other threads that hopefully have more value than Aowin's assumptions.

sigh, i will need to work hard to make myself stop bickering... got to find a new thread to inhabit, but he's so much fun though:D:D

[Aowin]

eeee no, that's not what i am though. i just do not find any enjoyment int he same raids that have been out for 2-5 years and that i've finished on 8 man story, hard and nightmare. and i've farmed them every time we get a cap increase on every one of my alt. because getting new and better gear and then optimizing it to the best it could be was FUN for me. not because i NEED it to clear stuff, but because i'm OCD liek that and i'm not satisfied until my main has the best possible gear she can have. there's nothing wrong with that and i'm sure i'm not the only person in the game with this desire lol

 

You aren't really a raider, in my eyes, then. You are a gear grinder, who likes to min/max and optimize their gear just to say they did it. When I was doing progression raiding at launch, I didn't care about the gear drops. I had the first republic group on my server to clear Nightmare EV with Soa still horribly broken and ball lightnings taking most of your health (before BioWare nerfed it and made NM EV easy for everybody).

 

There was no margin for error and the smallest mistakes would lead to immediate wipes. It took us seven hours to down Soa. I kid you not. What was the satisfaction in it for us? Being able to say we downed Nightmare Soa and did something most other players could not. We didn't care about the gear, although it was nice, We simply didn't need it and that's not why we raided. You are certainly welcome to enjoy the aspect of gearing up, but I would not consider you a raider.

 

yeah Blood hunt... that was fun. and i know you can to the same ops in 224 gear now i know thatn. been there done that. but again, it's not fun when the only thing that u get is a VERY small CXP token. it was exciting when we downed and a boss and it was also very fun and exciting rolling off on the gear it dropped. and even if i wasn't the one to get it, i was happy my friend / teammate got it. now there's not much incentive to go and do all those again because there's absolutely nothing new there. so yes, i am a raider, but i'm a TIRED raider. i want new stuff to kill damn it. there's also nothing wrong with that desire.

 

 

no, indeed u don't need 220/224 to kill HM BH.... if you are a COMPETENT player, if you don't know the fight well, any amount of 224s won't save you.

 

You are getting more than just CXP tokens. Schematics, among other things, drop in Master Operations that can be quite lucrative if you are a crafter. You'll just have to learn to accept the reality that gear drops coming back to operations is likely not going to happen. BioWare isn't interested in going that direction, considering it would be at odds with Galactic Command, and it really doesn't make sense going forward.

 

Then you will agree with me you are more than capable of doing the same progression raiding you did two weeks ago. You are merely upset at the fact you are not guaranteed the best gear in the game now, whereas you were before for killing nightmare bosses. This is why I am suggesting you really aren't a raider as much as you are a gear grinder.

 

for me that BiS gear is my goal. i take enjoyment in downing bosses and getting that piece of gear i need. i find it exciting. and even more so when i have a full SB and am working on finding hose specific mods and enhancements that are best for my spec. Now i don't get anything except ANNOYANCE and FRUSTRATION out of the process.

 

To the contrary, you will actually come to enjoy Galactic Command as the system ages and matures. Once players get to the higher tiers and the best schematics are available on the GTN for purchase, you'll be more than capable of getting some of the best gear in the game. Of course, you'll still need to get set pieces in the command crates, but everything else will more or less be available to you. I've already seen quite a few 230 gear pieces on the GTN and the prices are dropping quickly. I know you suggested you don't have a lot of credits, but it will soon get to the point where all of this gear is affordable and available for everyone.

[Aowin]

You don't know that. More assumptions on your side.

 

And I have seen the streams and the point that it's not about the changes tomorrow is irrelevant. They are making changes as I quoted and they are in line with my wishes. Whether they will go far enough remains to be seen but make no mistake, we started complaining about this before the launch as well. They wouldn't have said anything in this direction if nobody had said anything. But we did and they are planning adjustments. So our opinions have had an impact.

 

Twist all you want, that's where it's at.

 

The only players who likely had any tangible impact on 5.0 are those who were on the closed PTS testing the new content for weeks. Again, BioWare is not going to take feedback from players who had not even experienced Galactic Command at that point. I'm happy for you that you like some of the changes BioWare may implement. In case you weren't paying attention, Ben did not guarantee any of those suggestions were happening. He merely said the team was talking about it and that they would monitor the situation in the coming months.

 

Whatever BioWare does, it's not going to be something that happens anytime soon. Your sub will have been up by then and I have a feeling you may not be back until the next expansion at the earliest. BioWare isn't the kind of studio that makes sweeping and rapid changes without first considering all of their options. Change is slow in this game and any alterations BioWare makes to Galactic Command will likely take many months.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Aowin

[VirtualMorrigan]

Am I late for the award ceremony for "Shiniest Knight Ever"?

[peter_plankskull]

I'm not suggesting you aren't good at your class and I'm not suggesting you don't know all the mechanics of these operations. However, I do believe you will likely agree that having BiS gear is a luxury more than it is a necessity.

 

Just because 1% of people are able to do that, does not automatically disqualify all the other mere mortals. Not everyone is able to do nightmare mode operations in old top tier gear, and they need gear in order to make up for the gap that there skill doesn't allow for the moment. What if we applied that to all scenarios in life anyway?

 

Basing all requirements on life on the simple few standouts? Pfft that guy went without food for weeks! Surely you don't need to eat, you just want to eat!

[peter_plankskull]

AAAAAAAND AOWIN TAKES 1K POST!!!!

 

Our job is done here.

 

Now if you don't mind me im going to find a post to report to claim my rightful spot...

[Tsetso]

Now if you don't mind me im going to find a post to report to claim my rightful spot...

 

You can always necro MCB's thread and hope for 3k

[peter_plankskull]

You can always necro MCB's thread and hope for 3k

 

Well I managed to scapegoat with the 2k post by a thread merge so im quite satisfied with that one, not to mention that one is slowly getting necroed so over time it will reach that point, and I will be waiting. I'm telling you man... the MCB thread will be the biggest this forum has seen!

[Aowin]

Just because 1% of people are able to do that, does not automatically disqualify all the other mere mortals. Not everyone is able to do nightmare mode operations in old top tier gear, and they need gear in order to make up for the gap that there skill doesn't allow for the moment. What if we applied that to all scenarios in life anyway?

 

Basing all requirements on life on the simple few standouts? Pfft that guy went without food for weeks! Surely you don't need to eat, you just want to eat!

 

My point is quite a few alleged "raiders" have been claiming they are unable to do progression raiding due to not having access to the new BiS gear. Time and time again (in this thread and others) I have heard claims about how BioWare won't let progression raiders do the content they love. Is this true? Not at all.

 

Progression raiders are more than able to go into a Master Mode Operation. If they are really good and have a competent group, they can even complete it. For those who can't, it would seem apparent to me that they should look to improve on their own abilities rather than using gear as a crutch. I'm not trying to be harsh, but it is patently false that players cannot do progression raiding right this very minute.

 

It's entirely possible. If you are merely unable to do it with your group, that's not BioWare's fault. To be quite honest, it would probably be good for a lot of self-proclaimed "progression raiders" if they aren't able to rely on BiS gear and actually have to depend on their teammates and their own skills to overcome these challenges. That, in my opinion, is what raiding was always about.

[peter_plankskull]

My point is quite a few alleged "raiders" have been claiming they are unable to do progression raiding due to not having access to the new BiS gear. Time and time again (in this thread and others) I have heard claims about how BioWare won't let progression raiders do the content they love. Is this true? Not at all.

 

Progression raiders are more than able to go into a Master Mode Operation. If they are really good and have a competent group, they can even complete it. For those who can't, it would seem apparent to me that they should look to improve on their own abilities rather than using gear as a crutch. I'm not trying to be harsh, but it is patently false that players cannot do progression raiding right this very minute.

 

It's entirely possible. If you are merely unable to do it with your group, that's not BioWare's fault. To be quite honest, it would probably be good for a lot of self-proclaimed "progression raiders" if they aren't able to rely on BiS gear and actually have to depend on their teammates and their own skills to overcome these challenges. That, in my opinion, is what raiding was always about.

 

Please re read post.

[Frenesi]

Am I late for the award ceremony for "Shiniest Knight Ever"?

 

Well, there's CrazyCT who usurped that place for herself. But I'm pretty sure Aowin can overthrow that self-proclaimed ruler of white knights!

[Aowin]

Please re read post.

 

Again, it's not BioWare's problem. It's a personal problem. All endgame content is readily available and can be completed. If there are those who are unable to complete it due to their own inadequacies, that's not a game issue. That's a player issue. Those players who are unable to complete Master Mode Operations now will just have to sit tight and level up through Galactic Command until they have the appropriate gear to carry them through.

 

As with everything, those with the most skill and talent will always shine the brightest. That's not something BioWare can stop, but they can try to make a more level playing field. That's exactly what Galactic Command is. The fact that some do not want to be equal and want access to the best gear now just so they can use it as a crutch in progression raiding is really a non-issue.

[Divona]

Nothing but speculation. SWTOR is a F2P MMO with a premium membership (subscription) option. Lets assume you are correct and a majority of players were to unsubscribe (not happening, but lets go with it). BioWare reels in plenty of revenue from F2P folks who go preferred when they spend money via the CM to either unlock or get additional benefits for their account. Subscribers are a piece of the pie, but not the entire experience.

 

SWTOR has not be a purely subscription-based MMO late 2012. I wouldn't be surprised if most players who spend money on the CM just buy packs to put them on the GTN and make credits. I doubt any of those players would likely leave as they have too much fun over-inflating prices on the auction house and making a killing.

 

We shall see. So far i have watched torstatus server population since this game was launched and i predicted and was correct all the time when new server merges were just around corner. We shall see how this game population is in next months. I can tell you now it does not look good. If game will end up with only 2-3 servers total, then this is confirmation we all wanted. There is no need to wait for some official subscription numbers. And we know EA will never ever release them again when it comes to this game.

Fluff or CM items can only last as long there is healthy population who are willing to buy them.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Divona

[Hichitsuki-hime]

okay let's seee.... PROGRESSION.

PROGRESSION (noun)

The noun PROGRESSION has 3 senses:

1. a series with a definite pattern of advance

2. a movement forward

3. the act of moving forward toward a goal

 

so, raid progression = ?

in my opinion moving on with the op, killing stuff, PROGRESSING through it. After you down everything on prog, u start farming for gear for those members of the team that didn't get it during the progression stage.

 

so... after the raids being out for 2-5 years respectively, who exactly is still counting this as progression exactly? noobs that started recently and never done it before ? sure. casuals or pvpers who decided to take an interest in the pve group content? possibly. PvEers though? those who've cleared it every expansion? ... maybe some, but certainly not all. Unlike PvP, where the same map doesn't equal the same match, PvE doesn't change. once you've mastered the mechanics, you almost do it on reflex. It doesn't challenge you as much as it used to. and yes, eventually you might start caring more about the shiny the boss drops and not about killing said boss Nth time over. First time i killed Nim Brontes or HM Revan? i was ecstatic! not because i got a decoration or a statue or a title, but because i FINALLY KILLED IT. It was exhilarating exciting awesome and so on. But after that, it eventually gets less and less challenging, less and less interesting.

Remember farming HM EV/KP on highlight? yeah, i don't think that many people went there for the goal of killing SOA again. it was prob that shiny carrot of 224 mainhand lol

[Aowin]

We shall see. So far i have watched torstatus server population since this game was launched and i predicted and was correct all the time when new server merges were just around corner. We shall see how this game population is in next months. I can tell you now it does not look good. If game will end up with only 2-3 servers total, then this is confirmation we all wanted. There is no need to wait for some official subscription numbers. And we know EA will never ever release them again when it comes to this game.

Fluff or CM items can only last as long there is healthy population who are willing to buy them.

 

In fairness, SWTOR had way too many servers at launch. BioWare only had so many in order to avoid massive log-in queues on servers. Why it took BioWare so long to merge servers shortly after the game released is beyond me. They waited for three-fourths of the player base to leave and then decided to do something.

 

Truth be told, this game would be better off with fewer servers. Half of the servers are dead and there really isn't any point in being on those servers, unless you are trying to monopolize the price of goods on the GTN. This game will always be profitable due to the changes EA made years ago.

 

By doing massive layoffs, decreasing the budget of the studio, and by switching to F2P which created a new source of revenue, SWTOR makes enough money to keep itself going. Just like Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot, SWTOR is self-sufficient to the point where it can keep going indefinitely.

 

There is a dedicated install base that just isn't likely to leave, largely because this is the only Star Wars MMO on the market. I don't see this game going anywhere, regardless of how big or small the community is, until a new Star Wars MMO is made to replace it. Since EA has exclusive rights to the Star Wars IP with regard to gaming until 2023 (likely to be extended), BioWare would likely be in charge of any future Star Wars MMO, should things come to that.

[Aowin]

okay let's seee.... PROGRESSION.

PROGRESSION (noun)

The noun PROGRESSION has 3 senses:

1. a series with a definite pattern of advance

2. a movement forward

3. the act of moving forward toward a goal

 

so, raid progression = ?

in my opinion moving on with the op, killing stuff, PROGRESSING through it. After you down everything on prog, u start farming for gear for those members of the team that didn't get it during the progression stage.

 

so... after the raids being out for 2-5 years respectively, who exactly is still counting this as progression exactly? noobs that started recently and never done it before ? sure. casuals or pvpers who decided to take an interest in the pve group content? possibly. PvEers though? those who've cleared it every expansion? ... maybe some, but certainly not all. Unlike PvP, where the same map doesn't equal the same match, PvE doesn't change. once you've mastered the mechanics, you almost do it on reflex. It doesn't challenge you as much as it used to. and yes, eventually you might start caring more about the shiny the boss drops and not about killing said boss Nth time over. First time i killed Nim Brontes or HM Revan? i was ecstatic! not because i got a decoration or a statue or a title, but because i FINALLY KILLED IT. It was exhilarating exciting awesome and so on. But after that, it eventually gets less and less challenging, less and less interesting.

Remember farming HM EV/KP on highlight? yeah, i don't think that many people went there for the goal of killing SOA again. it was prob that shiny carrot of 224 mainhand lol

 

My point was I would not consider you to be a raider. As many already claim anyway, true "raiders" left the game two years ago when BioWare decided to no longer support operations. There is little value in killing NM Soa now, considering BioWare has nerfed that encounter several times. It was truly only impressive for those who downed him at launch.

 

I understand you are tired of the same operations and tired of killing the same bosses over and over. However, content you really enjoy should always been fun to an extent. It may become redundant, but the act of doing it should always provide some level of joy.

 

Either way, your only recourse is to wait it out and progress through this system for the next few months. Operations are no longer your means of acquiring BiS gear. Galactic Command is the only path and you can decide to do Master Mode Operations or something else to acquire the gear you wish to have.

[Frenesi]

Crazy CT honestly is kind of fun to see on the forums and is always humorous while brightening up my day. Yes... I.. I know... no one hacked my account and part of me even likes Andryah when he isn't all on his high horse condemning others for actions he does himself.... Sometimes he can provide very good points but ugh... that ad hominem he throws in at times.

 

Both of these posters have redeeming qualities as mentioned above.... however Aowin.... Aowin is rarely humorous and always has kind of "im right and you're wrong!" attitude with plenty of back pedaling while playing everything off that he's never wrong... It's a insult to compare Crazy CT to Aowin .

 

I was mostly referring to her signature. Hence "self-proclaimed usurper of throne"

Edited December 12, 2016 by Frenesi

[Hichitsuki-hime]

or i might get tired of getting nothing but crap and go back to WoW or ESO even. or stop my sub and play as a F2P again, even though i've never stopped my sub before. enough bad RNG and i just might. the thing i hate is not doing same ops over and over. it's this damn RNG. because it's always hated me. when EV was priority i'd lock out all my 40 toons in hope to get ONE mainhand i could use on most my toons. It took me at least a month.. which is about 160 ish lockouts. but at least i knew that the MH was guaranteed. now i'm grinding boxes that i have no clue what's inside. it could be awesome. but it usually is just crap. it's exhausting. if this in your eyes i'm not a raider, then honestly i don't care much. i'm just yet another paying customer who's frustrated with the way they're implementing their loot system of choice. it's my hobby . i'd like to enjoy it. some days i can't even stay logged on for more then 5-10 min cause i have no desire to grind same old things. but i keep on doing it. why? because though hope is becoming smaller and smaller, i still hope that they'll do something good. come up with something exciting. and then comes stream. as always vague and nothing concrete and i sigh and wait for the update and it's again nothing super, same bugs, exploits, credit spammers and etc.

master chapters coming soon... exciting? no not really. after roll through #3+ they became boring to me so added HP to mobs doesn't really excite me at all.

increased CXP from uprisings.. yay nice... if i ever want to do another one after i understood there isn't much story to them. but i'll keep on trying and hoping until the day it finally really occurs to me that all they're doing is beating the dead horse with a stick and hoping it moves.

[Tsetso]

So, are we going for the 2k prize?

[Hichitsuki-hime]

So, are we going for the 2k prize?

eh, let's see. at this point i'm bickering for the sake of bickering. venting and it's at least more fun then the grind lol:D:D

[Tsetso]

eh, let's see. at this point i'm bickering for the sake of bickering. venting and it's at least more fun then the grind lol:D:D

 

I know the feeling - I only logged to see the story. Forum pvp is the best pvp.