RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

None of this makes sense. They definitely could get top tier gear in 5.0. They could easily get into raid groups. Raid groups would literally run you through EV and KP HM to get a full set of 220s if they needed a new member. You could be decked out the same day you hit max level. Now they can grind out command levels for a few months PER CHARACTER to even have a chance at getting the best gear. And with Operations being one of the slower ways of accumulating CXP, I don't think there will be people lining up to run them whether they are a new player or not.

 

yes thank you. VERY MUCH THIS. now let's try to make him UNDERSTAND this :D:D

[Quraswren]

SNIP.... With 5.0, getting top tier gear is obtainable and newcomers no longer have to rely on raid groups. SNIP...

 

You say obtainable like its within grasp to just reach out and get it.

 

It's held behind a massive grind unlike anything this game has ever seen as well the the RNG factor of making sure they can't actually obtain it.

 

Simply saying it's obtainable is disingenuous at best. Just saying, oh you can do any content and get gera means nothing combined with the massive grind and RNG gearing allowing gamers to go weeks if not months wasting their game time on a casinos chance at gear.

 

What you claim doesn't actually happen so easily in reality. Newcomers will be faced with a massive grind and if there not willing to put in massive amounts of hours they will once again be behind but thsi time, no amount of gamer help will assist them. No PUG will help them gear up sooner and no dedicated raid group can help them fill out their gear.

 

any gmer that comes late to the party is now at a disadvantage and it only gets worse and worse for them as days click by. IF the massive new grind doesn't cause them to lose interest and leave the RNG will get another chance to cause them to leave.

 

For veterans returning it gets worse because they will remember how gear was obtained and compare it to the massive grind just for an RNG crate and suddenly the reason they left swtor in the first place, now has a second reason to leave it again.

 

Just saying, "oh gear is obtainable" is a bit of a joke in this stance. Just like saying, sure you can win the lottery but the reality of it is the majority never do. So stop glazing over this fiasco as if it creates this great system for everyone when it simply does not.

 

Parts of GC could be nice but as a whole unit of RNG gearing, the massive grind combined with extremely stale end game content that has a reward you cannot even see to use as acarrot on a stick. Saying obtainable as if it was the same for everyone is a joke.

[curulz]

Not at all. Prior to 5.0 newcomers could never get top tier gear and the likelihood they'd ever get into a raid group was virtually zero. With 5.0, getting top tier gear is obtainable and newcomers no longer have to rely on raid groups. There will be plenty of people learning the ropes and going through the content with other newcomers. It's not as if there are many raid guilds left, according to raiders.

 

I have been part of many guilds that I would "casual progressive". By that I mean we would run content that was challenging to us, not necessarily the most challenging in the game. But if a teammate left, which happened, we would look for a replacement. Gear was the least of our concerns in finding a replacement. The reason was that 4.0 made it easy to gear a new teammate in 220 set gear. It did not take long to help get them geared, and we didn't have to ask someone new to spend tons of credits to buy crafted gear for them to be up to par. Gearing someone could be a team effort prior to 5.0.

 

In 5.0, gear is an individual endeavor (even though they can team to earn CXP). So helping someone gear up is no longer an option. I believe teams looking for replacements will be even more gear conscience than before. That is why I believe that new folks looking to get into progressive raiding (be it my definition or not) will find it difficult. unless they are already ahead of the gear curve which may not be possible. So they will either need to invest quite a bit of credits to get a decent set of gear, or grind in their off time. Both of which may not be a possible.

[DarthWoad]

Not at all. Prior to 5.0 newcomers could never get top tier gear and the likelihood they'd ever get into a raid group was virtually zero. With 5.0, getting top tier gear is obtainable and newcomers no longer have to rely on raid groups. There will be plenty of people learning the ropes and going through the content with other newcomers. It's not as if there are many raid guilds left, according to raiders.

 

Which is why it's such a bad system.

 

Why SHOULD they get the top gear if they can't get into a raid group? All they gotta do is set up a raid group. And now you love how everythings just handed to people on a plate for the sake of "equality". Where's the challenge in that? Wheres the challenge in grinding to get random lockboxes in the chance of getting an item.

 

If you want the best gear, you gotta kill the best bosses....thats how it should be. But now you're loving the fact people can level from 1-70, not talk to a single person and still get the best gear. Do you honestly think that's healthy for an MMO???

Edited December 8, 2016 by DarthWoad

[Aowin]

The point being made was you somehow thought the forums were not a good gauge of dislike for hte system because not everyone can post and you were shown the ones posting are the same ones dealing with it because they are subs. All others can't touch it. Your theory was slapped down rather easily.

 

The idea that you think this is an even playing field is also a joke. New and returning players are faced wtih a similar wall to gear just like they were in 4.0 but this time instead of someone being able to help them, they are left to a massive grind that can take upwards of a 180 straight days of getting 4+ thousand CXP a day, never missing a day jsut to get a small "chance" at gear and if we base tier 1 random drops and tier 3. They are less likly to get gear now than they were in 4.0

 

This did not in any way even the playing field for all games and of course swtor will live on. SW is a good IP but like SWG, gamers will eventually only take so much when it comes to terrible design and development. Just like in SWG.

 

For someone thats been around as long as you have I'm shocked you are this delusional to the reality of the situation.

 

The forums aren't a good gauge of community opinion... Most players (specifically subscribers) do not post on the forums. It's always a vocal minority. To think otherwise is silly and pointless.

 

Not at all. Newcomers are guaranteed gear as long as they play, whereas they never had an opportunity to get top tier gear previously due to not being in raid groups and no one willing to help them.

 

I came from SWG. You are comparing apples to oranges. NGE was a major outcry because the game went from 34 professions to 9 classes with Jedi being unlocked for all. It was a massive overhaul of game design and fundamentally changed the game forever. Galactic Command is nothing more than an inclusive gear system that everybody will accept once the initial denial period by the vocal minority has subsided.

 

For someone who has been around as long as I have, I understand entirely what BioWare is doing. This isn't about us. This is about the future of the game and what that looks like.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Aowin

[DarthWoad]

The forums aren't a good gauge of community opinion... Most players (specifically subscribers) do not post on the forums. It's always a vocal minority. To think otherwise is silly and pointless.

 

Again, you're giving your "vocal minority" argument to try and invalidated peoples arguments just because no one shares your views.

 

Not at all. Newcomers are guaranteed gear as long as they play, whereas they never had an opportunity to get top tier gear previously due to not being in raid groups and no one willing to help them.

 

Actually, newcomers have every opportunity to get into a raid group. It's just that some people either can't be bothered or don't have the time. So why on earth should they get stuff when they put no time into doing challenging content?

 

Galactic Command is nothing more than an inclusive gear system that everybody will accept once the initial denial period by the vocal minority has subsided.

 

Keep telling yourself that

 

For someone who has been around as long as I have, I understand entirely what BioWare is doing. This isn't about us. This is about the future of the game and what that looks like.

 

Completely disagree. They have no idea what they're doing.

[Aowin]

Exactly my point. Aowin was saying how raiding is passe, then he says how GC will help encourage new comers to raid. Its like he's arguing with himself.

 

Raiding is irrelevant for raiders, as according to them there has been no new content in two years. For newcomers? They have nine brand new raids to enjoy and work through. Galactic Command facilitates that experience perfectly. It just does not facilitate progression raiders who only want to progression raid immediately after an expansion launches.

[DarthWoad]

Raiding is irrelevant for raiders, as according to them there has been no new content in two years. For newcomers? They have nine brand new raids to enjoy and work through. Galactic Command facilitates that experience perfectly. It just does not facilitate progression raiders who only want to progression raid immediately after an expansion launches.

 

So what exactly stopped newcomers before from doing those nine brand new raids?

 

And actually I think people wanted new playable content after an expansion launches...that's generally what happens.

Edited December 8, 2016 by DarthWoad

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Raiding is irrelevant for raiders, as according to them there has been no new content in two years. For newcomers? They have nine brand new raids to enjoy and work through. Galactic Command facilitates that experience perfectly. It just does not facilitate progression raiders who only want to progression raid immediately after an expansion launches.

 

yeah, u know very well doing raids that have been out for 2 years (just in case of rav and tos ) is not progression no matter how u look at it.

how is this system inclusive exactly? nothing has changed in how people play. just instead of doing what they like they're forced to do what give most CXP which is PvP.

[Aowin]

My introduction to MMOs was in a sandbox game with essentially no gear progression. Rewards for play were cash and crafting materials (and the game had a multi-layered crafting economy where you could quite rewardingly only play in the crafting/merchandising minigame; except when you had to compete with people who subsidized their stores with the profits of adventuring). Though, there weren't any stats to speak of either, the game was all about player personal skill.

 

It sounds like you were playing a simulator and not a sandbox MMO. Character progression (i.e. stats) are a pillar of RPGs. Every MMORPG I have ever played (sandbox or theme park) had stats. Some games made them more relevant than others, but they all had stats. To not have any stats at all is to not be an MMORPG.

 

The pillars of the MMO: Combat, Exploration, and Progression. SWTOR added the fourth pillar of Story to the equation and many MMOs have tried to follow suit, with ESO being a major example.

 

Those four pillars must be intact for an experience to be a modern MMORPG.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Aowin

[Hichitsuki-hime]

It sounds like you were playing a simulator and not a sandbox MMO. Character progression (i.e. stats) are a pillar of RPGs. Every MMORPG I have ever played (sandbox or theme park) had stats. Some games made them more relevant than others, but they all had stats. To not have any stats at all is to not be an MMORPG.

 

The pillars of the MMO: Combat, Exploration, and Progression. SWTOR added the fourth pillar of Story to the equation and many MMOs have tried to follow suit, with ESO being a major example.

 

Those four pillars must be intact for an experience to be a modern MMORPG.

 

and what ESO did best is the system of champion points which is so very alt-friendly =) wish SWTOR would take that into consideration as something new to add as opposed to this ridiculous RNG based gearing

[Aowin]

now that is a lie. i've personally put together groups to carry new lvl 65s through priority HM OPS to get them their 224 gear at least once a month. in fact it took me 2-3 months to get geared, after that all i did was help other people get their gear. some of them were alts, some of them were new guildies, some of them - random person from fleet. Multiple raiding guilds would organize sale runs, some people would form constant pugs to help others, so the statement that in 4.0 new toons could easily get geared is a bare faced LIE

 

P.S.: as for people doing content together with newbies in 5.0 - yeah that is unlikely, there is no incentive. mostly people will do what brings them most CXP - currently that's PvP.

 

Your personal experience does not translate into truth. I saw plenty of examples of players not having the connections or the gear to get into any sort of raiding. Nobody would help them and oftentimes they were kicked if their gear rating was high enough or if they didn't know the fights. It's a mixed bag, but it cannot be argued that 4.0 made it easier to get top tier gear for newcomers. For some they were lucky. For many others, they fell through the cracks. Galactic Command changes all of that and gives every newcomer the chance to get top tier gear and actually raid regardless of having a raid guild to help.

[ZillaElite]

IMO, Bioware have gone the route of a Blizzard game, but not the one you're thinking, WoW, but have built something similar to the Diablo 3 in the SWTOR universe. A major GRINDFEST where all gear drops are RNG. Similar to Diablo, after many hours of Grinding and being at the mercy of the RNG Gods, I wanna murder kittens.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Your personal experience does not translate into truth. I saw plenty of examples of players not having the connections or the gear to get into any sort of raiding. Nobody would help them and oftentimes they were kicked if their gear rating was high enough or if they didn't know the fights. It's a mixed bag, but it cannot be argued that 4.0 made it easier to get top tier gear for newcomers. For some they were lucky. For many others, they fell through the cracks. Galactic Command changes all of that and gives every newcomer the chance to get top tier gear and actually raid regardless of having a raid guild to help.

 

in 4.0 there were HM ops that would drop NiM gear 1 op per week, INCLUDING HM EV and HM KP!!!! u realize how easy they are???? and yes i know my personal experience doesn't make it one way or the other, just as much as YOUR personal experience doesn't make it absolute truth either.

[Kingsbount]

Your personal experience does not translate into truth. .

 

lol kiddo

 

Your "argument" is especially funny when it comes from you.

Becouse it can be applyed to YOU.

 

Just like you said...

 

Your personal experience does NOT translate into truth

[Jadescythe]

Which is why it's such a bad system.

 

Why SHOULD they get the top gear if they can't get into a raid group? All they gotta do is set up a raid group. And now you love how everythings just handed to people on a plate for the sake of "equality". Where's the challenge in that? Wheres the challenge in grinding to get random lockboxes in the chance of getting an item.

 

If you want the best gear, you gotta kill the best bosses....thats how it should be. But now you're loving the fact people can level from 1-70, not talk to a single person and still get the best gear. Do you honestly think that's healthy for an MMO???

 

I don't really see your point. You're basically just stating your opinion that gear should be obtained one way because it's what you like. This game has clearly shifted from forced grouping to optional grouping, so it only makes sense that the best gear would be available without grouping. The challenge of killing the best bosses is still there and cosmetic rewards can still be obtained. You need to branch your thinking outside of the typical MMO gearing system as the game is clearly not centered around large scale group content, so it makes sense that the gear system wouldn't be either.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

IMO, Bioware have gone the route of a Blizzard game, but not the one you're thinking, WoW, but have built something similar to the Diablo 3 in the SWTOR universe. A major GRINDFEST where all gear drops are RNG. Similar to Diablo, after many hours of Grinding and being at the mercy of the RNG Gods, I wanna murder kittens.

 

you and me both. counting the backrolled 4, ZERO upgrade in 39 crates. like...... WHAT DA ****. how is this better than 4.0 ops gear drops? or even 3.0? and how the hell can this be any kind of fair? like i'm sorry, but no i do not see anything GOOD or FAIR, or INCLUSIVE about this Kind of **** RNG

[Aowin]

[snip]Just saying, "oh gear is obtainable" is a bit of a joke in this stance. Just like saying, sure you can win the lottery but the reality of it is the majority never do. So stop glazing over this fiasco as if it creates this great system for everyone when it simply does not.

 

Parts of GC could be nice but as a whole unit of RNG gearing, the massive grind combined with extremely stale end game content that has a reward you cannot even see to use as acarrot on a stick. Saying obtainable as if it was the same for everyone is a joke.

 

Again, you assume Galactic Command will remain as it currently is until the next expansion. That is unrealistic considering BioWare has already stated multiple times they will tweak it and they have the means to alter the system quite easily. It's also almost guaranteed that BioWare will create CXP weekends to help close that gap between players in GC now and players in GC months later.

 

As I said before, the system has never been more inclusive than it is now. You don't have to get lucky finding raiders that happen to be kind enough to help you gear. The system works in your favor and provides you with help regardless of raiders or anyone else. By just having the gear the opportunity to do progression raiding is open to newcomers where it never truly was before. The game was working against newcomers (largely because they had to rely on raiders), but now the game supports newcomers.

[Quraswren]

The forums aren't a good gauge of community opinion... Most players (specifically subscribers) do not post on the forums. It's always a vocal minority. To think otherwise is silly and pointless.

 

To think its not a good gauge is a fruitless endeavor. Simple statistics in such a situation can help gauge the populace. We are a sample size of the game and a decent one at that given therelatively low number of players in the game. A game company that loves their metrics. Here we are.

 

N

ot at all. Newcomers are guaranteed gear as long as they play, whereas they never had an opportunity to get top tier gear previously due to not being in raid groups and no one willing to help them.

 

that is inherently incorrect do ti RNG alone. At least in 4.0 if they got in a group, they could get gear. Hell, coming in late and they had even more of a chance to get gera because people would actually pass to people who actually needed it when we pugged. RNG makes sure that no matter what, there is a chance to never get gear no matter their effort or skill.

 

I came from SWG. You are comparing apples to oranges. NGE was a major outcry because the game went from 34 professions to 9 classes with Jedi being unlocked for all. It was a massive overhaul of game design and fundamentally changed the game forever. Galactic Command is nothing more than an inclusive gear system that everybody will accept once the initial denial period by the vocal minority has subsided.

 

I came from SWG as well. It's now a shut down game after 8 years and NGE was just a start at why. I'm not so bold to say this is swtor version of NGE but the current changes are not some Godsend to good gaming. GC and that grind is a massive fundimental game change to swtor and how the game has been ran for gearing. Thats not apples and oranges. It's massively similar. GC is no more inclusive than what we had in 4.0. Do the content, get the gear you planned for. Now it's do the content, pull the slot machine handle and see what happens and pray. That system is not better much less equal some playing field for everyone unless you meant it as a way to screw everyone equally.

 

For someone who has been around as long as I have, I understand entirely what BioWare is doing. This isn't about us. This is about the future of the game and what that looks like.

 

So to the detriment of the game they though an online casino of gearing in an RNG loot crate slot machine pull combined with a massive grind this game has never had anything similar too, was the way to go? Talk about denial in what is a good direction for the future of the game.

 

Again, you assume Galactic Command will remain as it currently is until the next expansion. That is unrealistic considering BioWare has already stated multiple times they will tweak it and they have the means to alter the system quite easily. It's also almost guaranteed that BioWare will create CXP weekends to help close that gap between players in GC now and players in GC months later.

 

Well until it changes it has not. I'm not banking on bw making any great changes. They have shown to not really do a stellar job in that area. You assume there going to smooth out the rough edges which their past does not follow that line of logic. Things they say and things they do, do not always mesh.

 

You should know better than to take what bw says as even a possibility.

 

As I said before, the system has never been more inclusive than it is now. You don't have to get lucky finding raiders that happen to be kind enough to help you gear. The system works in your favor and provides you with help regardless of raiders or anyone else. By just having the gear the opportunity to do progression raiding is open to newcomers where it never truly was before. The game was working against newcomers (largely because they had to rely on raiders), but now the game supports newcomers.

 

As I have said before on why you are wrong. Why this version is even more harsh on new and returning gamers and the longer they are not here from last weeks launch date, the worse off they will be. This new RNG system doesn't work in anyones favor. That is not how RNG works. It wasn't created to ever be in your favor. it's sure isn't doing anyone any favors.

 

Those gamers that you think have some equal chance at gear at in for quite a surprise when they are once again denied gear because they can't put int he massive amount of time needed to actually get there but even if they get over that hurdle. RNG is waiting on them to once again deny then what they want regardless of who they are at that really.

 

That equal ground you seem to think is there is an illusion. As I have told you. Just claiming anyone can get gear is a joke. A false hope that RNG just isn't designed to let you do and thats if you can get through the grind at all.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Quraswren

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I don't really see your point. You're basically just stating your opinion that gear should be obtained one way because it's what you like. This game has clearly shifted from forced grouping to optional grouping, so it only makes sense that the best gear would be available without grouping. The challenge of killing the best bosses is still there and cosmetic rewards can still be obtained. You need to branch your thinking outside of the typical MMO gearing system as the game is clearly not centered around large scale group content, so it makes sense that the gear system wouldn't be either.

 

come on man, yes this is a big change and it could work, BUT NOT THE WAY IT IS ATM. :D:D

[ZillaElite]

you and me both. counting the backrolled 4, ZERO upgrade in 39 crates. like...... WHAT DA ****. how is this better than 4.0 ops gear drops? or even 3.0? and how the hell can this be any kind of fair? like i'm sorry, but no i do not see anything GOOD or FAIR, or INCLUSIVE about this Kind of **** RNG

 

You speak the truth!

[Hichitsuki-hime]

lol kiddo

 

Your "argument" is especially funny when it comes from you.

Becouse it can be applyed to YOU.

 

Just like you said...

 

Your personal experience does NOT translate into truth

 

you tell him Kingz, you tell him man. love u. :D:D:D

[gabigool]

Not at all. Newcomers are guaranteed gear as long as they play, whereas they never had an opportunity to get top tier gear previously due to not being in raid groups and no one willing to help them.

 

Pre 5.0, ANYONE that wanted quality gear could have it. Anyone. Literally there was nothing stopping anyone in the game from having BiS PvP gear. Nothing from stopping anyone from having BiS PvE gear.

 

You're making unfounded generalizations. Show me someone that couldn't get BiS and I'll show you someone that simply did not want to.

[Jadescythe]

come on man, yes this is a big change and it could work, BUT NOT THE WAY IT IS ATM. :D:D

 

I've said as much numerous times. But this line of thinking that you have to get gear from raids needs to go. It's an option and it works in WoW, but is not the only option and certainly isn't ideal for a game like SWTOR with a miniscule raid community and no new raids to speak of.

[Aowin]

yeah, u know very well doing raids that have been out for 2 years (just in case of rav and tos ) is not progression no matter how u look at it.

how is this system inclusive exactly? nothing has changed in how people play. just instead of doing what they like they're forced to do what give most CXP which is PvP.

 

No one forces you to do PvP, just like no one forced you to grind gold mobs. Everything is a choice. You play the game the way you want to play the game. You can only blame yourself if you are miserable because you don't like PvP.