dacinuiFL Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Come on...COME ON BIOWARE. You keep murdering us slowly inside with these choices...WHY. The look on vette as her neck was broken...oh dear god. Instantly quit and redone it with torian,I FEEL THE SAME WAY AS I DID WITH VETTE. You're giving us scars...very bad scars bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcharas Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Insert renegade Shepard (female trooper) voice: This is war, people die. Get used to it. Jokes aside, I had expected my associates to be more professional. A mandalorian soldier is a more valuable asset than a hapless underling. Lt. Alenko gave his life in honorable combat. In his last stand he defended a strategic objective against insurmountable hostile opposition and allowed his unit to successfully complete their mission exfiltrating allied forces under heavy fire. Officially, the operation was never acknowledged, but both Alliance and Salarian Special Forces will remember his sacrifice. Vette, being the weak-minded Twi'Lek Slave she is, dishonorably surrendered and was awarded the death of a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacinuiFL Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 My logic was > vette was pretty nifty,she was usefull before she,will be in the future. Torian on the other hand,he was just a mandalorian ,he can be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 My logic was > vette was pretty nifty,she was usefull before she,will be in the future. Torian on the other hand,he was just a mandalorian ,he can be replaced. Pretty much this. He's a soldier, he knows what's up and the risks involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsedar Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 With my LS/redeemed JK (started as ds) i decided to save Vette, when you compare them both, vette is more like an "innocent" cuaght in the crossfire, she doesnt seem ready to die (nor do i think she will ever be), but Torian....Torian is a freaking mando, he was born to die in a fight against impossible odds, but... i actually felt bad at seeing him die that way, he should´ve never let Vailyn capture him alive because in the end he died on his knees... but i guess i can content with seeing him defy vailyn till the end and not asking for mercy nor help from our PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcharas Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) Just replayed the chapter and saved Vette as a reference. Although Vette signed up for this and knew the risks just as Torian did, a true mandalorian dies on the battlefield and I'm glad he did not plea for help after capturing and - as stated above - defied Vaylin until the end. However, Torian surrendering to zakuulean forces itself is a major affront. As expected, he accepts his fate. Instead of Vette's panicked "Wait, you are abonding me?" followed by great disapproval, Torian only regularly disapproves for being left to die. Which doesn't make sense in my opinion. While I see him as the more valuable asset, Torian himself ought to view saving the civilian as the right decision (unless she is regarded as a non-lawful combatant / terrorist - which makes sense somehow, since she wears civilian drab and a missile launcher). After all, you are offering him everything a mandalorian can ask for: death in honorable combat. The last dialogue on the comm feels just wrong. It should rather be something like "Torian Cadera, the Alliance will always remember your sacrifice. Give 'em hell." - "Thank you, Commander. It has been an honor serving with you." - "Victory or death." - "For Mandalore!" [cut transmission]. Later, after saving Vette, have your party head to Torians location and then trigger a nice little cutscene showing his last stand, holding his ground until Vaylin arrives. Have Torian target her with some heavy ordinance, let her sweep it aside by the force and choke him to death. Just give Torian the mandalorian death he deserves. Edited December 3, 2016 by lcharas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fovzwk Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) However, Torian surrendering to zakuulean forces itself is a major affront. Is there any indication that either Torian or Vetter surrendered? I mean, It's Vaylin who comes after them. She is entirely capable of simply slapping them both around with the force until they are just physically unable to fight back. She does the same to Lana in chapter 3. Edited December 3, 2016 by fovzwk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 My Jedi Knight weighed the two, and I needed Torian for his link to the Mandalorians. I need those warriors working with or for me. Vette, while losing her was painful, IMHO she was the most expendable of the two has I also have 3 other people who can do the EXACT SAME THINGS SHE CAN. I mean don't get me wrong I love Vette, and she has a great story, but in the end, she was expendable. I need warriors like Torian who will follow me in to the gates of hell without thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsedar Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Is there any indication that either Torian or Vetter surrendered? I mean, It's Vaylin who comes after them. She is entirely capable of simply slapping them both around with the force until they are just physically unable to fight back. She does the same to Lana in chapter 3. I dont know about vette, but torian literally surrenders to the encroaching forces, what i dont remember is if he did it when he saw vailyn coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) My choice was easy. My Vette had 50 inf and had been my SW's companion since Korriban, versus... 15 inf Bieber (in all seriousness, I always really liked Torian's character, especially in the BH storyline, and this was a gutwrenching one for me. My chief complaint is the subsequent dialogue was not harsh enough.) Edited December 4, 2016 by stoopicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanaussie Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Just replayed the chapter and saved Vette as a reference. Although Vette signed up for this and knew the risks just as Torian did, a true mandalorian dies on the battlefield and I'm glad he did not plea for help after capturing and - as stated above - defied Vaylin until the end. However, Torian surrendering to zakuulean forces itself is a major affront. As expected, he accepts his fate. Instead of Vette's panicked "Wait, you are abonding me?" followed by great disapproval, Torian only regularly disapproves for being left to die. Which doesn't make sense in my opinion. While I see him as the more valuable asset, Torian himself ought to view saving the civilian as the right decision (unless she is regarded as a non-lawful combatant / terrorist - which makes sense somehow, since she wears civilian drab and a missile launcher). After all, you are offering him everything a mandalorian can ask for: death in honorable combat. The last dialogue on the comm feels just wrong. It should rather be something like "Torian Cadera, the Alliance will always remember your sacrifice. Give 'em hell." - "Thank you, Commander. It has been an honor serving with you." - "Victory or death." - "For Mandalore!" [cut transmission]. Later, after saving Vette, have your party head to Torians location and then trigger a nice little cutscene showing his last stand, holding his ground until Vaylin arrives. Have Torian target her with some heavy ordinance, let her sweep it aside by the force and choke him to death. Just give Torian the mandalorian death he deserves. Yea. He messages you after to confess that despite his beliefs that he really didn't want to die and he is grateful you chose to save him. He dedicates himself more to you and will make each day he lives in honour of Vette. Maybe living with the outlander has changed his views. We all can speak a big line but when it comes down to the line...I think he was afraid about death. I don't think he willfully surrendered. Vaylin needed someone to lure us out in her mind. She could easily prevent a suicide take em all out blast with her force capabilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanaussie Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Or as I suspect our LIs go on to have a romance with our characters of that class even on our other toons. It's possible he didn't want to die because the BH he served went missing (us on BH in kotfe) and maybe he romanced said BH and wanted to find out what happened to them. If you read his bio it tells the BH story but with the BH still missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) "Oh crap, we accidentally gave back two LI companions. Quick, kill one." Edited December 4, 2016 by stoopicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Just replayed the chapter and saved Vette as a reference. Although Vette signed up for this and knew the risks just as Torian did, a true mandalorian dies on the battlefield and I'm glad he did not plea for help after capturing and - as stated above - defied Vaylin until the end. However, Torian surrendering to zakuulean forces itself is a major affront. As expected, he accepts his fate. Instead of Vette's panicked "Wait, you are abonding me?" followed by great disapproval, Torian only regularly disapproves for being left to die. Which doesn't make sense in my opinion. While I see him as the more valuable asset, Torian himself ought to view saving the civilian as the right decision (unless she is regarded as a non-lawful combatant / terrorist - which makes sense somehow, since she wears civilian drab and a missile launcher). After all, you are offering him everything a mandalorian can ask for: death in honorable combat. The last dialogue on the comm feels just wrong. It should rather be something like "Torian Cadera, the Alliance will always remember your sacrifice. Give 'em hell." - "Thank you, Commander. It has been an honor serving with you." - "Victory or death." - "For Mandalore!" [cut transmission]. Later, after saving Vette, have your party head to Torians location and then trigger a nice little cutscene showing his last stand, holding his ground until Vaylin arrives. Have Torian target her with some heavy ordinance, let her sweep it aside by the force and choke him to death. Just give Torian the mandalorian death he deserves. While it's not 100% when you have to choose, that the other will in fact die (story wise, I think we players knew) I think it's fair that even a Mando will give a little displeasure to being left behind/put into second place. Hell, I'd argue there aren't many Mando's who actually live to the code anyways. The Hunter storyline shows that. Great targets? They'll kill anyone with a price on their head. They don't go for great challenges at all. However, when people say Torian is the one to save because of the Mando's, I'd disagree and point to Shae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazeTomahawk Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 My logic was > vette was pretty nifty,she was usefull before she,will be in the future. Torian on the other hand,he was just a mandalorian ,he can be replaced. This right here was my thinking. The alliance needs a ****** soldier for a mission? Too bad I let Torian die. Oh wait, I'll send Jorgan. Oh I killed Jorgan? Better send Rusk. I killed Rusk too? Wow I'm killing all my soldiers, and I had so many of them... The alliance needs to sneak behind enemy lines, disable the complex shields and reprogram the enemies artillery? Too bad I let Vette die, oh wait I'll send....who? Kaliyo? Only if I want to cause a distraction instead of a sneaky mission. Oh wait, I killed Kaliyo. Better send.... Nobody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcharas Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 This right here was my thinking. The alliance needs a ****** soldier for a mission? Too bad I let Torian die. Oh wait, I'll send Jorgan. Oh I killed Jorgan? Better send Rusk. I killed Rusk too? Wow I'm killing all my soldiers, and I had so many of them... The alliance needs to sneak behind enemy lines, disable the complex shields and reprogram the enemies artillery? Too bad I let Vette die, oh wait I'll send....who? Kaliyo? Only if I want to cause a distraction instead of a sneaky mission. Oh wait, I killed Kaliyo. Better send.... Nobody? Or Lokin, Gault, T7, Blizz, Yuun, both protocol droids, both HK units... The list goes on. I never said Torian couldn't be replaced, but while the Alliance needs as much firepower as it can get, it only needs a few specialists like Vette. Lost Tali? Take Kasumi. Lost Kasumi? Use Legion. Lost Legion too? Well, Thane will probably get it done somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I think they just did this for the hell of it. I had two people with me. Why couldn't I have sent one of them to help Vette/Torian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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