Merc super cancer 5.0!!!!!!

[Thaladan]

yeah mando was hard before...

 

just for fun : spam grav round.

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Thaladan

[gasxero]

Mercs are now healers, tanks, dps and disablers all wrapped into one class.

[Transcendent]

What's your point? DPS gear or not, tanks survived solo against pure dps due to their defense and defensive cooldowns, not their "burst damage". These arguments you people make to justify mercs in their current state are just laughable.

 

Tanks shouldn't be able to survive a pure DPS without a healer. Pure DPS specs shouldn't be taken down by a tank putting out more DPS than the pure DPS spec. Just saying this in passing, don't mind me.

 

Melee DPS should be able to put out more damage than a ranged DPS (by BioWare standards) and have built in defensives that should allow them to take more damage than a ranged DPS, and a Merc going up against a good Mara will find out that this is still the case.

 

Sorcs are ranged DPS and should also lose out to a good melee DPS player, and defensive wise they're not too far off where Merc is right now considering the self heals the class has (although toned down now, which is where Mercs will find themselves soon enough). Snipers are also ranged DPS, however they're meant to be more of a turret spec than Merc or Sorc (and rep counterparts), so defensively they should be in a decent place and the well played ones (and there are some pretty decent ones around) generally tend to do quite well even without self heals. A really good Sniper will put out more damage than most Sorcs or Mercs will.

 

But tanks? They're meant to tank, not to be in any shape or form better than ranged or melee DPS specs. They shouldn't be putting out more damage than a pure DPS spec, they don't require that (not even in PvE due to multipliers for aggro). Get used to this, tanks are meant to guard the healers and pure DPS / taunt and guard nodes. They're not meant to solo kill a damn thing.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Transcendent

[Larzi]

Totally broken. I have a valor 100 merc and mando. Pre 5.0 ranked was tough, yes. But there were not a lot of people I could not solo in regs.

 

Stealth classes, lol. quite literally numerous solo kills per game. the class has been getting small DCD tweeks for some time. This new nonsense is deff over the top.

[RafaelPeretz]

Mercs are more dangerous now, but still **** IMO.

The problem is when they're grouped, like 2 mercs focusing you.

[DariusCalera]

Stopped reading there. In 1.0 when mercs came out they were very strong, even considered OP by many. They were always more than viable for 8v8 ranked the whole time until 2.4. And even when arena's came out they were still viable in group ranked and very strong in regs. Not to mention they were for a long while the best dps in PvE. The only place they had trouble was solo ranked (which is not even real ranked) due to the nature of getting focused.

 

If you want to go for victim status at least get the information about the history of the class right. The only class I can tell was truly screwed was operative dps. Booted out of even node guarding until 2.4, useless in solo ranked, not really viable in group ranked and not even wanted in PvE. The only thing it was consistently good for (since 2.0) was stalling nodes in regs.

 

Mercs and Mandos were considered OP in 1.0 because of the TM/GR bug which counted all stacks of the debuff on the target.

 

BW fixed this bug but also hit mercs and mandos with a big nerf hammer to their dps. Of course, this didn't take into account that people could not seem to be bothered to use their interrupts while that merc or mando was sitting there having to hard cast TM/GR 5 times to get a fully charged HiB or RS.

 

Of course, this is not even counting in 1.0 when they were one of the only classes that did not have an interrupt.

 

As for 8v8, no one took a merc or mando if there was a sniper or slinger available. The latter classes put out more dps and their leap immunity made them far more beneficial.

 

In arenas virtually no one took them because everyone knew that whatever their strengths were, they were easily negated and this can be seen from the rankings from every single season before this one.

 

Now, they did have the best parsing dps spec for operations for a little while in IO but that was one single spec and the rotation was extremely unforgiving with a dot spread mechanic that was the worst of all dot classes. The rotation for this spec was so unforgiving that if you messed up on it even a little bit, you found yourself over heated and unable to perform. But this was single target and an IO merc couldn't target swap effectively in an operation or pvp but people cried and got the spec nerfed.

[Vember]

Tanks shouldn't be able to survive a pure DPS without a healer.

 

Been like this since EQ, dunno why you'd expect it to be any different now. Tanks survive by slowly beating down their opponents and weathering the storm, dps' goal is to kill them fast before they can kill you. Any tank with all defensive cooldowns available should be able to take a dps 1 on 1.

 

But tanks? They shouldn't be putting out more damage than a pure DPS spec

 

They don't.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Vember

[xLordWalkerx]

39 Pages on how OP the mercs are and no response or change, this is funny......

[sithBracer]

Mercs and Mandos were considered OP in 1.0 because of the TM/GR bug which counted all stacks of the debuff on the target.

 

BW fixed this bug but also hit mercs and mandos with a big nerf hammer to their dps. Of course, this didn't take into account that people could not seem to be bothered to use their interrupts while that merc or mando was sitting there having to hard cast TM/GR 5 times to get a fully charged HiB or RS.

 

Of course, this is not even counting in 1.0 when they were one of the only classes that did not have an interrupt.

 

I notice you aren't mentioning they were bad though. Even after the fixes the class was still very strong in 8v8s. Not sure what your point is.

 

As for 8v8, no one took a merc or mando if there was a sniper or slinger available. The latter classes put out more dps and their leap immunity made them far more beneficial.

 

That is not true. If you look back at some of the old ranked videos you will see plenty of mercs/mandos. Dailypvp still has some videos you can check out. Some of them are even from the POV of a mando.

 

In arenas virtually no one took them because everyone knew that whatever their strengths were, they were easily negated and this can be seen from the rankings from every single season before this one.

 

They were still viable for group ranked. I parsed the first, third and fourth season (second was busted) and their numbers (while not super amazing) were fine based on how many people played them. In fact in season 1 their average rating divided by participation was similar to assassins and better than sorcs ... but according to everyone here assassins were OP then because roudy being at the top somehow represented all assassins ... forum logic. I can post the graphs if you want to look at them.

 

If you are referring to solo ranked, well yeah I admit they needed an anti focus tool since the play style didn't go well with a quick 4v4 death match style.

 

Now, they did have the best parsing dps spec for operations for a little while in IO but that was one single spec and the rotation was extremely unforgiving with a dot spread mechanic that was the worst of all dot classes. The rotation for this spec was so unforgiving that if you messed up on it even a little bit, you found yourself over heated and unable to perform. But this was single target and an IO merc couldn't target swap effectively in an operation or pvp but people cried and got the spec nerfed.

 

This is also not true. The highest parsing combo did require a ramp up and more skill than some of the others, it still wasn't hard and was much easier than for example watchman. Also it was from range and mercs were able to avoid some mechanics.

Plus its nice how you aren't mentioning that in 4.X arsenal was buffed and was also among the top parsing specs after IO was nerfed. It did so much damage that even though it was behind IO in the highest parse, the ease of use, strong burst with almost no ramp up, and ability to avoid mechanics made it the best dps class for the 2 NiM ops and the 2 new hm ops.

 

All in all I think you missed the point of my post. The person I was responding to (and some others) seem to be making mercs out to be the whipping boy for the devs since 1.0 and I am simply saying it is not true. While solo ranked was definitely not their forte, mercs were still a decent if not very good class in all other parts of the game.

[Ucrag]

Isn't it interesting they buffed up the commando class (which they didn't need. I did great on mine)....But they didn't buff up his stealth detection field....The only bit we suggested they buff....It needs to be wider...Reminds me of the old joke about skinny people having to run around in the shower to get wet.

They by no means needed anything else....Another class ruined...When there's that little challenge in a match...Why bother....

and what you've done with snipers is appalling...Might as well just have snipers now, they're the most invincible players in the game.

Why in the world is this game still called Star Wars if Jedi are the weakest classes ??

[Larzi]

Yaaaaap, I am canceling the subscription. Paying for this game is straight up paying to be trolled. My last pvp match ever was 6 mercs in huttball and THEN they talked **** about skills.

 

give idiots an inch and they will take a mile.

 

Yes everyone can have all my stuffs.

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

All I wanted is Rocket Out not to suck balls and Kolto Overload to work the way it does now Everything else, I was completely fine with considering our damage output.

 

Sadly, as time has proven, BW is oblivious of the 'middle ground' concept. Doh

[Nezyrworks]

All I wanted is Rocket Out not to suck balls and Kolto Overload to work the way it does now Everything else, I was completely fine with considering our damage output.

 

Sadly, as time has proven, BW is oblivious of the 'middle ground' concept. Doh

 

Then move Responsive Safeguards to PTs and we are both fine

[DariusCalera]

I notice you aren't mentioning they were bad though. Even after the fixes the class was still very strong in 8v8s. Not sure what your point is.

 

Point is people considered them OP in 1.0 because of a bug and not because of anything inherently OP about them. That and people couldn't figure out how to use interrupts.

 

Then, like now, it is a L2P issue.

 

That is not true. If you look back at some of the old ranked videos you will see plenty of mercs/mandos. Dailypvp still has some videos you can check out. Some of them are even from the POV of a mando.

 

It most certainly is true. A lot of those 8v8 ranked videos are from a time when you could still respec while you were waiting for the match to begin. Mercs/mandos were brought along then because, if the team required extra healers depending on the map, they could respec. Once that was fixed teams stopped bringing mercs/mandos along for dps because the sniper/slinger was superior in that role.

 

They were still viable for group ranked. I parsed the first, third and fourth season (second was busted) and their numbers (while not super amazing) were fine based on how many people played them. In fact in season 1 their average rating divided by participation was similar to assassins and better than sorcs ... but according to everyone here assassins were OP then because roudy being at the top somehow represented all assassins ... forum logic. I can post the graphs if you want to look at them.

 

Unfortunately, the leader boards do not give a breakdown by specialization. In arena Season 1 people were still learning what worked well in arenas and what didn't. Fairly certain your graph will show a steep decline in the number of mercs/mandos participating in each season. More so than what one would expect from people leaving the game, switching classes, etc. People learned, fairly quickly, that the class was easily shut down and destroyed unless the team carrying it was willing to work overtime in order to keep the merc/mando alive. The cost/benefit of bringing a merc/mando over another class just was not there.

 

This is also not true. The highest parsing combo did require a ramp up and more skill than some of the others, it still wasn't hard and was much easier than for example watchman. Also it was from range and mercs were able to avoid some mechanics.

Plus its nice how you aren't mentioning that in 4.X arsenal was buffed and was also among the top parsing specs after IO was nerfed. It did so much damage that even though it was behind IO in the highest parse, the ease of use, strong burst with almost no ramp up, and ability to avoid mechanics made it the best dps class for the 2 NiM ops and the 2 new hm ops.

 

The rotation was on par with that of a Watchman and yes, mercs/mandos got to avoid some mechanics but that is not an issue with the class itself. That was on the devs for making so many fights unfriendly to melee. That doesn't mean that the merc/mando classes did not need to attention when it came to survivability in PvP.

 

All in all I think you missed the point of my post. The person I was responding to (and some others) seem to be making mercs out to be the whipping boy for the devs since 1.0 and I am simply saying it is not true. While solo ranked was definitely not their forte, mercs were still a decent if not very good class in all other parts of the game.

 

The classes in question got hit with the nerf hammer hard early on in the games life and are just not starting to recover. Every xpac they would indeed get something new but so would all the other classes. It has taken until now for the class to actually be competitive in ranked on a general level.

 

Is it possible that the devs gave them too much? Maybe.

 

It also possible that the shouts of them being OP are from players that are just mad that their free kills are gone.

[Raynezazki]

All I wanted is Rocket Out not to suck balls and Kolto Overload to work the way it does now Everything else, I was completely fine with considering our damage output.

 

Sadly, as time has proven, BW is oblivious of the 'middle ground' concept. Doh

 

Same that's all I wanted.

 

Rocket out should work like high tail it. That's all I wanted. Maybe give a brief leap immunity. Maybe.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Raynezazki

[ShadessaWayland]

Tanks shouldn't be able to survive a pure DPS without a healer. Pure DPS specs shouldn't be taken down by a tank putting out more DPS than the pure DPS spec. Just saying this in passing, don't mind me.

 

Melee DPS should be able to put out more damage than a ranged DPS (by BioWare standards) and have built in defensives that should allow them to take more damage than a ranged DPS, and a Merc going up against a good Mara will find out that this is still the case.

 

Sorcs are ranged DPS and should also lose out to a good melee DPS player, and defensive wise they're not too far off where Merc is right now considering the self heals the class has (although toned down now, which is where Mercs will find themselves soon enough). Snipers are also ranged DPS, however they're meant to be more of a turret spec than Merc or Sorc (and rep counterparts), so defensively they should be in a decent place and the well played ones (and there are some pretty decent ones around) generally tend to do quite well even without self heals. A really good Sniper will put out more damage than most Sorcs or Mercs will.

 

But tanks? They're meant to tank, not to be in any shape or form better than ranged or melee DPS specs. They shouldn't be putting out more damage than a pure DPS spec, they don't require that (not even in PvE due to multipliers for aggro). Get used to this, tanks are meant to guard the healers and pure DPS / taunt and guard nodes. They're not meant to solo kill a damn thing.

 

agree with you 100%

 

a jugg in tank spec must never be to out dps other classes but BW made them both very high damage reduction and can deal also very high dps and there you have it unstoppable class

 

and yea every1 like that and in wz you all saw jugg walking around how nice

 

and now a merc can ad last after so many years stop that op jugg

 

and what you get now merc to op QQ and more ******** from those players

[Transcendent]

They don't.

 

Well, clearly you didn't play Merc vs Immortal Jugg in 4.0 then. So do try to take this into account now that Mercs can do some damage instead of simply rolling over and playing dead.

[luckylogan]

Here is proof of broken swtor 5.0 pvp due to OP mercenary class. Its fairly typical these days to see half or more of imp teams playing with merc toons. In huttball most of them were parked at our spawn point and ripping us apart. Pubs had zero kills in Alderaan. Not exactly our idea of fun. Needless to say we stopped playing after a couple of matches. And me and a couple of my guildies were not there to farm cxp, I (used to) enjoy pvping on my valor 100 Vanguard.

http://imgur.com/a/mRykU

Edited December 28, 2016 by luckylogan

[DariusCalera]

Here is proof of broken swtor 5.0 pvp due to OP mercenary class. These images are for you Bioware (and Eric Musco who seems to be so out of touch with what is actually happening in-game). In huttball most of them were parked at our spawn point and ripping us apart. Pubs had zero kills in Alderaan. Not exactly our idea of fun. Needless to say we stopped playing after a couple of matches.

http://imgur.com/a/mRykU

 

In huttball:

 

6 jug/guardians can do the same thing.

6 maras/sents can do the same thing.

6 sorc/sages can do the same thing.

6 snipers/slingers can do the same thing.

 

I do believe that there is a pattern emerging here.

 

By looking at the Alderaan screen shot, their healer did, relatively, very little healing and the mercs did very little self healing. So what that tells me is that your team had very little dps.

 

This wasn't a case of mercs/mandos being OP but of your team not knowing what they were doing.

Edited December 28, 2016 by DariusCalera

[luckylogan]

In huttball:

 

6 jug/guardians can do the same thing.

6 maras/sents can do the same thing.

6 sorc/sages can do the same thing.

6 snipers/slingers can do the same thing.

 

I do believe that there is a pattern emerging here.

 

By looking at the Alderaan screen shot, their healer did, relatively, very little healing and the mercs did very little self healing. So what that tells me is that your team had very little dps.

 

This wasn't a case of mercs/mandos being OP but of your team not knowing what they were doing.

 

Please dont be in denial about this. See my edited post, this is fairly typical these days to see merc heavy teams. This needs to be fixed.

Edited December 28, 2016 by luckylogan

[Lhancelot]

See my edited post, this is fairly typical these days to see merc heavy teams.

 

You are right, it is fairly typical these days, meaning often times one team totally outclasses the other by skill. But this proving mercs are OP'd? try again.

 

Another case of someone trying to bend whatever bad situation they have in a match to match their personal bias and agenda against the merc class.

 

Shows one SS of a good team versus a bad team and suddenly the merc class is at fault here. GG bro.

[luckylogan]

You are right, it is fairly typical these days, meaning often times one team totally outclasses the other by skill. But this proving mercs are OP'd? try again.

 

Another case of someone trying to bend whatever bad situation they have in a match to match their personal bias and agenda against the merc class.

 

Shows one SS of a good team versus a bad team and suddenly the merc class is at fault here. GG bro.

 

Deny, deny, deny. No matter, its attitude like this that will finally kill swtor. I know many guildies who have stopped subscribing due to 5.0 or will stop subscribing (including myself).

[DariusCalera]

Please dont be in denial about this. See my edited post, this is fairly typical these days to see merc heavy teams. This needs to be fixed.

 

There is no denial about it. I have seen teams made up of predominately one class farm people at spawn points. This isn't somehting that is unique to mercs/mandos.

 

Or do you think a team consisting of 6 of any class can't do the exact same thing?

 

As for Alderaan, actually take a look at the numbers on the scoreboard you posted. The healer on the other team had about 1.5 million heals which is relatively low these days. The mercs on the other team also had low self healing numbers. Put them both together and it means that your team was not putting out the dps.

 

Did you lose to a team of mostly mercs? Yes you did.

 

Does that have more to do with only 2 of your teammates putting up over 500k damage and not with any perceived OPness of the merc/mando class? Probably. Hell, 3 of them did under 300k and 3 more didn't even break 400k.

 

The issue in that screen shot has nothing to do with how OP the other team was but with how bad yours was.

Edited December 28, 2016 by DariusCalera

[luckylogan]

There is no denial about it. I have seen teams made up of predominately one class farm people at spawn points. This isn't somehting that is unique to mercs/mandos.

 

Or do you think a team consisting of 6 of any class can't do the exact same thing?

 

As for Alderaan, actually take a look at the numbers on the scoreboard you posted. The healer on the other team had about 1.5 million heals which is relatively low these days. The mercs on the other team also had low self healing numbers. Put them both together and it means that your team was not putting out the dps.

 

Did you lose to a team of mostly mercs? Yes you did.

 

Does that have more to do with only 2 of your teammates putting up over 500k damage and not with any perceived OPness of the merc/mando class? Probably. Hell, 3 of them did under 300k and 3 more didn't even break 400k.

 

The issue in that screen shot has nothing to do with how OP the other team was but with how bad yours was.

 

The healer on the other team didnt need to heal as often due to ridiculous Merc self-heals. And the mercs didn't need to self-heal often due to the relatively high dps they are putting out, killing any of us in a few seconds. I have a suggestion, why dont you go try it out for yourself and queue wz on the pub side? Lets see how well you do under the same circumstances. I'd love to see your screenshots against a merc heavy team.

Edited December 28, 2016 by luckylogan

[DariusCalera]

The healer on the other team didnt need to heal as often due to ridiculous Merc self-heals. And the mercs didn't need to self-heal often due to the relatively high dps they are putting out, killing any of us in a few seconds. I have a suggestion, why dont you go try it out for yourself and queue wz on the pub side? Lets see how well you do under the same circumstances. I'd love to see your screenshots against a merc heavy team.

 

If the merc self heals were as ridiculous as you claim it would represented in their self healing numbers. Problem is, it isn't.

 

3 of the mercs had under 100k self healing.

The assassin tank with it's uber self heals managed to out heal 2 of these.

2 of the other mercs had under 200k self healing.

 

Hell, the VG on your team did more self healing that some of the mercs on the other team and the slinger on your team did more self healing than any on the other side barring the 1, possibly 2, healers that they had.

 

The point is, your team was simply not putting out damage. You can blame it on the mercs all you want but at some point, you have to admit that your team was just bad.

 

Either they didn't know their rotations, didn't know how to use dcds, they went lone wolf and tried jumping 3-4 mercs on their own, or a combination of all the above.

 

In the end, it was your team that was just bad.