Why Lord Scourge, Kira, and Revan must return for KOTET.

[Aowin]

When Tenebrae (Vitiate/Valkorion) killed everyone on Mediaas (Nathema), the force was also stripped from the dead world. So how can a force apparition of Revan even exist on that world just for storyline sake? It is unlikely Tenebrae would allow it and without that there is no force connection on the planet. any force user going there is going to be cut off from the force until they leave the planet.

 

Scourge i can imagine will return, he knows more about the emperor than most, even more than revan may know and while Kira is a prepared vessel for the emperor, she doesn't really know much about the emperor anyway so on that i can't imagine her return is even a strong priority.

 

I'd suggest watching the Producer Live Stream. Charles addresses this directly saying that enough time has passed that the Force can be felt again on Nathema. However, a void has been left leading to a very unpleasant and disturbing experience for Force users.

 

I wouldn't be so sure Scourge knows more about Valkorion than Revan. For one, Revan has known him longer as Revan and Malak confronted him and then were seduced by the Dark Side. You also have to remember from the Revan book that while Valkorion was influencing Revan's mind, Revan was also influencing Valkorion's mind.

 

My point with Kira is that the Outlander clearly is tied to Valkorion. Kira was tied to Valkorion and she severed that tie. If anyone could help break Valkorion's domination, it would be Kira. She was raised to be his vessel should he ever need her body after all.

[Aowin]

I don't think the "Old ally" is in reference to Scourge or Kira. Judging by what Charles said, our old traditional companions (those who're yet to return) will not be coming back during KOTET CH1-CH9. More likely a blast from the past NPC who some or most of us have worked with but who was never an actual companion.

 

That's not exactly what he said. What Charles did state is that more companions were planned to return for KOTET, but due to feedback from KOTFE those plans were scrapped. It's still very much implied that some companions will be returning, just not all of them. Whether that "old ally" is in reference to Scourge, Kira, or somebody else entirely is anybody's guess. I'm just stating they have the most relevance to the story and I can't imagine who would be more appropriate.

[Aowin]

What bugs me about him eating Ziost is that there was no indication whatsoever of how painful it should have been for Force Users to go back down there afterwards. It should have been like on Nathema where the dead planet's emptiness is trying to suck the Force out of you to try to regain some spark of life.

But there was nothing. No debuff, no suddenly doubling over in pain (like when the Rakghoul Plague makes you cough). Not even a line of dialogue about how awful post-apocalypse Ziost felt for Force Users.

 

If Nathema isn't excruciating painful for our characters when we get there, then there had better be an airtight explanation.

 

I think this was an oversight. We had a detailed account in the Revan book about how unpleasant an uneasy Revan and Scourge felt on Nathema. Ziost suffered a similar fate and yet there were no aftereffects.

 

We already know that due to the passage of time the Force can be somewhat felt on Nathema. Charles also stated, although didn't claim to be true, that Valkorion's influence on the Outlander might serve him/her in wielding the Force more easily on Nathema. It is a dead planet, but as Charles stated, life has begun to return to it slowly.

[Ralei]

That's not exactly what he said. What Charles did state is that more companions were planned to return for KOTET, but due to feedback from KOTFE those plans were scrapped. It's still very much implied that some companions will be returning, just not all of them. Whether that "old ally" is in reference to Scourge, Kira, or somebody else entirely is anybody's guess. I'm just stating they have the most relevance to the story and I can't imagine who would be more appropriate.

 

Yep, that's what I got out of it, as well.

 

I do have to say his comment about people not liking Kotfe because of the "filler" companion stories rang hollow for me. The were enough problems with the core story to be disappointed in it without using that as an excuse. And some of the chapters without any companions at all were the most boring for me, such as the one with Satele and Marr. Ughhhgg.

 

I do think their mistake was saving the "best" companions for last, and that's why people didn't care about many of the ones they brought back this time. I think they learned the wrong lesson from that. If companions like Scourge, Kira, Quinn, and Jaesa had come back, would anyone have complained about them being filler? No way.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Ralei

[kirorx]

Scourge and Kira, yes. Revan? Heck no

 

I could dig a descendent of Bao'dur or even a force ghost visit by old Jolee Bindo. I don't mind more Kotor references since that is after all, what this based off of.

 

Speaking of Kotor, maybe we can get Dantooine. There have been so many references to that planet by NPCs.

 

Imagine a dantooine stronghold that was large like the Yavin one and had the old Jedi temple from KOTOR with a stretch of land similar to Kotor also...

[Celise]

I'd suggest watching the Producer Live Stream. Charles addresses this directly saying that enough time has passed that the Force can be felt again on Nathema. However, a void has been left leading to a very unpleasant and disturbing experience for Force users.

 

I wouldn't be so sure Scourge knows more about Valkorion than Revan. For one, Revan has known him longer as Revan and Malak confronted him and then were seduced by the Dark Side. You also have to remember from the Revan book that while Valkorion was influencing Revan's mind, Revan was also influencing Valkorion's mind.

 

My point with Kira is that the Outlander clearly is tied to Valkorion. Kira was tied to Valkorion and she severed that tie. If anyone could help break Valkorion's domination, it would be Kira. She was raised to be his vessel should he ever need her body after all.

 

i know what was said, but then again i know the force was stripped from that dead world. and it was also stated that you can get a sense of the force through valkorion. and the void is artifical that force users find unsettling.

 

scourge has been around several hundred years, he has been with the emperor for much of that time, learning so much from the way he conducts his affairs, his powers. Revan only knows how strong the emperor is through the force, he does not know the full extent of the emperor, his plans and such. only scourge would know that being the former emperors wrath for most of his time.

 

Kira is tied to the emperor yes, but she only knows that she is a vessel for the emperor at a young age, she doesn't know what the emperor has planned and judging by the jk storyline, she doesn't really want to know. as for breaking the connection between herself and the emperor, you forget master surro on ziost? she did the same and she was a much more powerful being and that is ignoring the obvious power vitiate had over everyone else as well. Kira wouldn't stand a chance if Valkorion really wanted to impose his will on Kira again. He more than likely left her alone to see what she would do. knowing the emperor's motivations at this point? we don't know much.

[Ralei]

Scourge and Kira, yes. Revan? Heck no

 

I could dig a descendent of Bao'dur or even a force ghost visit by old Jolee Bindo. I don't mind more Kotor references since that is after all, what this based off of.

 

Speaking of Kotor, maybe we can get Dantooine. There have been so many references to that planet by NPCs.

 

Imagine a dantooine stronghold that was large like the Yavin one and had the old Jedi temple from KOTOR with a stretch of land similar to Kotor also...

 

Oh man Bao'dur's descendants would be awesome! Sounds much more interesting than more Revan.

[SithKoriandr]

Wait a minute! People complained about companions returning in KotFE? Only complaints I ever heard about companions returning was "These aren't the ones I want back" and "Alerts suck"

 

While people may not have cared for the chapters stories, I never heard complaints about "I got Jorgan, Torian, Kaliyo back in a lousy chapter."

[Aowin]

Yep, that's what I got out of it, as well.

 

I do have to say his comment about people not liking Kotfe because of the "filler" companion stories rang hollow for me. The were enough problems with the core story to be disappointed in it without using that as an excuse. And some of the chapters without any companions at all were the most boring for me, such as the one with Satele and Marr. Ughhhgg.

 

I do think their mistake was saving the "best" companions for last, and that's why people didn't care about many of the ones they brought back this time. I think they learned the wrong lesson from that. If companions like Scourge, Kira, Quinn, and Jaesa had come back, would anyone have complained about them being filler? No way.

 

I agree. I didn't see the companion chapters as necessarily "filler." BioWare just happened to bring back a lot of class companions that not everybody necessarily cared about. I was never a huge fan of Kaliyo. Aric was more of a pain in my rear than anything else. I never really cared for Gault either and Vette was just an okay companion in my eyes. Torian is another throwaway for me.

 

The other issue besides just bringing back some of the less popular companions is the fact that much of the story they were involved in just wasn't that compelling. Much of what we did in the chapters after IX amounted to nothing and so for many it just came across as a waste of time. I think bringing back more popular companions and integrating them more naturally into the story would go a long way to fix the issues KOTFE suffered.

[CloudCastle]

I do have to say his comment about people not liking Kotfe because of the "filler" companion stories rang hollow for me. The were enough problems with the core story to be disappointed in it without using that as an excuse. And some of the chapters without any companions at all were the most boring for me, such as the one with Satele and Marr. Ughhhgg.

 

I do think their mistake was saving the "best" companions for last, and that's why people didn't care about many of the ones they brought back this time. I think they learned the wrong lesson from that. If companions like Scourge, Kira, Quinn, and Jaesa had come back, would anyone have complained about them being filler? No way.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy that excuse really. It sounds very much like someone crossing their arms and going "Humph! You didn't like my companion chapters? Fine! No companions for you then!" (I actually didn't watch the stream, so I'm sure his attitude wasn't like this, but that's what I "hear" in the sentiment.)

 

Surely BW is aware that a large number of people have been eagerly awaiting getting their missing companions back, and to equate a dissatisfaction with those chapters to, "I guess they didn't want them back after all" is silly. Hopefully his comment was just poorly worded. The real issue is that some of the companion chapters felt forced when their ties to the main story were so thin. The solution is to better integrate the companions into the story, rather than to give up entirely. Honestly though, I suspect there is actually another reason why KOTET was cut short and more companions won't be returning.

 

I'm kind of at a loss as to why Scorpio was chosen to play such a prominent role in the story, while Scourge was left out. I doubt he is the "old ally" since there are 7 classes who have never met him and who would have no prior "ally" relationship with him to begin with.

[Aowin]

Scourge and Kira, yes. Revan? Heck no

 

I could dig a descendent of Bao'dur or even a force ghost visit by old Jolee Bindo. I don't mind more Kotor references since that is after all, what this based off of.

 

Speaking of Kotor, maybe we can get Dantooine. There have been so many references to that planet by NPCs.

 

Imagine a dantooine stronghold that was large like the Yavin one and had the old Jedi temple from KOTOR with a stretch of land similar to Kotor also...

 

Dantooine isn't really notable for anything beyond the destroyed Jedi Enclave from KotOR 1. Otherwise, it's just farmland, wildlife, and some crystal caves.

 

I'm all for more KotOR references, but again Revan's inclusion is a logical one and not merely for fan service. Revan's involvement in SOR was nothing but fan service because it didn't make sense. Revan going back to Nathema, however, makes a lot of sense and shouldn't just be disregarded because BioWare has used the character poorly in the past.

[peter_plankskull]

If Revan appears again, it's fan service, stop denying it. His entire appearance and arc was fan service, please... just... just let him rest. He's had a hard and taxing life, let him enjoy his time with clarify in the force.

[Aowin]

i know what was said, but then again i know the force was stripped from that dead world. and it was also stated that you can get a sense of the force through valkorion. and the void is artifical that force users find unsettling.

 

scourge has been around several hundred years, he has been with the emperor for much of that time, learning so much from the way he conducts his affairs, his powers. Revan only knows how strong the emperor is through the force, he does not know the full extent of the emperor, his plans and such. only scourge would know that being the former emperors wrath for most of his time.

 

Kira is tied to the emperor yes, but she only knows that she is a vessel for the emperor at a young age, she doesn't know what the emperor has planned and judging by the jk storyline, she doesn't really want to know. as for breaking the connection between herself and the emperor, you forget master surro on ziost? she did the same and she was a much more powerful being and that is ignoring the obvious power vitiate had over everyone else as well. Kira wouldn't stand a chance if Valkorion really wanted to impose his will on Kira again. He more than likely left her alone to see what she would do. knowing the emperor's motivations at this point? we don't know much.

 

Charles never actually confirmed that the Outlander could use the Force because of Valkorion's powers. He merely suggested that would be a reasonable explanation. Again, it's very likely all of your force user companions will be able to wield the Force on Nathema. Clearly, they do not have the influence of Valkorion so what explanation is there other than the Force is slowly returning to the dead planet?

 

Incorrect. After Vitiate defeated Revan, Meetra, and Scourge, Revan was placed in a stasis field where Valkorion could dominate his mind for centuries. This is what SWTOR referred to as the Maelstrom Prison. For all of this time Valkorion was in Revan's mind, but Revan was also in Valkorion's mind. This is how Revan was able to influence Valkorion and prevent him from attacking the Republic for 300 years. It's very likely Revan would know more about Vitiate just because he was in his mind. Scourge merely took orders from Vitiate. All of this information comes from the Revan book.

 

Master Surro didn't really break Vitiate's domination like Kira did. If you remember from Ziost, Surro was still very mentally broken from the ordeal. She was not the same individual. Vitiate ravaged her mind and I think it was more of the player character weakening Vitiate that Surro was able to regain control. It didn't come across that Surro really broke Vitiate's domination though.

 

If your point about Kira is true and Valkorion just let her go, then it seems it would make even more sense that she would return as his pawn.

[Aowin]

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy that excuse really. It sounds very much like someone crossing their arms and going "Humph! You didn't like my companion chapters? Fine! No companions for you then!" (I actually didn't watch the stream, so I'm sure his attitude wasn't like this, but that's what I "hear" in the sentiment.)

 

Surely BW is aware that a large number of people have been eagerly awaiting getting their missing companions back, and to equate a dissatisfaction with those chapters to, "I guess they didn't want them back after all" is silly. Hopefully his comment was just poorly worded. The real issue is that some of the companion chapters felt forced when their ties to the main story were so thin. The solution is to better integrate the companions into the story, rather than to give up entirely. Honestly though, I suspect there is actually another reason why KOTET was cut short and more companions won't be returning.

 

I'm kind of at a loss as to why Scorpio was chosen to play such a prominent role in the story, while Scourge was left out. I doubt he is the "old ally" since there are 7 classes who have never met him and who would have no prior "ally" relationship with him to begin with.

 

I think the main issue with the companion chapters in KOTFE was due to the fact the class companions were thrown in haphazardly and the plot didn't really move forward as a result. Really, there was just a lot of sitting around and occasionally the Outlander would go out and do something. I don't think it helped that the companions that were brought back also happened to be some of the less popular choices.

 

We'll have to see how many companions return with KOTFE, but I think many of these issues could have just been resolved with a more cohesive story and a more natural inclusion of these companions. I do think the returning companions will only get better as BioWare did essentially save the best for last.

 

I really didn't understand the SCORPIO emphasis in KOTFE. Now it makes more sense because her existence, the eternal fleet, and the gravestone all seem to be created by the same civilization. I'm just going to say the obvious right now: they are all products of the Infinite Empire. Given that SCORPIO was found on Belsavis, a world that was used by the Rakata for experiments, I fully believe all of this technology comes from the Rakata. This especially rings true as Valkorion even admits all of this technology predates his existence.

[Rrusalka]

Wait a minute! People complained about companions returning in KotFE? Only complaints I ever heard about companions returning was "These aren't the ones I want back" and "Alerts suck"

 

While people may not have cared for the chapters stories, I never heard complaints about "I got Jorgan, Torian, Kaliyo back in a lousy chapter."

 

Exactly the companions returning were the only high points of my operatives play through. Proves that guile and cunning can even take out force users. KotFE is now the chosen force user. /facepalm

[Alec_Fortescue]

I'm pretty sure that Scourge's absence has nothing to do with the actor. He recently did some work for the new STO expansion. :/

[CorellianWannabe]

Shadow of Revan was a mistake. It didn't make any sense and in many ways it ruined the Revan character. That being said, going to Nathema is intrinsically tied to Revan as he has a history with this planet. He has been to it more than once and Revan absolutely needs a role to tie up these loose ends. I'm not suggesting the entire story needs to be about Revan. What I am stating is he needs some involvement as does Scourge and Kira.

 

There was no character to ruin. Revan was a cipher for the player, at least until EA decided to 'canonize' Revan as another straight white male.

 

What did players know about Revan? Allegedly 'brilliant' strategist who the 'heroic' Jedi captured, mindwiped, and implanted with a hopefully more compliant personality. Beyond that the Revan character was created through players' actions, not by what some hack writer chose to splash onto yet another Star Wars novel.

Edited November 18, 2016 by CorellianWannabe

[romercen]

only reason comp chapters were filler is becuse they were mostly new comps

not the ones we had for a long time

so my mom says it gets old and having to do the same chapters on every char would get REALLY OLD

so she just dont do it

[commanderwar]

only reason comp chapters were filler is becuse they were mostly new comps

not the ones we had for a long time

so my mom says it gets old and having to do the same chapters on every char would get REALLY OLD

so she just dont do it

 

No the comp chapter 10,11,13,14 were all old comps none were new

[Rrusalka]

How about the fact that it has been over a year since KotFE. There has not been a single character customization for the companions they specially created for this content. Outside of HK who piggy backs on the old HK customization's.

 

They changed the way new companions worked and then they abandoned that system as well. I expect the DvL comp and Shae to be the same. I also don't expect them to bring any more companions back unless they see a way to hold subs with it.

[Aowin]

There was no character to ruin. Revan was a cipher for the player, at least until EA decided to 'canonize' Revan as another straight white male.

 

What did players know about Revan? Allegedly 'brilliant' strategist who the 'heroic' Jedi captured, mindwiped, and implanted with a hopefully more compliant personality. Beyond that the Revan character was created through players' actions, not by what some hack writer chose to splash onto yet another Star Wars novel.

 

You obviously don't know anything about the Revan character. He started in KotOR, but he expanded far beyond that in KotOR 2 and other mediums. Your comments reflect someone that knows very little about the Old Republic Era and how fleshed out it actually is.

 

That "hack writer," his name is Drew Karpyshyn, created Revan as well as the story for KotOR 1, so I think he has a bit more credibility when handling the character than your perceived understanding of Revan.

[Aowin]

How about the fact that it has been over a year since KotFE. There has not been a single character customization for the companions they specially created for this content. Outside of HK who piggy backs on the old HK customization's.

 

They changed the way new companions worked and then they abandoned that system as well. I expect the DvL comp and Shae to be the same. I also don't expect them to bring any more companions back unless they see a way to hold subs with it.

 

Did BioWare ever promise character customization options for KOTFE companions? To my knowledge, that was never planned and I don't think it will ever happen. The KOTFE characters have unique faces and far more detail than any of the class companions. Most of the class companion looks can be replicated in character creator.

 

Folks clearly want their class companions to return. BioWare knows it and anyone playing SWTOR knows it. The question is what is the best means of reintroducing those characters into the game. BioWare admittedly had mixed results with KOTFE, so they are reassessing how they bring these characters back.

 

As Charles already stated, BioWare wants to do this right. Especially with the love interests, they don't just want to haphazardly throw the companions all in one bundle and really lead to an experience that isn't satisfying. No one wants to wait years for their companions to return, but BioWare clearly is aware that it's an issue they want to resolve.

[_Kaiden_]

I agree with the OP on this subject this is the perfect place to reintroduce Kira, Lord Scourge and Force Ghost of Revan . . . To anyone who knows Star Wars Lore after a Jedi learns to commune with a Force ghost they can appear at any given time, and as we all know Revan was truly a Force ghost after S.O.R. expansion, therefore Revan could return in that aspect and speak to the Player Character. . . and this is the perfect time for him to appear to our P.C.

[Aowin]

I agree with the OP on this subject this is the perfect place to reintroduce Kira, Lord Scourge and Force Ghost of Revan . . . To anyone who knows Star Wars Lore after a Jedi learns to commune with a Force ghost they can appear at any given time, and as we all know Revan was truly a Force ghost after S.O.R. expansion, therefore Revan could return in that aspect and speak to the Player Character. . . and this is the perfect time for him to appear to our P.C.

 

Thank you. Someone who understands the established canon and why it actually makes sense for Revan to be in the story. So many are turned off by the idea of Revan appearing again that they won't even consider why it makes sense and would enhance the story. Folks need to get outside of their close-minded boxes and realize, unlike SOR, Revan's inclusion in KOTET is entirely warranted and should happen.

 

I expect Scourge to be in KOTET. I hope Kira is in KOTET. Revan is a question mark, but his remarks at the end of SOR alluded to the fact his role in the galaxy may not be over yet.

[Rrusalka]

Did BioWare ever promise character customization options for KOTFE companions? To my knowledge, that was never planned and I don't think it will ever happen. The KOTFE characters have unique faces and far more detail than any of the class companions. Most of the class companion looks can be replicated in character creator.

 

It's true I have no promises from them that they would customize these companions. But if they redid the system going forward. Why did they leave customization slots on each of these characters?

 

I guess it doesn't matter in the end. Outside of the other classes companions I have picked up I don't use the KotFE ones at all unless they are forced upon me. The others who I can change around so we don't have a clone army running loose get much more love from me.