40k repair costs per wipe in 5.0

[Deaconik]

don't think I have had a wipe in a SM ... since 4.0... and if your doing Hm or NiM you can afford a repair bill.

 

But I've always thought the Dev's own the credit selling companies...

 

You are not doing pug groups enough I say. I had several wipes with PUG even in SM.

[Jerba]

You are not doing pug groups enough I say. I had several wipes with PUG even in SM.

^ Agreed. My highlight was Sparky enraging at 40% in SM but guildies have seen even worse. I left the group after that so I don't know if they had more wipes or just disbanded.

 

When you run only with your guild, you won't notice how bad the average player skill has become. Therefore, I try to join many PuGs and teach those players how to improve (though in the case of the Sparky run, there's not much you can do). If we don't teach the new players in SM/HM PuGs or groupfinder flashpoints, there won't be any players left when you are recruiting new players.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Jerba

[Gwena]

Legendary gear? Ouch. Not long after launch, I used to group up with my guild for Ops and HM FP's every week, and I remember feeling obligated to do dailies every week so I wouldn't be broke 'cause repairs were so pricey (mind you, we were pretty mediocre players, no farming for us, just slow progress and a lot of wipes).

 

High repair bills also sound like an excellent way to discourage PUG's and teaching newbies, and encourage anger and arguments in groups that are having difficulty! >.<

Edited November 13, 2016 by Gwena

[DaZeeZee]

Yawn. this is why hardcore raids fail. ESPECIALLY when gear has these BS repair costs which punish you for wiping and trying to learn a new boss.

[Deaconik]

Yawn. this is why hardcore raids fail. ESPECIALLY when gear has these BS repair costs which punish you for wiping and trying to learn a new boss.

 

No, HC raiders will do. There's no new boss so you are not learning anything. For the past 2 years there hasn't been new boss even announced. But many of these players join PUG(even in SM) just for the fun. Because why not, ez mode. And that comes with wipes, becaue many times PUG doesn't know what to do. And after that comes the explanation and retry. Not in 5.0 as after the first wipe many raiders will save money for the guild run and for actual hard content(once the RNG gives them the gear for it).

 

If anything will provide HC raiders reason to quit, it's the fact they need to farm crates for random loot to do the hard content again(NIM/HM).

[Threjyan]

Ehm, that's pretty normal. Like it took us 9 months to kill Revan (with only 1 raid per week, and some weeks we had no raid). In WoW, the top guilds need like 300 wipes on some Mythic bosses; other guilds need even more wipes.

Progression is when you have never killed a boss before and wipe over and over, making small progress until you kill the boss. Even if it's just 1% better or you use a different strategy. And then you have setbacks because of a bad raid night or you have to replace someone. But eventually you can kill the boss, unless you are severely lacking DPS.

 

When you can clear a raid with only 3-5 wipes, it's not progression, it's farm. Like now that we know how to kill Revan, we have ToS on farm and can get through without a lot of wipes. Same as with the nightmare bosses; we did progression when they first came out and now it's only a matter of remembering our old strategies.

We are not the best group out there, I know other guilds cleared Revan much faster, but I also know guilds on my server that still haven't killed him, in fact they were wiping on him again this week because they want to kill him before 5.0. But I'm pretty happy that we are not as fast in progression; that way we at least have a motivation to continue to raid and are not bored llke the top guilds that have already quit the game.

 

i know what progression is, but according to your calculations, 10x wiping per hour, means u will do attempts, of 6minutes on each op boss - ofc in the obvious case of Revan u can spam rez, and u will be transported imidiatly to the fight, but i stand my case: if u wipe like this, one should rethink his gameplay. i believe repair costs will be higher then in 4.0, which is natural, but it wont certainly be a lot of a money sink.

 

also if i take your words literaly, and some of player raid 4 to 5 days a week, it means accorcing to your numbers: 40 wipes per nite, and 120 per week? i mean..i know game is hard

 

no.i dont think, realistic, these repair costs, if they mantain, will be prohibitive for progression groups - no progression group wipe at that rate.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Threjyan

[lcharas]

No, HC raiders will do. There's no new boss so you are not learning anything. For the past 2 years there hasn't been new boss even announced. But many of these players join PUG(even in SM) just for the fun. Because why not, ez mode. And that comes with wipes, becaue many times PUG doesn't know what to do. And after that comes the explanation and retry. Not in 5.0 as after the first wipe many raiders will save money for the guild run and for actual hard content(once the RNG gives them the gear for it).

 

If anything will provide HC raiders reason to quit, it's the fact they need to farm crates for random loot to do the hard content again(NIM/HM).

 

This.

[jozkopucik]

No, HC raiders will do. There's no new boss so you are not learning anything. For the past 2 years there hasn't been new boss even announced. But many of these players join PUG(even in SM) just for the fun. Because why not, ez mode. And that comes with wipes, becaue many times PUG doesn't know what to do. And after that comes the explanation and retry. Not in 5.0 as after the first wipe many raiders will save money for the guild run and for actual hard content(once the RNG gives them the gear for it).

 

If anything will provide HC raiders reason to quit, it's the fact they need to farm crates for random loot to do the hard content again(NIM/HM).

 

yes but arent they talking about wiping in Uprisings?? The point is that if you will be wiping in tactical Uprisings, which you will do in order to maximese your CXP people will give up due to costs.

 

If occured funny to me, but i am doing many HM fps now and there actually are people who say: Sry guys im done, no more money for repairs.

 

And those people leave then. I never considered this to be an issue, but it really is. Veterans have billions, but the newcomers, who are the core of the game now, don't!! You will rely on pugs to fill spots in Uprisings, not guildies, who left long time ago due to no content.

[fabsus]

wait. what progression?

there is no new operation, just warmed content.

if there is an new operation announced in january,

it will be released later summer. so enough time to

do several tat-runs and saving billions of credits.

 

also that you golden your nose, by crafting all the needed

stuff first, will give you a hugh flab on credits.

 

with the start of 4.0 a friend just crafted barrels.

he did millions every week, even if he bought all

the materials.

[Deaconik]

yes but arent they talking about wiping in Uprisings?? The point is that if you will be wiping in tactical Uprisings, which you will do in order to maximese your CXP people will give up due to costs.

 

If occured funny to me, but i am doing many HM fps now and there actually are people who say: Sry guys im done, no more money for repairs.

 

And those people leave then. I never considered this to be an issue, but it really is. Veterans have billions, but the newcomers, who are the core of the game now, don't!! You will rely on pugs to fill spots in Uprisings, not guildies, who left long time ago due to no content.

 

I play from the launch +1month(January). I have 10 m credits right now. Sure, I have some expensive sets(Recluse, Satele e.g.), but still, I am broke

Our raid leader plays from the start. He has 20 m

In our guild there are 2 people with more than 100 m credits, both of them don't raid as they have no time

 

wait. what progression?

there is no new operation, just warmed content.

if there is an new operation announced in january,

it will be released later summer. so enough time to

do several tat-runs and saving billions of credits.

 

also that you golden your nose, by crafting all the needed

stuff first, will give you a hugh flab on credits.

 

with the start of 4.0 a friend just crafted barrels.

he did millions every week, even if he bought all

the materials.

 

Not everyone finished the operations before. So some of us are still progressing through the content. BTW quitting players don't help. We geared players, finished all the HMs(- Revan - M&B) and started doing S&V NIM. We got to Cartel Warlords. The next week our MT quit because NYCC Cantina and no operation announced. And we are BACK at the HM content as we need to replace one guy with a newbie from our guild. That's the progression, do the content before another raid person quits

[jozkopucik]

I play from the launch +1month(January). I have 10 m credits right now. Sure, I have some expensive sets(Recluse, Satele e.g.), but still, I am broke

Our raid leader plays from the start. He has 20 m

In our guild there are 2 people with more than 100 m credits, both of them don't raid as they have no time

 

Well OK, playing for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean you will be well off. You need to know how to make credits and also need to do it. You can either play it smart and get rich fast with GTN stuff or play a long time and farm heroics atm, which are the best and easiest form of credit making now. If you have several toons and hurry up you can easily make over 50 mil till 5.0 drops.

 

 

Not everyone finished the operations before. So some of us are still progressing through the content. BTW quitting players don't help. We geared players, finished all the HMs(- Revan - M&B) and started doing S&V NIM. We got to Cartel Warlords. The next week our MT quit because NYCC Cantina and no operation announced. And we are BACK at the HM content as we need to replace one guy with a newbie from our guild. That's the progression, do the content before another raid person quits

 

Again that's all about playing. I played 1 year before I found out there are operations in the game. It really depends on what you do in the game, you can play for 5 years and have 0 ops attempts. That is fine, everyone plays for a different reason, PVP, RP, Space Barbie, whatever. i had the same problem with the guilds I was in too, guild fell apart, not enough content, went to another one which also fell apart shortly due to no content etc.

[Deaconik]

Well OK, playing for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean you will be well off. You need to know how to make credits and also need to do it. You can either play it smart and get rich fast with GTN stuff or play a long time and farm heroics atm, which are the best and easiest form of credit making now. If you have several toons and hurry up you can easily make over 50 mil till 5.0 drops.

 

Again that's all about playing. I played 1 year before I found out there are operations in the game. It really depends on what you do in the game, you can play for 5 years and have 0 ops attempts. That is fine, everyone plays for a different reason, PVP, RP, Space Barbie, whatever. i had the same problem with the guilds I was in too, guild fell apart, not enough content, went to another one which also fell apart shortly due to no content etc.

 

Sure, I know how to get money, but I won't get money for PUGs try That's all. I can live with 10 m credits for a long time even with 40k repairs(please note they had the TOP GEAR and we won't start with top gear).

 

And the 2nd part. We are Czech guild only. Meaning we have a little trouble finding all the people needed Every time we get to start going NIMs we lose a person to RL or something else So we need to find another person and start learning the person new things.

 

BTW There are Operations I really enjoy no matter how often I will go them. DF/DP mostly. Then to some extent ToS & TFB & S&V. I don't mind EV/KP but can ignore it (too ez) I hate Rav(not because of the difficulty but because I hate the Wookie fight in the closed room >< )

[psandak]

Not everyone finished the operations before

 

This.

 

While I have completed NiM DF (pre-4.0), the current raid group (new guild) I am in is struggling to defeat HM Corrupter Zero with consistency and half the group has yet to beat HM Brontes.

 

The point is that while "hardcore progression" may not be happening anymore, there are still PLENTY of "progression raid groups" out there who WILL be harmed by this change.

 

While I feel that there are not enough credits sinks in this game, IMO this change feels punitive. Cut that 40k in half to 20k, and I would on board.

Edited November 14, 2016 by psandak

[Toraak]

Something to consider. The group that was in the uprising playthrough stream was in FULL 142 Nightmare gear they said. at that point nobody will be farming Uprisings for crates. When we're farming them we'll be in less gear, which means Less then 40k repair bills. Also Heroics credit rewards level sync'ed, so we don't know how much (or little if they nerf them) Heroics will give yet. If 1 heroic gives you 50+k, then the high repair cost may not be that much.

 

The 40k repair cost is more important for the Progression raiders, but raiders do what is necessary to play the content we love. (and there are players that haven't completed everything yet, or newer players.)

[Threjyan]

Veterans have billions, but the newcomers, who are the core of the game now, don't!! .

 

i love your irony m3-r0

 

u mean all those new players consisntently farming heroics every week that are playing space barbie dont have millions?

 

 

i never saw a game easier then SWTOR to farm creds..and i highly doubt it will change in 5.0

[Threjyan]

I hate Rav(not because of the difficulty but because I hate the Wookie fight in the closed room >< )

 

but but M&B.. hardest hm boss in the game..wookie u can to some extent dps the ****te out of him.-take 6 dps and kill him in 2 minutes

Edited November 14, 2016 by Threjyan

[jozkopucik]

i love your irony m3-r0

 

u mean all those new players consisntently farming heroics every week that are playing space barbie dont have millions?

 

 

i never saw a game easier then SWTOR to farm creds..and i highly doubt it will change in 5.0

 

Yes well it wasnt that easy always. Its only easy now with the heroics, before you had to do only dailies in a certain order and needed much more time. The inflation we have now is also as never before.

[jozkopucik]

We are Czech guild only.

 

Tak vies, ludi je dost len treba spravne hladat, co sa kukam tak je to samy CZ/SK

 

Anyway, we all like to ops, thats why we are still around, yet we would really like the game to head into another direction as it is now. I wonder what the credits awards will be in 5.0 they have the means to buff rewards from PVP and many others, maybe make dailies attractive again.

[Deaconik]

but but M&B.. hardest hm boss in the game..wookie u can to some extent dps the ****te out of him.-take 6 dps and kill him in 2 minutes

 

It's not about difficulty, it's about game engine and small room fight If the game handled with invisible walls/ceiling... THen I would hate it for M&B

[teclado]

Well, we've seen repair costs rise with gear increases in the past. It's possible that we will see a corresponding increase in credit sources, to the extent that 40k repair costs won't seem so bad.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

On today's livestream, we saw that the new gear will be Legendary, not Artifact, and because of that, the repair costs will be higher. They noticed my question about repair costs and summoned a repair droid, it showed a 40k bill (compared to the 8k we have now).

 

With the current inflation, I expected the repair costs to rise but this means that only endgame raiders will be taxed. PvPers don't have repair costs, and solo players rarely die, and they may not even have the legendary gear.

What do you think? Do you also think it is unfair?

 

And how do you motivate players to continue to do progression raiding even though it will eat up their credits? (I didn't start raiding until 1.3 so I missed the time when there were like 100k repair costs per wipe. Any tips you have would be appreciated)

We used to have a guild tax but it proved to be impossible to enforce, and a lot of work to check the ledger with this many alts. And you'd need a weekly supply of 10-30 million credits if you don't want the guild bank to run dry.

If the repair costs get too high for my raid group, I guess we can organize credit farm nights or sale runs (even though I'd rather not do those because I raid for fun, not to earn credits). Any other ideas?

 

Yeah, this is just another stab at end game raiders. Sure, you can earn CXP doing any content, which therefore will mean other content will not be "taxed" as it were according to your noting the repair bill in Operations. If people doing other content aren't having to pay those kinds of repair costs, only progression raiders will be getting stuck with this exorbitant repair bill. Let's face it, you wipe sometimes in Operations, the harder the level of the operation [HM/NiM] the more instances you will be facing wipes compared to easier content. Think about how you have to work your way through Revan HM or Master/Blaster, learn as you go, it's wipe city. That's unbelievable development. You're absolutely right,the amount of credits progression raiders will have go through will be ridiculous. if your calculations are correct and it's literally like 10-30 million credits a week, that can't be seen as anything other than another of BW's actions that are killing off progression raiding in this game along with all the other crap. They take the gear out of the Operations and than they want to tack on greater expenditures to do content that awards no gear whatsoever in it's own right like it has for years and years?

 

It literally just gets worse and worse the more developments that come to light. I can't believe all the bad choices they are making for this x-pac. I've never seen one before with so many in-climate negatives as 5.0 appears to. What little was left of progression raiding in this game I don't see lasting much longer. If all these things turn out to be true, I think it will be the extinction of progression raiding in this game. I hope this isn't the way it is when it's released.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This will highly discourage people from doing pugs since repeated wiping will get expensive very quickly and people will drop from groups even quicker at the first sign of trouble. This is also another nail in the coffin of preferred who only have 350K credits:mad:

 

This is going to bring a whole new level of rage quitting, pointing fingers, and assigning blame.

 

Where til now it was more like "Sorry, guys, my bad"/ "NP, it happens.", in 5.0 it'll be people demanding money all the time for repair costs, chewing other players out for making mistakes. People may shy away from pugging because it will become more like PVP venom.

 

At least in progression raiding, your with an established group, you know the people, and mostly you're friendly with them, so raid teams will at least be spared those sort of reactions to wiping.

 

Either way tho, it's bad.

[Leutzu]

crying about some repairs cost in 2016 ...

[majopucik]

crying about some repairs cost in 2016 ...

 

Well you have to always find something to cry about, no?

[Deaconik]

Well you have to always find something to cry about, no?

 

Well, at least BWA knows this and is providing us enough things to cry about They know even the QQ section needs to be make easier