5.0 Sent/Mara changes.....

[Scattershot]

Hi all,

 

I don't usually post but I was curious on what every ones thoughts were on the new changes in the new up coming update.

 

cheers

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Hi all,

 

I don't usually post but I was curious on what every ones thoughts were on the new changes in the new up coming update.

 

cheers

 

Please note this information is second hand, but it comes from a reliable source who had posted many of the changes he found on the PTS, unfortunately BW removed the post very quickly. That said -

 

If the latest PTS model remains, the projected dps for Marauders is nothing short of a significant nerf. Just to give you an idea

 

Annihilation is going from Rank 1 to Rank 5

Carnage is going from rank 2 to rank 10

Fury is going from rank 15 to rank 11.

 

The top tier will be

 

Rank 1 Mercs [i/O]

Rank 2 Sniper [Virulence]

Rank 3 [Engineering]

Rank 4 Operative [Lethality]

 

[i might have mistaken Virulence and Engineering, it may be the reverse order, but still in those rank spots]

 

Melee will once again be subpar DPS like during 3.0. The DPS differences between the 16 specs has gotten slightly bigger.

 

Difference in DPS between Rank 1 and Rank 16 is approximately 1000 point DPS difference.

 

People have long been asking to make the dps differences closer together as to basically make any class more reasonably viable than presently for any content. BW choose to ignore this and decided to increase the margin of differences slightly.

 

Given the greater uptime that ranged already enjoys, now they will also have greater DPS than Melee so you can reasonably expect that with the greater uptime and higher dps these ranged classes, in live raids the differences in DPS output between ranged and melee will be significant. The whole point of furnishing melee with a higher dps than ranged was intended to help offset the fact that ranged enjoys. more uptime than melee as they are not as effected by certain raid mechanics that force melee to move out of attack range for various amounts of time [depending on the mechanic].

 

I'm happy Snipers got a dps buff,they are one of the only two pure dps classes in the game, but the issue of greater uptime with greater DPS output potentials will very likely result in a repeat of 3.0's "melee not wanted'/ seen as something of a liability [as ranged tend in many instances to not be a prone to taking certain kinds of damage that melee are more at risk to take] as melee will make the job on the healers harder. Making the healers jobs easier and having better DPS than melee, I think its a reasonable concern that melee are going to be the less desirable choice and thereby less wanted.

 

For myself, as someone who only plays a Carnage marauder and as a progression raider, the changes to the gearing system, the RNG factors involved, the availability of BIS gear without ever having to strep foot in an Operation and from content you can get thru using nothing but basic attack, these things were already forcing me to highly consider ending my sub and leaving the game, although I had every intention of at least giving 5.0 a try. With

the seemingly significant nerf to marauders DPS [assuming the projections seen prove to be correct], that pushed me over and essentially made the decision for me. I don't wanna go through 3.0 all over again, all the more so for what other changes are doing to progression raiding and end game PVP. I'm giving 5.0 two weeks because I had already promised my raid group that I would at least give 5.0 a try.

 

I never ever thought I'd leave the game. I was wrong.

Edited November 8, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[MixWeidner]

 

I never ever thought I'd leave the game. I was wrong.

 

Excuse me, I don't want to be offensive, but how many times did you type that if X happens, you leave the game?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Excuse me, I don't want to be offensive, but how many times did you type that if X happens, you leave the game?

 

Prior to announcements regarding 5.0 changes?

 

To the best of my recollection, Never.

[Essodu]

Annihilation is going from Rank 1 to Rank 5

Carnage is going from rank 2 to rank 10

Fury is going from rank 15 to rank 11.

 

The top tier will be

 

Rank 1 Mercs [i/O]

Rank 2 Sniper [Virulence]

Rank 3 [Engineering]

Rank 4 Operative [Lethality].

 

I.... what? Annihilation is already by far the most convoluted mass of buttons in the game. The amount of ability bloat it's fallen prey to is insane. On top of that, it's got such an absurdly long ramp up and recovery times that its position as number one was only really theoretical in the first place; carnage normally beat it hands down in practice. Carnage, meanwhile, is absurdly fast paced -- easily the fastest paced spec in the game, bar none. And for no discernible reason they decide to kick both specs in their proverbial junk? I truly hope the changes we've seen thus far do not end up being finalized, elsewise there just won't be melee appearing in PvE content at all.

 

Then, to add icing to the cake; Fury, the spec that is almost universally considered the most fun out of the three, remains the red headed step child, only now one of its two big brothers will be helping it keep the bench warm.

[Yezzan]

if you are going to be doing the content in Veteran mode then you'd better go Annihilation.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I.... what? Annihilation is already by far the most convoluted mass of buttons in the game. The amount of ability bloat it's fallen prey to is insane. On top of that, it's got such an absurdly long ramp up and recovery times that its position as number one was only really theoretical in the first place; carnage normally beat it hands down in practice. Carnage, meanwhile, is absurdly fast paced -- easily the fastest paced spec in the game, bar none. And for no discernible reason they decide to kick both specs in their proverbial junk? I truly hope the changes we've seen thus far do not end up being finalized, elsewise there just won't be melee appearing in PvE content at all.

 

Then, to add icing to the cake; Fury, the spec that is almost universally considered the most fun out of the three, remains the red headed step child, only now one of its two big brothers will be helping it keep the bench warm.

 

I feel you and agree with you on all accounts. Mind you this could still change, this was the state of things as per PTS 12, information provided by Bant that has since been removed from the forums by BW.

 

Is this does remain the same and goes live with 5.0, it is my opinion this will be very bad for maras. Between Anni and Carnage comes specs from Operatives, Assassins, Juggs. 5.0 will likely become akin to 3.0 for maras [and other melee to a lesser extent], simply subpar and unwanted. Ranged,with it's inherent greater uptime compared to melee, it's tendency to take less damage, being further away from boss aoes/mechanics, and than it's inherent greater DPS [when compared to maras this will be 100s of points difference], there is simply no reason to not take preference to Mercs and Snipers for DPS. Beyond that, Operatives will become the best melee DPS combatants by significant margins.I cannot help but note the irony of that by the fact that their main weapon is a BLASTER RIFLE. A stealth class, with healing capabilities no less, with the ability to steatlh rez/Dirty rez.

 

 

If these numbers stand, Marauders, a pure DPS class, will be rendered subpar DPS. Some classes with stealth and self healing will have disciplines with greater DPS than maras. Bad for PVE, bad for PVP.

 

Some may find this fair and acceptable, but, I'm not one of those people. While there have been those who have disagreed with me on this [as is their right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion] I have always been of the opinion that pure DPS classes should have the best DPS. As you have pointed out, it is generally accepted that Marauders require a higher skill level to play at peak compared to most other classes, they cannot switch roles, they have no form of self-healing [Anni's self-heals, are weak to the point of near uselessness comparatively speaking and that is only one spec], with rotations that are not forgiving of mistakes. So, if the changes to DPS stick, for me, it's a deal breaker as it makes no sense from my perspective.

 

I'm still hoping that changes may be made before 5.0 goes live. I overreacted when I first saw the DPS ranking for 5.0 Bant has provided, but it is still within the realm of possibility this could be different when all is said and done and so I'm simply going to wait and see to be sure before making any decisions. I'm not optimistic, but, I am hopeful. We just have to wait and see.

Edited November 11, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Scattershot]

Marauder

We found Marauders to be in a pretty solid place coming out of Knights of the Fallen Empire, so we focused on small changes that would reinforce the master-of-blades fantasy that the class already had going for it. With Ravage no longer being a channeled ability, we have elevated the fluidity with which the Marauder plays. Here are some of those changes:

Ravage: This is now an instantly activated ability to help add more mobility to the Marauder.

Gore: New ability for the Carnage Discipline. High damage ability that hinders the movement of your enemy and reduces their armor.

Each Advanced Class is receiving a new suite of Legendary Utilities, here are some of the Marauder’s:

Ruthless Aggressor: Vicious Throw refunds 2 rage on targets affected by your Obfuscate. Additionally, Vicious Throw is usable on targets affected by your Obfuscate, regardless of remaining health. Obfuscate also grants Ruthless Aggressor, increasing Force and tech defense by 75% for 6 seconds.

Hidden Savagery: While Force Camouflage is active, you gain a charge of Hidden Savagery every 0.5 seconds. Each charge of Hidden Savagery increases the damage dealt by your next melee attack by 4%. Stacks up to 12 charges and lasts for up to 6 seconds after exiting Force Camouflage.

Interloper: Force Charge grants Interloper, allowing you to activate Force Charge a second time. Interloper lasts up to 7.5 seconds and is removed if Force Charge is reused. If Interloper is not utilized by the end of its duration, Force Charge is placed on a 7.5 second cooldown. Additionally, Force Charge now builds 2 Fury.

[Scattershot]

Sentinel

We found Sentinels to be in a pretty solid place coming out of Knights of the Fallen Empire, so we focused on small changes that would reinforce the master-of-blades fantasy that the class already had going for it. With Blade Barrage no longer being a channeled ability, we have elevated the fluidity with which the Sentinel plays. Here are some of those changes:

Blade Barrage: Blade Dance has been renamed to Blade Barrage. This is now an instantly activated ability to help add more mobility to the Sentinel.

Lance: New ability for the Combat Discipline. High damage ability that hinders the movement of your enemy and reduces their armor.

Each Advanced Class is receiving a new suite of Legendary Utilities, here are some of the Sentinel’s:

Zealous Judgment: Dispatch refunds 2 focus on targets affected by your Pacify. Additionally, Dispatch is usable on targets affected by your Pacify, regardless of remaining health. Pacify also grants Zealous Judgment, increasing Force and tech defense by 75% for 6 seconds.

Hidden Advance: While Force Camouflage is active, you gain a charge of Hidden Advance every 0.5 seconds. Each charge of Hidden Advance increases the damage dealt by your next melee attack by 4%. Stacks up to 12 charges and lasts for up to 6 seconds after exiting Force Camouflage.

Intercessor: Force Leap grants Intercessor, allowing you to activate Force Leap a second time. Intercessor lasts up to 7.5 seconds and is removed if Force Leap is reused. If Intercessor is not utilized by the end of its duration, Force Leap is placed on a 7.5 second cooldown. Additionally, Force Leap now builds 2 Centering.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Sentinel

We found Sentinels to be in a pretty solid place coming out of Knights of the Fallen Empire, so we focused on small changes that would reinforce the master-of-blades fantasy that the class already had going for it. With Blade Barrage no longer being a channeled ability, we have elevated the fluidity with which the Sentinel plays. Here are some of those changes:

Blade Barrage: Blade Dance has been renamed to Blade Barrage. This is now an instantly activated ability to help add more mobility to the Sentinel.

Lance: New ability for the Combat Discipline. High damage ability that hinders the movement of your enemy and reduces their armor.

Each Advanced Class is receiving a new suite of Legendary Utilities, here are some of the Sentinel’s:

Zealous Judgment: Dispatch refunds 2 focus on targets affected by your Pacify. Additionally, Dispatch is usable on targets affected by your Pacify, regardless of remaining health. Pacify also grants Zealous Judgment, increasing Force and tech defense by 75% for 6 seconds.

Hidden Advance: While Force Camouflage is active, you gain a charge of Hidden Advance every 0.5 seconds. Each charge of Hidden Advance increases the damage dealt by your next melee attack by 4%. Stacks up to 12 charges and lasts for up to 6 seconds after exiting Force Camouflage.

Intercessor: Force Leap grants Intercessor, allowing you to activate Force Leap a second time. Intercessor lasts up to 7.5 seconds and is removed if Force Leap is reused. If Intercessor is not utilized by the end of its duration, Force Leap is placed on a 7.5 second cooldown. Additionally, Force Leap now builds 2 Centering.

 

01 - 8980 - +5.85% --- Mercenary - Innovative Ordinance || Commando - Assault Specialist

02 - 8964 - +5.65% --- Sniper - Virulence || Gunslinger - Dirty Fighting

03 - 8892 - +4.81% --- Sniper - Engineering || Gunslinger - Saboteur

04 - 8844 - +4.24% --- Operative - Lethality || Scoundrel - Ruffian

05 - 8809 - +3.83% --- Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman

06 - 8717 - +2.75% --- Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

07 - 8682 - +2.33% --- Mercenary - Arsenal || Commando - Gunnery

08 - 8673 - +2.23% --- Operative - Concealment || Scoundrel - Scrapper

09 - 8500 - +0.18% --- Juggernaut - Vengeance || Guardian - Vigilance

10 - 8493 - +0.10% --- Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat

11 - 8352 - -1.56% --- Marauder - Fury || Sentinel - Concentration

12 - 8256 - -2.69% --- Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics

13 - 8226 - -3.05% --- Assassin - Hatred || Shadow - Serenity

14 - 8127 - -4.21% --- Sorcerer - Madness || Sage - Balance

15 - 8116 - -4.34% --- Powertech - Pyrotech || Vanguard - Plasmatech

16 - 8098 - -4.56% --- Juggernaut - Rage || Guardian - Focus

17 - 8072 - -4.86% --- Sniper - Marksman || Gunslinger - Sharpshooter

18 - 7917 - -6.68% --- Sorcerer - Lightning || Sage - Telekinetics

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

01 - 8980 - +5.85% --- Mercenary - Innovative Ordinance || Commando - Assault Specialist

02 - 8964 - +5.65% --- Sniper - Virulence || Gunslinger - Dirty Fighting

03 - 8892 - +4.81% --- Sniper - Engineering || Gunslinger - Saboteur

04 - 8844 - +4.24% --- Operative - Lethality || Scoundrel - Ruffian

05 - 8809 - +3.83% --- Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman

06 - 8717 - +2.75% --- Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

07 - 8682 - +2.33% --- Mercenary - Arsenal || Commando - Gunnery

08 - 8673 - +2.23% --- Operative - Concealment || Scoundrel - Scrapper

09 - 8500 - +0.18% --- Juggernaut - Vengeance || Guardian - Vigilance

10 - 8493 - +0.10% --- Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat

11 - 8352 - -1.56% --- Marauder - Fury || Sentinel - Concentration

12 - 8256 - -2.69% --- Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics

13 - 8226 - -3.05% --- Assassin - Hatred || Shadow - Serenity

14 - 8127 - -4.21% --- Sorcerer - Madness || Sage - Balance

15 - 8116 - -4.34% --- Powertech - Pyrotech || Vanguard - Plasmatech

16 - 8098 - -4.56% --- Juggernaut - Rage || Guardian - Focus

17 - 8072 - -4.86% --- Sniper - Marksman || Gunslinger - Sharpshooter

18 - 7917 - -6.68% --- Sorcerer - Lightning || Sage - Telekinetics

 

This could change of course when 5.0 goes live. This is just the current state on the PTS. This close to 5.0 dropping though, I'm not optimistic. I do have my fingers crossed though.

 

Assuming this is the new order of things when 5.0 goes live:

 

Marauders, one of two pure DPS classes. No role changes, no self-healing, no stealth, a higher skill set for effectiveness than most other classes, has to deal with unfriendly melee raid mechanics, less uptime than ranged, more prone to take damage. Not one spec in the top tier. Operatives, sneaky, self-healing, who use a BLASTER Rifle as their main weapon, better melee DPS than Marauders, the quintessential saber masters, "the master-of-blades fantasy that the class already had going for it." [biowares description], That's fair. - Gonna be 3.0 all over again for Marauders.

 

Think I'll pass.

Edited November 12, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Kyuuu]

if redit post of dps parse are correct alot dps will be do 9k + annilation was clocked at 9.6k dps on dummies.

[MixWeidner]

This could change of course when 5.0 goes live. This is just the current state on the PTS. This close to 5.0 dropping though, I'm not optimistic. I do have my fingers crossed though.

 

Assuming this is the new order of things when 5.0 goes live:

 

Marauders, one of two pure DPS classes. No role changes, no self-healing, no stealth, a higher skill set for effectiveness than most other classes, has to deal with unfriendly melee raid mechanics, less uptime than ranged, more prone to take damage. Not one spec in the top tier. Operatives, sneaky, self-healing, who use a BLASTER Rifle as their main weapon, better melee DPS than Marauders, the quintessential saber masters, "the master-of-blades fantasy that the class already had going for it." [biowares description], That's fair. - Gonna be 3.0 all over again for Marauders.

 

Think I'll pass.

 

Marauder still has nice position DPS wise. Anni is much higher than average, Carnage and Fury are in the middle of the chart. Bloodthirst + Predation = everyone loves maras.

[Essodu]

Marauder still has nice position DPS wise. Anni is much higher than average, Carnage and Fury are in the middle of the chart. Bloodthirst + Predation = everyone loves maras.

 

And that is a problem. Bloodthirst + Predation should not be used as justification for the other two specs of a class that is purely DPS being crap. As far as DPS goes, being middle of the pack is every bit as bad as being at the bottom. And frankly, with the amount of skill that is required to correctly use Annihilation, it should always sit at number one. Anni marauder requires significantly more effort than any other class/spec--the ability bloat made sure of that.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Essodu

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Marauder still has nice position DPS wise. Anni is much higher than average, Carnage and Fury are in the middle of the chart. Bloodthirst + Predation = everyone loves maras.

 

Hey, If you are happy with that, that's great, honestly. I'm not though. I'm of the opinion that a pure DPS class should not be middle of the chart. I have no issue with snipers being up there, they're a pure DPS class too, they should be,

 

People love the classes that do the best damage, have good survivability, self heals and better uptime than melee [Mercs]. A 10 second buff doesn't compete with all that.

 

But, If you can have fun with it, that's really all that matters. I don't behove anyone the right to their opinions.

Edited November 13, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[frosttj]

I'm of the opinion that a pure DPS class should not be middle of the chart. I have no issue with snipers being up there, they're a pure DPS class too, they should be

 

This. Balance the damage with raid mechanics, not gimping the numbers.

[Bonzenaattori]

in b4 they start destroying Precision/Gore windows again due to players having the brains to use their strongest attacks and that apparently is a violation of some kind

[Threjyan]

if redit post of dps parse are correct alot dps will be do 9k + annilation was clocked at 9.6k dps on dummies.

 

can u share link of that info?

[Threjyan]

This. Balance the damage with raid mechanics, not gimping the numbers.

 

i do have problems when a turret class has more dps then a mellee class. and i play almost all specs, so with more or less efforti i could adapt, to the one that brings more numbers, but i still think it is silly. Unless they put mechanics for rdps

[Troelsen]

I just hate that they keep using the word "fantasy." In WoW, that's lately been codeword for "balance failures are actually features because we're lazy/new/delusional."

 

It's an excuse to allow a class to deteriorate or be pruned and altered beyond recognition. I don't feel like the ACs in this game have any kind of fantasy or identity crisis.

[verfallen]

I don't agree pure dps class should top off massively the damage chart in live ops, as they already bring nice utilities to the raid. But mdps should definitively be higher on the dummy, ramp up like anni on top of the dummy parses, like we see now, and burst like carnage about on par with the sustained rdps class. Lightning, Arsenal and Marksman should do the less dummy parsing, as we see now, as burst rdps are the easiest to keep up dummy numbers with in ops.

 

But currently, the way the meta is, being a spec that can tank or heal doesnt do much in HM raids. Its nice for sm to have a dps with a taunt as many ops can then be done single tank and go faster, but thats it.

 

A dps that taunts an HM raid boss is just going to get oneshotted in most case within a few seconds.

 

Offheal? Typically unneffective due to massive pushback and ressource consideration.

 

So unless those are made effective, which I don't think it will, neither do I think marauder and sniper, which bring nice utilities to a raid group, outside their damage, should have a dps advantage in any trees, if not for the fact that arguably, you have 3 different dps spec for the fight, and should a player be proefficient in all 3, you can field respec and take the best spec for the fight you are heading in.

 

Thats the one advantage that dps trees currently have, and should keep. But having one or all of those spec be better than the other classes dps would currently not be fair imo, as both have decent utility ability.

[Essodu]

I don't agree pure dps class should top off massively the damage chart in live ops, as they already bring nice utilities to the raid. But mdps should definitively be higher on the dummy, ramp up like anni on top of the dummy parses, like we see now, and burst like carnage about on par with the sustained rdps class. Lightning, Arsenal and Marksman should do the less dummy parsing, as we see now, as burst rdps are the easiest to keep up dummy numbers with in ops.

 

But currently, the way the meta is, being a spec that can tank or heal doesnt do much in HM raids. Its nice for sm to have a dps with a taunt as many ops can then be done single tank and go faster, but thats it.

 

A dps that taunts an HM raid boss is just going to get oneshotted in most case within a few seconds.

 

Offheal? Typically unneffective due to massive pushback and ressource consideration.

 

So unless those are made effective, which I don't think it will, neither do I think marauder and sniper, which bring nice utilities to a raid group, outside their damage, should have a dps advantage in any trees, if not for the fact that arguably, you have 3 different dps spec for the fight, and should a player be proefficient in all 3, you can field respec and take the best spec for the fight you are heading in.

 

Thats the one advantage that dps trees currently have, and should keep. But having one or all of those spec be better than the other classes dps would currently not be fair imo, as both have decent utility ability.

 

A few points I feel should be made here.

 

1.) The hybrids are generally significantly more durable. If a marauder botches a mechanic or is unlucky enough in the RNG to be chain targeted with unavoidable mechanics, it's more than likely just straight dead. This same thing, putting aside instant death mechanics, has a very low chance of actually killing a Juggernaut. Other hybrids make up for lack of tankiness by being able to heal themselves. And more importantly than that, these classes can choose to assume a role other than DPS when they're put in a position where their numbers, be it through player error or poor game design, are no longer sufficient for a given task. Pure DPS classes lack this option and therefore suffer significantly more from poor design decisions.

 

2.) Marauders in particular have a very high skill cap. The gap between the 'average" marauder and one that is truly skilled is very pronounced. Average players won't even be able to draw out three quarters of the class's potential. A tremendous amount of effort, focus, and hand/eye coordination are required to keep up your rotation/priority whilst at the same time performing the plethora of boss mechanics that are aimed your way.

 

3.) Marauder has zero survivability outside of Undying Rage. If that's on CD and you get in trouble, you're pretty much SOL. Being a "glass cannon" without the "cannon" would probably be quite off putting to players.

 

4.) Marauder does present some nice utility in the forms of Bloodthirst and Predation, but that is all it brings to the table aside from damage. The class as a whole exists purely to bring the pain.

 

So bearing these four things in mind, why shouldn't all three marauder specs pretty much stay above average? Besides, dummy parses only mean so much. If we use Annihilation's spot as fifth as the example, I believe it won't be hard to conclude that it'll be much lower than current projections once fight mechanics are brought into the equation.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

if redit post of dps parse are correct alot dps will be do 9k + annilation was clocked at 9.6k dps on dummies.

 

That very well may be, but, that doesn't take into account that if that can be done with annihilation, than you are in all likelihood going to be seeing mercs and snipers and Ops doing 10+k dps on dummies. Therefore, the 9k Annihilation parse is merely relative, and that's going to leave Carnage sub 9k.

 

In the present meta [4.0], the highest dummy DPS parses were from Marauders. You cannot find one other class that has reached as high as the highest Marauder dummy parses [Annihilation and Carnage]. They are Rank 1 and Rank 2 on the present DPS chart.

 

If the proposed DPS chart goes live, Annihilation is going from Rank 1 to Rank 5 and Carnage is going from Rank 2 to Rank 10. These are tremendous changes in DPS. In the coming meta, under those conditions, you will not find the highest dummy parses coming from any Marauder.

 

This isn't, of course, to say that it will be impossible to find any marauder beating a Merc or a Sniper or an Operative in DPS, that will be a condition based on player skill. Even now if you do an Operation, you will find instances of any class doing more DPS than that of an individual marauder. Just because a class has a higher DPS ceiling than another is no guarantee that everyone playing that higher DPS class will have the skill to reach the heights of the classes DPS ceiling, so a greater skilled player using a class with a lower DPS ceiling can do more DPS than a less skilled player playing a class with a higher DPS ceiling.

 

The best [highest DPS] dummy parses among Mercs, Snipers. and Operatives will be higher than the best [highest DPS] Marauder dummy parses. This will translate over into group content in the same way it does in the current meta, relative to player skill. The math is the math.

 

You cannot beat the math.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

A few points I feel should be made here.

 

1.) The hybrids are generally significantly more durable. If a marauder botches a mechanic or is unlucky enough in the RNG to be chain targeted with unavoidable mechanics, it's more than likely just straight dead. This same thing, putting aside instant death mechanics, has a very low chance of actually killing a Juggernaut. Other hybrids make up for lack of tankiness by being able to heal themselves. And more importantly than that, these classes can choose to assume a role other than DPS when they're put in a position where their numbers, be it through player error or poor game design, are no longer sufficient for a given task. Pure DPS classes lack this option and therefore suffer significantly more from poor design decisions.

 

2.) Marauders in particular have a very high skill cap. The gap between the 'average" marauder and one that is truly skilled is very pronounced. Average players won't even be able to draw out three quarters of the class's potential. A tremendous amount of effort, focus, and hand/eye coordination are required to keep up your rotation/priority whilst at the same time performing the plethora of boss mechanics that are aimed your way.

 

3.) Marauder has zero survivability outside of Undying Rage. If that's on CD and you get in trouble, you're pretty much SOL. Being a "glass cannon" without the "cannon" would probably be quite off putting to players.

 

4.) Marauder does present some nice utility in the forms of Bloodthirst and Predation, but that is all it brings to the table aside from damage. The class as a whole exists purely to bring the pain.

 

So bearing these four things in mind, why shouldn't all three marauder specs pretty much stay above average? Besides, dummy parses only mean so much. If we use Annihilation's spot as fifth as the example, I believe it won't be hard to conclude that it'll be much lower than current projections once fight mechanics are brought into the equation.

 

^ This.

[AndoEyrune]

A few points I feel should be made here.

 

1.) The hybrids are generally significantly more durable. If a marauder botches a mechanic or is unlucky enough in the RNG to be chain targeted with unavoidable mechanics, it's more than likely just straight dead. This same thing, putting aside instant death mechanics, has a very low chance of actually killing a Juggernaut. Other hybrids make up for lack of tankiness by being able to heal themselves. And more importantly than that, these classes can choose to assume a role other than DPS when they're put in a position where their numbers, be it through player error or poor game design, are no longer sufficient for a given task. Pure DPS classes lack this option and therefore suffer significantly more from poor design decisions.

 

2.) Marauders in particular have a very high skill cap. The gap between the 'average" marauder and one that is truly skilled is very pronounced. Average players won't even be able to draw out three quarters of the class's potential. A tremendous amount of effort, focus, and hand/eye coordination are required to keep up your rotation/priority whilst at the same time performing the plethora of boss mechanics that are aimed your way.

 

3.) Marauder has zero survivability outside of Undying Rage. If that's on CD and you get in trouble, you're pretty much SOL. Being a "glass cannon" without the "cannon" would probably be quite off putting to players.

 

4.) Marauder does present some nice utility in the forms of Bloodthirst and Predation, but that is all it brings to the table aside from damage. The class as a whole exists purely to bring the pain.

 

1. Maras have plenty of defensive capability, and are one of the most durable dps classes in game, if played correctly.

 

2. The skill cap statement is true for all classes. A sub par virulence sniper or IO merc won't do any better than a sub par marauder. In fact, i'd dare say that a sub par mara can do better, as it doesn't have a resource that relies on being kept at a certain point in order to stay high (like heat and energy).

 

3. Read point 1.

 

4. Kinda pertaining to point 2, the class can easily bring the pain, even if not as high as the other DPS classes, and the predation and bloodthirst are just icing on the cake.

Edited November 16, 2016 by AndoEyrune