Possibilty for SWTOR to Go Full Pay-to-Win

[xkcurtisx]

They never sold a boost for better Ops rolls, or double loot drops from Ops in the past, or double PvP comms...a CXP boost would be the same as any of those things and it would absolutely be unacceptable.

 

What about the fact that now they require a certain level of valor for you to enter r-warzones. And they do sell valor boosts

[eriksarcasm]

So?

How is that any different from XP boosters that shorten the average time until a player gets to endgame or valor & social boosts that shorten the time it takes to rank up in their respective areas?

 

Gotta have social rank to get access to unique social equipment and the achievements that come along with it.

I'm sure valor gives you something, but it's PvP and I don't care about it.

Leveling up gives you access to better gear that you still have to buy, craft, or loot.

Leveling up your Command Rank gives you more random chances to get a piece of gear you may or may not need.

 

It sounds like this whole argument comes back to a whine about "oh noes, someone else will have gear like mine and I won't be special anymore" or something.

 

That right there is why you're missing the point. XP boosts help you level faster to get to the endgame gear but doesn't in any way help you get that gear once you're there. GXP boosts would help you get that gear, which affects how well you do in PvP and ops.

[RswanBing]

So?

How is that any different from XP boosters that shorten the average time until a player gets to endgame or valor & social boosts that shorten the time it takes to rank up in their respective areas?

 

Gotta have social rank to get access to unique social equipment and the achievements that come along with it.

I'm sure valor gives you something, but it's PvP and I don't care about it.

 

Leveling up gives you access to better gear that you still have to buy, craft, or loot.

Leveling up your Command Rank gives you more random chances to get a piece of gear you may or may not need.

 

It sounds like this whole argument comes back to a whine about "oh noes, someone else will have gear like mine and I won't be special anymore" or something.

 

Social rank give you access to special stuff, but doesn't gives you access to a better quality of gear. Same for valor which is useless at the moment.

 

You can level up as fast as you want right now, when you hit 65 it doesn't give you stuff, you can buy it or earn it, but the xp doesn't have a direct impact on the stuff you have. An xp boost don't help you to gear up, just to level up.

 

With the "hypothetical" boosts, since the xp you get have a direct impact on the gear you can have, the situation is different. The more Cxp you get, the more often you get gear if I get it right. Considering the rng system, if someone buy boosts, it will be way more easier to get is set, since he will get gear way more often than someone who doesn't.

Edited November 8, 2016 by RswanBing

[xkcurtisx]

Social rank give you access to special stuff, but doesn't gives you to a better quality of gear. Same for valor.

 

You can level up as fast as you want right now, when you hit 65 it doesn't give you stuff, you can buy it or earn it, but the xp doesn't have a direct impact on the stuff you have. An xp boost don't help you to gear up, just to level up.

 

With the "hypothetical" boosts, since the xp you get have a direct impact on the gear you can have, the situation is different. The more Cxp you get, the more often you get gear if I get it right. Considering the rng system, if someone buy boosts, it will be way more easier to get is set, since he will get gear way more often than someone who doesn't.

 

But valor now gives you ACCESS to r-warzones. R-warzones give more C-XP. And they do sell Valor boosts as i mentioned above already.

 

Edit: failed to point out that this indeed speeds up your gearing and is a money option.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Xcurtx

[RswanBing]

But valor now gives you ACCESS to r-warzones. R-warzones give more C-XP. And they do sell Valor boosts as i mentioned above already.

 

 

Sorry, can't check new replies while replying

 

At the moment valor serves to nothing, so it's not a pay to win thing. But I agree that if the valor boost still exist in 5.0, things will be different, and it would be the same problem.

 

Edit: I'm wrong, as AllisonLightning said it better after me.

Edited November 8, 2016 by RswanBing

[AllisonLightning]

What about the fact that now they require a certain level of valor for you to enter r-warzones. And they do sell valor boosts

 

Valor is basically a bragging number, it provides little benefit and won't help you win any Ranked matches... if you are so bad that you in 5.0 with an endgame 70 character, struggle to hit a certain Valor level without boosts fast enough to get into ranked, you should stay in regular warzones until you get better. Most people with endgame characters who PvP now have the requisite Valor for ranked.

 

It's not exactly Valor = warzone effectiveness.

Edited November 8, 2016 by AllisonLightning

[AlienEyeTX]

CXP boosts? I hope you're kidding me...because that's not ok......

 

They have boosts for everything else. So, why not?

[Radzkie]

XP boosts get you to the point where you can earn gear. And in theory Valor boots get you to the point where you can earn gear more efficiently, though that's highly debatable at this point(How often does rank pop? etc). CXP boosts would help you earn gear faster no matter the method you choose. And I'm not sure how someone couldn't think gear creates on the CM isn't P2W. Edited November 8, 2016 by Radzkie

[xkcurtisx]

Valor is basically a bragging number, it provides little benefit and won't help you win any Ranked matches... if you are so bad that you in 5.0 with an endgame 70 character, struggle to hit a certain Valor level without boosts fast enough to get into ranked, you should stay in regular warzones until you get better. Most people with endgame characters who PvP now have the requisite Valor for ranked.

 

It's not exactly Valor = warzone effectiveness.

 

I was not discussing effectiveness in warzones. i merely pointed out that now you have a money option to hit a certain valor level faster to allow access to accelerated gearing. Imagine this scenario on fresh characters for example.

[JabbaWabbA]

Firstly can someone provide firsthand proof that it has been reported or said that there would be CXP boosts, and if it's information of the yet to be released (a.k.a. datamined), message me. I'm not going to go on the attack unless there's more than conjecture.

 

On my second note on a theoretical, this would absolutely be a pay-to-win feature. XP boosts are just candy you use to get to max level faster, once you're there- you are on the same level until you've done some work and gained gear- and the new GC system is an RNG nightmare fuel fest but the same principal applies where time and effort trump all else. CXP boosts stack the deck for players who open their wallets by giving them an advantage over people who put in 25% more work for that endgame gear.

 

PvP especially.

 

This is a way too obvious opportunity for them to seize some cash from already paying players to ask for proof imo. These will happen, maybe not at launch, but maybe a few months after. I'd even put something down that the drop rates are in fact so terrible people will end up asking for these. The writing was on the wall the moment they mentioned an XP bar.

[RswanBing]

I was not discussing effectiveness in warzones. i merely pointed out that now you have a money option to hit a certain valor level faster to allow access to accelerated gearing. Imagine this scenario on fresh characters for example.

 

I'm not sure that you're right, neither that you're wrong. you and AllisonLightning each made me change my mind about this valor thing, don't know what to think now, i should consider going to sleep, and let you find the truth.

Edited November 8, 2016 by RswanBing

[Krazhez]

I'm sure if there are boosts you can buy them on the gtn, and I'm sure they will be cheap cartel coin wise. plus hello sub coins. Also, keep in mind unless you are doing pvp or hm ops gear means practically nothing, with the super dumb down of bolster.

 

And again, they addressed command crates on the cartel market and they said that would not happen.

[Ralei]

So, if this is real? I don't care. I just don't. lol. You can get your gear a month ahead of me if you want to spend $100, I'll spend my $100 on partying in the real world. Whatever.

 

When everyone is in BiS gear in about 6 months, it wont make a lick of difference.

[AllisonLightning]

I'm sure if there are boosts you can buy them on the gtn, and I'm sure they will be cheap cartel coin wise. plus hello sub coins. Also, keep in mind unless you are doing pvp or hm ops gear means practically nothing, with the super dumb down of bolster.

 

And again, they addressed command crates on the cartel market and they said that would not happen.

 

My sub coins go towards collection unlocks- they are a reward for me, a sub perk whereas being a sub allows me to play the full game. I never need to use XP boosts to get to level 65 quickly. PvP is what I get, unlimited as a sub- I have put in the time and effort to get to an acceptable level to do regulars with my ping. Getting denied something I'm paying for, without paying extra... you can green gear your way to 1936 Expertise and more than playable, you're competitive.

 

The very idea that the money I've paid and pay as my sub isn't enough to enjoy the basic regular PvP endgame is frustrating enough without the idea I'm denied the full game I'm paying for so they can turn what should be an equal playing field for subs into P2W. That feels like a Preferred Status penalty in 4.0 where you can buy your way to sub level and subscription is supposed to make us Premium players.

 

Again, disclaimer- this is conjecture. The audacity to do this would attack subscribers directly and I don't think they're so stupid as to attack subscribers and preferred status at the same time. That's pretty much their entire paying customer base unless they want to be left with the F2P players who play class stories. Good luck keeping the lights on.

 

It works me up because people are treating this like it'd be acceptable when there's no commendation boost, no crystal reward payout boost, no loot roll or boss reward boost to gear up in endgame faster. That's pure P2W and Ranked getting treated like a CXP boost, the players who do ranked now getting gear leeches would revolt and it'd quickly become an exploit that needed to be revised which is why CXP as it stands needs work because it doesn't seem to have much thought put into it and there are issues like people going into Ranked too quickly and so on.

[JamieKirby]

I highly doubt that they will do it like this, they will likely add in passes for those that are F2P or Preferred to get access to Galactic Command, like they did for the flashpoints, warzones and operations, but i highly doubt that they would make it a pay - 2 - win type of thing.

[Rolodome]

Unless it comes with a proliferation of CXP boosters you can obtain through regular gameplay, such that the bonus from buying would essentially be convenience for people with little game time and people who sink a lot of hours would easily be swimming in boosters, it's pretty much black-and-white P2W.

 

It's potentially tolerable only if the above happens along with it. Because then it's closer to "Pay to Catch Up."

 

Otherwise, asterisk that asterisk. The idea of making us sub just to get end-game gear and then saying we need to go buy boosters too if we want to gear at the same speed as everyone else? If that happened, I might just install the game for my own good and find something else to support. I'm trying to avoid sounding dramatic, cause I know dramatic language gets used so much it's like white noise. But the reality is, I can only take stooping so low before I need to get out for my own sanity.

 

And don't forget that they explicitly said on the livestream that command crates won't be sold on the CM and galactic command doesn't have anything to do with the cartel market. So this would be direct confirmation of lying through their teeth.

[xkcurtisx]

Unless it comes with a proliferation of CXP boosters you can obtain through regular gameplay, such that the bonus from buying would essentially be convenience for people with little game time and people who sink a lot of hours would easily be swimming in boosters, it's pretty much black-and-white P2W.

 

It's potentially tolerable only if the above happens along with it. Because then it's closer to "Pay to Catch Up."

 

Otherwise, asterisk that asterisk. The idea of making us sub just to get end-game gear and then saying we need to go buy boosters too if we want to gear at the same speed as everyone else? If that happened, I might just install the game for my own good and find something else to support. I'm trying to avoid sounding dramatic, cause I know dramatic language gets used so much it's like white noise. But the reality is, I can only take stooping so low before I need to get out for my own sanity.

 

And don't forget that they explicitly said on the livestream that command crates won't be sold on the CM and galactic command doesn't have anything to do with the cartel market. So this would be direct confirmation of lying through their teeth.

 

Well u know they lied several times in the past so don't be gullible and believe everything they say.

[Rolodome]

Well u know they lied several times in the past so don't be gullible and believe everything they say.

I haven't even been here actively for a year. This lie, if it is a lie, would be strike 1 for me and probably strikes 2 and 3 as well. If there is one thing I can't stand, it's lying.

[xkcurtisx]

I haven't even been here actively for a year. This lie, if it is a lie, would be strike 1 for me and probably strikes 2 and 3 as well. If there is one thing I can't stand, it's lying.

 

All I'm saying they are good at bending things one way or another.

 

Biggest recent example in my eyes that they said that operation exclusive mounts would forever stay exclusive to those.

 

When they released the eternal championship they put the NIM DP exclusive mount in there only but color altered.

So who's to say they wouldn't just name it something else to untie it from command system and sell it on the CM.

 

Not saying that they will, but not out of the question either. They good at milking people in any way.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I haven't seen any indication that they'd be selling crates on the CM. In fact they've stated the only way to acquire them is through the GC system. I wouldn't worry about that. As far as boosts, this is the first time I've heard that even mentioned

 

I mean... really guys? There isn't enough happening today in SWTOR land to get upset about, that you gotta get bent out of shape about speculation and rumors?

 

Well had they not actually created the boost item it would be speculation sure.

 

The discussion is more of whether it will make it into the game or not, not if it exists.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Firstly can someone provide firsthand proof that it has been reported or said that there would be CXP boosts, and if it's information of the yet to be released (a.k.a. datamined), message me. I'm not going to go on the attack unless there's more than conjecture.

 

On my second note on a theoretical, this would absolutely be a pay-to-win feature. XP boosts are just candy you use to get to max level faster, once you're there- you are on the same level until you've done some work and gained gear- and the new GC system is an RNG nightmare fuel fest but the same principal applies where time and effort trump all else. CXP boosts stack the deck for players who open their wallets by giving them an advantage over people who put in 25% more work for that endgame gear.

 

PvP especially.

 

Go to reddit, anyone providing you said proof would breach rules around data mining.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So, if this is real? I don't care. I just don't. lol. You can get your gear a month ahead of me if you want to spend $100, I'll spend my $100 on partying in the real world. Whatever.

 

When everyone is in BiS gear in about 6 months, it wont make a lick of difference.

 

Or they could spend the month not getting gear that you had to "partying in the real world"

[kvandertulip]

I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume any "hypothetical" CXP booster or booster combo pack, that may or may not already exist, is acquired through in-game activities and not the Cartel Market, which I would be okay with. But if they were to cross that line and sell it on the Cartel Market, it is not something I could tolerate. I would really appreciate Musco coming in here and clarifying this.

[Andyhipkiss]

All I'm saying they are good at bending things one way or another.

 

Biggest recent example in my eyes that they said that operation exclusive mounts would forever stay exclusive to those.

 

When they released the eternal championship they put the NIM DP exclusive mount in there only but color altered.

So who's to say they wouldn't just name it something else to untie it from command system and sell it on the CM.

 

Not saying that they will, but not out of the question either. They good at milking people in any way.

 

Hate to be that guy but the mount is still exclusive, is it not? The EC mount is different. Even if you don't like the differences.

 

Yes there are other examples where BW has changed direction on certain things. But changing direction is not lying.

[Tsetso]

CXP boosts? I hope you're kidding me...because that's not ok......

 

Oh, my sweet summer child, brace yourself. The winter is coming.