5.0 and Pyrotech PVP. Finally some love?

[MixWeidner]

So, our flamethrower is being replaced with instant ability (something everyone asked for), and this new ability now increases damage of immolate by 20%. So guys, how do you think, will it make Pyro move competitve in PVP or at least comparable with AP? Edited December 27, 2016 by MixWeidner

[LordCamTheGreat]

Boosts mobility massively, datamined stuff shouldn't really be on here though

[AdjeYo]

Bant did some number crunching for PTS#12, let's just say mobility gets buffed, damage gets nerfed, a lot. Basically Ravage and Flamethrower will be instant, but will do considerably less damage.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Bant did some number crunching for PTS#12, let's just say mobility gets buffed, damage gets nerfed, a lot. Basically Ravage and Flamethrower will be instant, but will do considerably less damage.

 

That may be so but you must consider the time differential as well. For example [i'm going to use carnage here as I am not well versed in BH specs.] in the case of Ravage [to your flamethrower], ravage presently covers the time span of two GCDs, assuming ravage than becomes instant it now is completed in one GCD, which therefore than frees up a GCD which than can be used for another attack. It might be prudent for the sake of correctness to say that this new freed up GCD should be looked at not as following Ravage as you would still want to use the priority attack structure. Using carnage as an example following the instant ravage you would still be using devastating blast to follow it.

 

Not knowing the figures involved I'm just going to make up an arbitrary number for the sake of example for the new Ravage.

 

Presently ravage will do 12-13k [and change] base damage [everyones stats may be different so i'll leave out the bonus damage from primary and secondary] over the course of two GCDs. Now let's assume we have the new instant damage ravage that spans 1 GCD and the damage has been lessoned to 10-11k [again a totally arbitrary number, we don't know what the new damage from it will be].

 

Now, however, we have a free GCD open that follows ravage that before was used by ravage over the course of it's channel. Essentially this pushes the rotation making it quicker to repeat every other rotational swing in the case of carnage.

 

This can be looked at two ways, it pushes the rotation cycle making it faster to repeat, or that it allows an extra attack in the same time frame as compared to present. Anyway you cut it, your going to get three attacks in the same time you used to only be able to get two attacks in that time span.

 

Let's say in that same time span you can get another attack. This added attack in that time span will in all likelihood make up for the reduced damage of ravage and possibly exceed it.

 

GCD 1 - Ravage - 12-13k

GCD 2 - Ravage -

GCD3 - Devastating blast- - 6k

13/6

Total Damage 19k

 

5.0

GCD1 - Ravage 10-11k

GCD2 - Devastating blast - 6k

GCD3 - Basic Attack - 3 to 3.8k

 

Total Damage - 11/6/3 =20k

 

That's also a lowball 3rd GCD, you could use a more damaging attack if applicable.

 

I mean, Im just speculating here, based on a reasonable assumption.

 

Ravage/Flamethrower damage could be a nerf but it may possibly be a dps gain overall.

 

Than again, I could be totally wrong in this conjecture. I am myself oftentimes awed by my own stupidity =]

Edited November 6, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[trashy_spartan]

Quoting Bant :

There are major over compensations in nerfed coefficients for removing the channels on Ravage and Searing Wave (formerly Flamethrower). Ravage hits for the same damage as a wet noodle (super nerfed coefficients; the total damage dealt is less than current damage of only the first 2 hits: less than 8k total for 3 hits) and negatively affects the dps of all Marauder and Juggernaut classes.Searing Wave Flamethrower does only a single hit (down from 4), does less damage than 2 hits of flame thrower and costs 40% more energy per GCD.

[MixWeidner]

Quoting Bant :

 

So new FT will hit for around 6-7k when fully buffed.

Damage bonus it provides for next Immolate is 20%, so it's about 2k.

Slight overall damage nerf remains anyway.

Edited November 6, 2016 by MixWeidner

[trashy_spartan]

I might add that searing wave will still spread incendiary missile while becoming an instant conic aoe. IMO, dot spreading is going to suck very hard.

And if you don't trust me, go play lethality.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Quoting Bant :

 

Thanks for sharing that. I must have missed it.

 

This makes the benefit of not having the channel pointless. That's great and all that you don't have to stay still for a second and a half, but it's not worth the dps loss. I rather have the channel in that case, we've gotten along with the channel okay for the last 5 years.

 

This might be worth it for PVP, but for PVE it's not.

 

I'm still hopeful that being able to get off three attacks in the time we can only do two attacks presently will offset the damage loss from ravage.

 

If BW thinks that this is going to make players happy because they have been asking for an insta-cast on these abilities, I think they're sorely mistaken. I find their monstrously bad taste in revisions for 5.0 dumbfounding.

 

I've been somewhat on the fence about whether to stay in the game or cancel my subscription and leave the game when 5.0 hits because of the new gearing system and the gutting of progression raiding and end game PVP. This damage nerf [if it proves to be so over all] will be the last nail in the coffin.

 

I will definitely miss the game if it comes to that, no doubt about it, but, F'k BW.

Edited November 6, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[MixWeidner]

So, after some testing, I can say that after damage nerf to FT, there is currently no reason to play Pyrotech in PVP.

[Feddot]

What have they done with pyro .... It was so fun spec to play. Yes, it was weak, but still fun. But now, our iconic ability ... WHY, i ask you, WHY did BW remove it ?! Using FT on several people was the key reason, why i played this spec. But BW thinks other way. First they nerf it to the ground, now completly remove it. GJ, BW, GJ. And what is more sad, that community had a lot of ideas, how to fix FT, like make it 1.5 sec channel cast or allow it on the move. But oF COURSE BW knows better. Well, at least we can congratulate them for finishing their job, which they started in 3.0. Pyro is officialy dead. Well played, BW.

 

PS

I found nice video from the old times, for those, who did not understand, why i am so upset

 

PPS

Sorry for bad english.

[Taankjr]

Yeah. I loved my AP PT. Taking away flamethrower and replacing it with searing wave and its awful animation... man, who came up with this idea? But it doesn't seem like anyone in the community cares about this except for a few people, why would BioWare care?

 

Edit: not to mention that new AOE ...

Edited December 24, 2016 by Taankjr

[Ottoattack]

Considering how poorly Pyro PT was performing since 3.0 removing flame thrower was a step in the right direction. The expectation though was that the damage will be redistributed among other skills, which did not happen. Instead we got a wet noodle aoe with one objective, spread the dots. Anyway, its not like the game has devs or testing. So, Pyro is condmend to being mediocre for the life expectancy of this game, which should not be that long now.

[Combi]

Dear AP PTs,

 

What are you picking as utilities for solo warzones?

I was thinking about this:

Iron Will, Gyroscopic Alignment Jets

Sonic Rebounder, Prototype Electro Surge

Enchanced Paralytics, Efficient Suit

Overdrive aaaand I'm in trouble with the last. No idea what to pick for last slot. Torque Boosters? Mutilating Shards? Shield Cannon?

[Bonzenaattori]

Hmm... *reads Pulse Generator*

 

Ion Pulse, Explosive Surge and Plasma Flare grant Pulse Generator, increasing the damage your next Ion Wave deals by 20%, causing it to slow affected targets by 45%, and making it immune to interrupts. This effect can stack up to 2 times.

 

:thinking:

Instant cast ability immune to interrupts... well that smarts

 

Pull and Pummel

Harpoon deals 1910-2101 tech damage to pulled targets and grants Pull and Pummel, causing your next Stockstrike or Shockstrike against the pulled target to deal 20% additional kinetic damage and stun the target for 1.5 seconds. This effect lasts for 6 seconds

 

:thinking:

Making the 2 second root redundant

 

Smothering Slag

Flak Shell reduces the movement speed of all affected targets by 75% for 15 sceonds.

 

:thinking:

Doesn't effect or synergize with Pulse Generator

 

Yeah this class gets a loooooot of love

Edited January 12, 2017 by Bonzenaattori

[Arehonn]

I feel like the AOE on Ion Wave doesn't hit as many targets as it should when compared to Pulse Cannon.

 

And as noted in the above post, they've made a kind of wonky, niche spec even more wonky with the redundancy in the overlapping of class + utility perks and the non relevance in certain passive abilities.

[Arehonn]

I also feel that because of the animation of Ion Wave, I'm missing more than I should if I'm on a slightly higher elevated level than my target. Ion Wave causes the blaster rifle to rise up while Pulse Cannon's animation, you crouched a little bit. It just feels off.

[MixWeidner]

How can Searing Wave and Firestorm be fixed? First of all, I think Searing Wave must hit harder, especially when buffed with Superheated Flamethrower. I think it must hit for 15-18k in Pyro spec (in warzones). Secondly, it must become chanelled ability again, but this time it could be casted on move and, most important, require a selected target to hit. Of course, it still remains an AOE ability, but you won't miss whole damage just because some sorc of merc knocked everyone on your way. Same changes to Firestorm, but, of course, lower cast time and a bit more damage, maybe 25k.

 

Speaking of Pyro spec in general, I think that our DoTs could use some buff, especially Scorch. In my opinion, its damage must be doubled at least. I don't think its duration should be lowered, because it makes this DoT kinda unique.

[MixWeidner]

Dear AP PTs,

 

What are you picking as utilities for solo warzones?

I was thinking about this:

Iron Will, Gyroscopic Alignment Jets

Sonic Rebounder, Prototype Electro Surge

Enchanced Paralytics, Efficient Suit

Overdrive aaaand I'm in trouble with the last. No idea what to pick for last slot. Torque Boosters? Mutilating Shards? Shield Cannon?

 

I don't run solo ranked (because it's non-existent o my server), but for regs in AP spec I run this set-up:

SKILLFUL: Iron Will (obvious), Bracer Propellant (meh, but no better choice). I don't run Gyroscopic Alignment Jets because I never get heat issues. Though 10% damage boost makes it more useful.

MASTERFUL: Sonic Rebouder (maybe it helps my teammates a bit), then either Pyro Shield and Prototype Electro Surge.

HEROIC: Torque Boosters (more mobility) and Efficient Suit. I don't run Enhanced Paralytics because its buff is too small compared to gained mobility with Torque Boosters.

LEGENDARY: Overdrive and either Shield Cannon or Reel and Rattle. Shield Cannon heals are laughable, but it helps a bit our worst defensives, especially in AP. Reel and Rattle mostly because it basically gives you third stun, so more crowd control.

[FLScuddie]

too bad the hitbox for it is wonky as hell. You can blast it into a huge group of guys, and sometimes not register a hit on anybody.