DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Well, that was more in line with the original LIs. I don't even think the newer LIs talk about such things, do they? No, but it'd be nice. What makes you think I am mad? The color? I always use red as it is my favorite color. If that is all you can say about my comment then it means you have nothing to dispute them with. You made a choice when you made the character, live with it. It really is that simple. Was loving him red? Lol! 😂 Edited November 2, 2016 by DarthEnrique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Edit: Moved to above. Edited November 2, 2016 by DarthEnrique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 For companion conversations, when they talk about having children would be one of the first ones where gender would play a part in the conversaion. "You can have our kids" doesn't work when a player switches from a female to male character. Ever heard of artificial insemination or adoption? I have a child, I'm a lesbian, I've never had sex with a man, was it immaculate conception? You'd think that with all the "advanced" technology the Star Wars universe has, that there would be ways around your assumption that gender would be an issue when it came to children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's definitely more egalitarian than real life. Women are more equal in Star Wars because they also have the might of the force - you see a lot more women in positions of power than in real life. More female power and acceptance = less of a stigma of being considered effeminate/gay. And more people would play a LBGTQ character than they would be irl, so it isn't about mirroring the real world. But really, at this point, it doesn't matter. We're not even going to get most of our original LI"s back , gay or straight, anytime soon. I see about a .00004% chance of them going back to modify the original content, unless it is to remove things for "streamlining". Agreed, as much as I'd like them to change the vanilla to that option, it's not likely to happen. So the solution would be allowing people to swap once they've finished the vanilla companion stories. It's not like it really matters because you lose companions and also romance new ones. Just about any companion story becomes obsolete once you start 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 What makes you think I am mad? The color? I always use red as it is my favorite color. If that is all you can say about my comment then it means you have nothing to dispute them with. You made a choice when you made the character, live with it. It really is that simple. It was the capitals and the wording. It came across as agressive. And yeah, the red didn't help, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Ever heard of artificial insemination or adoption? I have a child, I'm a lesbian, I've never had sex with a man, was it immaculate conception? You'd think that with all the "advanced" technology the Star Wars universe has, that there would be ways around your assumption that gender would be an issue when it came to children. Not how the conversations play out. One even says "We can't have kids together, but we could adopt" So, it's not like they haven't thought of this in the story. I'm not saying, making it is bad. All I'm saying, is certain conversations wouldn't work, if they're tired to the creation to begin with. Are companion conversations tied to the gender you originally chose? If so, that could through it off. "You're a beautiful lady captain." (from Corso) could end up keeping such a line if gender swapped. We have no idea how things are tied to conversations and such. Now, if that is such a problem, something that may be a work around for it all, is companion conversations could maybe be reset, every time you swap genders. However, speaking of advanced technology doesn't work. Just because they have advanced technology, doesn't mean they've figured all these things out. Not likely in this case, but saying "they have advanced tech" doesn't mean much, we we see they haven't done some things. Like invent jeans. It took a long forgotten species to invent any form of teleportation (at least in TOR) by no mention of it anywhere else. All that advanced tech and they can't make walker that can handle uneven terrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The sex swap could still be done in vanilla if they took the flags out and just made it unisex. It's not technically impossible as others have indicated. All that is needed is a few lines or changes of code that stop it asking "is this a male character or is it a female one". ie change from "if x=x, then do 'a' and "if x=y, then do 'b'... to "if x or y =x, then do 'a' or 'b'. That is an over simplification, obviously real coding is different. But I do coding and it's not hard to change flags. It might take some time though, but that's what interns and plebs are for. As long as they test properly it before it went live, then it wouldn't need to even cost much to implement. If this was another game with a different engine, I'd completely agree with you on this point. But considering one of the recent coding issues was adding Senya's Pike which played havoc with the Nathema Zealot outfit, it's just one more bit of proof that the coding for SWTOR's pretty much held together with spit and iffy duct tape and I get a vibe from the current devs that it's an unofficial 'don't touch it unless it explodes' policy with the coding as it is. Granted it's not STO level of breaking such as the add some ship stuff and completely break the auction house, and while to us it seems like a simple matter of tweaking the flags, it's probably a bigger convoluted mess within the code here so doing something like tweaking the flags ends up breaking all the romances in game whether someone took a sex change option or not. Another point to consider is even if there's a huge pop up notice taking up most of the screen with attention grabbing blinkies flashing and stating that one has to click confirm on multiple times that clearly states that taking a sex change option breaks any class companion romance and/or can only be used after class story completion, there's still going to be people getting upset that they lost the romance they had or wondering why they can't use it during the class stories and raging about it. Not to mention implementing it would also get the usual complaining about wasting dev resources on something like this compared to other game content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 If this was another game with a different engine, I'd completely agree with you on this point. But considering one of the recent coding issues was adding Senya's Pike which played havoc with the Nathema Zealot outfit, it's just one more bit of proof that the coding for SWTOR's pretty much held together with spit and iffy duct tape and I get a vibe from the current devs that it's an unofficial 'don't touch it unless it explodes' policy with the coding as it is. Granted it's not STO level of breaking such as the add some ship stuff and completely break the auction house, and while to us it seems like a simple matter of tweaking the flags, it's probably a bigger convoluted mess within the code here so doing something like tweaking the flags ends up breaking all the romances in game whether someone took a sex change option or not. Another point to consider is even if there's a huge pop up notice taking up most of the screen with attention grabbing blinkies flashing and stating that one has to click confirm on multiple times that clearly states that taking a sex change option breaks any class companion romance and/or can only be used after class story completion, there's still going to be people getting upset that they lost the romance they had or wondering why they can't use it during the class stories and raging about it. Not to mention implementing it would also get the usual complaining about wasting dev resources on something like this compared to other game content. That's been going on since 4.0 came out though that something new released would break something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 If this was another game with a different engine, I'd completely agree with you on this point. But considering one of the recent coding issues was adding Senya's Pike which played havoc with the Nathema Zealot outfit, it's just one more bit of proof that the coding for SWTOR's pretty much held together with spit and iffy duct tape and I get a vibe from the current devs that it's an unofficial 'don't touch it unless it explodes' policy with the coding as it is. Granted it's not STO level of breaking such as the add some ship stuff and completely break the auction house, and while to us it seems like a simple matter of tweaking the flags, it's probably a bigger convoluted mess within the code here so doing something like tweaking the flags ends up breaking all the romances in game whether someone took a sex change option or not. Another point to consider is even if there's a huge pop up notice taking up most of the screen with attention grabbing blinkies flashing and stating that one has to click confirm on multiple times that clearly states that taking a sex change option breaks any class companion romance and/or can only be used after class story completion, there's still going to be people getting upset that they lost the romance they had or wondering why they can't use it during the class stories and raging about it. Not to mention implementing it would also get the usual complaining about wasting dev resources on something like this compared to other game content. The devs could consider it doable, but not profitable enough to make it worth while and that could be the technical issues with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I was just going off the top of my head for a recent example most here would be familiar with. And I do genuinely think if they offered a sex change token, it would sell though I haven't a clue how profitable it would be. I was also thinking of when the discussion of SGR with class companions have come up before, one of the suggestions has been to just tweak the flags to have it happen and that's what's been said as to why doing what seems like a completely reasonable and doable option might not be so doable as we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The devs could consider it doable, but not profitable enough to make it worth while and that could be the technical issues with it. Good point... still... would have been nice if they had thought about the LGBT community when making the class stories instead of making non-flirtable companions because of gender but hey we got Theron so at least they are learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Not how the conversations play out. One even says "We can't have kids together, but we could adopt" So, it's not like they haven't thought of this in the story. I'm not saying, making it is bad. All I'm saying, is certain conversations wouldn't work, if they're tired to the creation to begin with. Are companion conversations tied to the gender you originally chose? If so, that could through it off. "You're a beautiful lady captain." (from Corso) could end up keeping such a line if gender swapped. We have no idea how things are tied to conversations and such. Now, if that is such a problem, something that may be a work around for it all, is companion conversations could maybe be reset, every time you swap genders. However, speaking of advanced technology doesn't work. Just because they have advanced technology, doesn't mean they've figured all these things out. Not likely in this case, but saying "they have advanced tech" doesn't mean much, we we see they haven't done some things. Like invent jeans. It took a long forgotten species to invent any form of teleportation (at least in TOR) by no mention of it anywhere else. All that advanced tech and they can't make walker that can handle uneven terrain You've obviously never hung out with gay people. We use the same sort of language as hetero people, ie let's "have" kids together or let's "have" children. To us it's implied that it would be artificial or adoption, it doesn't need to be specified, but I can see how you might not understand. I've refuted all your arguments rationally, now you want to try and draw it out with "just because they have advanced technology, doesn't mean they've figured it all out" I mean really, is that all you've got? It's a fictional world with spaceships, the force (Anikan was created by the force ) and bacta tanks and Darth Vader suits and you're trying to argue wether they've figured it out:rolleyes: Edited November 2, 2016 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Good point... still... would have been nice if they had thought about the LGBT community when making the class stories instead of making non-flirtable companions because of gender but hey we got Theron so at least they are learning. I believe they did. Then someone in some area of the company said "Let's not" for whatever reason, and it all dealt with money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I believe they did. Then someone in some area of the company said "Let's not" for whatever reason, and it all dealt with money. Money my eye... lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Good point... still... would have been nice if they had thought about the LGBT community when making the class stories instead of making non-flirtable companions because of gender but hey we got Theron so at least they are learning. From my understanding with reading up on the subject over the years, it sounds like Bioware was all for including them but it was Lucas who had an issue with it. I find it plausible considering from my stint years back writing fanfic, it was well known that Lucas had some very serious issues with certain content like human/alien romances and did go ballistic over one that was featured in one of the then EU books and ordered it quashed. As much as Disney does catch flack over the family friendly issue, they're pretty open to allowing SGR and all. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware did figure they could retweak things after the Disney buyout and planned on it but once they started looking into the coding they realized it wasn't as doable as they hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 You've obviously never hung out with gay people. We use the same sort of language as hetero people, ie let's "have" kids together or let's "have" children. To us it's implied that it would be artificial or adoption, it doesn't need to be specified, but I can see how you might not understand. I've refuted all your arguments rationally, now you want to try and draw it out with "just because they have advanced technology, doesn't mean they've figured it all out" I mean really, is that all you've got? It's a fictional world with spaceships, the force (Anikan was created by the force ) and bacta tanks and Darth Vader suits and you're trying to argue wether they've figured it out:rolleyes: Wow. Would ever be so wrong. You like to assume much? Wow. No. I said the conversations state things a certain way, and I was right about the conversations using gender noun, to which you said they didn't. The comment about advanced tech doesn't work, as advanced tech doesn't mean "created everything the imagination could possibly think of" was just a side comment brought about by your comment. Everyone likes to say "Oh! Such and such setting is so advanced, they must have invented such and such." Anyone who's seen sliders, can tell you, that's not always the case with the technological advanced. Sliders showed one such episode, where things where advanced, but they didn't invent penicillin. Something I've never read in any of the books (which I haven't read all, so could have been mentioned) is any mention of invitro, but they do mention clones. Which means, we could make little clones of ourselves, but they don't known how to implant the embryo Or one can jump to the assumption they can just do everything we can, only better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Money my eye... lol! I believe every choice they've made with this game has been done, right or wrong, with the mentality that such and such choice, will gain or lose money. After taking a big enough hit to their "this will make money" they then moved on to other choices to try and compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 From my understanding with reading up on the subject over the years, it sounds like Bioware was all for including them but it was Lucas who had an issue with it. I find it plausible considering from my stint years back writing fanfic, it was well known that Lucas had some very serious issues with certain content like human/alien romances and did go ballistic over one that was featured in one of the then EU books and ordered it quashed. As much as Disney does catch flack over the family friendly issue, they're pretty open to allowing SGR and all. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware did figure they could retweak things after the Disney buyout and planned on it but once they started looking into the coding they realized it wasn't as doable as they hoped. Ummm didn't RotHC and SoR happen before Disney bought SW? Cause I know it started in Makeb as I can't remember the Sith's name was flirtable with both male and female on Makeb along with the female he served, I remember this very specifically because it was the first light side choice my Sith Inquisitor made to save his life and then after that SoR had Theron and Lana as flirtable for both male and female characters and Koth and Senya were added recently. Though why anyone would flirt with either one of them... *Shivers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Ummm didn't RotHC and SoR happen before Disney bought SW? Cause I know it started in Makeb as I can't remember the Sith's name was flirtable with both male and female on Makeb along with the female he served, I remember this very specifically because it was the first light side choice my Sith Inquisitor made to save his life and then after that SoR had Theron and Lana as flirtable for both male and female characters and Koth and Senya were added recently. Though why anyone would flirt with either one of them... *Shivers* I honestly don't remember as those came out after I'd quit the game and was still annoyed by my experience to not even read up on what was going on with the game other than hearing quite a bit of upset at "So Makeb's the only planet with gay people...way to go Bioware..." that was reported elsewhere. For the time of the buyout, I more remember everyone wailing over "Darth Mickey" and the possible Disneyfying of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Ummm didn't RotHC and SoR happen before Disney bought SW? Cause I know it started in Makeb as I can't remember the Sith's name was flirtable with both male and female on Makeb along with the female he served, I remember this very specifically because it was the first light side choice my Sith Inquisitor made to save his life and then after that SoR had Theron and Lana as flirtable for both male and female characters and Koth and Senya were added recently. Though why anyone would flirt with either one of them... *Shivers* Disney started to buy SW in 2012, Makeb happened in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) I honestly don't remember as those came out after I'd quit the game and was still annoyed by my experience to not even read up on what was going on with the game other than hearing quite a bit of upset at "So Makeb's the only planet with gay people...way to go Bioware..." that was reported elsewhere. For the time of the buyout, I more remember everyone wailing over "Darth Mickey" and the possible Disneyfying of the franchise. Nope you were right my bad, 2012 Disney buys Lucasfilms and LucasArts Rise of the Hutt Cartel comes in 2013. And Disney didn't Disneyfy the franchise? Revan is no longer canon thanks to them... Edited November 2, 2016 by DarthEnrique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Good point... still... would have been nice if they had thought about the LGBT community when making the class stories instead of making non-flirtable companions because of gender but hey we got Theron so at least they are learning. Something that isn't widely known is that in the alpha/beta stage of development there was LG options. I can't even find any references anymore when I search for it. But the American Christian Right found out and made a fuss and threatened to protest the game and tell people to boycott it. This was obviously before Disney took over and Bioware got nervous and changed it. (you've noticed that the same gender romance changed when Disney took over for 3.0) Sometimes when you play through the same gender parts of the companion stories you can see where they "may" have changed it or where it could easily have gone the other way Kaliyo is a prime example of this if you play a female character, right up to the part where she says she doesn't swing that way, I was sure I was going to be able to romance her properly. I was so excited to see LG content and then royally let down. (It's like trying to pick up a girl you're sure is a lesbian, but turns out to be a Faux Mo) I'm not too sure about the male character arc because I've only got 2 and they've been LvLd in pvp. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Nope you were right my bad, 2012 Disney buys Lucasfilms and LucasArts Rise of the Hutt Cartel comes in 2013. And Disney didn't Disneyfy the franchise? Revan is no longer canon thanks to them... I've never been clear as what specifically makes things Disneyfied. Going from my friends who were in full wail and gnashing teeth mode, I figured it was making any future Star Wars films G-rated. As far as Revan goes, what was seen here in game was NOT my Revan who was a woman, so the guy claiming to be Revan was an imposter or delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Wow. Would ever be so wrong. You like to assume much? Wow. No. I said the conversations state things a certain way, and I was right about the conversations using gender noun, to which you said they didn't. The comment about advanced tech doesn't work, as advanced tech doesn't mean "created everything the imagination could possibly think of" was just a side comment brought about by your comment. Everyone likes to say "Oh! Such and such setting is so advanced, they must have invented such and such." Anyone who's seen sliders, can tell you, that's not always the case with the technological advanced. Sliders showed one such episode, where things where advanced, but they didn't invent penicillin. Something I've never read in any of the books (which I haven't read all, so could have been mentioned) is any mention of invitro, but they do mention clones. Which means, we could make little clones of ourselves, but they don't known how to implant the embryo Or one can jump to the assumption they can just do everything we can, only better! Why are we even arguing about this still. We both know there are very easy and plausible ways to do it. I'm not going to keep arguing for the sake of arguing and repeating myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Something that isn't widely known is that in the alpha/beta stage of development there was LG options. I can't even find any references anymore when I search for it. But the American Christian Right found out and made a fuss and threatened to protest the game and tell people to boycott it. This was obviously before Disney took over and Bioware got nervous and changed it. (you've noticed that the same gender romance changed when Disney took over for 3.0) Sometimes when you play through the same gender parts of the companion stories you can see where they "may" have changed it or where it could easily have gone the other way Kaliyo is a prime example of this if you play a female character, right up to the part where she says she doesn't swing that way, I was sure I was going to be able to romance her properly. I was so excited to see LG content and then royally let down. (It's like trying to pick up a girl you're sure is a lesbian, but turns out to be a Faux Mo) I'm not too sure about the male character arc because I've only got 2 and they've been LvLd in pvp. . Some pure blood Sith on Makeb then Theron in SoR and Koth in KOTFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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