Soul_of_Flames Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) They've been saying that the reason why they are doing the galactic command and command crate system was, not only a way to get people to play more of the game, but also to make it easier and simpler for people to get gear. That's fine. However, I believe that this is only a good idea on paper. Once this goes live, we are going to see that it's going to have the opposite effect on people playing the game's more varied content. Ok, so just follow my reasoning with this: Currently, operations are the only way to get the best end-game gear in the game. Certain pieces of gear drop from specific bosses, and that is the reason people play those operations to try and defeat those specific bosses and get the gear they want. But, now that command crates give you all the gear you could want (abet randomly), there is no incentive to do things like Hard (veteran) or Nightmare (master) operations... or even just the harder Story mode operations. Why would anyone bother wasting their time on progressing through harder content for gear when all they have to do is farm EV/KP (or other similarly farmable non-operation content)? So far BW has not said anything about the specifics of CXP earnings except that you should gain about a pack an hour, on average. But that translates to making all the game's content normalized. They have said more difficult stuff will earn CXP faster, but what's the difference between hard mode Soa and hard mode Revan in terms of CXP gain? I mean, sure, there are still lockouts... but people already farm the ops they can do for gear on a weekly basis. They are used to earning gear on a lockout-rotation. But now that you can get ALL the gear just doing the EASY stuff, you're going to see a DRAMATIC decrease in the number of people willing to do the harder content. In fact, the only reason I see people wanting to do harder content is just for the sake of doing it... and that's a one-off goal. Also, there is currently the mentality in the game when it comes to more casual progression: "If I can just earn a bit more gear, I'll be able to do X content and finally get that piece I want." Well if you can get all the gear you want from easy stuff, not only will you not need to do X content, but you wont want to because the easier stuff has already made you strong enough. - Why leave on a journey to get a reward when you can just buy the same reward in your home town? Edited October 23, 2016 by Soul_of_Flames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaticFringer Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) This is basically a rehash of a few of the threads going and I pretty much agree with you on what you're saying. I prefer my loot staying the way it is because the system they have right now... works pretty well and is extremely streamlined from what it was before. I'm very, very, very angry about it and I can see a lot of other subs are too. Contrary to belief, they can and probably should put that part of this xpac on hold due to the reaction of their playerbase right now. Yes, you're only hearing the what translates to the vocal crowd here on the forums... but for every one of us there are probably two, three, or more fellow gamers in game that don't use the forums that agree with us. I know, I've had the same feedback from players on my server that kind of call the forums a joke. The incentive for me to do anything right now is because I know how the gearing system works so I try and do 'x' OP or save up crystals to get gear that is good enough to get me in so I can progress. I didn't like RNG bags when they had them before... and I don't like them now. Now if their goal is to make sure every player gets "equal" reward. Then just make OPs bosses drop the same piece for every member in the raid and that'd do a lot of what they're doing now without gutting the game. If a push out of this is beyond stopping as far as everyone is concerned-- then they need to tweak it in such a way that they can leave everything they've worked on in and leave our current system alone too. Just move some Cartel Market items and/or make some other reward for those Command Boxes. Because this is basically turning into a grand sweeping change very much like SWG's NGE. It's just not the classes getting gutted this time... it's the gearing system. I'd seriously repost in some of the other threads going about this as well. Edited October 23, 2016 by LunaticFringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfTython Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 5.0 Command Crates will REMOVE incentive to do game content Well just in case revenue is not as expected just lay off more employees in studios all over the world. Welcome to gaming industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well, it's really going to happen. So what are you going to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Going to disagree with you on one comment. Why would you do harder content when you can get the gear easier? Some people like a challenge so they will do the harder content. They are putting a toggle in as well so you can increase the difficulty if you want it. Some will not because they don't want the challenge, some will as they want something to be challenged for. As far as the gear, as I have said before no big deal to me what someone else has. I only have a problem with the RNG part other than that how someone else plays the game is up to them. Some like the easy road, some want the middle road and some really like things difficult. Everyone has a different way to play and I don't see this as any difference. It also may help people that want to do harder stuff but didn't want to group up without the gear. I know people that don't want to be a burden to a group so if they don't have the gear they won't group up for that content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Going to disagree with you on one comment. Why would you do harder content when you can get the gear easier? Some people like a challenge so they will do the harder content. They are putting a toggle in as well so you can increase the difficulty if you want it. Some will not because they don't want the challenge, some will as they want something to be challenged for. As far as the gear, as I have said before no big deal to me what someone else has. I only have a problem with the RNG part other than that how someone else plays the game is up to them. Some like the easy road, some want the middle road and some really like things difficult. Everyone has a different way to play and I don't see this as any difference. It also may help people that want to do harder stuff but didn't want to group up without the gear. I know people that don't want to be a burden to a group so if they don't have the gear they won't group up for that content. +1 Gear acquisition should not be the SOLE reason why a player participates in Ops. If it is then all one ever had to run was EV/KP HM during priority weeks (11 of 14 slots and six piece set bonus drop from those two ops). And therefore OP, your point is moot. Edited October 23, 2016 by psandak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfTython Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Why would you do harder content when you can get the gear easier? Some people like a challenge so they will do the harder content. The emphasis here is on "some" because majority of gamers in MMOs tend to go the easiest way to achieve their goals and incentives. Thats the main issue with 5.0 and something EA/BW should have known better as one of the experienced leaders in this business. Edited October 23, 2016 by KnightOfTython Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keimanna Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 The emphasis here is on "some" because majority of gamers in MMOs tend to go the easiest way to achieve their goals and incentives. Thats the main issue with 5.0 and something EA/BW should have known better as one of the experienced leaders in this business. This is confusing. You're actually making the case for EXACTLY why this was done. They are: a) focusing on "majority" of players and b) intentionally shifting away from Ops-type content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) The emphasis here is on "some" because majority of gamers in MMOs tend to go the easiest way to achieve their goals and incentives. Thats the main issue with 5.0 and something EA/BW should have known better as one of the experienced leaders in this business. Guess it depends on the people you know and play with. Most of the people I know like a challenge. As far as someone I don't know, it's their choice how to play the game. Just as there are people in life that want things handed to them, there are those that will work for things. I don't worry about someone I don't know as what they do doesn't affect me. Edited October 23, 2016 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 This is confusing. You're actually making the case for EXACTLY why this was done. They are: a) focusing on "majority" of players and b) intentionally shifting away from Ops-type content. It seems pretty obvious that this is the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baraxis Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 This is confusing. You're actually making the case for EXACTLY why this was done. They are: a) focusing on "majority" of players and b) intentionally shifting away from Ops-type content. The Mojority's Time has finally come around. Someone finally gets it. People dont want to be rushed through cut scenes or ram-rodded throough fights in the "elite" ops. Good luck getting additional people in your ops folks. We dont need you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfTython Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) You're actually making the case for EXACTLY why this was done. Doubtful for one reason, EA/BW is trying to stay a global player in MMO market for 2017. It's common sense that they can't with a single player concept only. Indeed the announcement of 5.0 was not the best way how to make marketing for an MMO. So apparently something goes terribly wrong at the moment or they do have some other plans that are just not official yet. Edited October 23, 2016 by KnightOfTython Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monster_cody Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 honestly in my case getting gear from ops is the only reason why i even bother getting in groups for ops i have seen the same bosses for the past 4 years so yeah thats the only reason for me to bother with doing ops at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Ziva Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I think I disagree with the OP on this. Outside of DvL, I don't remember when the last time was I did a SM Op. Why? I don't need any gear from it. Now that I can get Command Crates from it, it actually gives me incentive to do SM Ops again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Once this goes live, we are going to see that it's going to have the opposite effect on people playing the game's more varied content. Any player that requires the gear for higher end content is simply going to aim for best time / gearing ratio content. Looks like it'll probably be operations, the rest of the games content will be irrelevant until those players have the gear they need to just play and enjoy the game. The whole system is flawed, BioWare can't seem to see why though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Any player that requires the gear for higher end content is simply going to aim for best time / gearing ratio content. Looks like it'll probably be operations, the rest of the games content will be irrelevant until those players have the gear they need to just play and enjoy the game. The whole system is flawed, BioWare can't seem to see why though. It won't be operations. There are 9 total sm ops. You can do them in 3 evenings. After that it'll be heroics, flashpoints uprisings... And to be honest i'm pretty sure that grinding elite+ mobs will be the fastest way. So expect a grindfest at killik zone on alderaan and some other spawn locations. I've already seen this in multiple games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keimanna Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Doubtful for one reason, EA/BW is trying to stay a global player in MMO market for 2017. It's common sense that they can't with a single player concept only. Indeed the announcement of 5.0 was not the best way how to make marketing for an MMO. So apparently something goes terribly wrong at the moment or they do have some other plans that are just not official yet. Or the way to stay relevant is to cater to a single-player base and own/create the Single-Player MMO segment of the MMO market. MMO no longer needs to mean raids/ops with many players - SWTOR is showing that it can also mean story-driven single player content, with many people willing to pay (sub or CM or both) for access to the online game. As a PvPer, I don't like it, but is what it is. I have no doubt that their metrics suggest that the large majority of players who play this game (and pay consistently) do not do Ops, ranked PvP, etc. Could be a chicken/egg question as to why that is. But there is little doubt that the direction this game is heading in is single-player and "common sense" says that's because this is where EA sees the "money". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Or the way to stay relevant is to cater to a single-player base and own/create the Single-Player MMO segment of the MMO market. MMO no longer needs to mean raids/ops with many players - SWTOR is showing that it can also mean story-driven single player content, with many people willing to pay (sub or CM or both) for access to the online game. As a PvPer, I don't like it, but is what it is. I have no doubt that their metrics suggest that the large majority of players who play this game (and pay consistently) do not do Ops, ranked PvP, etc. Could be a chicken/egg question as to why that is. But there is little doubt that the direction this game is heading in is single-player and "common sense" says that's because this is where EA sees the "money". Exactly this. There are a lot of threads that use OPs as a reason for why RNG is bad. Somehow this forums made them feel like it is all about operations... it is not. The majority of the gamers is casual. They are the standard. If they were all doing OPs than we would have more new OPs. Simple as that. Because in contrast to popular opinion, BW is not stupid and do have reasons for the decisions they make. Casuals do not care about min/maxing, they are not going to spend hours a day trying to get that last piece of armor, relic or whatever. They play the game to have fun, not to get the best gear possible. Because they know they do not have the time/patience/focus to do hours and hours of OPs. Heck, I am a casual player and the only reason I am on this forum is because I used to be far more active. This system might just be better for casuals because it actually gives them alternative ways to get to the best gear. The Command Crates are going to INCREASE players doing different gaming content. At least initially. I expect a lot more GSF for instance because people now have a reason to try it out. Same might go for PvP and even OPs. At its core, I think it is a pretty smart system. I do not know about the RNG yet, that has to prove itself in practice. But from where I am standing, this Command system...is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well, considering the fact that when you reach level 70, flashpoints, operations, heroics, dailies, uprisings, story chapters, warzone pvp and GSF (which is pretty much all the content) will go towards the CXP, which then gives you the crates. So, it will increase incentives to do ALL the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well, considering the fact that when you reach level 70, flashpoints, operations, heroics, dailies, uprisings, story chapters, warzone pvp and GSF (which is pretty much all the content) will go towards the CXP, which then gives you the crates. So, it will increase incentives to do ALL the content. In theory, yes, but how many times are we actually going to have to repeat content in this game? I mean honestly, everything is just being rehashed, their is nothing new besides KOTET and uprisings for the moment. We have had years to do this content, we been there and done that for most of it. I would be fine if they revamped the system while also giving new content, but that isn't the case. I really wish they would try to make more content than continue rehashing old content. The only thing left after this is to reset all our toons to level one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well, considering the fact that when you reach level 70, flashpoints, operations, heroics, dailies, uprisings, story chapters, warzone pvp and GSF (which is pretty much all the content) will go towards the CXP, which then gives you the crates. So, it will increase incentives to do ALL the content. No, it will increase the incentives to do the content that gives most cxp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 No, it will increase the incentives to do the content that gives most cxp Wouldn't it technically be the most effective content that is the easiest? IE killing elite mobs on Alderaan or kamikaze dive bombing in GSF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Wouldn't it technically be the most effective content that is the easiest? IE killing elite mobs on Alderaan or kamikaze dive bombing in GSF? That's exactly what i suspect will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfTython Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Or the way to stay relevant is to cater to a single-player base and own/create the Single-Player MMO segment of the MMO market. MMO no longer needs to mean raids/ops with many players Beside the fact that your definition and understanding of Massive Mutliplayer is quite off, why did they add NiM for OPs then? Edited October 23, 2016 by KnightOfTython Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well, for me, i will encourage me to do them all.....except GSF.....nothing could get me to do that piece of trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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