I refuse to PVE so I can PVP......

[durhame]

Sorry BW/EA,

I am afraid that if this new gearing system goes live, I will leave the game. Here is the standard (for real) been playing since launch comment. I have been playing since launch, I read through the forums most days of the week and follow closely changes to the game. I dabble in the odd H2 solo just waiting for a WZ to pop but that is about it. I used to do some raiding. I used to do LOADS of dailies for the faction (this got massively boring). The only thrill that has kept me coming back was PVP.

 

I play usually a couple hours at night (family and work dependant) and don't really have much time for anything else. Sometimes I can manage 30mins of play, others 3hrs of play. Either case, all I want to do is PVP despite a deplorable game engine (GTX 970FTW 100+FPS full settings in fleet--------30-40fps in WZs), pretty much 0 open world pvp minus the Gree Event, and obvious class imbalances.

 

Family and work come first and I fit gaming in where I can. The current gearing system is by far the best system I have ever seen in any MMO/game (been playing loads and constant games since early EQ). The amount of time that it currently takes to get coms for gear is perfect. It allows us to focus on the pvp aspect and give us enough coms to gear an alt and try other things and play more aspects (toons) of the game. Bolster, however people think right wrong or indifferent, worked and gave people the opportunity to join in with no expertise gear needed and still be competitive. Where it failed miserably is with Devs/Producers/Managers NOT communicating HOW THE DOG GONE SYSTEM WORKS IN ANY FORM OR FASHION. All you had to do was tell (officially and not rely on players) everyone that PVEs, hey..... wear green mods and implants below this level (insert lvl here) and you will have pretty much MAX bolster minus the main/off hands. So easy to get this gear............. Put it in the help icon.

 

The bolster system took a LONG time for you to clear out and even then it still a little iffy in application but theory it is brilliant. POOR communication skills has caused this failure in PVP attendance among other things. And now, you want to remove Expertise from the game and allow people who basically live online, do dailies and raid and get biz gear for PVP? So, a player who only plays a couple hours a day and does nothing but PVP is to get owned because he or she can't stand raiding and doesn't have hours at a time to commit to rinse and repeat quests? I remember doing the daily cycles. I also remember literally falling asleep at my keyboard towards the end of doing them. And that is when I discovered PVP. Beautiful wonderful PVP. Where the map is the same but the content is always different. No programed mobs, just skill.

 

Yes I went rambling on but I guess this that important to me that you listen. I will not stay in this game any longer if I am forced to do PVE things to get Biz PVP gear. And, I will not allow myself to have to grind 2 or 3 times longer in PVP with a gear disadvantage with a RNG deciding my fate if I don't PVE.

 

I love Star Wars, story, lore, whole concept and yes despite some crazy changes you Devs/Producers have come up with in the past that have almost pushed me away, I have still stayed. You are littery going back to the stone age of MMOs if you implement this change and I refuse to pay or waist my time for this or a RNG.

[Icykill_]

Sorry BW/EA,

I am afraid that if this new gearing system goes live, I will leave the game. Here is the standard (for real) been playing since launch comment. I have been playing since launch, I read through the forums most days of the week and follow closely changes to the game. I dabble in the odd H2 solo just waiting for a WZ to pop but that is about it. I used to do some raiding. I used to do LOADS of dailies for the faction (this got massively boring). The only thrill that has kept me coming back was PVP.

 

I play usually a couple hours at night (family and work dependant) and don't really have much time for anything else. Sometimes I can manage 30mins of play, others 3hrs of play. Either case, all I want to do is PVP despite a deplorable game engine (GTX 970FTW 100+FPS full settings in fleet--------30-40fps in WZs), pretty much 0 open world pvp minus the Gree Event, and obvious class imbalances.

 

Family and work come first and I fit gaming in where I can. The current gearing system is by far the best system I have ever seen in any MMO/game (been playing loads and constant games since early EQ). The amount of time that it currently takes to get coms for gear is perfect. It allows us to focus on the pvp aspect and give us enough coms to gear an alt and try other things and play more aspects (toons) of the game. Bolster, however people think right wrong or indifferent, worked and gave people the opportunity to join in with no expertise gear needed and still be competitive. Where it failed miserably is with Devs/Producers/Managers NOT communicating HOW THE DOG GONE SYSTEM WORKS IN ANY FORM OR FASHION. All you had to do was tell (officially and not rely on players) everyone that PVEs, hey..... wear green mods and implants below this level (insert lvl here) and you will have pretty much MAX bolster minus the main/off hands. So easy to get this gear............. Put it in the help icon.

 

The bolster system took a LONG time for you to clear out and even then it still a little iffy in application but theory it is brilliant. POOR communication skills has caused this failure in PVP attendance among other things. And now, you want to remove Expertise from the game and allow people who basically live online, do dailies and raid and get biz gear for PVP? So, a player who only plays a couple hours a day and does nothing but PVP is to get owned because he or she can't stand raiding and doesn't have hours at a time to commit to rinse and repeat quests? I remember doing the daily cycles. I also remember literally falling asleep at my keyboard towards the end of doing them. And that is when I discovered PVP. Beautiful wonderful PVP. Where the map is the same but the content is always different. No programed mobs, just skill.

 

Yes I went rambling on but I guess this that important to me that you listen. I will not stay in this game any longer if I am forced to do PVE things to get Biz PVP gear. And, I will not allow myself to have to grind 2 or 3 times longer in PVP with a gear disadvantage with a RNG deciding my fate if I don't PVE.

 

I love Star Wars, story, lore, whole concept and yes despite some crazy changes you Devs/Producers have come up with in the past that have almost pushed me away, I have still stayed. You are littery going back to the stone age of MMOs if you implement this change and I refuse to pay or waist my time for this or a RNG.

 

Without reading all the way through.. I can still say I'm in the same boat as I only pvp and don't do pve.. this gear setup is just ridiculous... it will drive not only you, me, but also many other pvpers from the game... I cannot see how Bioware can think this is in the best interests of pvp

[Morrolan]

One thing that needs confirming is whether there is bolster at level 70 to narrow the differences in gear. I assume there won't be because bolster at max level was only used to allow for the lack of expertise on newbie max level players and this won't be required in 5.0. However it would be good to get a clear answer either way.

[Kheeleb]

Without reading all the way through.. I can still say I'm in the same boat as I only pvp and don't do pve.. this gear setup is just ridiculous... it will drive not only you, me, but also many other pvpers from the game... I cannot see how Bioware can think this is in the best interests of pvp

 

Same for me. I mainly pvp and the new gearing system is just piss poor compared to the current one.

 

The current one may not be perfect, but it worked well. Guess I have to move on. ESO looks very interesting, and The Secret World has a similar system to SW:ToRs bolster to keep players competitive.

[durhame]

Yeah.... sorry for the dissertation but I just want them to know just how serious the situation is. Well, at least for me anyway. 5 years playing a game and staying subbed is a long time.

 

I really can't help think this is similar to what the NGE was that Sony implemented for SWG and folks left in droves.

 

I'm sure they will see a spike in subs as the timing of the new SW film comes out but they more than likely won't last considering they are actually going backwards on MMO development in stead of being innovative.

Edited October 20, 2016 by durhame

[Wimbleton]

Yeah, its definitely a killer for me as well. I am someone who PVPs only. I don't do any dailies or flashpoints or raiding. I don't have time for it. I do love to PVP tho, and I only play games where the chance of min/maxing my character is a possibility. I'd not play any game that makes me PVE so I can min/max my PVP. Just not going to happen. Period.

[Soljin]

Yeah, its definitely a killer for me as well. I am someone who PVPs only. I don't do any dailies or flashpoints or raiding. I don't have time for it. I do love to PVP tho, and I only play games where the chance of min/maxing my character is a possibility. I'd not play any game that makes me PVE so I can min/max my PVP. Just not going to happen. Period.

 

 

I either missed something or you guys did....You can gear through PvP in 5.0 in regulars and even faster in Ranked....Granted the RNG aspect is garbage but gearing entirely through PvP is a viable option in 5.0....

[Primarch_PWnD]

I either missed something or you guys did....You can gear through PvP in 5.0 in regulars and even faster in Ranked....Granted the RNG aspect is garbage but gearing entirely through PvP is a viable option in 5.0....

 

On the surface it appears viable, but in reality it's going to destroy parity.

 

Sure you can gain CXP faster in ranked, but who wants to play ranked matches where all 8 people are in different stages of gearing themselves? At that point, what does ranking even mean? They implemented the expertise requirement just to stop gear differentials from happening, so they KNOW parity in ranked is essential.

 

Even in regs, it's simply not fun to utterly destroy someone because I have better gear. And the opposite is true too; it's not fun to be destroyed simply because my gear is not as good.

 

I'm in the same boat as the OP, this is unfortunately going to be it for my sub. I'm just not in a place where I want to play a game where I have to mindlessly and endlessly grind for RNG gear, only play PvP against a cluster-event of people all in various stages of gearing.

 

Say what you want about expertise gear, but the sheer ease of obtaining 2018 expertise helped provide a level playing field where SKILL was the most important factor, not gear differences.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Primarch_PWnD

[Jadescythe]

I think this mindset is blown slightly out of proportion until we see how quickly you earn gear from each method. You make it sound like you can't just PvP for your gear. And it's not like PvE players are all the sudden going to start PvPing just because they have better gear than you temporarily, not to mention I would still beat the crap out of them with worse gear anyway.

[durhame]

I'm not sticking around to see how easy it is to get gear because there is no PVP gear anymore. Ok so you can buy crafted gear. What fleet level do I have to be to wear it? So now I have to do PVE dailies or craft myself to earn enough come to buy said gear because sure as heck it will be bloody expensive as all crafted top gear has been. No throw in the utterly ridiculous lack of coms earned from PVPing. I am not going to play more matches over a longer period of time because I don't PVE.

[sumquy]

Sorry BW/EA,

I am afraid that if this new gearing system goes live, I will leave the game. Here is the standard (for real) been playing since launch comment. I have been playing since launch, I read through the forums most days of the week and follow closely changes to the game. I dabble in the odd H2 solo just waiting for a WZ to pop but that is about it. I used to do some raiding. I used to do LOADS of dailies for the faction (this got massively boring). The only thrill that has kept me coming back was PVP.

 

I play usually a couple hours at night (family and work dependant) and don't really have much time for anything else. Sometimes I can manage 30mins of play, others 3hrs of play. Either case, all I want to do is PVP despite a deplorable game engine (GTX 970FTW 100+FPS full settings in fleet--------30-40fps in WZs), pretty much 0 open world pvp minus the Gree Event, and obvious class imbalances.

 

Family and work come first and I fit gaming in where I can. The current gearing system is by far the best system I have ever seen in any MMO/game (been playing loads and constant games since early EQ). The amount of time that it currently takes to get coms for gear is perfect. It allows us to focus on the pvp aspect and give us enough coms to gear an alt and try other things and play more aspects (toons) of the game. Bolster, however people think right wrong or indifferent, worked and gave people the opportunity to join in with no expertise gear needed and still be competitive. Where it failed miserably is with Devs/Producers/Managers NOT communicating HOW THE DOG GONE SYSTEM WORKS IN ANY FORM OR FASHION. All you had to do was tell (officially and not rely on players) everyone that PVEs, hey..... wear green mods and implants below this level (insert lvl here) and you will have pretty much MAX bolster minus the main/off hands. So easy to get this gear............. Put it in the help icon.

 

The bolster system took a LONG time for you to clear out and even then it still a little iffy in application but theory it is brilliant. POOR communication skills has caused this failure in PVP attendance among other things. And now, you want to remove Expertise from the game and allow people who basically live online, do dailies and raid and get biz gear for PVP? So, a player who only plays a couple hours a day and does nothing but PVP is to get owned because he or she can't stand raiding and doesn't have hours at a time to commit to rinse and repeat quests? I remember doing the daily cycles. I also remember literally falling asleep at my keyboard towards the end of doing them. And that is when I discovered PVP. Beautiful wonderful PVP. Where the map is the same but the content is always different. No programed mobs, just skill.

 

Yes I went rambling on but I guess this that important to me that you listen. I will not stay in this game any longer if I am forced to do PVE things to get Biz PVP gear. And, I will not allow myself to have to grind 2 or 3 times longer in PVP with a gear disadvantage with a RNG deciding my fate if I don't PVE.

 

I love Star Wars, story, lore, whole concept and yes despite some crazy changes you Devs/Producers have come up with in the past that have almost pushed me away, I have still stayed. You are littery going back to the stone age of MMOs if you implement this change and I refuse to pay or waist my time for this or a RNG.

 

not to defend bw (since i am leaving also), but i think you are misunderstanding how the new gearing system will work. iiuc, everything you do will give command points (just like regular experience) and when you get enough cp to go up a command level you get a crate. the item in that crate is random for your advanced class and the level is determined by your current command point total. so if all you do is pvp, you will still get command points and gear, and if you keep doing it eventually you will get the best in game gear. afaik, they have not released any info on how many command points are earned for specific activities, but they did say that harder content pays more command points than easier. the real problem with this system is the random nature of the loot drops. always before, you could target your playtime towards earning a specific piece that you needed, but coming soontm you will have to pray to rngeezus.

Edited October 20, 2016 by sumquy

[AlrikFassbauer]

This thread's title :

 

I refuse to PVE so I can PVP

 

I could turn this around for the current state of PvP as well :

 

I refuse to PVP so I can PVP

 

You feel forced to do PvE - but you never had any problem with forcing PvEers to do PvP in order to PvP ... I mean, before Bolster, PvEers had to do PvP in order to get the best pvP gear ...

 

I just don't get it. Feeling intimidated here, but being happy to force others over there ...

[Soljin]

Straight up you don't have to PvE to get PvP gear or the reverse... 5.0 (with what we know) allows all players to gear how they want and participate in any aspect of the game they wish without a gear wall......RNG garbage aside.

 

So what is the actual complaint? Because when I point out the above fact some just start bringing up new arguments based off stuff we don't know yet......

 

If you are going to cancel without even checking it out fine, go for it...After it releases and curiosity gets the better of you re-subbing and starting behind everyone else will give the angry a new reason to hate the game.... its a win/win.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Soljin

[Amaste]

This thread's title :

 

 

 

I could turn this around for the current state of PvP as well :

 

 

 

You feel forced to do PvE - but you never had any problem with forcing PvEers to do PvP in order to PvP ... I mean, before Bolster, PvEers had to do PvP in order to get the best pvP gear ...

 

I just don't get it. Feeling intimidated here, but being happy to force others over there ...

 

Forcing PvE players to PvP in order to PvP...? Not sure where you're going with this. There's next to no benefits to doing PvP besides ranked rewards. It's not like NIM ops are valor locked forcing PvE players to play PvP maps, and raid gear is always a higher level than the PvP gear, so what has been forcing PvE players to play PvP outside their own desire the past few years? Conquest points every couple of weeks?

Edited October 20, 2016 by Amaste

[agusbust]

Yes, you can still get PvP gear by doing PvP.

 

But it's going to be way faster to do a HM or NiM ops to get the best gear than spamming PvP all the time. Ranked right now barely even pops anymore and, at least on my server, it pops because people get together and start advertising they're queing, that still only happens like once a week.

 

So hardcore PvPers, without a reliable amout of ranked pops, will be forced to do regs to get the best gear and, assuming by logic, that will take much, much longer than the people who do HM or NiM raids.

 

And let's imagine that ranked will pop fairly often. With how the matchmaking system worked in previous seasons regarding ELO (People with high ratings will get teamed together and go against those with lower rating. It happened a lot of times to me.) People with the higher gear will likely end up in the same team and go against those with lower gear. It's just going to be frustrating all around.

[Soljin]

Yes, you can still get PvP gear by doing PvP.

 

But it's going to be way faster to do a HM or NiM ops to get the best gear than spamming PvP all the time. Ranked right now barely even pops anymore and, at least on my server, it pops because people get together and start advertising they're queing, that still only happens like once a week.

 

So hardcore PvPers, without a reliable amout of ranked pops, will be forced to do regs to get the best gear and, assuming by logic, that will take much, much longer than the people who do HM or NiM raids.

 

And let's imagine that ranked will pop fairly often. With how the matchmaking system worked in previous seasons regarding ELO (People with high ratings will get teamed together and go against those with lower rating. It happened a lot of times to me.) People with the higher gear will likely end up in the same team and go against those with lower gear. It's just going to be frustrating all around.

 

This has everything to do with the RNG loot crates and I agree it should not happen. This is not PvP or PvE specific and not what the thread title topic mentions.

 

Side note they have not released rates at which command XP will be earned for any specific type of play so it would make sense to wait before using that as a reason...

[durhame]

Yes, you can still get PvP gear by doing PvP.

 

But it's going to be way faster to do a HM or NiM ops to get the best gear than spamming PvP all the time. Ranked right now barely even pops anymore and, at least on my server, it pops because people get together and start advertising they're queing, that still only happens like once a week.

 

So hardcore PvPers, without a reliable amout of ranked pops, will be forced to do regs to get the best gear and, assuming by logic, that will take much, much longer than the people who do HM or NiM raids.

 

And let's imagine that ranked will pop fairly often. With how the matchmaking system worked in previous seasons regarding ELO (People with high ratings will get teamed together and go against those with lower rating. It happened a lot of times to me.) People with the higher gear will likely end up in the same team and go against those with lower gear. It's just going to be frustrating all around.

 

At least someone gets what the hell I am talking about. I know I am probably in a small minority of players who only pvp but still wanted my voice, however tiny, to be heard. The system in place really was the best I've seen around to encourage pvp. Not only for new folks, but for pvp lovers who like to have alts. I guess the game really has run its course and the devs really are out of touch with what the players (see gen chat) want. It is like congressman who retire go to work for EA/BW as developers.

[Jadescythe]

At least someone gets what the hell I am talking about. I know I am probably in a small minority of players who only pvp but still wanted my voice, however tiny, to be heard. The system in place really was the best I've seen around to encourage pvp. Not only for new folks, but for pvp lovers who like to have alts. I guess the game really has run its course and the devs really are out of touch with what the players (see gen chat) want. It is like congressman who retire go to work for EA/BW as developers.

 

This is a baseless assumption. The only information we have is that longer and more difficult activities will provide more cxp. They specifically mentioned ranked arenas and NiM Ops offering more cxp than something like heroics. You're getting mad about something that isn't even something they've confirmed. If you want to make a thread asking BW to make sure SM ops and reg pvp give equal cxp go for it, but right now you're mad about something they haven't even said is happening.

[Wimbleton]

I either missed something or you guys did....You can gear through PvP in 5.0 in regulars and even faster in Ranked....Granted the RNG aspect is garbage but gearing entirely through PvP is a viable option in 5.0....

 

Well ranked doesn't happen consistently, especially on non Harb servers. Which means you'll gear through regs at a snails pace. Remember how long it took to gear for 174 in regs? You had to get 84000 reg comms to convert to ranked comms to get your 174 items and then you had to get more to min/max your slots with mods/enh. You were gaining 50-250 comms per match. If it's like that again, I won't stay.

[jauvtus]

Guys, listen to me for a sec!

You try to reignite the PvE vs PvP war, implying that an occasional/regular PvPer will have harder time to get their gear than PvEer, but you have many false assumptions:

1. You say you spend only a few hours max in the game. You know who else spends only a few hours in the game? Occasional/regular raiders. They don't spend more time online than you do, and in that time they can do 1-2 ops, while you can do dozens of wzs.

2. You say NiM ops give most Cxp. Ranked wz will give comparable and while NiM ops are literally impossible without proper gear, you can win ranked wz simply by skill superiority. Note that I'm talking about the first phase of KotET, when NOONE will have BiS gear. Ranked will only require Valor, which I assume you have, therefore you can jump immediately into it (since every gear will be crappy anyway), while NiM raiders will have to farm a lot of gear before even touching the highest level of opses.

 

Am I saying PvPers get off easy? NO. Am I saying they get off easier? Yes. NiM raiders will have a hard time to get all the BiS gear, which is not that strictly required in PvP, where class knowledge is more emphasized. All I'm saying is that this situation isn't another PvP vs PvE. You shouldn't be fighting to gear progression without PvE. That's how it will work. You should rather be fighting with others to remove the RNG from the system. That's what will broke gearing, not PvE. It should be playerbase vs devs.

[Jherad]

On the surface it appears viable, but in reality it's going to destroy parity.

 

Sure you can gain CXP faster in ranked, but who wants to play ranked matches where all 8 people are in different stages of gearing themselves? At that point, what does ranking even mean? They implemented the expertise requirement just to stop gear differentials from happening, so they KNOW parity in ranked is essential.

 

Even in regs, it's simply not fun to utterly destroy someone because I have better gear. And the opposite is true too; it's not fun to be destroyed simply because my gear is not as good.

 

I'm in the same boat as the OP, this is unfortunately going to be it for my sub. I'm just not in a place where I want to play a game where I have to mindlessly and endlessly grind for RNG gear, only play PvP against a cluster-event of people all in various stages of gearing.

 

Say what you want about expertise gear, but the sheer ease of obtaining 2018 expertise helped provide a level playing field where SKILL was the most important factor, not gear differences.

 

You've put your finger on pretty much all the concerns I have with this new system. Parity - and the fact that gear has *never* been PvPer's prime motivation for PvPing. Better stat gear is not the reward, or the goal. Gearing up is a necessary evil that you get out of the way as quickly as possible - before the actual fun starts.

 

Why were battlemaster bags hated? Because they made getting that gear-grind out of the way unpredictable. Why do PvPers roll their eyes every time a new PvP gear tier is released? Because it was just a flat delay until we could have fun again. Why did the PvP community LOVE being able to stack WZ comms and send them to alts? Because it made gearing new toons very very quick.

 

We'd LOVE new cosmetic stuff. We'd LOVE new mounts and emotes, and shinies. But stats? Many of us would be happy if they completely REMOVED all gear stats from PvP and just applied default templates. We want to fight against players, not gear. We are not PvEers. I couldn't care less what numbers look like, as long they stay somewhat balanced relative to everyone else.

 

They can get rid of expertise if they must. With the badly coded WZ bolster system it's unintuitive and clumsy. But don't make us grind for months just to get back to where we were - Warzones don't change. Don't filled ranked with people of different gear tiers - And for the love of all that is unholy, don't make us run flashpoints to gear up if WZs aren't popping.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Jherad

[wtfimblue]

A related concern:

 

With the removal of expertise, will they attempt to balance tanks and healers properly? Assuming everyone in a warzone has ~2018 expertise, players deal ~20% extra damage to each other, and yet we still have guardians, and sages creating unkillable walls right now.

[Jadescythe]

A related concern:

 

With the removal of expertise, will they attempt to balance tanks and healers properly? Assuming everyone in a warzone has ~2018 expertise, players deal ~20% extra damage to each other, and yet we still have guardians, and sages creating unkillable walls right now.

 

They use a mechanic that I can't remember the name of to control the effectiveness of healing in warzones. Expertise didn't change anything provided both players had the same amount of expertise. The increased damage was offset by the damage reduction it gave you. It was a mechanic specifically aimed at ensuring players used expertise.

[Jherad]

A related concern:

 

With the removal of expertise, will they attempt to balance tanks and healers properly? Assuming everyone in a warzone has ~2018 expertise, players deal ~20% extra damage to each other, and yet we still have guardians, and sages creating unkillable walls right now.

 

Given that it's going to take at least twice as long to gear a tank as it is a pure DPS class (because the gear crates are AC based, not spec based), they may have inadvertently solved that problem in the short term. Albeit through stupidity.

[wtfimblue]

They use a mechanic that I can't remember the name of to control the effectiveness of healing in warzones. Expertise didn't change anything provided both players had the same amount of expertise. The increased damage was offset by the damage reduction it gave you. It was a mechanic specifically aimed at ensuring players used expertise.

 

Trauma.

 

Also, how exactly is it offset? I deal 55% more damage, but take 35% less damage from expertise.