Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne

[robertthebard]

See, the interesting thing is that SWTOR, throughout it's history, has made improvements to the way RNG affects character progression. In such a way that (in my personal opinion) is better than other MMOs.

 

Even setting aside the Battlemaster Bags, remember when "gear tokens" were added to the game? You went from two levels of RNG (did gear drop for my class? did I win the drop?) to one level of RNG (did I win the drop), and a "bad RNG" mitigation mechanism (here are commendations that let you buy gear of your choice (slightly worse)).

 

The player, while being affected by the RNG design of the game, could exert control over their experience (I need a mainhand so I'm going to focus on these bosses), and also had more choices and options (I can spend this token I won on my tank to gear up my healer).

 

This new system is a step away from that.

 

And let's be honest, the RNG nature will have an even greater impact on the solo player than it would on the raider. Remember that he or she will spend longer amounts of time doing content producing fewer CXP, thereby receiving fewer crates.

 

If that player's luck lands on the right side of the RNG bell curve it surely would be frustrating.

 

Why would it be frustrating? Because someone else got something? How does that negatively affect your gameplay? Unless it's the whole concept of "He has it and I don't" that's going to be the issue? Since that's the seemingly obvious issue, won't it be frustrating when you get something someone else didn't get? Wouldn't you, and everyone else, be better off if they spent more time worrying about what they're getting, instead of what Joe got?

[Wayshuba]

Ok, so you're not getting healing gear, and, you're not the only one that will be getting gear in a raid. This is how it works in other games. One drop, from the entire table, instead of one drop for you, from your advanced class, with everyone else in the group getting the same. That's assuming one drop per crate. The current model for class stories drops 2 pieces of gear. So are they going with that, or the Alliance Crates type of drops. Nobody knows, but it's automatically the worst possible system ever, right?

 

All I'm saying is simply this: Anyone that thinks that this is going to be the grindiest system ever needs to go play a game that actually has grind to it. They'll be back here praising this system for what it is, not that bad, all things considered. It could have been much much worse.

 

Well, your comment gets to the root of the problem - doesn't it. We have a better system today than what they are planning to implement. Just because the new one is better than Korean grindfest MMOs does not mean taking a step backward is still good.

 

The point is, what we have today is better than what they are planning to implement. When you make updates to a game you are supposed to try and make improvements, not make things worse.

[Kingsbount]

Why would it be frustrating? Because someone else got something? How does that negatively affect your gameplay? Unless it's the whole concept of "He has it and I don't" that's going to be the issue? Since that's the seemingly obvious issue, won't it be frustrating when you get something someone else didn't get? Wouldn't you, and everyone else, be better off if they spent more time worrying about what they're getting, instead of what Joe got?

 

Then why are you so desperedly want high-end gear?

Isn't it becouse JOE have it and you don't?

 

Dude you are not making sense at all.

All you saying is a words of greed.

[robertthebard]

Then why are you so desperedly want high-end gear?

Isn't it becouse JOE have it and you don't?

 

Dude you are not making sense at all.

All you saying is a words of greed.

 

What? I got my gear the old fashioned way: I earned it, when you had to hope like hell a piece of gear you could use dropped, and that you'd win the roll.

 

Perhaps you should go back and read what I wrote again, because frankly, I see the current system as catering to people that didn't want to do the work required to get their gear, the lazy, and to use your words, greedy way. This is the entire problem with what's coming: People that don't understand it, but know that others are railing against it, and so they have to as well.

[Jadescythe]

What? I got my gear the old fashioned way: I earned it, when you had to hope like hell a piece of gear you could use dropped, and that you'd win the roll.

 

Perhaps you should go back and read what I wrote again, because frankly, I see the current system as catering to people that didn't want to do the work required to get their gear, the lazy, and to use your words, greedy way. This is the entire problem with what's coming: People that don't understand it, but know that others are railing against it, and so they have to as well.

 

No, you just continuously compare this game to other MMOs and tell us how this system is better than those. But it's worse than the system we have, so who cares about other games?

[Tanitha]

Why would it be frustrating? Because someone else got something? How does that negatively affect your gameplay? Unless it's the whole concept of "He has it and I don't" that's going to be the issue? Since that's the seemingly obvious issue, won't it be frustrating when you get something someone else didn't get? Wouldn't you, and everyone else, be better off if they spent more time worrying about what they're getting, instead of what Joe got?

 

As I said before, I don't care what the other player gets. I care about what I get. And if I can't gear one toon, it's taking away my fun in the game because I won't be able to play the content I want to play. To the average Joe, killing some mobs in a heroic in 10 secs or 12 makes no difference. To me, because I like to play ops and PvP, it makes a hell lot of a difference if I have my crits or not, and if my raid group can be properly geared so we can play and have fun.

 

Edit: if they want everyone to get the gear without playing ops, the solution is simple: keep the GC crates, and also keep the same system we have today. Don't ditch epxertise, there is no need for that, as for someone who does not PvP, it's not needed. Expertise is only needed on PvP, it makes no difference whatsoever in any other activity in SWTOR. And gearing a toon in PvP is very easy, with the comms you get for daily, weekly and from each WZ itself.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Tanitha

[Khevar]

Wouldn't you, and everyone else, be better off if they spent more time worrying about what they're getting, instead of what Joe got?

Did you mean to quote someone else and responded to me by mistake?

 

If not, then you completely missed my point. Perhaps other people are worried about stopping others from getting gear or something. That's not me. And it's not what I wrote.

 

I was trying to give an example of the pitfalls of an RNG gear reward mechanism from the viewpoint of a solo player. Many of the arguments in this thread are about raiding, raiders, etc. I'm giving an alternate perspective.

 

Let's say that 1 command rank == 1 crate, and 1 crate == 1 piece of gear. Just for the purposes of the argument, mind you. This is just a guess based on available data. Now let's take 14 possible slots to put that gear in. Now let's take 38 possible piece of gear that may drop for a tank / dps advanced class (excluding the ephemeral mending relic).

 

It would take, on average, 123 crates to fill all 14 slots with optimized gear. That's the average mind you. 1 out of every 20 players (on the right side of the bell curve) would take over 200 crates, statistically speaking.

 

Now imagine you're a solo player who gets command ranks infrequently due to the types of content you prefer don't give much CXP.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Khevar

[wainot-keel]

Why would it be frustrating? Because someone else got something? How does that negatively affect your gameplay? Unless it's the whole concept of "He has it and I don't" that's going to be the issue? Since that's the seemingly obvious issue, won't it be frustrating when you get something someone else didn't get? Wouldn't you, and everyone else, be better off if they spent more time worrying about what they're getting, instead of what Joe got?

 

lolwut ? How the heck did you get what I underlined from Khevar's post ?

Don't make stuff up, state it like it's a fact and then go on an epic rambling about it.

 

In no way that was even suggested as the reason for the frustration from a RNG gearing system

[robertthebard]

No, you just continuously compare this game to other MMOs and tell us how this system is better than those. But it's worse than the system we have, so who cares about other games?

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the quoted reply? However, if you can demonstrate where I've been asking for free stuff, other than the "if you're quitting, can I have your stuff" thread, since we both likely know that a large percentage of "I'm taking my ball and going home" is just bluster, then I'd be happy to withdraw this post.

 

Closer to home, sorry if demonstrating what "grind" really means offends some people. Wait, no I'm not.

[robertthebard]

lolwut ? How the heck did you get what I underlined from Khevar's post ?

Don't make stuff up, state it like it's a fact and then go on an epic rambling about it.

 

In no way that was even suggested as the reason for the frustration from a RNG gearing system

 

Really? So being frustrated that someone got something from solo content isn't being frustrated about what someone else got? Do tell, how do you reach this marvelous conclusion.

[wainot-keel]

Really? So being frustrated that someone got something from solo content isn't being frustrated about what someone else got? Do tell, how do you reach this marvelous conclusion.

 

Who said they would be frustrated if someone got something from solo content ?

 

Stop twisting words and making stuff up, please

[gabigool]

As I said though, let me know if it takes you any where near 4 months, or 4 years, to complete your gear set, assuming you don't just quit for either amount of time and do it in a week, anyway. That would be the next logical step, yes?

 

Well, since you mean sets, I believe four months is a hysterically low estimate. I raid on multiple characters on multiple servers on multiple classes.

 

So

 

Yeah.

[Khevar]

Really? So being frustrated that someone got something from solo content isn't being frustrated about what someone else got? Do tell, how do you reach this marvelous conclusion.

Good grief, man. That's not what I wrote.

 

Here's a clarification which you seemed to have overlooked in your rush to argue with someone else about MY post.

[BaineOs]

Listened to what you have to say about gearing on your stream....still not good enough.

 

I'm not having anything to do with RNG, having listened to what was said....my mind is still the same. Come 5.0 after I've done the chapters....I'm gone.

 

I cannot stand how you are forcing one set of gear on us and removing expertise (i.e. no separate pve gear and pvp gear)...but the RNG? Its the final straw.

 

It's that simple for me.

Edited October 20, 2016 by BaineOs

[Tsetso]

Listened to what you have to say about gearing on your stream....still not good enough.

 

I'm not having anything to do with RNG, having listened to what was said....my mind is still the same. Come 5.0 after I've done the chapters....I'm gone.

 

I cannot stand how you are forcing one set of gear on us and removing expertise (i.e. no separate pve gear and pvp gear)...but the RNG? Its the final straw.

 

It's that simple for me.

 

It's still better to get gear per discipline that per AC.

[AdjeYo]

It's still better to get gear per discipline that per AC.

 

Sure it's better, but it's still ******.

[BaineOs]

It's still better to get gear per discipline that per AC.

 

That doesn't bother me in the slightest. Sure don't get me wrong I see the value in that and that's a good thing. But it doesn't change my point of view.

 

I'm a sniper, I don't have the same issues as other classes. Yes I have all the over advanced classes but I don't play them enough to care about that....that doesn't mean I don't respect other's viewpoint...its just not on my radar.

 

It's not just the RNG it's the whole damn system they're putting in place, the RNG just pushes it over the edge for me.

[Tsetso]

Sure it's better, but it's still ******.

 

Yes, but at least my sin won't get the middle finger just because i play tank.

[DarthCognusSion]

You are all missing the point. If you are dead set on these loot boxes, please let them drop a gear token. That token can then be turned in for any piece of gear. This eliminates all of the rng that everyone hates. Nobody wants this rng factor. Nobody. It isn't a good idea. You claim to listen to the community. The majority of the community do not want rng for the gear. Please address this. Take measures to fix this, because no content is going to make a lot of the endgame community leave. This rng factor will drive more people away.

 

As a side note, do these boxes have a chance to not drop a piece of gear at all? Because if that is true, then it is rng on top of rng which is completely unacceptable.

[Tsetso]

That doesn't bother me in the slightest. Sure don't get me wrong I see the value in that and that's a good thing. But it doesn't change my point of view.

 

I'm a sniper, I don't have the same issues as other classes. Yes I have all the over advanced classes but I don't play them enough to care about that....that doesn't mean I don't respect other's viewpoint...its just not on my radar.

 

It's not just the RNG it's the whole damn system they're putting in place, the RNG just pushes it over the edge for me.

 

I get it. I hate the system too, but if what they said was true - getting 1-2 boxes per hour it's not that bad. In a couple of weeks i can gear my main(sure, not with full set bonus, but still) and get back to raiding/pvp

[BaineOs]

and their argument about it being complicated having all those different vendors? For crying out loud they had to redesign the entire damn system purely because of the number of vendors? They couldn't come up with some kind of computer terminal ingame that brings some kinda menu system?

 

There's loads of other things they could do if they really thought it was a huge problem....but that's the thing. They wanted to simplify that aspect? My god....there's just no words.

[BaineOs]

I get it. I hate the system too, but if what they said was true - getting 1-2 boxes per hour it's not that bad. In a couple of weeks i can gear my main(sure, not with full set bonus, but still) and get back to raiding/pvp

I don't care, there was nothing wrong with having pve gear and pvp gear. You have to understand dude that for me

there's not just one thing I don't like about these changes. I don't like any of it.

[Tsetso]

I don't care, there was nothing wrong with having pve gear and pvp gear. You have to understand dude that for me

there's not just one thing I don't like about these changes. I don't like any of it.

 

TBH i feel the same. I'm getting in CB1 for RO and if i like it i'll probably leave.

[DarthDymond]

I don't care, there was nothing wrong with having pve gear and pvp gear. You have to understand dude that for me

there's not just one thing I don't like about these changes. I don't like any of it.

Honestly, then you're probably S O L - they might change one or (hopefully) two aspects of the larger system, but the chances of them dropping the entire thing are pretty much non-existent.

[BaineOs]

TBH i feel the same. I'm getting in CB1 for RO and if i like it i'll probably leave.

 

I'm already half out the door anyway, I don't play anything like what I used to. I've been hanging on for 5.0 with the hope that it'll boost my motivation again. Nothing they are saying at the moment, especially with the dark v light stuff, is making me interested. Sorry just doesn't grab my interest, all they're doing is confirming for me that the game simply isn't worth playing anymore.