We finally have repeatable story!

[LyraineAlei]

It's not just chapters

 

Your second quote sounds like marketing hype, or I'm being overly suspicious.

 

Might be that they're releasing a new tier to FPs so FPs have SoM, TacFP, HMFP, and then maybe a NiMFPs?

[Aowin]

Your second quote sounds like marketing hype, or I'm being overly suspicious.

 

Might be that they're releasing a new tier to FPs so FPs have SoM, TacFP, HMFP, and then maybe a NiMFPs?

 

I doubt it. I'm almost positive it's alluding to the new 4-man uprisings which can be done with three companions or three friends. I don't think flashpoints need a "story mode," and certainly I don't think it would make a lot of sense anyway. I could only imagine the amount of complaints if Blood Hunt was to get a Nightmare Mode...

Edited October 15, 2016 by Aowin

[IanArgent]

Your second quote sounds like marketing hype, or I'm being overly suspicious.

 

Might be that they're releasing a new tier to FPs so FPs have SoM, TacFP, HMFP, and then maybe a NiMFPs?

 

IT's from the KotET page - so, yes, marketing hype, but official marketing hype

[LyraineAlei]

I doubt it. I'm almost positive it's alluding to the new 4-man uprisings which can be done with three companions or three friends. I don't think flashpoints need a "story mode," and certainly I don't think it would make a lot of sense anyway. I could only imagine the amount of complaints if Blood Hunt was to get a Nightmare Mode...

 

"Story Mode" for FPs are SoloFP (SoMFP) and Tactical (TacFP).

[Aowin]

"Story Mode" for FPs are SoloFP (SoMFP) and Tactical (TacFP).

 

Most flashpoints still don't have a solo mode, but again I don't believe the marketing is referring to flashpoints at all. As you've clearly already indicated, there are multiple difficulty levels for flashpoints. I would definitely be inclined to believe BioWare is referring to new content that is not currently in the game.

 

As flashpoints are something that haven't been supported since SOR, It definitely sounds like it will be Uprisings that will have multiple levels as we already saw this reality with Star Fortresses in KOTFE.

[peter_plankskull]

Most flashpoints still don't have a solo mode, but again I don't believe the marketing is referring to flashpoints at all. As you've clearly already indicated, there are multiple difficulty levels for flashpoints. I would definitely be inclined to believe BioWare is referring to new content that is not currently in the game.

 

As flashpoints are something that haven't been supported since SOR, It definitely sounds like it will be Uprisings that will have multiple levels as we already saw this reality with Star Fortresses in KOTFE.

 

Because "everyone" liked star fortresses... their going to support it? Honestly flashpoints seem to be the most well liked group content their is, not overly time consuming, not too hard, yet not too easy to chase away that many groups unless you're a full on nim raider/casual story player.

[Aowin]

Because "everyone" liked star fortresses... their going to support it? Honestly flashpoints seem to be the most well liked group content their is, not overly time consuming, not too hard, yet not too easy to chase away that many groups unless you're a full on nim raider/casual story player.

 

This isn't a matter of "like" or "dislike." I am merely observing what BioWare has done in recent times versus content they've done two or more years ago. Flashpoints are something BioWare has not been supporting recently for new group content. Star Fortresses and the Eternal Championship, on the other hand, are recent group content additions that both offer multiple difficulties.

 

Thus, it would make sense than Uprisings would also have multiple difficulties as this is a feature BioWare has been offering in all new group content. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

[peter_plankskull]

This isn't a matter of "like" or "dislike." I am merely observing what BioWare has done in recent times versus content they've done two or more years ago. Flashpoints are something BioWare has not been supporting recently for new group content. Star Fortresses and the Eternal Championship, on the other hand, are recent group content additions that both offer multiple difficulties.

 

Thus, it would make sense than Uprisings would also have multiple difficulties as this is a feature BioWare has been offering in all new group content. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

 

Are we really going to count the EC as group content? Just because it has a option to group doesn't mean its group content unless specifically tuned so. By that logic all class stories can classify as group content besides the holocom convos.

 

Shouldn't their be two way communication between the devs and the community to form their game? Yes, their are some things way to far out of this universe through suggestions, but what kind of group content should of surely been discussed within the community, through forums, in game surveys, and polls. A factor of liking it or not should be prevalent within the game, as if their going to do something group content orientated, it should be in their communities interest.

[IanArgent]

Are we really going to count the EC as group content? Just because it has a option to group doesn't mean its group content unless specifically tuned so. By that logic all class stories can classify as group content besides the holocom convos.

 

Shouldn't their be two way communication between the devs and the community to form their game? Yes, their are some things way to far out of this universe through suggestions, but what kind of group content should of surely been discussed within the community, through forums, in game surveys, and polls. A factor of liking it or not should be prevalent within the game, as if their going to do something group content orientated, it should be in their communities interest.

 

TEC was designed as single-player content; by dev statement.

Edited October 15, 2016 by IanArgent

[gabigool]

I doubt it. I'm almost positive it's alluding to the new 4-man uprisings which can be done with three companions or three friends. I don't think flashpoints need a "story mode," and certainly I don't think it would make a lot of sense anyway. I could only imagine the amount of complaints if Blood Hunt was to get a Nightmare Mode...

 

I believe it will only affect Chapters and Uprisings as well. I cannot see the Chapter "re"-plays being anything other than gameplay oriented; it would seem to me a first playthrough should be where your choices get locked in. Otherwise, playing any chapter would have to force a full reset to that point, no?

 

Kind of reminds me of how in old FPS campaigns like CoD4 etc you could go back and replay chapters but it was a standalone activity. I probably played "All Ghillied Up" fifty times, at least.

 

Personally I see no replay value in the chapters as they currently exist. I wouldn't mind playing though on harder difficulties though, a la Mass Effect Insanity runs. With that said, I cannot imagine that level of difficulty going over well with the same people that are playing this game for story.

[IanArgent]

I believe it will only affect Chapters and Uprisings as well. I cannot see the Chapter "re"-plays being anything other than gameplay oriented; it would seem to me a first playthrough should be where your choices get locked in. Otherwise, playing any chapter would have to force a full reset to that point, no?

 

Kind of reminds me of how in old FPS campaigns like CoD4 etc you could go back and replay chapters but it was a standalone activity. I probably played "All Ghillied Up" fifty times, at least.

 

Personally I see no replay value in the chapters as they currently exist. I wouldn't mind playing though on harder difficulties though, a la Mass Effect Insanity runs. With that said, I cannot imagine that level of difficulty going over well with the same people that are playing this game for story.

 

I'm not expecting it to cover content pre-4.0, and I'm not expecting it to challenge NiM raiders. Within those parameters? Who knows.

[Aowin]

...

 

The Eternal Champion is group content. You are more than welcome to disagree just because it happens to offer a solo option (the same is the case with Star Fortress and a decent amount of Flashpoints), but I'm fairly sure BioWare and most players would consider it group content.

 

Except class stories aren't "group content." You can bring friends along to be spectators in the dialogue and even kill some mobs, but that's not the same thing as actually having content built for groups. There is a distinct difference.

 

For one, the ultimate driving force of any developer is to make the game they want. Secondly, any good developer will also take into consideration player feedback and suggestions to try and improve upon that experience. However, you cannot please everybody and while you may not like Star Fortresses or the Eternal Championship, there are players who do. How does BioWare then decide who's opinion matters more? They look at metrics and gaming trends to gauge where to go next and always are open to trying new things.

 

Until we actually know what Uprisings are, which are obviously different from Star Fortresses and the Eternal Championship, I wouldn't criticize BioWare for not listening to its community just yet.

[Aowin]

...

 

I'm under the impression choice will have to be locked after completing it once, otherwise there would have to be an entire reset of all choices for repeatable story chapters to work.

 

I think repeatable stories as well as multiple difficulty levels are two-fold. It's mean to appeal to those who want to revisit the stories but also to those who are looking for more of a challenge. I wouldn't personally use Mass Effect as an example as Insanity in all three games is easy (just use cover and attack when your shields are charged). However, I do agree with the sentiment that harder content, especially if there are special rewards, would provide more incentive to revisit that content.

[sithlordschmidt]

The Eternal Champion is group content. You are more than welcome to disagree just because it happens to offer a solo option (the same is the case with Star Fortress and a decent amount of Flashpoints), but I'm fairly sure BioWare and most players would consider it group content.

Except that BW has explicitly stated that it was designed as a solo experience:

"These fights are only designed for a single player and their companion of choice, but as the difficulty increases, perseverance will be required to attain the Championship. "

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/eternal-championship

[Toraak]

The Eternal Champion is group content. You are more than welcome to disagree just because it happens to offer a solo option (the same is the case with Star Fortress and a decent amount of Flashpoints), but I'm fairly sure BioWare and most players would consider it group content..

 

in this case, you are wrong.Eternal Championship is Solo content for multiple reasons.

 

1) If TeC was group content you could get the tokens when doing it 2+. You do not get any tokens.

 

2) TeC is balanced for 1 player. if you go into it with 2 players it is a joke. They'd need to do a balance overhaul to count that as group content.

[Aowin]

...

 

That hardly invalidates the fact that it can be done with a group as I've done it with a group and solo. The fact that blog makes no mention of the group option as well is somewhat strange.

 

Either way, it's a moot point as BioWare has been providing difficulty levels as well as group or solo options for all recent content. I see this not being any different with Uprisings in which you can take friends or three companions and you will have access to multiple difficulty levels.

 

What would be truly interesting is if you could bring friends along with you now in the KOTFE and KOTET story chapters. One of the biggest complaints players had is one could not participate with a friend in the KOTFE story like one could in the class stories. To my knowledge, BioWare hasn't said anything about that possibility.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Aowin

[JamieKirby]

You mean the story you all likely space bar through anyway?

[peter_plankskull]

The Eternal Champion is group content. You are more than welcome to disagree just because it happens to offer a solo option (the same is the case with Star Fortress and a decent amount of Flashpoints), but I'm fairly sure BioWare and most players would consider it group content.

 

Except class stories aren't "group content." You can bring friends along to be spectators in the dialogue and even kill some mobs, but that's not the same thing as actually having content built for groups. There is a distinct difference.

 

How is the EC built for groups by any way? As far as I know its the same thing for solo+, no difference in tuning at all, the only difference is that more people are allowed to come on.

 

For one, the ultimate driving force of any developer is to make the game they want. Secondly, any good developer will also take into consideration player feedback and suggestions to try and improve upon that experience. However, you cannot please everybody and while you may not like Star Fortresses or the Eternal Championship, there are players who do. How does BioWare then decide who's opinion matters more? They look at metrics and gaming trends to gauge where to go next and always are open to trying new things.

 

Until we actually know what Uprisings are, which are obviously different from Star Fortresses and the Eternal Championship, I wouldn't criticize BioWare for not listening to its community just yet.

 

If that was a one time release game, then sure, but if it's a ongoing community built game, imo player input should be extremely important. I'm not saying they should bend to my will, but honestly, their is literally no communication at all anymore, their building the game they want without updating what it's about till the last moment, and not giving details about anything else. They absolutely, at every turn, refuse to talk about operations other than that one message from around the start of KOTFE, then they back peddle halfway and say their working on group content.

[sithlordschmidt]

That hardly invalidates the fact that it can be done with a group as I've done it with a group and solo. The fact that blog makes no mention of the group option as well is somewhat strange.

It makes no mention of the group version because there isn't one. There is a solo+ version, which is tuned exactly the same as the solo version, it just allows for people to bring others along for the ride. So, no, it is flat out incorrect to call this group content, as it was in no way designed or scaled for groups.

[Aowin]

...

 

Just because BioWare isn't talking about a feature doesn't mean they aren't cognizant to the wants of some of the community. BioWare has a history of never talking openly about any of their games in development. This isn't exclusive to SWTOR.

 

They do it to avoid promising features that never make the cut as well as having surprises players won't expect. Listen to the live streams coming up and in January to determine whether operations will be coming.

[Stradlin]

Woo!! Repeatable content!! YAAAY

 

lol.

[Transcendent]

Just because BioWare isn't talking about a feature doesn't mean they aren't cognizant to the wants of some of the community.

 

There is a subtle difference between being aware of what players would like to see, and then producing something that isn't being asked for or feedback garnered on. We've seen this disparity previously with GSF, players asking for Space PvE off the rails, and then giving us Space PvP (minus some important features).

 

It'll be interesting to see exactly what BioWare intend to produce this time with SM / HM / NM KotFE and KotET chapters. I mean, already by limiting this to purely the new story content should speak volumes about understanding what the player base has been asking for or providing feedback on.

 

How many players complained about the implementation of Level Sync pre 4.0? How many players wanted more options to Level Sync pre 4.0? How many players wanted to group up for KotFE chapters? Does this "new" feature cover all of these things? Or is it something completely different that not a single player has been asking for? Again?

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Khevar]

That hardly invalidates the fact that it can be done with a group as I've done it with a group and solo.

I can do the optional exploration quests while on Tatooine in a group as well. That doesn't make it group content.

The fact that blog makes no mention of the group option as well is somewhat strange.

It's not strange in the least. It's because it was designed to be solo content.

 

It would be nice if you wouldn't put words in the developer's mouths. YOU might think it's group content. Stop pretending that Bioware thinks that it is.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Khevar

[peter_plankskull]

Just because BioWare isn't talking about a feature doesn't mean they aren't cognizant to the wants of some of the community. BioWare has a history of never talking openly about any of their games in development. This isn't exclusive to SWTOR.

 

They do it to avoid promising features that never make the cut as well as having surprises players won't expect. Listen to the live streams coming up and in January to determine whether operations will be coming.

 

 

Not talking about a feature doesn't always mean your ignoring the community, but in this case it is. They have tried VERY hard, at EVERY turn to NOT mention that word: operation. At all. Eric continually responds to some questions about story, however we have had a abundance of threads asking about group content, and, to no avail despite trying very hard, we have received nothing. Just wait till January, for group content, not specifically, operations, it's all we have got for any word outside of story.

 

Maybe instead of giving a Bioware a free pass by going "Well... they always have done that..." perhaps we should... stop it? Not to mention their previous games were RPGs, not a ongoing game like SWTOR. SWTOR is constantly evolving, it doesn't remain stagnant, it needs active players, and active communication. Saying "wait till January" is not a suitable answer, as before we have been continually told time and time again, to just... wait. After the break between chapters 9-10 we were told to wait, through 10-11, through 11-12, wait till KOTET starts, now it's wait till January. For all we know it could be a announcement of a announcement. "Hey folks, we have been very happy to tell you we will release additional details about group content next month." We deserve a answer now, after being strung along for two years now, it's time to stop, and just talk about operations.

[Aowin]

...

 

Folks wanted a twitch-based space experience that was Battlefront 2, at worst, and JTL, at best. We essentially got Battlefront 2. I'm not really sure if anybody ever complained about GSF being PvP-oriented. My only complaint is that it's incredibly redundant and offers little variety. I wanted to actually be able to explore the galaxy in my ship. While I don't mind GSF, it offers so little that it's hardly worth my time or effort.

 

Or, the far more likely answer is it's far easier to implement this repeatable system with the newer content than it is the older content. Again, I see this as a foundation to eventually make the class stories repeatable. It's just easier making two story expansions repeatable versus eight individual class stories. I'm sure BioWare is fully aware that players also want the class stories to be repeatable as it's something players have been asking for since launch.

 

Level sync revitalized lower level planets, especially with regard to heroics. It turned much of what was a ghost town into something that actually has a decent population. I'd say level sync largely accomplished its goal even if some are against its implementation.

 

Considering I saw multiple threads within the last year asking for KOTFE and the class stories to be repeatable, I'd say BioWare is actually listening to the community.