Saber poles, could a non force user use them?

[TalonVII]

Did some thinking earlier, and I know the lore/canon thing is to use the lightsaber because of how it is, you really need to be a force user to bring out it's true potential. Due to the weight being in the hilt, using the force to block blasters and so-on, but here's the thing.

 

Could a normal person be trained to use a saber pole effectively since most of the weapon is mostly spear like in nature with the blade only being what half a foot to a foot in length, but just a small blade?

 

Properly trained not to impale or hit themselves with the blade, could a normal person fight with a sable pole with any kind of proficiency unlike a light saber?

 

thoughts?

[MadDutchman]

The whole notion that you need to be a force wielder to use a lightsaber effectively was silly right from the get go. Sure, you won't be blocking blaster bolts with one if you aren't, but it'll work just fine as a weapon for a non-force user if they were trained on it no different than any other sword like weapon.

 

A notion that i was really glad TFA killed.

 

The real reason we don't see non-force users using a lightsaber often is because Kyber crystals are exceedingly rare, and you need to be a force user to assemble the lightsaber in the first place.

 

So to get to the question, sure they could, it would just be a very effective force pike in their hands. It does not however get past the part about building it though. While there might be a technological way of assembling a lightsaber/lightpike, it is never revealed.

[Mubrak]

The whole notion that you need to be a force wielder to use a lightsaber effectively was silly right from the get go. Sure, you won't be blocking blaster bolts with one if you aren't, but it'll work just fine as a weapon for a non-force user if they were trained on it no different than any other sword like weapon.

Was it ever stated that only force sensitives could use a lightsaber?

 

There were times and places here on earth, where the sword was restricted to certain groups (usually nobility). Carrying one identified you as a member of that group, and earned you their privileges. (From demanding cooperation of the local authorities to getting special treatment as a POW) The punishments for impostors were draconic, and obviously training was restricted to those who had the right to become part of that group.

 

The sword wasn't more effective than anything else people used at that time to kill each other. It was a symbol of status and privilege. If we take such a setting and jump to star wars, where the weapon will cut off your limbs on the slightest mistake, unsanctioned training will become much less likely.

 

What the prequels did wrong, IMO, was turning the lightsaber into impenetrable plot armor, that can deflect and even reflect anything, until the plot demands that a rank and file soldier shoots you down.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Mubrak

[Spetulhu]

Was it ever stated that only force sensitives could use a lightsaber?

 

IIRC some EU material made it seem that way if not outright state it. The shifting magnetic fields keeping the blade focused would strongly influence how "heavy" the weapon was to swing, where it pulled and so on - without Force abilities to sense it you'd always risk going out of form or losing your balance.

[TalonVII]

IIRC some EU material made it seem that way if not outright state it. The shifting magnetic fields keeping the blade focused would strongly influence how "heavy" the weapon was to swing, where it pulled and so on - without Force abilities to sense it you'd always risk going out of form or losing your balance.

 

It was something to that effect for combat. Basically a force user used his faster reflexes and foresight to keep his blade where he needed it to be, where as a non force user could not.

 

Why it was more a jedi/sith weapons. However, most of a sabers pole is just thst, the actual pole, the blade is very small and just the tip, so I think it would be easier for a non-force user to wield in combat.

[TheRomanRuler]

Big reason why only force users use lightsabers is due to how dangerous they are to yourself. With regular blade, you can grab it without injury, that is even real life technigue often used to for example guide the blade. And you can`t cut off your own head with regular blade. There just would be no point using lightsaber as non force user becouse you don´t get any advantage out of it, they are extremely rare and thus expensive and regular blades are just as useful. Only as force user do you get all benefits out of lightsaber.

Also, i don`t want everyone to start using lightsabers/poles/others. And regular swords are still cool. Sci fi regular swords can be even cooler. I prefer lightsabers and other weapons that use same tech to be signature weapons for force users, with only some invidual expections. Anything looses lot of their coolness if they become too common.

Edited October 4, 2016 by TheRomanRuler

[Yezzan]

You can only use the force to construct a lightsaber, and, generally, each ligthsaber user was required to built his/her own weapon; and the weapon was specially attuned to him/her. Of course, you could always kill someone and take his/her saber. But, there wouldn't be any point in training with a saber since, it relies on the force and techniques that requires force attunement. Mandalorians do not use lighsabers and they are far more deadly than most Jedi and Sith. Edited October 5, 2016 by Yezzan

[MadDutchman]

You can only use the force to construct a lightsaber, and, generally, each ligthsaber user was required to built his/her own weapon; and the weapon was specially attuned to him/her. Of course, you could always kill someone and take his/her saber. But, there wouldn't be any point in training with a saber since, it relies on the force and techniques that requires force attunement. Mandalorians do not use lighsabers and they are far more deadly than most Jedi and Sith.

 

Uh, Pre Vizsla? Mandalorian with a lightsaber and made a really good showing of it too.

[CrownofGold]

uh, pre vizsla? Mandalorian with a lightsaber and made a really good showing of it too.

 

^^^^^i was just about to say that!!!

[AlrikFassbauer]

IIRC some EU material made it seem that way if not outright state it. The shifting magnetic fields keeping the blade focused would strongly influence how "heavy" the weapon was to swing, where it pulled and so on - without Force abilities to sense it you'd always risk going out of form or losing your balance.

 

Han Solo on Hoth ?

[BlazeTomahawk]

Han Solo on Hoth ?

 

I was about say that, but remember how awkward he was with it? He looked like he was afraid of it. Maybe he was just shakey from the cold, but it didn't look easy for him

[Ndrag]

Yeah well you can hurt yourself with a lightsaber type weapon.

 

You can do some serious damage to yourself with a sharp melee weapon also.

 

Any trained melee fighter would be able to wield a lightsaber weapon with serious effectiveness, aside from the obvious force-sensitive feats like the above mentioned blaster reflection.

The reason that you can´t grab a sabers blade, like a longsword user would to penetrate armor, doesn´t count - it´s an almost weightless weapon that doesn´t need the extra physical push to penetrate "plate".

 

Even without the force it could be totally possible, if you take the numerous random movies where characters deflect at least arrows with a blade.

Aragorn actor, Viggo Mortensen, even deflected a stunt dagger that was wrongly thrown directly at him out of the moment (fighting scene in the woods where the companionship breaks and the leader Urukai throws at him).

It stayed in the movie ofc, because obvious reasons.

 

One might argue that a force user simply has the ability to keep up the concentration necessary for extended defenses.

This is a handy excuse why force-users are so easily shot down in the movies, because concentration elsewhere (Order 66 for example).

If, let´s say 20 Soldiers, would fire assault cannons at a force-user from different directions, there´s really nothing he could do about it, except evade by jumping out, deflection impossible and death quite normal.

It´s a common misconception that force-users are invincible (Sith brabble about it all the time ^^)

 

That doesn´t rule out non-force users as deadly lightsaber type weapon wielders, even without the example of Pre Visla.

 

The main reason why this will not become a thing is that it´s not really canon and game specific players surely feel "special" because they can wear a lightsaber - imagine the **** storm if every bounter hunter and their mother would wield one.

 

Lastly, light sabers may be rare in the Skywalker timeline, but in KOTOR and SWTOR every one shot Sith/Jedi runs around with and drops one on death, not as loot, but they sure have those on them.

Even if you disregard the cannon fodder NPCs, that era has full fledged wars between armies of force users so light-saber weapons are available in abundance.

 

From a technological standpoint, there is no reason why a skilled technician, scientist wouldn´t be able to build or at least reverse engineer and modify a lightsaber type weapon. (I am pretty sure that´s how it works in Zakuul).

 

So sorry - it´s just a melee weapon, a specialized one, but still.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Ndrag

[Darth_Krushya]

A Force user has to use the Force to assemble a light saber hilt, it's mechanical pieces, and the crystal(s). The power supply and the crystal(s) individually are charged and imbued with Force energy. The hilt and all of the components combine through the Force on a level, merely assembling by hand or machine cannot achieve. All of the components fuse at the molecular level through the Force and via the Force-Adept's knowledge and intense focus of the Force.

 

Pre-Viz'sla (already a highly skilled warrior and combatant) and Han Solo (not very adeptly at all) were able to handle those weapons after they were already assembled.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Darth_Krushya
spelling, grammar, errors

[thepilk]

by all accounts lightsabers should actually be easier to use than any other blasters.. as they are described as "less clumsy and random" than blasters and as "elegant" weapons.

 

It would make sense that force users could make more of them than anyone else..but thatd be true about literally any weapon, or even being unarmed. Someone with heightened acuity, improved reflexes, superhuman speed, and the ability to see things before they happen would have an advantage with any weapon compared to someone without those traits, regardless of what type it is.

[Emencie]

So sorry - it´s just a melee weapon, a specialized one, but still.

 

Which brings up the question of why any non force user would want to use a lightsaber of any variety at all? Sure if you are about to die and there is one weapon right there, and it happens to be a lightsaber, of course you would pick it up and try to defend yourself. But using a melee weapon against enemies with long range projectile weapons, or magical melee master fighters, is as silly as a modern soldier rushing the battlefield with a sword instead of his gun.

 

Honestly it doesn't make much practical sense for a force user to use them either, but it sure does look cool.

[YaanaOhtar]

Well they can wield lightsaber. But whether they can use it good enough is another story. It takes great skill to use it and against blaster without the help of the force it is ill adviced, against Jedi or Sith it is a death sentence. They should stick with vibroblade.

 

Pole saber is a no no. Dual saber / saber staff require the user to keep moving around to protect the hilt. Anything with big hilt like pole is asking to be chop off. Materials that is resistance to lightsaber are vety rare hence very expensive - consider the whoke galaxy is the demanding, and supplying is 2-3 planets- it is not realistic to have one.

[Ndrag]

Which brings up the question of why any non force user would want to use a lightsaber of any variety at all? Sure if you are about to die and there is one weapon right there, and it happens to be a lightsaber, of course you would pick it up and try to defend yourself. But using a melee weapon against enemies with long range projectile weapons, or magical melee master fighters, is as silly as a modern soldier rushing the battlefield with a sword instead of his gun.

 

Honestly it doesn't make much practical sense for a force user to use them either, but it sure does look cool.

 

It has some practical use - compared to a standard SW Sword/Melee weapon it´s rather small, portable and has some serious cutting power (doors, armor).

It´s quite concealable as long as it´s not drawn because then it´s quite a big attention catcher.

 

Also due to it´s weight (hilt only) it´s easier to wield than a melee weapon of other kinds. But it´s inferior in pure kinetic impact to you standard blade (no weight coming to bear).

 

Makes you wonder if the "strong" slashes of a saber wielder rely on the Force to apply kinetic power to the blow.

 

And we don´t need to argue that there has never been a more iconic weapon in movie/gaming history. Even with all the additional tries to make it even more special looking (Kylo), it´s the basic lightsaber that is still the elegant weapon Obi-Wan describes.

 

It can be a powerful tool to any melee fighter, but even the Assasins/Shadows used normal knives over a double-bladed saber for kills for a reason.

 

They don´t make such a fuss when you draw them/using them.

[YaanaOhtar]

It has some practical use - compared to a standard SW Sword/Melee weapon it´s rather small, portable and has some serious cutting power (doors, armor).

It´s quite concealable as long as it´s not drawn because then it´s quite a big attention catcher.

 

Also due to it´s weight (hilt only) it´s easier to wield than a melee weapon of other kinds. But it´s inferior in pure kinetic impact to you standard blade (no weight coming to bear).

 

Makes you wonder if the "strong" slashes of a saber wielder rely on the Force to apply kinetic power to the blow.

 

And we don´t need to argue that there has never been a more iconic weapon in movie/gaming history. Even with all the additional tries to make it even more special looking (Kylo), it´s the basic lightsaber that is still the elegant weapon Obi-Wan describes.

 

It can be a powerful tool to any melee fighter, but even the Assasins/Shadows used normal knives over a double-bladed saber for kills for a reason.

 

They don´t make such a fuss when you draw them/using them.

 

Just small point : If you can cut through your enemies, I don't think you would care much for Kinetic damage.

 

And yes, they apply force into fighting style to increase the power.

[Ndrag]

Just small point : If you can cut through your enemies, I don't think you would care much for Kinetic damage.

 

And yes, they apply force into fighting style to increase the power.

 

That requires you to land a hit, something that kinetic energy can provide if the defense stroke/hold is too weak.

 

So while force users may be able to hit harder, applying the missing kinetic energy by utilizing the force it´s still totally viable for non-force users to win a duel or use those weapons effectively, especially if you know that you can´t beat a force user by sheer brunt attacks. ( a shot in the back of the head will also do ^^)

[KainrycKarr]

I would wager that, in the case of a non-force user, a lightsaber or similar weapon would be best used in two circumstances.

 

A) as a last line of defense when fighting the force user and the force user is closing the gap. a lightsaber, such as the Dark Saber, provides a means (assuming Beskar is unavailable, or not canon or whatever) to block a simple killing stroke with a lightsaber. Against a highly skilled Jedi/Sith this is likely a delaying of the inevitable, as with Force-enhanced stamina I imagine a force user would likely win a pure blade on blade on duel if the non-force user can't get an early kill stroke early on.

 

B) as a means of keeping the more Arcane force types off-balance and on the defensive, preventing them from using some of the more powerful force abilities like lightning or force choke. however, the same issue arises here as I mentioned in A - Force-enhanced stamina. This would, again, likely only work as a here-and-there tactic.

 

In either case, I can only see such a weapon being viable in the hands of either a Mandalorian or a Bounty Hunter, as for the most part only those types tend to carry tools and weapons to keep the force user at bay when they need a breather or at a distance.