The Empire and it's constant struggle.

[SithKoriandr]

Considering the impressions I got from TFA is that Disney wants to ignore the prequels not unlike SWTOR really, really wants to ignore KoTOR 2, or how Jurassic World wants to ignore anything that isn't the Jurassic Park, I don't think that SWTOR or the Sith Empire needs to be bound to a timeline that no longer exists.

 

Obiwan was old. He was probably bitter and romanticizing his past when Luke meet's him in Episode 4. Luke was a stupid farm boy, what does he know about galactic history? Hell all of the references to Bane, the "peace keepers of a thousand years", and established world building about the Light and Dark Side could be chocked up to people having an inaccurate idea about history, filled with gaps and just wrong information. There are countless people who love to reference stuff like Nazi Germany and the Revolutionary War, but have never heard nor researched notable time period before/after like the (Weimar Republic or Whiskey's Rebellion). Hell, there are people who if pressed clearly have a very unique(or warped, as some people might put it) perspective on what actually happened in climatic points in history like Nazi Germany and the Revolutionary War. The same premise mindset could easily be carried to the Prequel Era/OT era.

 

Hell, call it an alternate timeline where the New Sith Wars/Bane/Ruusan Reformation never happened if you want to.

 

The Sith Empire could win or lose at the end of this, and it doesn't necessarily have to bleed into the movie timeline either way. In fact I'd prefer it if the Republic loses, or becomes even more autocratic(#Saresh2016), and both the Sith Empire and Zakuul come out of this relatively strong and emboldened. The Sith Empire doesn't even need to win in a galactic domination sense, just survive and become emboldened and stronger from all of the internal conflict it's experienced.

 

I don't understand why people keep saying "I want to see the Republic lose."

 

They always lose.

 

What did the newest movie show? They're still small and weak and being chased down.

[Yermog]

Here's how I see it- it IS annoying how the Empire never seems to win, especially since they will do whatever it takes to succeed, but there are significant problems with how they run themselves outside of battle. If you play a Lightsided Sith, or a Sith who thinks of the Empire first, they're pretty much alone in their beliefs. As one poster already said, the majority of Sith, who are at the top of the proverbial food chain, translate the Sith Code (rightly I would say) as basically being 'every man for himself'. Sith want power. Sith will do anything to get power. If that means killing other Sith, killing soldiers who happen to annoy him/her, random civilians, puppies, that is what they will do. People respect Sith, but they're also absolutely terrified of them, and that can only take the Sith so far. At the beginning of Makeb, Darth Marr tells the Imperials that even though they've won key victories, Sith in-fighting is causing them to wipe themselves out faster than the Republic does, as well as forcing them to toss newly minted, untested Sith out into battle where the majority of them are slaughtered. Most of them don't care about the Empire at all, just themselves, meaning that any time they're given a chance, they'll look out for Number One, even if it's to the detriment of the Empire.

 

I can honestly believe that this is the case where the Empire is falling in on itself. The ideal Sith is Darth Marr- calculating, cunning, willing to use power, but NOT power-hungry, and always with the Empire in his mind. He's not a serial killer or insane, but pretty much every other Sith we meet with a few exceptions is a psychopathic murderer. If they're supposed to be the leaders of the Empire, no wonder they're in so much trouble.

 

Personally I LOVE the angle of playing as a neutral or LS-leaning Sith who loves the Empire and is trying to change it from within. But trying to do that is very, very difficult and slow, and there's a lot more chances to kill someone than there is to try to keep peace or forge alliances, and it's almost always stated by the NPC that its because you just can't trust a Sith. Also, the Empire canonically hates aliens. The 'freaks' disgust them. So, unlike the Republic, they're (pardon the pun) alienating thousands of potential ally races who might otherwise be drawn to the 'meritocracy' ideal of the Empire.

 

My point is that it makes sense that the Empire is having these troubles to me. While I love the Meritocracy angle of it, their leadership is too bogged down with insane killers with powers and prejudices that they would be better off getting rid of, for the sake of the Empire's strength.

[Xilizhra]

Wait, didn't the Empire win quite strongly on Makeb?

[Sithishe]

Personally I LOVE the angle of playing as a neutral or LS-leaning Sith who loves the Empire and is trying to change it from within. But trying to do that is very, very difficult and slow, and there's a lot more chances to kill someone than there is to try to keep peace or forge alliances, and it's almost always stated by the NPC that its because you just can't trust a Sith.

 

I coudnt agree more, playing LS Sith Warrior was a blast! So many anazing story content that opens only if you are LS Sith Warrior, specially the ones that are moking the Jedi double standarts and hypocrathy Stil my favorite story line among all, is LS Sith Warrior. For me, only in this story line I really saw consiquences of my actions and choices that actually matter and affect further gameplay, hell even companions, that sadly other storylines are missing.

[DAWUSS]

I coudnt agree more, playing LS Sith Warrior was a blast! So many anazing story content that opens only if you are LS Sith Warrior, specially the ones that are moking the Jedi double standarts and hypocrathy Stil my favorite story line among all, is LS Sith Warrior. For me, only in this story line I really saw consiquences of my actions and choices that actually matter and affect further gameplay, hell even companions, that sadly other storylines are missing.

 

For me, LS SI was one of my most interesting SW characters, primarily because few (if any) of those actually exist. Pointing out the double-standards of the Jedi is fun too, but the strongest part was being able to use your emotions and not limiting yourself to those in the realm of anger.

 

I do miss my Darth Imperius prior to becoming The Outlander...

[Xilizhra]

For me, LS SI was one of my most interesting SW characters, primarily because few (if any) of those actually exist. Pointing out the double-standards of the Jedi is fun too, but the strongest part was being able to use your emotions and not limiting yourself to those in the realm of anger.

 

I do miss my Darth Imperius prior to becoming The Outlander...

While KotFE's story isn't really amazing, I do think it works pretty well for Darth Imperius; defying Valkorion resonates well with the themes of struggling for freedom in the SI story, and you get to additionally defy the overly rigid traditions of the Sith when it comes to the Force. And, of course, the SI is one of the most natural fits for where KotET will eventually take us.

[MayhemofChaonus]

Here's how I see it- it IS annoying how the Empire never seems to win, especially since they will do whatever it takes to succeed, but there are significant problems with how they run themselves outside of battle. If you play a Lightsided Sith, or a Sith who thinks of the Empire first, they're pretty much alone in their beliefs. As one poster already said, the majority of Sith, who are at the top of the proverbial food chain, translate the Sith Code (rightly I would say) as basically being 'every man for himself'. Sith want power. Sith will do anything to get power. If that means killing other Sith, killing soldiers who happen to annoy him/her, random civilians, puppies, that is what they will do. People respect Sith, but they're also absolutely terrified of them, and that can only take the Sith so far. At the beginning of Makeb, Darth Marr tells the Imperials that even though they've won key victories, Sith in-fighting is causing them to wipe themselves out faster than the Republic does, as well as forcing them to toss newly minted, untested Sith out into battle where the majority of them are slaughtered. Most of them don't care about the Empire at all, just themselves, meaning that any time they're given a chance, they'll look out for Number One, even if it's to the detriment of the Empire.

 

I can honestly believe that this is the case where the Empire is falling in on itself. The ideal Sith is Darth Marr- calculating, cunning, willing to use power, but NOT power-hungry, and always with the Empire in his mind. He's not a serial killer or insane, but pretty much every other Sith we meet with a few exceptions is a psychopathic murderer. If they're supposed to be the leaders of the Empire, no wonder they're in so much trouble.

 

Personally I LOVE the angle of playing as a neutral or LS-leaning Sith who loves the Empire and is trying to change it from within. But trying to do that is very, very difficult and slow, and there's a lot more chances to kill someone than there is to try to keep peace or forge alliances, and it's almost always stated by the NPC that its because you just can't trust a Sith. Also, the Empire canonically hates aliens. The 'freaks' disgust them. So, unlike the Republic, they're (pardon the pun) alienating thousands of potential ally races who might otherwise be drawn to the 'meritocracy' ideal of the Empire.

 

My point is that it makes sense that the Empire is having these troubles to me. While I love the Meritocracy angle of it, their leadership is too bogged down with insane killers with powers and prejudices that they would be better off getting rid of, for the sake of the Empire's strength.

 

 

 

I think you're reading the Empire and the Sith all wrong. You know what the real problem is? Lack of strong, central leadership. Societies like the Empire don't just thrive off of having an all-powerful, iron-fisted leader...they need an all-powerful, iron-fisted leader. If Vitiate had actually led the Empire actively and put effort into controlling, corralling, and directing the Sith than the majority of the psychopathic, ambitious, mutinous killers that make up the Sith would be directed against the Republic. Case and point: The Sacking of Coruscant. The Empire brought the Republic to it's knees and could have/would have ended it for good (or at least for a good long while) if Vitiate hadn't suddenly decided to abandon the Empire he built over 300+ years...

 

TLDR: A strong Emperor makes a strong Empire.

[JKDGSGDKJA]

I think you're reading the Empire and the Sith all wrong. You know what the real problem is? Lack of strong, central leadership. Societies like the Empire don't just thrive off of having an all-powerful, iron-fisted leader...they need an all-powerful, iron-fisted leader. If Vitiate had actually led the Empire actively and put effort into controlling, corralling, and directing the Sith than the majority of the psychopathic, ambitious, mutinous killers that make up the Sith would be directed against the Republic. Case and point: The Sacking of Coruscant. The Empire brought the Republic to it's knees and could have/would have ended it for good (or at least for a good long while) if Vitiate hadn't suddenly decided to abandon the Empire he built over 300+ years...

 

TLDR: A strong Emperor makes a strong Empire.

 

Capable leadership is more or less what the Dark Council is, and in the best circumstances that under the guidance of a capable Empress----which I have high hopes Acina wll be----it leads to a very promising future. At worst----well, you get Ilum's imperial campaign. I hope the Zakuulian onslaught was a wake up call for some of the more petty elements of the Sith Empire where idiots like Jadus are in the minority----or at least not in a position to have their own ambitions surpass the betterment of the Empire.

 

To be honest, while she is the antagonist of the series, I think Saresh is the best thing to happen to the Republic. There are so many corrupt elements to it festering just below the surface---illegal dealings, countless super weapon projects that almost always backfire---and lawful stupid citizens and senators as far as the eye can see. The fact that patriots like Vanara Kayl are labeled as corrupt while actual warmongers like Godera and Var Suthra can get away scheming out in the open is insane. At least the Sith Empire is honest about what its----it's flaws and strengths. The duplicity and disorder of the Republic is infuriating. Maybe Saresh can't fix all of that but at the a firm hand can guide it better than a thousand prattling voices, each mindlessly stretching it in a thousand different directions.

Edited November 5, 2016 by JKDGSGDKJA

[TL_Roff]

wow, a lot of posts in this thread! Ok I have my own take here as a Loyal Imperial player *grin*

 

First of time scale.. Pretty sure that what you and I consider a period of one year is somewhat longer then a year in the star wars galaxy.. like twice as long... hard to say.. but I always felt there was some issues with the passage of time here.

 

Onto the topic at hand..

 

 

The writing is on the wall here... the Sith Empire as we currently know it isn't going to last much longer... The Empire how ever will continue..It's uniforms, traditions, and titles obviously continued even into the era of the movies and the clone wars. So what I strongly suspect is that the Empire and Old Republic made peace and the empire was incorporated into the old republic as a semi autonomous state maintaining its traditions and titles. A number of planets maintained their alliance to the old empire and continued development of ships and technologies (it took years to build the first death star, and a number of decades of R&D just to develop, or rediscover the technology.. long before Palpatine overthrew the Galactic Republic and declared himself emperor)

 

And a Note on the movies.. Anikin was said to fulfill the "phophecy of the one" or restoring balance to the force.. and he did. As he was remade into Darth Vader he also led the progom that virtually annihilated the Jedi order.. and essentially did eliminate the Order as a presence on the Galactic scene.. leavling in the end 2 Jedi. A Master, and an apprentice for both orders..eventually Palpatine was killed along with Vader, and niether the Sith or the Jedi could be more the a peripheral influence on the Galaxy. (but the Sith and Jedi are not the ONLY force users in the galaxy.. there are others, many others) the "balance" between the Sith and Jedi was restored... more or less.

 

(hey more or less correct.. And I've got a nasty flu ths election day go easy on me! SUch fun to type and thing while running a fever)

 

We've a bit to run yet on the story arc but I definitely see plenty of hints pointing toward the end of the Sith Empire..The SIth would tend to be a bit (a bit he says!) more combative the the Republic so undoubtedly there is a much greater resistance with the empire to the Eternal Throne. Most of the most powerfull Sith have died and the Dark Council assuming it even still exists in the current story line is very much a shadow of its former glory as of KOTET. The continued fighting with this the ranks of the Sith even further. I expect to see the Sith themselves decline even more on the grander scale, and we all know that the Jedi order expands greatly in size by the time of the Galactic Republic. However the Sith reign over the Empire. The true government of the empire is with the Imperial Governors and Darth's. There are even autonomous worlds with in the Empire giving their allegiance to the empire but other wise running their own affairs, and of course contributing to the Imperial budget. The great Galactic corporatons have also apparently existed from this period of history into the movie era. Sinar systems of Kuat for example, and a number of Corellia based corporations. (one of those little anomalies that tells me either writers are being lazy or the span of time is not as large as we assume)

 

What of course concerns me here is how this will effect the story line of our MMO here. Now for the most part I assume that the sweep of history of this era is pretty charted out, and was charted out before SWTOR ever launched. Just the details have had to be sweated out.

 

I think the one thing that will come out of this is the Empire's reputation as fighters, not always for the right "cause" but none the less fighters.. With the Sith order in taters I doubt it's be able to maintain political rule of the Empire.

I suspect the Moff's will broker a deal with the Old Republic to formally and permanently end hostilities between them. I also suspect a lot of the remaining Sith to either get killed, join the Jedi order, or withdraw entirely from the Galactic scene. WIthout Valkorian/The Sith emperor's will behind the forces of the empire (which as been the guiding hand behind the sith and the empire since the great hyperspace war) the expansionist dreams of the empire just wont be as great a force as they have been.

 

In the end though the Empire and it's ideals come out once again under Palpatine's rule..

 

So the Empire never really dies.. but takes a back stage on Galactic affairs for quite a long time...

[TairisAnders]

I don't see the Empire always losing. Makeb was a win that the mission objectives were achieved. We won on Corellia only to find that when we get back to the fleet that we in fact lost ... (still trying to work that one out). No one won Voss which was totally annoying because the Voss are freaks and frankly there is no way my Agent who was charged with war crimes on Voss and told never ever to return would EVER have helped them against Vaylin.... Hoth ... again nothing to win ... Tatooine ... same .... only reference to the Empire losing that I can recall is a speech by Marr.... Then both Empire and Pub gets butt kicked into nothing by the Eternal Empire.... that becomes a draw..... Now my agent, who loves and adores the Empire has apparently decided (without any discussion with me) to have a third faction despite the concept being totally heinous. Her option, were she to have a choice, would be to merge the Alliance with the Empire.... but i stray from topic into a rant .........

[SithKoriandr]

I don't see the Empire always losing. Makeb was a win that the mission objectives were achieved. We won on Corellia only to find that when we get back to the fleet that we in fact lost ... (still trying to work that one out). No one won Voss which was totally annoying because the Voss are freaks and frankly there is no way my Agent who was charged with war crimes on Voss and told never ever to return would EVER have helped them against Vaylin.... Hoth ... again nothing to win ... Tatooine ... same .... only reference to the Empire losing that I can recall is a speech by Marr.... Then both Empire and Pub gets butt kicked into nothing by the Eternal Empire.... that becomes a draw..... Now my agent, who loves and adores the Empire has apparently decided (without any discussion with me) to have a third faction despite the concept being totally heinous. Her option, were she to have a choice, would be to merge the Alliance with the Empire.... but i stray from topic into a rant .........

 

I can't imagine an Agent being in love with the Empire after what they did to them I do agree on the merging with the Outlander's preferred side though.

[Limariko]

I can't imagine an Agent being in love with the Empire after what they did to them I do agree on the merging with the Outlander's preferred side though.

 

Well, while my Agent is pretty loyal to the Empire, she's not so big on the Sith as they currently exist because they're more trouble than they're worth. After all, for that thing that happens, I only know how it plays out for an agent who did take down Jadus so for my Agent, she chose the "Batman" option. So, I guess I can say she's loyal to the Empire, but not Loyal to the Empire if that make sense.