How Would You Tweak the Class Stories?

[kellerkat]

 

 

Sith Inquisitor was a nice nothing to riches story, but I have a giant problem with it: the story seems to give zero ***** about the Emperor when all 3 of the other Force using classes are dealing with Vitiate in some way. Given that the SI is supposed to be inspired by Palpatine, who became the Emperor, you'd think she'd want to know how Vitiate amassed so much power. But no. It was just very disappointing. Very enjoyable, they got the douche Sith story right, but disappointing in that it didn't tie in to what the other Forceful classes tied in to. The SI could've become a Hand of the Emperor, just as the SW became the Wrath. As a Hand you could've been ordered to "prepare the Empire" in chapter three WHILE Thanaton is trying to wreck your ***. The Hands of the Emperor are mysterious, there was no way Thanaton would believe you were in cahoots with Vitiate, given that you were a slave and potentially alien AND Zash's former apprentice. It would've been interesting to have met the Emperor personally as the SI, to actually meet his true Sith Pureblood body. It would've tied up all the Force users quite nicely and prepared them ALL, not just three of them, for KOTFE and KOTET. If Vitiate wanted you to be on the Dark Council, you could've gotten up there with his machinations so that it looked like you truly were just another powerful Sith instead of THE Sith..

 

The Inquisitor being recruited as a Hand in Chapter 2 could have really worked. I don't mind that they don't have a personal connection to the Emperor, their similar history and power set links them well enough in KOTFE/ET for me but as much as I love that class story Thanaton is weak as a two arc villain.

 

Instead of two quests to get Kallig's old stuff the Force Walking should have been introduced earlier. Zash getting trapped in Khem's body is the result of a bound Kallig and SI rejecting her and Khem being caught in the backlash. Plus there's no need for all that planet hopping for ghosts when the Inquisitor could have just gone around Dromund Kaas and taken their pick, which is what could have caught the Emperor's attention.

 

They then go relic hunting for the Emperor, working against Thanaton's people who are after the same item so that the rivalry is more than him being sore at Zash and annoyed that at a former slave doing well for themself. Chapter 2 ends much like it does in Thanaton's mediation chamber, the SI wins but they use so much power that the ghosts become a problem that needs to be fixed.

Edited March 2, 2017 by kellerkat

[Nefla]

Hmm, what I would change if I could:

 

1) Much more mentions of your species

2) Give the Consular a major personality injection

3) Don't force every companion on the player, make some optional. Some of the companions should be required for the story such as your starting companion, apprentice/padawan but others don't make sense and the game forces them on you without good reason (ex: Skadge)

4) Same-sex romances or NPC flirts/flings

5) More non-human male love interests than just Grumpycat

6) The ability to more consistently shape your character's personality. For instance with a sith inquisitor you can often play as peaceful, kind, or even slave-like, non-confrontational, and submissive but sometimes all three dialogue options are evil/jerk/violent options. I'd prefer sticking with the traditional BioWare nice/funny/mean choices.

7) I really liked the classes where you had important NPCs that you encountered many times as part of the story like Jaxo, Jonas and Darmas, I'd like more of that kind of thing.

[zdoofop]

this looks fun.

 

First, for the trooper, Garza should have been an imp spy all along, which is why she covered up the defection and wanted all those weapons.

 

Smuggler should have been the opposite-the twist near the end of act 3 makes acts 2-3 seem useless.

 

Knight story was GREAT, but Scourge should have been with you fighting the Emperor. At least for me, I found myself with T7.

 

Consular prologue was a ton of fun, unlocking ancient force mysteries, solving puzzles, should have been lots more of that.

 

Warrior was ok, but what was the point of being the Wrath if he no longer cares about the empire? Perhaps instead one of his rivals agrees to help you in exchange for seeing Baras defeated.

 

I kind of liked the Inquisitor's story except for the fact that you run Zash's errands even when you have been told numerous time that she will betray you.

 

Agent was ok, but confusing, you couldn't always tell what was going on. Perhaps they could have simplified things by making Hunter have you on the run from Intelligence, and only Keeper and Minister know the truth instead of shutting down Operations but not really and when its all over you don't really know who you work for.

 

BH story felt less like being a Bounty Hunter and more like being an errand boy. Chapter 1 was Great, but Chapter 2 feels like the others are trying to get you to quit, and then chapter 3 is just you playing minion to a Sith. Perhaps instead, Chapter 2 is more about mandalorian initiation rite, and then chapter 3 is joining a clan.

[SithKoriandr]

Hmm, what I would change if I could:

 

6) The ability to more consistently shape your character's personality. For instance with a sith inquisitor you can often play as peaceful, kind, or even slave-like, non-confrontational, and submissive but sometimes all three dialogue options are evil/jerk/violent options. I'd prefer sticking with the traditional BioWare nice/funny/mean choices.

 

Is that how BW is in their other games, because OMG I always thought the game needed something more akin to that! A version of Good - Bad - Sarcastic!

 

Now, it doesn't have to be that way on every choice, but three different choices!

[grania]

Well that's easy, every class and gender should have had two romance options. If some had two choices then they all should have had two choices.

 

Second - a lot of anguish could have been avoided if warriors, particularly female warriors who are romancing Quinn, could have convinced him not to go through with his plan. Why are female warriors the only ones in the game with a LI who tries to kill them, with no way to avoid it? It makes you feel pathetic and it sucks.

 

That's it, pretty much.

 

If the act III was handled like in the spoilers there, I'd like SW story very much(Act I is simply mesmerizing), this way, it can go and **** itself. A tool and a COMPLETE TOOL all the way. NO THANK YOU.

 

I would agree that there are parts of the sw story that make you feel like utter crap, and completely defeated. And not in a good storytelling kind of way.

Edited March 3, 2017 by grania

[SteveTheCynic]

Sith Warrior: modify Jaesa's story. her parents planned to marry her to an Organa noble - but now lets be honest, who would marry a servant girl? . No one, since on Alderaan all marriages are carefully planned. If Jaesa's parents would have been lybrarians or museum curators, maybe the marriage to a noble story would have made sense.

Fussy point: My Bounty Hunter runs around wearing the Baroness title because she (a foreigner, not a citizen of either the Republic or the Empire, and a violent and rude foreigner at that) married a noble.

[phalczen]

Add me to the list of people who support boosting the level of class story phases to the character's actual level, to make class story chapter fights more challenging.

[Nefla]

Is that how BW is in their other games, because OMG I always thought the game needed something more akin to that! A version of Good - Bad - Sarcastic!

 

Now, it doesn't have to be that way on every choice, but three different choices!

Yes, their other games (and SWtOR does it sometimes but not consistently ) have the nice/good/selfless/poilite choice on top, the snarky/sarcastic/charming choice in the middle and the evil/rude/jerk/violent choice on the bottom. Some of their games even label the choices with an icon next to each dialogue option lol

 

As a side note, I'm surprised you haven't played BioWare's other games if you like SWtOR a couple of years ago I would have recommended you try them but not anymore

[Cuiwe]

Yes, their other games (and SWtOR does it sometimes but not consistently ) have the nice/good/selfless/poilite choice on top, the snarky/sarcastic/charming choice in the middle and the evil/rude/jerk/violent choice on the bottom. Some of their games even label the choices with an icon next to each dialogue option lol

 

As a side note, I'm surprised you haven't played BioWare's other games if you like SWtOR a couple of years ago I would have recommended you try them but not anymore

 

Yes, DA:O and ME2 are of particular quality...

[Nefla]

Yes, DA:O and ME2 are of particular quality...

 

It depends on what you like in a game, I loved the "middle era" games from KotOR to ME2 (and obviously SWtOR) but after that they kept losing more of the things liked in order to implement or focus on things I either didn't like or didn't care about.

[SithKoriandr]

Yes, their other games (and SWtOR does it sometimes but not consistently ) have the nice/good/selfless/poilite choice on top, the snarky/sarcastic/charming choice in the middle and the evil/rude/jerk/violent choice on the bottom. Some of their games even label the choices with an icon next to each dialogue option lol

 

As a side note, I'm surprised you haven't played BioWare's other games if you like SWtOR a couple of years ago I would have recommended you try them but not anymore

 

I tried to get into ME, after all, all my friends loved it, but I couldn't get past the ugly aesthetics of the game.

[Cuiwe]

It depends on what you like in a game, I loved the "middle era" games from KotOR to ME2 (and obviously SWtOR) but after that they kept losing more of the things liked in order to implement or focus on things I either didn't like or didn't care about.

 

Yes, after DA:O and ME2, they really went south imo. This could very well be mirrored to SWTOR too: brilliant 1-50, /meh everything after.

[Nefla]

Yes, after DA:O and ME2, they really went south imo. This could very well be mirrored to SWTOR too: brilliant 1-50, /meh everything after.

Yeah I agree I like the expansions too but they can't hold a candle to the base 1-50 game.

 

I tried to get into ME, after all, all my friends loved it, but I couldn't get past the ugly aesthetics of the game.

 

Ha, I hear you there! That ME1 CC was especially horrible O_O

[JLazarillo]

I tried to get into ME, after all, all my friends loved it, but I couldn't get past the ugly aesthetics of the game.

I just came back to this game after giving ME a try, but it was the controls that messed me up to much. I'm not so good at shooters, and I was hoping I could compensate for that via the RPG elements, but no such luck.

 

On topic, this is pretty neat. If I could go back and "fix" the stories, here's what I'd want to see done:

 

-Jedi Knight:

 

Less tell, more show. Drop the whole "Padawan" Kira thing, since the story never really treats her as one and saying "PADAWANPADAWANPADAWAN" "MASTERMASTERMASTER" at every opportunity doesn't really make it so from a narrative perspective. Change nothing, cut the dialogue about it, and just make her a less-experienced Jedi partner and it works just as well. Similarly, most of chapter 3 should be spent under the Emperor's control. Make it more like Agent chapter 2, heck maybe even "force" (no pun intended) the PC to take the Dark Side outcome of all missions until chapter 3 class story is completed (still award points according to decisions to show that the player's mind is their own, though). And as noted above, keep the General/Master title distinction.

 

 

-Jedi Consular:

 

Make Rajivari more relevant. A lot of the Dark Side choices in Chapter 1 didn't make much sense, but if the Consular is following Rajivari's path, a sort of "dark Jedi" perspective would work pretty well. Chapter 2 was fine as is, but make Chapter 3 more about hunting the Children rather than raising an army. The Rift Alliance already provides one, more or less, and by shifting the focus, it becomes less of a convenient coincidence that every place you go, you end up facing a Child anyway.

 

 

-Trooper

 

For one, give a more personal "edge" to the Havoc traitors. The story barely acknowledges them as such after the prologue, and Jek Karden and his role is completely forgotten the moment you leave Coruscant. Drop all the "Kobayashi Maru" situations, too. There are too many of them and it gets...desensitizing after a while. Particularly, dump the Fuse choice and bring him back in Chapter 2 as the demolitions specialist again, rather than Vik. This could give the Havoc traitor story some more closure, too, through his personal story.

 

 

-Smuggler

 

Move Rogun up to the end of Chapter 2. Reveal the true betrayal at the beginning of chapter 3 and make the focus from there on being on gathering evidence against Dodonna/Darmas. Also, make Darmas speak with an Imperial accent when you confront him at the end. Just 'cause.

 

 

-Warrior

 

Actually, I don't know that I'd change much here. The Warrior's not my favorite story, but it's definitely the best structured story, so there's not much to tweak. Maybe just make it so the dialogue didn't assume so much about a LS Warrior's motives. I didn't enjoy the feeling of being railroaded as LS.

 

 

-Inquisitor

 

Drop the bits about regaining control of power and mind in chapter 3, and steal the Consular's "building an army" plot for instead. The Inquisitor needs more time building a power base, and getting a group of powerful disciples from the Esh-kha and the Voss and/or Gormak would be pretty cool for a despised upstart. Also, have Xalek join sooner.

 

 

-Hunter

 

This is another well-structured one, so I can't think of too many potential "fixes". I do agree that both Gault and Skadge's recruitments are a little shaky. Maybe change Gault so he's your competition rather than your target. Since you have to take out both, the Tattooine plot can have you taking out your actual target right at the start and from there it's chasing after Gault to get proof of removing the competition. At the end, he "retires" from the contest (say he wasn't really into it from the beginning or something) and joins you as support.

 

 

-Agent

 

Biggest thing here, I think, would be better companion choices. Vector and Temple, especially, are just so bland, and Kaliyo's so...unlikable. Either give different options, or at least do more to flesh out the ones that are in.

 

 

In general, I'd also want to do a lot more with companions for all classes. Maybe add a bunch of potential companions for each story, and maybe even some faction based ones, and simply give an arbitrary max headcount for your "party". Working that in, make several of the current story ones "killable" as well (Scourge, Quinn, Skadge, Kaliyo, at least a few others as well...). Also give them all more involved personal arcs; everyone gets it like the starting companions, none of the "I'm going to handle this on my own, see you later, okay I'm back, here's what happened" dialogues.

[SithKoriandr]

JLaz, that Hunter part is a much better idea. Wouldn't hate having him forced on me as much that way.

[Nefla]

JLazarillo's post about the master/padawan thing made me think of something. I wish in both jedi class stories that your master had been your master before the game started, for years like a normal master/padawan rather than just "here's your new master" and then like 1 story day later you're a full fledged jedi and your "master" really was just some questgiver who you knew for 6 hours and taught you nothing. O_o

[Aeneas_Falco]

JLazarillo's post about the master/padawan thing made me think of something. I wish in both jedi class stories that your master had been your master before the game started, for years like a normal master/padawan rather than just "here's your new master" and then like 1 story day later you're a full fledged jedi and your "master" really was just some questgiver who you knew for 6 hours and taught you nothing. O_o

 

So much this.

 

I thought the "here's your new master" bit with both Jedi class stories was odd, considering in the films we usually see masters paired with padawans for years. Obi Wan practically raised Anakin. What happened to the masters they had before Tython?

 

The other issue is that when your master either runs into situations where they're in danger or are killed, the padawan is somewhat distraught over it, yet since you go on missions without your master in the game the close relationship with masters seems to come out of nowhere. That reaction would make more sense if the Jedi player characters had been with their masters since they were children.

 

One other change I'd make with the Jedi masters is having them be your companion on Tython & Coruscant. The story would have to be restructured somewhat to have you following their lead within the story, but that would be more in line with how Jedi masters train their padawans. Unlike Sith Lords and Darths they don't hide from danger while sending apprentices to do their dirty work.

[SithKoriandr]

JLazarillo's post about the master/padawan thing made me think of something. I wish in both jedi class stories that your master had been your master before the game started, for years like a normal master/padawan rather than just "here's your new master" and then like 1 story day later you're a full fledged jedi and your "master" really was just some questgiver who you knew for 6 hours and taught you nothing. O_o

 

I got the feeling you, the player, are supposed to believe you spent more time with them, than just the two hours we get in game now.

[Nefla]

I got the feeling you, the player, are supposed to believe you spent more time with them, than just the two hours we get in game now.

Maybe, but not MUCH more. I mean how much time can they reasonably say catching Nalen Raloch or Bengell Morr? A day? Two days? A week? Certainly not much more than that. Even if you could believe that catching that person took months, it's still nowhere near the years of being trained from childhood by a master like you see in the movies and tv shows. Your character is explicitly introduced to their master for the first time when they arrived on Tython and they're already an adult (or at the youngest like 17) and then afterwards they're a fully fledged jedi knight.

 

 

 

So much this.

 

I thought the "here's your new master" bit with both Jedi class stories was odd, considering in the films we usually see masters paired with padawans for years. Obi Wan practically raised Anakin. What happened to the masters they had before Tython?

 

The other issue is that when your master either runs into situations where they're in danger or are killed, the padawan is somewhat distraught over it, yet since you go on missions without your master in the game the close relationship with masters seems to come out of nowhere. That reaction would make more sense if the Jedi player characters had been with their masters since they were children.

 

One other change I'd make with the Jedi masters is having them be your companion on Tython & Coruscant. The story would have to be restructured somewhat to have you following their lead within the story, but that would be more in line with how Jedi masters train their padawans. Unlike Sith Lords and Darths they don't hide from danger while sending apprentices to do their dirty work.

Yeah I really don't get it. They could have had the jedi character and their master come to Tython together for the padawan's final trials. It wouldn't have been hard to set up. Then they could have had them questing together for the duration of the planet like you said. That way the connection would have actually made sense and

made Master Orgus' death much more effective and emotional

. There's even a dialogue option later in the game to tell an NPC that Master Orgus "taught me everything I know." Like wut?

Edited March 6, 2017 by Nefla

[TalonVII]

Maybe, but not MUCH more. I mean how much time can they reasonably say catching Nalen Raloch or Bengell Morr? A day? Two days? A week? Certainly not much more than that. Even if you could believe that catching that person took months, it's still nowhere near the years of being trained from childhood by a master like you see in the movies and tv shows. Your character is explicitly introduced to their master for the first time when they arrived on Tython and they're already an adult (or at the youngest like 17) and then afterwards they're a fully fledged jedi knight.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I really don't get it. They could have had the jedi character and their master come to Tython together for the padawan's final trials. It wouldn't have been hard to set up. Then they could have had them questing together for the duration of the planet like you said. That way the connection would have actually made sense and

made Master Orgus' death much more effective and emotional

. There's even a dialogue option later in the game to tell an NPC that Master Orgus "taught me everything I know." Like wut?

 

I agree, it could of been even "Master Orgus left me with other masters to do some final studying before coming here". And with the Consular the master there could of gone under "She was called in as one of the best archaeologists in the Jedi and she left me there to complete my studies of [insert something here] before coming to join her here".

 

Could of been very small inserts, but could of been much more a long the lines of what we know about Master/Padawan relationships.

 

As far as I am concerned, the Sith Inquisitor and Warrior were quite well done, and there isn't too much I'd change from there. I mean you're an apprentice much longer and under the care of Baras and Zash, so you get more attached to them.

 

Far as the other stories go, with the BH, i really wish you could choose to kill off Skadge from the get go but:

 

least that got fixed in his alert later on. You can actually kill him off.

 

 

The Smuggler, that had potential, but it got wasted. Chapter 1 was AMAZING. Chapter 2 and 3, you just become a Republic lapdog who gets screwed over. I mean you have hints while being the lap dog of creating your own underworld empire, but you really don't feel it.

 

Trooper, was just a disjointed mess. I never felt like I was leading a squad till the Gauntlet mission. There was so much they could of done with the story. Example the first mission on Tatooine. They could of had the whole squad there, and then depending on who I have for the companion, I could have told Dorne "keep an eye on these people and get them stable. Jorgan, take charge of the defenses and make sure those robots don't come back. 4X on me!"

 

Stuff like that to make it seem like I'm controlling a squad. Not just leaving most the team on the ship twiddling their thumbs while I and my trusty companion go out and do the whole mission. So much potential wasted.

 

Agent was my favorite and there isn't much I would change there.

[AhsokaTanorules]

I was also disappointed when this game became lazy with class stories though I suppose with the letting go of voice actors and this game not being as successful as WoW they had to cut back.

 

I always stated back in 2.0 that if they had done the whole class story format that they should have had it that the force using classes would be more involved with the Dread Master stuff with each of the 4 force using classes facing one of the Dread Masters in their story. The Bouny Hunter could have done the Darvannis story and face the Dread Master there and perhaps have a run in with the Geno haradan to start the whole anti Saresh story. The troopers could have faced the Dread guards. The smuggler in particular would do the Makeb story and do the part where the Hutts are convinced to join the Republic and the Agent is the one who goes to makeb to procure the Isotope 5 and prevent Makeb's destruction while keeping the Empire's presence hush hush.

 

Now for this Zakuul story....Yes it makes more sense that the force using classes are more involved with the whole valkorion taking them over deal. The non force users should have been more involved in the story to get the military and underworld aspects to join the resistance. The smuggler gets Hylo Visz, the troopers get Beywan (and particularly witness Saresh's downfall) and so on.

[Estelindis]

Now for this Zakuul story....Yes it makes more sense that the force using classes are more involved with the whole valkorion taking them over deal. The non force users should have been more involved in the story to get the military and underworld aspects to join the resistance. The smuggler gets Hylo Visz, the troopers get Beywan (and particularly witness Saresh's downfall) and so on.

Definitely. Once I hit chapter 12 of KotET, it became impossible to ignore that the story would work better with divergence for Force-users and non-Force-users. Instead of having one Imperial and one Republic storyline, like Makeb, there could have been two storylines based on Force sensitivity. They wouldn't need to have been completely different, just substantially.

[JLazarillo]

Now for this Zakuul story....Yes it makes more sense that the force using classes are more involved with the whole valkorion taking them over deal.

If you think Valkorion wanted to take control of the player character because of their "power", you missed the point of Valkorion's character.

[Nefla]

Valkorion is a Chester Molester. I had to show Lana on a doll where Valkorion touched me.