Respect for Healers

[btmart]

 

Because, **** 'em!

[Halinalle]

 

And that's why you always let the "elite damage dealer" die. Dead damage dealer = 0 dps.

 

Scoundrel/Operative healing is nightmare for someone who has minimal experience. Commando/Mercenary healing a is bit easier for new healer but still requires a lot. Sage/Sorcerer healing requires better reflexes but can be easy because even I can do in Taral V so...

Edited August 30, 2016 by Halinalle

[Pirana]

Please enlighten me! I've been guarding the healer and only the healer in Flashpoints (I don't do ops) for YEARS! What am I supposed to do with my guard to be a good tank?

 

I'd like some advice on this as well for my own tanks.

 

I generally guard Healers first, but if they have another's guard on, I toss the guard onto Agent/Smuggler/Sorc/Sage since those guys can be more squishy (yeah yeah, Sorc/Sage can heal themselves and can be durable if the player knows how and soforth).

 

Check this link out, it gives a basic rundown of how threat works.

 

Guard the person who is building the highest threat. USUALLY that's one of the DPS.

 

You don't use Guard for damage reduction; you use it for the threat reduction. Therefore the Healer probably never needs it. This sums it up. This is a common mistake a lot of tanks make, shield is a threat reduction ability. Although there will be situations where the dps is so bad, that the healer will draw aggro, Tactical FPS come to mind.

 

If there's melee and ranged DPS in the group, priority should probably go to the melee DPS

 

Another good example above. If you have a melee and a ranged dps in your group, you typically guard the melee. If the ranged dps is out of range, something like 25 meters, the shield is irrelevant, I don't recall offhand, because I'm not in the game.

 

On topic, anonymity will sometimes bring out the worst in people, hence the term keyboard commando. Unfortunately healers seem to get the brunt of it.

[Halinalle]

Another good example above. If you have a melee and a ranged dps in your group, you typically guard the melee. If the ranged dps is out of range, something like 25 meters, the shield is irrelevant, I don't recall offhand, because I'm not in the game.

 

Threat & damage reduction works always, range doesn't matter. Damage transferring from guarded player to tank works only at close range and it's totally irrelevant in PvE.

 

Why still the melee dps? Because they are most likely to get hit by bosses cleave damage. Unless it's the tank who wants to kill the raid then that's another problem entirely.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Halinalle

[TUXs]

Guard the person who is building the highest threat. USUALLY that's one of the DPS.

 

You don't use Guard for damage reduction; you use it for the threat reduction. Therefore the Healer probably never needs it.

EXACTLY! I wish more people understood this. Thank you for explaining it so politely

[Pirana]

Threat & damage reduction works always, range doesn't matter. Damage transferring from guarded player to tank works only at close range and it's totally irrelevant in PvE.

 

Semantics. The conclusion is still the same.

[Tsetso]

Threat & damage reduction works always, range doesn't matter.

 

This is not true. Threat at <5m has different multiplier that's why it's preferred to guard melee.

[Manathayria]

This is not true. Threat at <5m has different multiplier that's why it's preferred to guard melee.

 

This is true, but if it is the difference between a healer dying because a little threat is transferred from them, or the healer living because the tank is pulling that slight amount of threat off the healer it is worth it to guard the healer. Remember, it is not just the main target that single target melee is attacking that the tank may need to hold, there may be other targets the melee is not hitting that the tank is getting threat off the healer for.

 

Situational and being aware of who is pulling threat and where determines which you need to guard.

[Halinalle]

EXACTLY! I wish more people understood this. Thank you for explaining it so politely

 

It's not set and forget. Use it as situation dictates. Some of the bosses probably still require creative use of guard at highest difficulty level.

[ikinai]

Hey, what happened to the healer respect? I tell ya, healers, we get no respect.

[TUXs]

It's not set and forget. Use it as situation dictates. Some of the bosses probably still require creative use of guard at highest difficulty level.

Of course. Boss fights with multiple add spawns are a prime example, as well as bosses who can't be taunted.

[Halinalle]

Hey, what happened to the healer respect? I tell ya, healers, we get no respect.

 

When I trained a bit my Jedi healing powers on fleet I forgot I was queued and of course Taral V popped. Well, didn't want to waste their time and change discipline & gear so I used my Jedi healing powers to help others. They rushed. Never stopped to use out of combat heal. So I was constantly at 20-40% force. At the end I only got one thank you in form of "thank you for switching to healing". Not a nice experience. Droid boss was quite tough for us.

 

First time healing at 65 and first time Sage healing.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Halinalle

[Loadsamonie]

This is true, but if it is the difference between a healer dying because a little threat is transferred from them, or the healer living because the tank is pulling that slight amount of threat off the healer it is worth it to guard the healer. Remember, it is not just the main target that single target melee is attacking that the tank may need to hold, there may be other targets the melee is not hitting that the tank is getting threat off the healer for.

 

Situational and being aware of who is pulling threat and where determines which you need to guard.

 

That's really where the AoE taunt comes into play. If there's a bunch of adds that the DPS are not hitting, Guard or not, the Healer is still likely to get their attention. I would say to Guard the healer if this happens though, just so they can live longer through the proximity damage redirection, hopefully long enough to peel.

 

A good tank pays attention to the situation and knows when to Guard swap, especially in PvP. You should never just be guarding the healer in PvP (although it is good to start with them). You should be watching the health of everyone within range of you, and swapping Guard to whoever is getting smacked the hardest, constantly using Guardian Leap and Taunts to mitigate as much of that damage as possible. Unfortunately, if the other team realizes that the Guard is coming from YOU and decides to tunnel you, there's not much you can do unless there's a healer with you. Pop your cooldowns and survive as long as you can. If you can't win, then stall and buy your team as much time as possible (DOUBLY so if you're being overwhelmed at an objective control point).

 

In PvE, you Guard whoever is likely to build the highest threat to keep them from ripping aggro off of you. If someone starts getting hit hard, you Guard them to help them live longer so you have time to peel. If someone is the target of boss tunneling mechanics, you Guard them to help them live through that phase of the fight, then swap Guard back to whoever the highest threat builder is during the spank phase.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Loadsamonie

[ikinai]

When I trained a bit my Jedi healing powers on fleet I forgot I was queued and of course Taral V popped. Well, didn't want to waste their time and change discipline & gear so I used my Jedi healing powers to help others. They rushed. Never stopped to use out of combat heal. So I was constantly at 20-40% force. At the end I only got one thank you in form of "thank you for switching to healing". Not a nice experience. Droid boss was quite tough for us.

 

Hehe, it's too bad you couldn't yell 'I heal you with Jedi powers!' every time

 

And I hear ya, I've done things like that before too, been on tank, instead of dps, healer instead of tank..at first you're like, why are you guys yelling...oh, my bad. But, like you, ya muddle through it, hoping you don't do too bad

[sumquy]

This is not true. Threat at <5m has different multiplier that's why it's preferred to guard melee.

 

i think what he was saying is that the threat reduction from guard works no matter range, not that range doesn't effect how much threat builds.

[Thoronmir]

Hehe, it's too bad you couldn't yell 'I heal you with Jedi powers!' every time

I read this using He-Man's voice in my head. On that topic, am I the only one who considered his famous battle cry the most redundantly phrased battle cry of all the heroes? I mean, seriously? "By the power of Greyskull ... I have the power!" Sure, Superman's "Up, up, and away!" maybe runs a close second. But by the power, he had the power? That's like me declaring, "By the pancakes of IHOP ... I have the pancakes!" So, to return to the topic, I believe the preferred healing cry is:

 

"By the power of the Jedi ... I heal you with Jedi powers!"

[Savej]

I hate the fact that healers exist. They wreck the dynamic of what I think a game like this should be and healing kills any hope of immersion for me (guns shooting healing bullets? C'mon... nothing remotely like them in the movies). That said I almost always tip them an mvp vote in pvp.

[Loadsamonie]

I hate the fact that healers exist. They wreck the dynamic of what I think a game like this should be and healing kills any hope of immersion for me (guns shooting healing bullets? C'mon... nothing remotely like them in the movies). That said I almost always tip them an mvp vote in pvp.

 

When I first heard about this game, back when it was still in development, I really thought it was going to be something unique and refreshing. The LAST thing I was expecting was a WoW clone/Themepark MMO.

[Thoronmir]

I hate the fact that healers exist. They wreck the dynamic of what I think a game like this should be and healing kills any hope of immersion for me (guns shooting healing bullets? C'mon... nothing remotely like them in the movies). That said I almost always tip them an mvp vote in pvp.

While I sympathize, because I share your skepticism over whether the American Medical Association would condone using live ammunition to treat wounds, it all depends on adjusting one's perspective. After all, if memory serves, my BH isn't really firing blaster ... plasma? (not sure what the base ammo actually is) ... to heal, he's firing a Kolto dart ... i.e., a long-distance injection of Kolto. As a totally biased Sage-a-phile, Force healing seems much more viable given that the central theme of the galaxy centers on Space Magic.

 

It's like in LOTRO. Player characters don't have a "Health" stat or "Hit Points" ... we have "Morale." Lose all your Morale and you aren't dead, you're just "Defeated." Once defeated, you do not ghost back to the graveyard, you "Retreat" to a safe spot, conveniently marked with a ring of white stones. Setting aside changes made in LOTRO, the fundamental healing class was Minstrel. As in, "Hey, Minstrel, I just got owned by the Balrog, can you play a jaunty tune and make me feel better about things?" This system led to serious, lore-driven debates over what song should a Minstrel play to mend a broken arm versus healing a nasty burn. But let's face it, even with a broken arm or nasty burn, once you hear "Walking on Sunshine" played on a lute, it's hard not to feel better.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Thoronmir

[ikinai]

While I sympathize, because I share your skepticism over whether the American Medical Association would condone using live ammunition to treat wounds, it all depends on adjusting one's perspective. After all, if memory serves, my BH isn't really firing blaster ... plasma? (not sure what the base ammo actually is) ... to heal, he's firing a Kolto dart ... i.e., a long-distance injection of Kolto. As a totally biased Sage-a-phile, Force healing seems much more viable given that the central theme of the galaxy centers on Space Magic.

 

It's like in LOTRO. Player characters don't have a "Health" stat or "Hit Points" ... we have "Morale." Lose all your Morale and you aren't dead, you're just "Defeated." Once defeated, you do not ghost back to the graveyard, you "Retreat" to a safe spot, conveniently marked with a ring of white stones. Setting aside changes made in LOTRO, the fundamental healing class was Minstrel. As in, "Hey, Minstrel, I just got owned by the Balrog, can you play a jaunty tune and make me feel better about things?" This system led to serious, lore-driven debates over what song should a Minstrel play to mend a broken arm versus healing a nasty burn. But let's face it, even with a broken arm or nasty burn, once you hear "Walking on Sunshine" played on a lute, it's hard not to feel better.

 

Whenever I hear about magic minstrels singing magic and such I think about the Spellsinger series from Allan Dean Foster. I imagine I'd wind up much like Jon-Tom.

[Thoronmir]

Whenever I hear about magic minstrels singing magic and such I think about the Spellsinger series from Allan Dean Foster. I imagine I'd wind up much like Jon-Tom.

Yeah, but the thing still is ... with limited exceptions ... Minstrels aren't actually healing, they're raising one's Morale. It's like if the Rohirrim had a USO show at Helm's Deep.

 

LOTRO does have "Wounds" (and other status effects, such as "Poison", "Fear", and "Disease") that can be removed by class skills (e.g., my Hunter can remove Poison). But restoring what most games call "Health" by a LOTRO Minstrel is really just making us feel like tapping our toes. Also, I'd hate to descend deeper into a discussion of LOTRO lore, but Minstrel's songs aren't "magic" ... it's just mood music.

[ikinai]

Yeah, but the thing still is ... with limited exceptions ... Minstrels aren't actually healing, they're raising one's Morale. It's like if the Rohirrim had a USO show at Helm's Deep.

 

LOTRO does have "Wounds" (and other status effects, such as "Poison", "Fear", and "Disease") that can be removed by class skills (e.g., my Hunter can remove Poison). But restoring what most games call "Health" by a LOTRO Minstrel is really just making us feel like tapping our toes. Also, I'd hate to descend deeper into a discussion of LOTRO lore, but Minstrel's songs aren't "magic" ... it's just mood music.

 

Yeah, I guess it isn't magic, but it should be, so much more fun that way. More things can go wrong

[Loadsamonie]

Yeah, I guess it isn't magic, but it should be, so much more fun that way. More things can go wrong

 

What sucks in LOTRO is that you can't be an actual Wizard, a guy that can sling actual Magic around. You can be a Lorekeeper or a Runemaster, but neither one of them can actually use full-fledged Magic like a Mage can.

[TUXs]

What sucks in LOTRO is...

I was hoping you'd say Hobbits.

 

Full disclosure...I've played lotro and enjoyed it, but I've NEVER EVER been fond of Hobbits.

[ikinai]

I was hoping you'd say Hobbits.

 

Full disclosure...I've played lotro and enjoyed it, but I've NEVER EVER been fond of Hobbits.

 

They stole my precious.