OP's and KOTET

[Victor_Nite]

The only way it could be an act of revenge is if they pulled another dread master fiasco where they locked the story content behind ops.

 

Please NO! No more story locked behind an OP. I hate that they did that. I want a solo solution for that story as it is. I don't want it to ruin the raiders' fun, but for the rest of us a way we can enjoy it outside of an OP.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Victor_Nite

[BrotherJohn]

I am a little lost here how could it be revenge? I mean its called game development that actually focuses on the game called massively multiplayer.

 

In reality, they are not and will not make a new operation and if they do it certainly can't be just a single operation but on the lines of dread masters, a one-two punches so to say. The thing I see here is they just are not developing that sort of content because it takes a commitment from leadership to design and implements an operation that fits within a story. Something that has been very lacking so far in the chapter story content and by the looks of it with the new suggestions of a fractured story chapter system where you are playing not your character but an NPC with NPC skills.

 

They have the rights to star wars until 2019 at which time Disney will not give the license out to another game company but start to tap into the massive and I mean massive cash that awaits them by producing star wars game content on their own. It might not be an MMOrpg that we playing Swtor are wishing for but will be shuttered at that point. I feel this is the case due completely in part from the direction they have taken in the game. Make as much money as you can with as little actual game content development with the smallest actual production team as you could. It is why we see the poor chapter system stretched over 3/4 of a year and BW really only relying upon developing content for the cartel market.

[BrotherJohn]

Gear might be needed in KOTET in other places

 

Mission difficulty scaling is in, looks like possibly up to the level of an HM flashpoint for normal missions.

 

 

I look forward to the 5th with more info. So far, what I see in the teaser on Reddit is nothing concrete, and all left open to interpretation, with the potential to be really amazing.

 

As long as by release I hear the words "operation release" I will be happy.

 

Really not sure why you think it is any different from what is already in the game. In fact, they would not have developed anything new with regards to how things scale now unless they are reverting back to the vanilla story without level sync. As its stands now you do not even need PvE gear and can get away with PVP gear for all flashpoint content even hard mode flashpoints.

 

So yeah the additional tactical, sm and hm in the mining event stated really just means they are making sure your sick of the content before your at the HM step AND come dark vs light season two you have all those new achievements to add to the rotation on top of the already insanely overplayed old content.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

For whatever it may be worth (I'm not here arguing how big a segment raiders make of the population, or what they contribute. Those things are all debateable and not the purpose of this post):

 

A good many communities in the game have been built around the operations content this game has provided. Lots of friendships have been formed. What will happen if an operation doesn't drop with Kotet is that these communities will be destroyed. While some of the relationships formed will last and transcend games, many will die by the way side as people who don't want to put forth the effort of re-leveling and regearing to do the content they just passed through all over again leave. So call us raiders entitled. Call us whiners. Call us whatever you may like to. But, don't ignore the fact that raiding has created long lasting communities of people who've become close, and these communities are now in jeapardy. Whether you or people who think as you do consider the loss of whole communities ok is your choice and your opinion. I personally think it's a tragedy of epic proportions considering they don't need to undergo such destruction. Shadow of Revan was a superb expansion when you think of it structurally. Everyone got what they wanted. Maybe not pvpers, but story got story. PVE got their due. Things seemed really good. Even the balance sheet showed dramatic improvement. Why alienate when its not needed?

 

I'm sure there's a lot of people who play this game because of the solo story aspect. Totally fine. I just get really tired of hearing the same insult over and over again about how raiders are sooooo entitled (especially when those spewing the insults literally have no clue about the motivations regarding the segment their attempting to insult). Not too long ago story people were the ones crying. Not long before that pvpers were crying. So don't forget your feet have been in our shoes before.

 

I think you made a great post. What I think the issue is, that there are some people that will never experience that type of community. Generally they are the ones that join a guild, and are so toxic that they end up being removed. So their main goal is to belittle the guild community, and raiders simple make an easy target.

 

generally I have found that these people use forums alot. Are always negative about certain groups, whether it is pvp, or ops or whatever. Then they try to stir things up and tear things down, all under the "I just want to see the game do better" excuse.

 

It is what it is, these people wont change and though they are a minority they are vocal.

[Mahoukenshi]

I think you made a great post. What I think the issue is, that there are some people that will never experience that type of community. Generally they are the ones that join a guild, and are so toxic that they end up being removed. So their main goal is to belittle the guild community, and raiders simple make an easy target.

 

generally I have found that these people use forums alot. Are always negative about certain groups, whether it is pvp, or ops or whatever. Then they try to stir things up and tear things down, all under the "I just want to see the game do better" excuse.

 

It is what it is, these people wont change and though they are a minority they are vocal.

 

You sound a bit paranoid. In EVERY MMO community has been the usual 0815 battles between non-raiders vs raiders, pve vs pvp or whatever you want to name it. And it's the forums where usually the EXTREME opinions (e.g. the elitist raider who behaves like a jerk and tries to tell other how and what to play + the trash-talking non-raider faction who may indeed want everything now and for free) are gathered, that's right. There's no big toxicity aimed specifically at raiders just for the sake of trying to "trash" them, or behold, explicitly get kick out of ruining those guilds. People who don't know those special tight-knit raid guilds are not ONLY the toxic ones, but choose their playstayle for other reasons. Is it a shame? Surely for you as you have made good experience with it and other posters here, but not explicitly for every non-raider

[CorellianWannabe]

I think you made a great post. What I think the issue is, that there are some people that will never experience that type of community. Generally they are the ones that join a guild, and are so toxic that they end up being removed. So their main goal is to belittle the guild community, and raiders simple make an easy target.

 

generally I have found that these people use forums alot. Are always negative about certain groups, whether it is pvp, or ops or whatever. Then they try to stir things up and tear things down, all under the "I just want to see the game do better" excuse.

 

It is what it is, these people wont change and though they are a minority they are vocal.

 

Just like there are people that are so toxic they can only tolerate each other, so they congregate into guilds, so they can grudgingly cooperate to copy strategies developed by better guilds to get shiny carrots?

[Chiltonium]

Just like there are people that are so toxic they can only tolerate each other, so they congregate into guilds, so they can grudgingly cooperate to copy strategies developed by better guilds to get shiny carrots?

 

The pursuit of carrots is the goal in life. New cars, new houses, new gfs/bfs, new clothes. You honestly think it'd be different in swtor? story. companions. mounts. they're all carrots. The raiders are the billionaires with the best carrots the rest of the plebs gets mad about not having and protest.

[CorellianWannabe]

The pursuit of carrots is the goal in life. New cars, new houses, new gfs/bfs, new clothes. You honestly think it'd be different in swtor? story. companions. mounts. they're all carrots. The raiders are the billionaires with the best carrots the rest of the plebs gets mad about not having and protest.

 

Odd, I'm quite content with my residence, my vehicle, my girlfriend, and my wardrobe. Apparently some people feel the need to trade in their relationships for a new model though.

[Halinalle]

Fine, just so long as we don't gate story behind Ops ever again.

 

I heard Blizzard is doing this exact thing in Legion. You have to do group content to progress in story.

In MMO that's not a bad thing.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Halinalle

[AllisonLightning]

I heard Blizzard is doing this exact thing in Legion. You have to do group content to progress in story.

In MMO that's not a bad thing.

 

It is when the whole raiders versus solo players in this game is toxic enough that people on both sides want the other to have less content. Like I've said, you've got a situation now where some solo players see raiding as competition and supporting raiding as leading to another Dread War fiasco.

 

This isn't about other games or a genre. Having both choices helps the game and it isn't high ground to insist that it's not a bad thing when story progress is gated by grouping- it's feeding the problem. I fully defend the right for group content, I believe raiders should have their version of an expansion's final mission and KOTFE isn't great. But you've got solo players determined to defend it no matter what because they think the only alternative is raiding/group gated story content.

[Mahoukenshi]

I heard Blizzard is doing this exact thing in Legion. You have to do group content to progress in story.

In MMO that's not a bad thing.

 

Hasn't WoW done the same thing since the very beginning? The whole Artas showdown behind raid-or-die, for example, even though their "solo" story telling was improved with the introduction of phasing (ignoring its weak spots when you wanted to team up but were at different phasing levels) and Cata's great area storylines.

 

Otherwise, it is a bad thing. Grouping should be fun and provide enough incentive but not at the cost of being mandatory for the story. MMO is many people playing at the same time on the same server(s). One of that activity includes group play and for sure put epic gear, cosmetics and challenge behind it, and/or a separate interesting story.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Mahoukenshi

[Halinalle]

Otherwise, it is a bad thing. Grouping should be fun and provide enough incentive but not at the cost of being mandatory for the story. MMO is many people playing at the same time on the same server(s). One of that activity includes group play and for sure put epic gear, cosmetics and challenge behind it, and/or a separate interesting story.

 

I get that in SWTOR grouping too. Players just want to have fun (aka "I want to be carried") and they hate when group wipes even once because that's just wasting epic player's time and credits.

[Canmore]

I would like to chime in as a non raider and give an opinion why being in the no more raids camp is a silly stance.

everyday my raider friends help me do heroics and other stuff while they are not in a op and my game is made way more easy with there contribution ,. they help me complete stuff quickly and efficiently and we have a laugh doing it

i cant raid anything harder than a story mode because my mind struggles with complex tasks , i'm not an idiot but i am ill . my game is enhanced by my raider friends input every day and i would lose many kind people from my day if they left cause they had no challenging content to do . it would sad'en me

 

my two cents , yes there are some elitist jerks but most raiders are decent kind folks who help me every day

[AllisonLightning]

I get that in SWTOR grouping too. Players just want to have fun (aka "I want to be carried") and they hate when group wipes even once because that's just wasting epic player's time and credits.

 

We had a new guild member quit on us during an Operation wipe, the group and then the guild. The bosses on the next go round with the full eight members were taken down and we got close the first time, didn't wipe on any other bosses after the fact. We hold events as a guild for the benefit of our members and what irked me was them not saying upfront they wanted certain things out of a guild's raids so we could tell them that wasn't what we did as a mainstay and that wipes do happen. I'll take dozens of 'joins guild, stays invisibly till 65 and then /gquit' over someone who joins and wants the perks of endgame guild activities without the understanding it might not always go perfectly.

 

Anyone in the guild was eligible to participate and it was as much a teaching exercise as it was a run. I'm not a big fan of Operations (unless I'm healing and my character's still getting up there on faction side) but I was there to help so yes, I was annoyed that at the 'first' hint of not being a cakewalk, they left. The repair costs were far more brutal for the rest of us at max level and varied stages of endgame gear.

[Tsillah]

It is what it is, these people wont change and though they are a minority they are vocal.

 

Well, to be honest you seem to be a vocal minority all by yourself.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Well, to be honest you seem to be a vocal minority all by yourself.

 

Maybe I am, but at least I do not rail on, trying to disenfranchise a group of players, because I dont happen to share their interests. Personally, I dont think this monthly chapter thing is worth crap. It is a couple hours of crap content, with no real meaning. But it is the route BW is taking now.

 

But when they do return to making some OPs, and they will, I would not try to say screw you to people that enjoy solo play and story.

Edited September 4, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[BrotherJohn]

Maybe I am, but at least I do not rail on, trying to disenfranchise a group of players, because I dont happen to share their interests. Personally, I dont think this monthly chapter thing is worth crap. It is a couple hours of crap content, with no real meaning. But it is the route BW is taking now.

 

But when they do return to making some OPs, and they will, I would not try to say screw you to people that enjoy solo play and story.

 

The thing i think your off on is that they will return to makign ops. they wont and have no real plan to return to making ops. EA has rights until 2019 and i do believe now that disney has no plans to renew it and will in fact use lucas arts to start producing and publishing games to earn more of the sw gaming money available.

[Tsillah]

Maybe I am, but at least I do not rail on, trying to disenfranchise a group of players, because I dont happen to share their interests. Personally, I dont think this monthly chapter thing is worth crap. It is a couple hours of crap content, with no real meaning. But it is the route BW is taking now.

 

But when they do return to making some OPs, and they will, I would not try to say screw you to people that enjoy solo play and story.

 

That is certainly fair enough. I can appreciate that and I actually agree with you.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

The thing i think your off on is that they will return to makign ops. they wont and have no real plan to return to making ops. EA has rights until 2019 and i do believe now that disney has no plans to renew it and will in fact use lucas arts to start producing and publishing games to earn more of the sw gaming money available.

 

I generally dont waste any time on assumptions from people that have no association to either BW or EA. They are just trying to pull what may or may not have been meant in some interview.

 

That is no better then the people arguing semantics about what BW meant, or may have meant in regards to the qualifications for the HK chapter. In the end, it is just forum posting BS.

[Tanitha]

Personally, I love raiding. Nowadays, I do HMs, as SMs are a joke, and just do them mostly for conquest, if I'm bored, to help a guildie or need quick comms. For gearing up, at the moment I have 2-3 sets of each 216/220 gear from various drops in the various ops runs.

 

What I think: if they raise level cap, and no new ops, why should I grind gear again? Just to play a few bosses that I have not cleared? And with whom? As most raiders will leave without any new content. At the moment, my main character has full 224 gear, except an OH hilt, with which I've been unlucky (either a couple of bad players in group so could not clear, or I rolled low) . And why also bother with a new rotation? As everything will change ONCE MORE?

 

Our guild has a lot of raiders. Already the whole main team we had, quit because they had all achievs (even Ravs/ToS 5/5), and there was no new content with KOTFE. KOTFE is okay as solo although some of the chapters were dragging it, and some chapters could have expanded. It needed an ops after chapter 9, and one with 16. Could have made the same thing as in SoR, the option to solo it, or to do an ops. That was a great idea and should be repeated.

BW and EA should look into more ops, as they will lose a lot of people if they don't start producing new ops.

 

And what I think of current player base: most players, especially new players, don't know how to play their class. And don't care. And because everything has been nerfed to bits, most don't even try to learn. And they don't even want to do an ops or anything like that, just grind money from heroics. Before 3.0, even SM ops were more difficult, and you needed at least the comms gear (or you could get carried if others were good), and know a little bit about your class.

Also, it was a bad idea having EV and KP as prio ops, as they are sooo easy, a good player can do it in less gear than 216. I have done KP HM with 216 gear and 148 and less relics/implants/ear and still got really good dps (I know my class and spec quite well). Everyone can get a 224 MH or a full 224 set bonus with EV/KP...

It was also a bad idea getting the L60 character tokens out. Lots of new players, having L60-65 characters, not knowing stories, not knowing their class... I spent my L60 token making another marauder, as it is my main class, and know it. Did not go to make a class I either had not played, or did not use much in ops and stuff.

And as for FPs: great solo modes. At least you can get through some stuff, without waiting for a pop. But making tacticals from L10-65? That was a bad idea. Some tacticals need a bit of tactics to get through, and I have left a few, because people did not follow tactics, and I could not spent hours wiping, or paying like 100K for a repair bill, because some pugs were not listening. At L10 you can't get raised to L65. You don't have yet the powers that are given to someone that is L65. I preferred the FPs by levels as it was before 4.0. Made more sense, as now, in the tacticals the higher level carries literally the lowest ones. Try play an FP with L15, anL20 and L25 as an L65...

 

My 2 cents, anyways.

[Slowpokeking]

WOW, some people still think storyline should be locked in raid.

[Slowpokeking]

The Dread Master plot was mostly bland, the only interesting part was Oricon and maybe their voice over in the ops. They were cool characters but was handled horribly.