Please Make Hard Mode Flashpoints Worth it.

[demotivator]

Hah. I've been running all the HM FP (two each night) with a friend (two manning them with our companions) on DvL toons. I usually go with toons that have a mixture of drop gear and the intro implants/relics you get from warzones.

 

Gear doesn't matter.

 

Edit: we do this because we are indeed tired of carrying arsenal mercs in plasma cell or sages who use saber strike.

 

Right. You have 2-manned HM Blood Hunt

Edited August 16, 2016 by demotivator

[Greezt]

Right. You have 2-manned HM Blood Hunt

 

Alright. I've actually seen a video on reddit of someone 2-manning it without companions, so the fact that we did it with them shouldn't be surprising... But yeah. Not possible.

[JessieLoverRxE]

I barely do FPs anymore, because everything else seems to be more worth my time.

[ross_deutsch]

Hah. I've been running all the HM FP (two each night) with a friend (two manning them with our companions) on DvL toons. I usually go with toons that have a mixture of drop gear and the intro implants/relics you get from warzones.

 

Gear doesn't matter.

 

Edit: we do this because we are indeed tired of carrying arsenal mercs in plasma cell or sages who use saber strike.

 

Then why do people freak out on my tank pvp gear mixed with 208 common crystal gear, while I work for 216 pieces? If gear doesn't matter.

 

Also people can knock crystal gear all they want, I am not spending time doing SM OPs for set bonus gear when I know 216 is just fine for HM ops as I have worked on 1 toon enough to be mostly 216 and has no trouble, unless it is with fail *** people. Which is quite common on Harbinger and worse on Jedi Covenant.

[Halinalle]

I'm on Harb, and ever since the launch of 4.0 I honestly can't recall more than maybe three 16 man runs anymore, at least via pugging. Just because it requires more effort to put in a group doesn't automatically mean it should yield better rewards if the difficulty isn't curved up. Does this mean when we have 40 man raids, and since its larger than 16 man, it should yield better rewards, regardless of difficulty?

 

There:

Titan 6 enrage at 48% in SM. What HM FP can compare to that?

 

Right. You have 2-manned HM Blood Hunt

 

What's the difficult part? Jos&Valk? Keep companions in middle and kill them. It's that easy.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Halinalle

[DarthEnrique]

Yesh what were they thinking expecting a challenging goal for a "Legenday" achievement. Crazy right?

 

Honestly, this just shows that SWTOR is going down the drain. The Legendary achievement shouldn't be that challenging, and you're wrong if you think this attitude is a great way to get new players into the game to make them have bad experience or not learn the mechanics of hard mode flashpoints or OPS or anything because people don't have the decency to have the patience to help the new players out. That's ridiculous. I couldn't have learned OPS or HM flashpoints if I hadn't had someone showing me but I can't help players out if you can't get into HM flashpoints and with little people on the servers as it is and very little activity in guilds it's like what are you suppose to do? Half the times people rage quit on OPS, but I've enjoyed a lot of the PVE content of this game but it's frustrating and ridiculous how difficult it is to do a flashpoint in HM or form an OPS because people don't have the time and patience to teach new people or want to help and just want to leave at the first failed attempt.

Edited August 16, 2016 by CommunityDroidEU
rude

[Khevar]

The Legendary achievement shouldn't be that challenging

Why not?

 

It's the very highest level of achievement in this event. It requires a player to do practically all content in the entire game.

, and you're a fool if you think this attitude is a great way to get new players into the game to make them have bad experience or not learn the mechanics of hard mode flashpoints or OPS or anything because people don't have the decency to have the patience to help the new players out.

People have troubles with flashpoints and operations because EVERY BIT OF CONTENT up to that point has been so easy the player never had to learn mechanics, or interrupts, or CC, or playing strategically.

 

There is a lack of any kind of decent gradient between the "you could fall asleep and still win" and "you're going to die if you don't follow the mechanics"

 

IMO, this condition has been exacerbated by the changes in 4.0.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Khevar

[DarthEnrique]

Why not?

 

It's the very highest level of achievement in this event. It requires a player to do practically all content in the entire game.

 

People have troubles with flashpoints and operations because EVERY BIT OF CONTENT up to that point has been so easy the player never had to learn mechanics, or interrupts, or CC, or playing strategically.

 

There is a lack of any kind of decent gradient between the "you could fall asleep and still win" and "you're going to die if you don't follow the mechanics"

 

IMO, this condition has been exacerbated by the changes in 4.0.

 

Wow! So because the player base doesn't want to do HM flashpoints people have to miss out for something they could achieve if people queued. Stop trolling if you're not going to read the full problem and just focus on what you want. Players like you disgust me. You don't want to see the issue as an issue and even before the Dark Vs. Light Event this was an issue.

[peter_plankskull]

As a representation of what it's like to read this post, I present images of people drowning in wine

 

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/134365585-new-jersey-resident-drowning-into-a-wine-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=ccr8YjaOH8K63AZyPGrLxwjxrHl9USRnWY9WzEMBKiNCsGnwB76GJMf8jRoGCnGE

 

https://bigpinekey.com/wp-content/uploads/duke-of-clarence-drowning.jpg

Went on the forums to see the patch notes, saw my thread and decided to take a look... and found this.

 

Another garbage post from you, which doesn't further the argument at all and only incites antagonistic tendencies. To think when I saw your name and assumed that something constructive would be in a post. Boy I was I wrong.

 

Please stop with garbage like this or don't post at all. It has nothing to do with the subject and only serves as a personal attack.

Edited August 16, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[peter_plankskull]

There:

Titan 6 enrage at 48% in SM. What HM FP can compare to that?

 

 

 

What's the difficult part? Jos&Valk? Keep companions in middle and kill them. It's that easy.

 

One bad instance doesn't mean its objectively always easier/harder between the two. I recently got into a nightmare run on Athiss with the worst DPS and tank possible...

 

Commando 65 DPS with armoring piercing cell on and only spams explosive round and hammer shot. "Tank" level 60 token Vanguard, literally in 74 green companion gear and just joined the game. Got better as the run went on figuring out their abilities by reading the tool tips, but still nooby as hell. Somehow we get past the first boss due to my DPS and a great healer, but the kath hound giant beast is a show stopper as the adds tear me apart, and with the other members its impossible. Shame... tank was a nice person but due to zero gating of the content got in way over their head... like middle of the ocean first time in water surrounded by great whites over their head...

 

Jos and Valk still require a incrediblely large DPS, heal, and high use of aggro management, along with timing of DCs when JOS stacks are starting to get high, compared to SNV cartel war lords which is all kill order... Admitably most OPs bosses have far more unique mechanics to sometimes follow, but the knowledge of the class required is quite low.

 

Hah. I've been running all the HM FP (two each night) with a friend (two manning them with our companions) on DvL toons. I usually go with toons that have a mixture of drop gear and the intro implants/relics you get from warzones.

 

Gear doesn't matter.

 

Edit: we do this because we are indeed tired of carrying arsenal mercs in plasma cell or sages who use saber strike.

 

I recently did Maelstrom prison with two companions, so I wouldn't completely call out "bs" on this... but come on... assault on tython... battle of rishi... blood hunt... korriban... these are practically impossible to do with companions. Maybe if you do the stairs glitch for the first boss on AOT... but I find it awfully hard you do shield squadron with companions...

 

Not to mention just because two highly skilled and capable people of their class finish HM FPs doesn't mean "gear doesn't matter." The average person will not be able to do most bosses with that crappy 208 blue comm gear it drops and will probably require 216 set bonuses. If a gold medal swimmer in the Olympics swims a world competition and wins, it doesn't mean the competition is useless, it just isn't as large as a accomplishment. Much like a HM/NIM raider doing HM FPs in low gear with companions.

 

About the DVL event and hard mode flashpoints...worst incentive ever to increase participation ever imo. Due to the fact its only a single run through it, people are just "Getting it over with" and don't bother gearing because "DVL brah." People aren't trying because... well... people actually aren't doing it for hard mode flashpoints... their doing it for flashy rewards the event gives rather than what the content itself supplies. If HM FPs had some better decos with better drop chances (better be 100% chance for some of those bonus bosses) unique pets, interesting gear, actually credit rewards depending on a certain amount of runs , something, anything decent worthy in terms of customization without mundane drop chances, people may take a interest in them and actually try when doing these.

Edited August 17, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Nempo]

Here is the biggest amusement I have with much of this discussion and it can be bets put by the first page. Raiders cryign that if things like HM flashpoints give rewards comparable to raids then raids would die. The whole point you do anything is for fun. If you are only raiding for the gear, you are doign it wrong mate.

 

I don't raid, because it ain't fun. I PvP. So this whole discussion doesn't effect me really. However all raiders everywhere need to have a whole lot better of an argument than "giving 220 gear would kill 16 man" because if you aren't raiding for the experience of raiding you are proving why raiding needs to die and never come back in any form ever.

 

Do PvPers whine about gear? Nope, we get ONE set a season and often you don't even need to upgrade from season to season. All we want is more warzones.

Maybe raiders would get more raids if they didn't also try and keep all kinds of exclusivity on gear ranking it would be more likely to happen? There is a reason raids are dying in most MMOs...people clamore for them, run them a few times then want a new one. Devs can do single loot drop bosses in a flashpoint and people will help run friends and newbies through it for months while whining only a third of what raiders whine when they put a raid on farm status.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Oh look a troll has to speak up. Honestly, this just shows that SWTOR is going down the drain. The Legendary achievement shouldn't be that challenging, and you're a fool if you think this attitude is a great way to get new players into the game to make them have bad experience or not learn the mechanics of hard mode flashpoints or OPS or anything because people don't have the decency to have the patience to help the new players out. That's ridiculous. I couldn't have learned OPS or HM flashpoints if I hadn't had someone showing me but I can't help players out if you can't get into HM flashpoints and with little people on the servers as it is and very little activity in guilds it's like what are you suppose to do? Half the times people rage quit on OPS, but I've enjoyed a lot of the PVE content of this game but it's frustrating and ridiculous how difficult it is to do a flashpoint in HM or form an OPS because people don't have the time and patience to teach new people or want to help and just want to leave at the first failed attempt.

 

You dont know a single thing about me, or what I do or do not do in game. Just another short minded, ill tempered troll who accuses others because they dont agree with you. Grow up. If you dont like it, move on.

[Larsenex]

Ah this argument. i posted this same exact argument a couple years ago. I have been running HM for a while and I have simply stopped. The rewards are NOT worth it and they are definitely NOT fun to do (at all).

 

For the poster who claims he has done all the HM Flashpoints as a duo in crap gear, I totally call BS. Absolutely!

 

I challenge ANYONE here to show me a UTUBE video of you in say, 180 gear or even 200 and having a random pug. It 'could be done' You could be carried <and most have>, but pull up BH n blue gear. Lets see that video!

 

I would love to see that person show me the video of him and his buddy doing Blood hunt and show the gear they are in just after they enter the flashpoint.

 

I can tank, I can DPS and I can heal. I am <loathe> to go back into the cue for HM anymore. Why? Because the rewards are simply not equal to the amount of frustration I would get attempting to complete one. Plain and simple.

The responses are right on. Why bother with HM when I can cue up for brain dead SM Ops and get my coms and some gear and continue about my game.

 

The idea that 220 gear should drop off the end boss <always> and ultimate coms is a good start. That would get me to put up with the cue but nothing less than that. Its simply not ...worth..the frustration.

[Sorwen]

Something I find hilarious about some of these things. People will say that they love things like "Hard" modes or PvP for the challenge and yet when you finally get down to their ultimate goal it is generally not about the challenge, but what reward they can get over others.

 

If the challenge isn't worth it then don't do it.

[Khevar]

Wow! So because the player base doesn't want to do HM flashpoints people have to miss out for something they could achieve if people queued. Stop trolling if you're not going to read the full problem and just focus on what you want. Players like you disgust me. You don't want to see the issue as an issue and even before the Dark Vs. Light Event this was an issue.

Trolling? Disgust? What the heck?

 

Are you confusing me with someone else?

[peter_plankskull]

Something I find hilarious about some of these things. People will say that they love things like "Hard" modes or PvP for the challenge and yet when you finally get down to their ultimate goal it is generally not about the challenge, but what reward they can get over others.

 

If the challenge isn't worth it then don't do it.

 

No... we like challenge, but we like to see our work come into fruition, to have meaning, to have a purpose, to feel satisfied with all the hard work we have done. When I finished metal gear solid 4 with no alerts, kills, deaths, and in two hours, I got the big boss symbol, along with my favorite song of all time to play in the Ipod, and as this is a PS3 exclusive, I can't have YouTube open in the background. I got something to show and feel rewarded from doing the hardest challenge in the game, something to pride around with, to show im a true MGS player.

 

If you win a event, don't you expect some kind of ... reward... a medal... perhaps recognition? something? Yeah, we all enjoy the challenge of winning the event, or doing the hard mode flashpoint, but we want something to show for it as well. Besides... not like theirs really anything else for me to do anyway... no way im touching this god awful PVP... perhaps GSF... which hasn't gotten a update since launch? Maybe if the queues weren't longer than a DPS looking for hard mode flashpoints and didn't revolve around massive grinding and favoring veterans not only with skill and familiarity, which im fine with, but all these passive bs upgrades.

Edited August 17, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[LyraineAlei]

No... we like challenge, but we like to see our work come into fruition, to have meaning, to have a purpose, to feel satisfied with all the hard work we have done. When I finished metal gear solid 4 with no alerts, kills, deaths, and in two hours, I got the big boss symbol, along with my favorite song of all time to play in the Ipod, and as this is a PS3 exclusive, I can't have YouTube open in the background. I got something to show and feel rewarded from doing the hardest challenge in the game, something to pride around with, to show im a true MGS player.

 

If you win a event, don't you expect some kind of ... reward... a medal... perhaps recognition? something? Yeah, we all enjoy the challenge of winning the event, or doing the hard mode flashpoint, but we want something to show for it as well. Besides... not like theirs really anything else for me to do anyway... no way im touching this god awful PVP... perhaps GSF... which hasn't gotten a update since launch? Maybe if the queues weren't longer than a DPS looking for hard mode flashpoints and didn't revolve around massive grinding and favoring veterans not only with skill and familiarity, which im fine with, but all these passive bs upgrades.

 

But you get a GIANT Stronghold Poster if you complete an HM fighting every boss X number of times (usually ten or fifteen)! Isn't that a reward? I jest, I jest. The posters aren't really worth it to me. I have bugged giant Maelstrom HM poster (only ran the HM once pre-4.0, sent in a ticket about the poster because it was given claiming I had fought every boss ten times in HM, they closed it without comment), and I don't care anymore about having it up than I do the smaller ones for Story Modes (sorry, Solo Modes, I think, now).

 

HMs don't even seem like they have much payout at all when I look through them. Better and faster ways elsewhere, and I almost never see anyone shouting for LFG/LFM HM [FP name] on Fleet, or anywhere.

[peter_plankskull]

But you get a GIANT Stronghold Poster if you complete an HM fighting every boss X number of times (usually ten or fifteen)! Isn't that a reward? I jest, I jest. The posters aren't really worth it to me. I have bugged giant Maelstrom HM poster (only ran the HM once pre-4.0, sent in a ticket about the poster because it was given claiming I had fought every boss ten times in HM, they closed it without comment), and I don't care anymore about having it up than I do the smaller ones for Story Modes (sorry, Solo Modes, I think, now).

 

HMs don't even seem like they have much payout at all when I look through them. Better and faster ways elsewhere, and I almost never see anyone shouting for LFG/LFM HM [FP name] on Fleet, or anywhere.

 

Most of the people who do happen to run HM FPs anymore have their own little niche group, or general group of people to call from anymore. Yeah theirs a few handful of full on puggers... but they rely mostly on the GF system... so that may be why theirs no real LFG anymore. Honestly... I kind of like the posters... sort of a nice trophy to remember running the boss and a war prize... and it helps fill up the strongholds .

[Andryah]

Most of the people who do happen to run HM FPs anymore have their own little niche group, or general group of people to call from anymore. Yeah theirs a few handful of full on puggers... but they rely mostly on the GF system... so that may be why theirs no real LFG anymore.

 

Which, IMO, is the way it should be.

 

Random PuGs create so much tension in game and in the forums.... for all manner of reasons on both extremes and through the middle ground.

 

Rewards really are less important when playing with friends and guild mates IMO. They are the frosting rather than the cake. Different people like different frosting on their cake as well.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Andryah

[LyraineAlei]

Most of the people who do happen to run HM FPs anymore have their own little niche group, or general group of people to call from anymore. Yeah theirs a few handful of full on puggers... but they rely mostly on the GF system... so that may be why theirs no real LFG anymore. Honestly... I kind of like the posters... sort of a nice trophy to remember running the boss and a war prize... and it helps fill up the strongholds .

 

True, they do fill up the walls. *throws more Junker Lamps* I was also speaking in jest about the posters, but once you've gotten them, there's nothing left to really go for Decorations-wise.

 

And I can see why the chat calls for LFG HM FPs have dropped, now that you said that.

[peter_plankskull]

Haven't heard any news of group content... let alone hard mode flashpoints... would be nice if they did something to them in KOTET. Watch the new expansion release with level 70 and HM FPs still drop 216 gear...

[LyraineAlei]

Haven't heard any news of group content... let alone hard mode flashpoints... would be nice if they did something to them in KOTET. Watch the new expansion release with level 70 and HM FPs still drop 216 gear...

 

I would almost think that if there were going to be anything to group content, there would be some tease about it.

 

"Defeat powerful new enemies with your friends" or something. It's vague and generic, could mean group content, could just mean you can go through KotET with your friends without having to through every instance multiple times (basically, like Planet Quests with buddies versus SoR and Beyond Quests that are only for the instance owner). Vague and stuff, but might be enough to quell and lure back some of the old grouping people or something.