is this game no longer Canon?

[DronoPuddinpie]

I was reading online hat KOTOR is no longer Canon and that by proxy this game is no longer "official" as well

[Asheris]

Was any SW game actually canon? Doubt it

[Audoucet]

I was reading online hat KOTOR is no longer Canon and that by proxy this game is no longer "official" as well

 

Yes. It is now "Legends", which means that maybe Disney will take something from it, or not. two examples, they took Korriban, but they renamed it as Morriban.they decided that Dark Side ghosts do NOT exist, but you can see fake ones made by technology on Morriban.

 

They used KOTOR2's Malachor. It is now a very ancient Sith Temple, with a powerful weapon of mass destruction.

[ZanyaCross]

Yes. It is now "Legends", which means that maybe Disney will take something from it, or not. two examples, they took Korriban, but they renamed it as Morriban.they decided that Dark Side ghosts do NOT exist, but you can see fake ones made by technology on Morriban.

 

They used KOTOR2's Malachor. It is now a very ancient Sith Temple, with a powerful weapon of mass destruction.

 

They also made references in Clone Wars and Rebels. Pre Vizla pulls out a darksaber, telling Obi-Wan how his ancestor took it as a souvenir from a Jedi temple. This is almost certainly a nod to Shae Vizla and the sacking of Coruscant.

[Audoucet]

They also made references in Clone Wars and Rebels. Pre Vizla pulls out a darksaber, telling Obi-Wan how his ancestor took it as a souvenir from a Jedi temple. This is almost certainly a nod to Shae Vizla and the sacking of Coruscant.

 

I was actually talking about these shows indeed.

[maxetius]

Yes. It is now "Legends", which means that maybe Disney will take something from it, or not. two examples, they took Korriban, but they renamed it as Morriban.they decided that Dark Side ghosts do NOT exist, but you can see fake ones made by technology on Morriban.

 

They used KOTOR2's Malachor. It is now a very ancient Sith Temple, with a powerful weapon of mass destruction.

 

fyi Disney did not rename Korriban, that was George Lucas who felt it was too similar to Coruscant.. Damage control immediately had to release a statement saying 'Korriban was known by many names' to cover for the fact that Lucas literally changed the name out of nowhere, it having been called Korriban since it's inception in like 1992.

 

However, you are correct that Disney DID use KOTOR2's Malachor. I daresay while they tossed out much of the post-ROTJ EU in order to make a blank slate for their movies, they will show the rest of the EU overall more respect than GL ever did due to their focus on worldbuilding; GL was known to be incredibly fickle and often forced major changes during the development, regardless of the current state of the EU, on a personal whim.

[Yermog]

The game has never been canon, even from the start.

[Rhyltran]

fyi Disney did not rename Korriban, that was George Lucas who felt it was too similar to Coruscant.. Damage control immediately had to release a statement saying 'Korriban was known by many names' to cover for the fact that Lucas literally changed the name out of nowhere, it having been called Korriban since it's inception in like 1992.

 

However, you are correct that Disney DID use KOTOR2's Malachor. I daresay while they tossed out much of the post-ROTJ EU in order to make a blank slate for their movies, they will show the rest of the EU overall more respect than GL ever did due to their focus on worldbuilding; GL was known to be incredibly fickle and often forced major changes during the development, regardless of the current state of the EU, on a personal whim.

 

Filoni still admitted that he has no plans nor should anyone expect KOTOR or SWTOR to be Canonized. That he likes to take nostalgic names and places but not the events/stories surrounding them. Plus in Disney Canon this entire game doesn't work. Dark Side Force Ghosts don't exist.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Rhyltran

[Darth_Advent]

The buyout really was an excellent opportunity to evolve beyond its prior limitations, and the fact that The Force Awakens is an original story that disregards George Lucas' blueprints initially gave me hope. There's still an absurd desire among some of the lore developers, though, to honor the fat man's original intent.

[MikeCobalt]

Star Wars is Star Wars, its what Lucas started or its not That genre. This game isn't Canon. Its *Like Star Wars and in over 3 millennia a lot can happen that's true. This game is similar and *Could be Shoe Horned in kinda, maybe, if some things were different. Change anything enough, its not the same (No matter how much money was paid for a Name).

[FlameYOL]

It used to be C-Canon,which was part of the overall star wars continuity,but due to the reboot of 2014 it is labelled legends now,which is Disney's say of saying fan fiction,personally idc what's canon and what's not,enjoy the game,enjoy EU,Disney EU,whatever,this stupid fandom war has dragged on for too long...

[ZanyaCross]

Dark Side Force Ghosts don't exist.

 

Which makes no sense, since in almost every culture ghosts are regarded as the spirits of people who can't or won't move on because they're filled with regret, sadness, or anger. You'd think that Jedi should be the ones who move on and every sith that dies is a Japanese horror movie in the making.

[Rhyltran]

Which makes no sense, since in almost every culture ghosts are regarded as the spirits of people who can't or won't move on because they're filled with regret, sadness, or anger. You'd think that Jedi should be the ones who move on and every sith that dies is a Japanese horror movie in the making.

 

Yeah, but in the new canon it is what it is.

[MadDutchman]

The whole "no such thing as dark force ghosts" is something that could be retconned easily enough. Considering until Yoda actually met Qui-gon on Dagobah, he didn't believe ANY force ghosts existed, so not exactly an expert on the subject.

 

And Yoda's interaction with Bane was pretty much the only indication about dark side force ghosts not existing (that I know of)

 

 

That being said, I doubt they'll ever canonize KOTOR/SWTOR. In order to do so they'd have to create a canon version of all the stories, and that's not something they are likely to do anytime soon.

[Deshiel]

Right now anyone can go and canonise Valkorion with a single mention in a book haha

[MikeCobalt]

I would really like some kind mention in one of the Canon stories. Even if just a mention of a name, place or an event under somebody's breath. That would really energize this game for me and I'm sure a lot of other people too. I guess in over three thousand years anything *Can.. happen, Kinda. One thing I thought not long ago about the ending of this story what if after its all finished and everybody is going back home (With all their companions). There is a short cut scene of a figure removing a cassette (I don't know what the call them in SW) and later filing that away in the Jedi hall of records (Library) and talking to them self "Now that was something that should be kept in the galactic records for sure. It would really be good to think our character's in the Galactic library.

[Limariko]

From my understanding was the majority of the EU was now not-canon (the novels, the comics..etc..), but this game was considered a grey area because the setting was so far back and that the game was still an active property. It's essentially in canon limbo until something new's set in the era to call for an official statement.

[Swedguy]

Depends on your definition of canon. Back before Disney axed the EU, SWTOR was as canon as everything else that wasn't labeled "Infinities". SWTOR is not canon to Disney Wars, but still very much a part of the original EU.

 

SWTOR is not canon to Disney Wars, but it is canon to the EU.

 

Was any SW game actually canon? Doubt it

Everything was canon back in the day. The games just weren't G-Canon, which was only the 6 films. The games were however C-Canon, meaning it was official canon just like the 6 films, all comics and novels.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Swedguy

[Masterdarkness]

The buyout really was an excellent opportunity to evolve beyond its prior limitations, and the fact that The Force Awakens is an original story that disregards George Lucas' blueprints initially gave me hope. There's still an absurd desire among some of the lore developers, though, to honor the fat man's original intent.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA have you never seen ep 4 or are you just a plant by Disney to confuse the younglings of this universe?

[Swedguy]

The buyout really was an excellent opportunity to evolve beyond its prior limitations, and the fact that The Force Awakens is an original story that disregards George Lucas' blueprints initially gave me hope. There's still an absurd desire among some of the lore developers, though, to honor the fat man's original intent.

Define "limitations." If you look at the EU timeline, they could have fit quite a bit of story in a couple of empty gaps.

[Darth_Advent]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA have you never seen ep 4 or are you just a plant by Disney to confuse the younglings of this universe?

 

George Lucas' original plans for episode VII, which were about a group of pre-teens, was not accepted by Disney. Please understand what you're criticizing before mocking correct statements.

 

Define "limitations." If you look at the EU timeline, they could have fit quite a bit of story in a couple of empty gaps.

 

Big "G" had all kinds of neurotic little hangups about the canon that didn't soften into very late in his tenure as lord and master of all things Star Wars. A lot of the interesting stuff we got in the EU only passed because he didn't personally pay a whole lot of attention to it even if a stamp of approval implied he did, and it was retconned away if he got wind of it. Lightsaber resistant alloys, lightsaber blade colors, blanket bans on explaining away the mystery of certain features with lore development (midichlorians notwithstanding, apparently), Sith maintaining identity in the Force after physical death, quotas on which species could fulfill which roles, and Mandalorian history being a few.

 

He would waffle, though. Lucas initially insisted that the Force be portrayed in simplistic black and white moral terms with the Dark Side being an unnecessary corruption until he had a sudden change of ideals while making The Clone Wars Mortis Arc and stated in director commentary that the Force works like yin and yang with both light and dark being essential, thus in one single move destroying and overruling the premise of innumerable arguments in fan forums such as this one.

 

I wanted more changes like that after the Disney buyout, but instead they seem rather keen on keeping the dumb stuff like the Galactic Empire being a mostly human supremacist slave state (which was spun into the EU by Timothy Zahn generously extrapolating from Chewbacca being insulted in ESB) while removing the lore limitations that made sense like their allowing Force-insensitive characters to use lightsabers without drawbacks.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Darth_Advent

[TalonVII]

Was any SW game actually canon? Doubt it

 

The game Star Wars "Clone Commando" was considered canon. The story line based on it, not so much though I personally loved it.

[Limariko]

I think Darth_Advent brings up some really good points and I'd like to add that what tends to be forgotten especially with how huge the varying fandoms have become is that when Star Wars first started, we really had no idea of the potential volume and complexity fandom would grow into. Star Wars mania was absolutely insane back in the day and if I felt like braving the back of my closet, I probably could dig up some of the old Official Star Wars Club fan mags where they printed things like Obi-Wan really being clone soldier OB-1 from the Clone Wars. If something could have the Star Wars name slapped onto it, it sold like mad because we all were so voracious to know more about the Star Wars universe. We'd even jump on stuff with a similar name because it was close enough for us. Again, if I felt like braving the back of my closet, I still have an art print that today would invoke the wrath of lawyers for being a copyright infringement of ships that look like X-wings and TIEs doing the trench run titled "Space War".

 

We really didn't think of meshing everything with the Star Wars label into a cohesive mass so as fandom grew we hit the speedbumps of how does everything fit into the timeline and conflicting statements regarding events. Just as we were then and still are, we're voracious to know more about the Star Wars setting and this does make for the sorts of lively debate and discussion that fuel huge forums threads. I remember when I first heard that Star Wars canon was broken into degrees of canon and thinking "This is not a good sign" even though I understood it as a way to attempt to deal with the sheer volume of material published over the decades. It's why I feel it was inevitable for there to be an official motion to have to tackle the canon mess with a figurative machete just because it was so huge and rather intimidating for new fans and authors licensed to write EU novels.

 

If I'm remembering rightly, the official mandate was that the EU of recent era Star Wars that wasn't the recent Clone Wars show was no longer canon, but this didn't mean that everything was going to be forever gone, that there was still the very viable chance of things that were ruled non-canon being brought back into the canon. In regards to the TOR material, because it's from so far back in the timeline it's just loosely blanket covered compared to events from the Clone Wars on until something official like a movie comes out set in the era and we'll get a more definite ruling made.

 

With all that said, I have to ask, does it really matter in the end as to what's canon or not? As long as you enjoy it and it makes sense to you, who cares whether some voice upon high proclaims it canon or not. Case in point, I'm one of those who looks at the events of TOR and sees the Old Republic eventually merging with the Empire and that eventually becomes the later Republic we see around the time of the Clone Wars with my only backing arguments being from what I've studied in actual history with cultural shifts and syncretism and citing how the Imperial accent from the TOR era would eventually become the Corusanti accent later on. It doesn't matter to me if this is considered canon or not, it just works for me and I'm sticking to it.

[Swedguy]

George Lucas' original plans for episode VII, which were about a group of pre-teens, was not accepted by Disney. Please understand what you're criticizing before mocking correct statements.

 

 

 

Big "G" had all kinds of neurotic little hangups about the canon that didn't soften into very late in his tenure as lord and master of all things Star Wars. A lot of the interesting stuff we got in the EU only passed because he didn't personally pay a whole lot of attention to it even if a stamp of approval implied he did, and it was retconned away if he got wind of it. Lightsaber resistant alloys, lightsaber blade colors, blanket bans on explaining away the mystery of certain features with lore development (midichlorians notwithstanding, apparently), Sith maintaining identity in the Force after physical death, quotas on which species could fulfill which roles, and Mandalorian history being a few.

 

He would waffle, though. Lucas initially insisted that the Force be portrayed in simplistic black and white moral terms with the Dark Side being an unnecessary corruption until he had a sudden change of ideals while making The Clone Wars Mortis Arc and stated in director commentary that the Force works like yin and yang with both light and dark being essential, thus in one single move destroying and overruling the premise of innumerable arguments in fan forums such as this one.

 

I wanted more changes like that after the Disney buyout, but instead they seem rather keen on keeping the dumb stuff like the Galactic Empire being a mostly human supremacist slave state (which was spun into the EU by Timothy Zahn generously extrapolating from Chewbacca being insulted in ESB) while removing the lore limitations that made sense like their allowing Force-insensitive characters to use lightsabers without drawbacks.

 

In the movies how many aliens work for the Empire? Zero, outside bounty hunters. How many work for the Rebels? Palpatine built the Empire on a war where almost all the enemy were aliens. He was a human supremist simply because it was a divide and conquer strategy. Zahn didn't invent that, he didn't have too!

And Lucas okayed the use of colored lightsabers in the comics, it was in one of the comic book interviews. He just didn't want them in the movies. Even then he let Samuel L. Jackson have one.

 

We really didn't think of meshing everything with the Star Wars label into a cohesive mass so as fandom grew we hit the speedbumps of how does everything fit into the timeline and conflicting statements regarding events. Just as we were then and still are, we're voracious to know more about the Star Wars setting and this does make for the sorts of lively debate and discussion that fuel huge forums threads. I remember when I first heard that Star Wars canon was broken into degrees of canon and thinking "This is not a good sign" even though I understood it as a way to attempt to deal with the sheer volume of material published over the decades. It's why I feel it was inevitable for there to be an official motion to have to tackle the canon mess with a figurative machete just because it was so huge and rather intimidating for new fans and authors licensed to write EU novels.

 

If I'm remembering rightly, the official mandate was that the EU of recent era Star Wars that wasn't the recent Clone Wars show was no longer canon, but this didn't mean that everything was going to be forever gone, that there was still the very viable chance of things that were ruled non-canon being brought back into the canon. In regards to the TOR material, because it's from so far back in the timeline it's just loosely blanket covered compared to events from the Clone Wars on until something official like a movie comes out set in the era and we'll get a more definite ruling made.

 

With all that said, I have to ask, does it really matter in the end as to what's canon or not? As long as you enjoy it and it makes sense to you, who cares whether some voice upon high proclaims it canon or not. Case in point, I'm one of those who looks at the events of TOR and sees the Old Republic eventually merging with the Empire and that eventually becomes the later Republic we see around the time of the Clone Wars with my only backing arguments being from what I've studied in actual history with cultural shifts and syncretism and citing how the Imperial accent from the TOR era would eventually become the Corusanti accent later on. It doesn't matter to me if this is considered canon or not, it just works for me and I'm sticking to it.

 

Fans didn't have to make sure everything fit, Leland Chee and the Holocron did. The fact that Star Wars had an ongoing timeline is what made it unique. The Canon Heirarchy really isn't that complicated by the way.

 

G-Canon: The 6 films.

S-Canon: Events in video games that aren't fully explained wether or not they're canon (A lot of things in SWTOR)

T-Canon: The Clone Wars TV Show.

C-Canon: Continuity Canon. Everything in here is canon.

N-Canon: Alternate Timelines and spin-offs fit here (Such as the SW characters appearing in Soul Calibur 4 for example)

 

And in about 20 years from now, what will Disney do when their continuity gets "too full"?

Edited June 18, 2016 by Swedguy

[Ashlack]

G-Canon: The 6 films.

S-Canon: Events in video games that aren't fully explained wether or not they're canon (A lot of things in SWTOR)

T-Canon: The Clone Wars TV Show.

C-Canon: Continuity Canon. Everything in here is canon.

N-Canon: Alternate Timelines and spin-offs fit here (Such as the SW characters appearing in Soul Calibur 4 for example)

S-canon never existed. And N-canon also included some modified elements such as Shaak Ti's death in Episode III, replaced by the one in the Force Unleashed Game. SWTOR is completely legend.

 

 

But all that worked for "legend" material (i.e. everything published before 2014 (SWTOR included), at the exception of the 6 films and The Clone Wars TV serie. From now one, every film, novel, comic, video game etc... are supposed to be coherent with eachother and are equally considered canon.

 

Nothing in SWTOR is canon, if not any novel/book/film/etc... refers to it. And it would canonized only what is mentionned. If in Episode VIII, Snoke refers to Darth Revan, it would only mean there was once a sith named Revan, all of is Kotor and SWTOR story won't won't magically become "true".

Edited June 18, 2016 by Ashlack