Renim Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'm currently level 37 on my Vanguard, and I'm finding this class to be absolutely miserable. I enjoyed it all the way up to about 30, but once I hit 35 and playing with other lvl 35 players, I found myself being almost completely helpless in both PvE and PvP. I watched as countless other classes have shined (mostly Assassin/Shadow). At level 37, I thought with my shield specialist talents finally kicking in it would finally feel like I'm a PvP tank... I was wrong... Totally wrong. -It does subpar DPS for PvE. -One Imperial Agent can take me from 100% to 15% within the round of one stun, despite spec'd as a tank. -It doesn't feel like a tank at all in PvP, just a gimped class. -I don't survive long enough to actually help people stay alive. -2 of our most powerful abilities are bugged, whereas our counterparts do not have this issue. I'm about ready to just drop the trooper and pick up a Shadow (which is a shame because I really want to love this class): -More burst damage -Tank abilities -Stealth -More utility -More survivability -More soloability So, all I'm asking is if Vanguards are really worth it to take to level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotall Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I'm currently level 37 on my Vanguard, and I'm finding this class to be absolutely miserable. I enjoyed it all the way up to about 30, but once I hit 35 and playing with other lvl 35 players, I found myself being almost completely helpless in both PvE and PvP. I watched as countless other classes have shined (mostly Assassin/Shadow). At level 37, I thought with my shield specialist talents finally kicking in it would finally feel like I'm a PvP tank... I was wrong... Totally wrong. -It does subpar DPS for PvE. -One Imperial Agent can take me from 100% to 15% within the round of one stun, despite spec'd as a tank. -It doesn't feel like a tank at all in PvP, just a gimped class. -I don't survive long enough to actually help people stay alive. -2 of our most powerful abilities are bugged, whereas our counterparts do not have this issue. I'm about ready to just drop the trooper and pick up a Shadow (which is a shame because I really want to love this class): -More burst damage -Tank abilities -Stealth -More utility -More survivability -More soloability So, all I'm asking is if Vanguards are really worth it to take to level 50. I just hit lvl 40 and VG is far from what I just read. If your gear is lacking I'd start there, but I can say for sure that the VG AC in shield spec with the lvl 40 pvp tanking gear is nothing to scoff at or ignore. Just to drive home my point, Champs are an easy solo with Elara and I've never come out of a warfront with less than 6 medals. The only thing I can think of that would hold you back would gear (like I mentioned), and resource management. Our mechanic is very very punishing if you get into the bottom 2 tiers of regen. With my current gear, shield chance is 34% and absorb is about the same. It's a pretty tough class from what I've experienced so far. Edited December 28, 2011 by Sotall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchesq Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hmmm....I am not having your problems at all. My only problem killing +2 takes FOREVER! ugh. But i never die, it just takes a long time. I dont pvp though. And the reason I dont pvp is becuase I just dont see a tank doing well in pvp except to keep the debuff up. But things are very hard for melee, and a melee without a leap? Ugh..idunno. I think pvp would be very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelongoWoods Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 you are doing it wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I am actually becoming slightly disillusioned with my Vanguard as well and came here to type that but then saw this post. I recently hit 43 (been gone for Christmas) and I am finding my Vanguard tank quickly becoming weaker and weaker each time I level up. My damage continue to be absolutely abysmal and my tanking abilities are starting to not carry me through tougher fights (this is in PVE, PvP I do fairly well). As it is, I am being FORCED to use Elara on everything even though I absolutely hate her as a companion because I cannot hardly stand toe to toe with a group of mobs and not get down to 30% health (Even after hitting Shield and Adrenaline Rush). Meanwhile my friends Commando's damage is sky rocketing (hes Heal spec) and he is soloing the same class quest mobs with ease while I make it through each fight and have to reload for 15 secs after each fight. Vanguard damage needs to be looked at I think... I have the full set of PvP gear btw with a couple pieces of Colicoid...Pretty good gear for a 43... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliapis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 To the OP. Are you sure you playing the same game the rest Shield Specialists do? Vanguard is a blast, superb mobility as soon as you get Storm. Damage is great for a tank and many options to keep targets on you like Storm, Hook, 2x taunts. Loads of AoE, like Sticky grenade, Explosive Surge, Mortar volley, even the odd 3 ammo skill that hits target and does some splash damage ( i forget the name but its a core ability i dont really use). You aint into Trooper mate, and esp into Vanguard, thats the problem. You are misusing the class because you lack the will to use your huge arsenal. Shield Specialist its more than "Shield". Its a freaking WARZONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 To the OP. Are you sure you playing the same game the rest Shield Specialists do? Vanguard is a blast, superb mobility as soon as you get Storm. Damage is great for a tank and many options to keep targets on you like Storm, Hook, 2x taunts. Loads of AoE, like Sticky grenade, Explosive Surge, Mortar volley, even the odd 3 ammo skill that hits target and does some splash damage ( i forget the name but its a core ability i dont really use). You aint into Trooper mate, and esp into Vanguard, thats the problem. You are misusing the class because you lack the will to use your huge arsenal. Shield Specialist its more than "Shield". Its a freaking WARZONE! I would wager a guess your about lvl 20-25 right now and really have no idea what your talking about...Well, you might be 30...and then still have no idea what your talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliapis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Im 35 and i have a pretty good idea what im talking about man. I dont know what you expected from a tank spec but it has all and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vizael Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Im going to have to agree with the people here saying that you either don't really understand the class, your under geared, or your just bad. Im 44 with my VG and i don't even use Elara, i roll with Vik 99% of the time, and i can take down golds pretty easily, with only a quick reload after. Like someone earlier pointed out, our resource is very punishing, if you are going into a fight and spamming all of your abilities until your out of ammo, you are doing it wrong, and if you think our DPS is low, this is more than likely what your doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliapis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Im going to have to agree with the people here saying that you either don't really understand the class, your under geared, or your just bad. Im 44 with my VG and i don't even use Elara, i roll with Vik 99% of the time, and i can take down golds pretty easily, with only a quick reload after. Like someone earlier pointed out, our resource is very punishing, if you are going into a fight and spamming all of your abilities until your out of ammo, you are doing it wrong, and if you think our DPS is low, this is more than likely what your doing. And to also highlight, we are TANK spec. And even as such we are doing great damage! The damage gets lower the higher we get though due to replacing Aim with tank stats like asborb and defence but its well worthing it for whatever situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Im 35 and i have a pretty good idea what im talking about man. I dont know what you expected from a tank spec but it has all and then some. Oh its you! lol - get to 40 first...I liked my Vanguard till about lvl 39-40 and since hitting 40 my excitement for the class has started to go down some... I really didn't start seeing a big issue till I hit Belsavis ... That was where I really started to feel underpowered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I always find it sad when people of a class defend the fact that their class may be underpowered... Its almost like telling the government you don't want an income tax check back because you have enough money already... I will always lobby to have the Vanguard's abilities buffed because I want to see Vanguards on top... Edited December 28, 2011 by Trevalon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ermo Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I will always lobby to have the Vanguard's abilities buffed because I want to see Vanguards on top... On Top of what? Vanguards are incredible, if played correctly. Had a nice fight yesterday with a sith assasin which had first strike (due stealth). After the fight I was standing with still 50% HP and the sith was death... In PvP I see Vanguards in general on top of the medal scores, if they play tank and protect other players (next to participating to the game). If they only go for kills, they can be found at the end. Looks fair for me. For PvE it depends strongly on your play style. If you do attack groups by killing one mob after each other, you will end even with normal mobs at low HP and without ammu. But if you think first, gather a tactic and collect the mobs in a little group (using Sticky Bomb pushback or your Hook) and use your AoE skills, they drop almost instantly and you're running directly for the next fight. I also found myself low HP after some groups of trash mobs. But mostly if I did run into those either without preparation or having some skills on CD. But if prepared right, I do own every mob group in PvE. I even got out of fights with elite mobs without loosing 10% of my health. So please: - Check your equip (see pre posters) - Plan your strategy (Sometimes you gain more time by waiting a CD) - USE your awesome AoE skills - Watch your Ammo (without ammo, you will do no damage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 On Top of what? Vanguards are incredible, if played correctly. Had a nice fight yesterday with a sith assasin which had first strike (due stealth). After the fight I was standing with still 50% HP and the sith was death... In PvP I see Vanguards in general on top of the medal scores, if they play tank and protect other players (next to participating to the game). If they only go for kills, they can be found at the end. Looks fair for me. For PvE it depends strongly on your play style. If you do attack groups by killing one mob after each other, you will end even with normal mobs at low HP and without ammu. But if you think first, gather a tactic and collect the mobs in a little group (using Sticky Bomb pushback or your Hook) and use your AoE skills, they drop almost instantly and you're running directly for the next fight. I also found myself low HP after some groups of trash mobs. But mostly if I did run into those either without preparation or having some skills on CD. But if prepared right, I do own every mob group in PvE. I even got out of fights with elite mobs without loosing 10% of my health. So please: - Check your equip (see pre posters) - Plan your strategy (Sometimes you gain more time by waiting a CD) - USE your awesome AoE skills - Watch your Ammo (without ammo, you will do no damage) /sigh...just sigh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunnd Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 It's ok OP, I can understand the concerns you have. Everyone else just likes to post their 1 vs. many stories where they took out five bads in a warzone and feel like the class is perfectly fine and anyone who says otherwise is a trash player and is "doing it wrong." Vanguard definitely have some issues in the damage and resource management department when they are not being the target of damage, a lot of procs are based off of the fact that we should be getting hit, but this is not always the case in a PvP scene. I feel your pain OP, I'm sure balance changes are in order down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaTBS Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 ^ Let me translate that for you OP. "Hey baddie, I'm also horrible at playing vanguard. Wanna hold hands?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordXalas Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 meh i having no problem with my vanguard and he's shield spec so damage isnt always supposed to be up top. im a tank so im a meatshield and it works wonders in pve and pvp. guess its up to the player. i actually had to reroll from a guardian since their damage is downright nothing atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunnd Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 ^ Let me translate that for you OP. "Hey baddie, I'm also horrible at playing vanguard. Wanna hold hands?" Point proven. Cya kiddo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaTBS Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Point? Wait you mean to tell me you had a point in that vague post? I liked this part a lot of procs are based off of the fact that we should be getting hit, but this is not always the case in a PvP scene. You do not seem to understand the class/spec at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithrar Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Oh its you! lol - get to 40 first...I liked my Vanguard till about lvl 39-40 and since hitting 40 my excitement for the class has started to go down some... I really didn't start seeing a big issue till I hit Belsavis ... That was where I really started to feel underpowered... No issues here on Belsavis. The later planets do get more challenging/throw harder mobs at you; make sure your gear is within 1-2 levels of your class, is all orange w/ blue mods/blue or epic, and that your companion is geared as best they can be. As for the OP: the game gets a bit harder from 30 onwards, which is where a lot of classes (not just Vanguards) complain if they're not geared up/playing at the top of their game. You need to make sure you're interrupting strongs/elites, bunching mobs up for AoE (Harpoon ranged mobs and let the melee ones run to you) and kiting when needed. Edited December 28, 2011 by elithrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunnd Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 You do not seem to understand the class/spec at all. http://www.torhead.com/ability/aKFwUzs http://www.torhead.com/ability/7D5zeMs Both proc on shielding an attack Both are vital to a vanguard's regen and damage output. And since OP was talking about shield specialist, I know exactly how this class works. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 lol, some people - you could tell them that statistically your class is the worst class in the entire game and they would still say: "well I do great so it must be you..." its ignorance at its best... Not that Vanguard's are the weakest class, they airn't, but they are also not the best class either...I guess so far its somewhat subjective, but from everything I have seen, read, crunched, and theory crafted puts Vanguards kinda in the middle of the pack... Our DPS is average at best when specced DPS and we are the middle of the three tanks for end-game tanking... So overall, were average! Hoorah for Mediocrity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjashadowdark Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 meh i having no problem with my vanguard and he's shield spec so damage isnt always supposed to be up top. im a tank so im a meatshield and it works wonders in pve and pvp. guess its up to the player. i actually had to reroll from a guardian since their damage is downright nothing atm. explain this to me i am guardian and i have no problems with damage O_O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithrar Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 lol, some people - you could tell them that statistically your class is the worst class in the entire game and they would still say: "well I do great so it must be you..." its ignorance at its best... Not that Vanguard's are the weakest class, they airn't, but they are also not the best class either...I guess so far its somewhat subjective, but from everything I have seen, read, crunched, and theory crafted puts Vanguards kinda in the middle of the pack... Where are the numbers, then? If "statistically" we're "mediocre", I'd expect you to back that up with some stats. Note that I'm not in favor of either side of the argument. What I am against, however, is players parading their subjective rants as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaTBS Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 a lot of procs are based off of the fact that we should be getting hit, but this is not always the case in a PvP scene. http://www.torhead.com/ability/aKFwUzs http://www.torhead.com/ability/7D5zeMs Both proc on shielding an attack Both are vital to a vanguard's regen and damage output. And since OP was talking about shield specialist, I know exactly how this class works. Try again. >a lot of procs >names two You are not even trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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