The Cartel Market is the slow poison destroying this game

[AlienEyeTX]

I played through the agent and finished it briefly before KOTFE on Bastion, left mostly because the lack of group content I was able to do, those 2 hour queues for a flashpoint got annoying.

 

You're of course free to think its good/bad, but I just simply want to know why, you can't simply just go "its bad because of my opinion" without explaining why. What makes it so horrid, why should I lower my expectations, did the boss fight not feel satisfying?

 

Please don't be offended. It's just my opinion of the story as a whole.

[IanArgent]

Yeah how is it possible that COMMON sense is not common at all?

 

 

 

It's been a while since I did chapter 2 of the knight story so I could not exactly remember what it was said that we done in between chapters 2-3 so I was holding back from replying just out of pure ignorance.

 

Face-heel turn for what had to have been at least several weeks, if not a month or more.

 

The biggest thing I hate about both the Agent and JK storylines in their respective Chapter 2 is the loss of agency via imposition of outside control. To a lesser extent the SI story annoys me due to the rampant idiot-ball-hogging of the PC, but the SI appears to have learned better by Chapter 3. I haven't seen anything egregiously wrong with the BH, but I'm not out of Chapter 1 there. And the SW seems to have no major issues that I can see, other than the storyline is brought to you by Western Union (heavy telegraphing/foreshadowing).

 

Over on the pub side, I mentioned the issue with JK. Consular was my first complete storyline. Other than the mild creepiness of the love story with his apprentice, I don't recall having a lot of facepalming moments there, though it was kinda bog-standard Chosen One/Redeem the Fallen. Smuggler looked OK, but the final LS/DS choice seems inconsequential in hindsight (unless it affects Rishi - I went through with a LS smuggler). Trooper's story start seems weak, but ignoring the implausibility of the Chapter 1 premise, it went OK otherwise.

 

BW did "low key" well enough with the Smuggler and Trooper storylines, and completely covered the bed with bantha byproduct when they tried "Epic!" with the JK. Would have preferred something along the level of the Smuggler/Trooper rather than trying to top the JK storyline.

[peter_plankskull]

Please don't be offended. It's just my opinion of the story as a whole.

 

I'm not offended by any means, I just want to hear WHY you think its bad. Say its bad all you want, but at least back it up with reasoning.

[IanArgent]

I'm not offended by any means, I just want to hear WHY you think its bad. Say its bad all you want, but at least back it up with reasoning.

 

That's a fair cop. Which is why I posted my extremely short response

[Max_Killjoy]

The biggest thing I hate about both the Agent and JK storylines in their respective Chapter 2 is the loss of agency via imposition of outside control. To a lesser extent the SI story annoys me due to the rampant idiot-ball-hogging of the PC, but the SI appears to have learned better by Chapter 3. I haven't seen anything egregiously wrong with the BH, but I'm not out of Chapter 1 there.

 

The loss of player agency was a giant letdown in both stories for me as well.

 

The SI is thrown into a tank full of sharks (with lasers on their heads) and survives despite being largely ignorant of all the nuances of what's going on at first... it gets aggravatingly idiot-ball a couple of times, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

[AlienEyeTX]

I'm not offended by any means, I just want to hear WHY you think its bad. Say its bad all you want, but at least back it up with reasoning.

 

Without remembering all the details, I can simply state that it was unoriginal, unsurprising, and unengaging. There was only one decent companion (story-wise). Temple.

 

I seem to remember thinking the end of the story was ok. But chapters 1 & 2 were so lackluster that I was just trying to get it over with by that point.

 

In the end, just not my cup of tea.

[peter_plankskull]

The SI is thrown into a tank full of sharks (with lasers on their heads)

 

...Did the sharks also swim in lava with fire breathing mouths and have spikes coming from the walls enclosing the moment he enters?

[IanArgent]

The loss of player agency was a giant letdown in both stories for me as well.

 

The SI is thrown into a tank full of sharks (with lasers on their heads) and survives despite being largely ignorant of all the nuances of what's going on at first... it gets aggravatingly idiot-ball a couple of times, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

 

For all that the idiot-ball-handling "annoyed me," the SI doesn't know better going in the first time, and the second time doesn't have much of a choice - the SI's decisions flow from some deliberately bad information fed them. And they go out and hunt down the Deus Ex Machinae needed to correct for their terrible errors in the first two chapters. It helps for me that I'm playing a Cathar SI as a though they're the stereotypical amoral leap before you look housecat given sapience, opposable thumbs, a lightsaber, and the power of the Dark Side.

 

And while the Karagga is stupid, at least it's lorefully stupid; and everybody in-game knows this, they just wouldn't be Sith if they didn't put their backstabbing games ahead of anything else including the success of the Empire as a whole. (The SW storyline goes the same way to a certain extent; and that's OK).

[ikinai]

...Did the sharks also swim in lava with fire breathing mouths and have spikes coming from the walls enclosing the moment he enters?

 

The walls only close in when you take the mask from your dead ancestor. Then, not only did the walls close in with giant shoulder pad spikes embedded in them, but a giant rolling droid chased you through the collapsing tunnels, full of firebreathing, lava swimming, laserheaded sharks, that can also fly.

[Max_Killjoy]

For all that the idiot-ball-handling "annoyed me," the SI doesn't know better going in the first time, and the second time doesn't have much of a choice - the SI's decisions flow from some deliberately bad information fed them. And they go out and hunt down the Deus Ex Machinae needed to correct for their terrible errors in the first two chapters. It helps for me that I'm playing a Cathar SI as a though they're the stereotypical amoral leap before you look housecat given sapience, opposable thumbs, a lightsaber, and the power of the Dark Side.

 

And while the Karagga is stupid, at least it's lorefully stupid; and everybody in-game knows this, they just wouldn't be Sith if they didn't put their backstabbing games ahead of anything else including the success of the Empire as a whole. (The SW storyline goes the same way to a certain extent; and that's OK).

 

I think one of the reasons many of the Sith lords and military commanders are...

 

 

 

...so willing to turn on Thanaton is because they all realize what a gigantic hidebound fool he's being in turning the keystone theatre of the war into the stage for his personal vendetta and petty traditionalism.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[IanArgent]

I think one of the reasons many of the Sith lords and military commanders are...

 

 

 

...so willing to turn on Thanaton is because they all realize what a gigantic hidebound fool he's being in turning the keystone theatre of the war into the stage for his personal vendetta and petty traditionalism.

 

 

 

Will no-one rid us of this troublesome Darth? Oh, you will? How about that! Everyone, this Inquisitor is stupid ^H^H^H^H^H^H courageous enough to take out the old fool. Right this way, milord.

 

[AlrikFassbauer]

When I was new to SWTOR, I thought I would get a Consular story showing me the mystical inner core of the Jedi "religion" ... full with teachings about Jedi philosophy and how one has to act according to Jedi philosophy - a bit like in the Ultima games, perhaps ...

 

But I was immediately thrown into war. Nothing mystical, no pghilosophy about the Force, nothing. Someone put it like this : "... fighting against B-Movie monsters ..."

 

I had never ever, not even in my weirdest dreams, expect my Consular to battle some "B-Movie monsters".

When I visited Korriban for the very first tiome years later, the difference was SO MUCH striking ! : THIS was what I had expected Tython to be ! Digs about long lost forgotten Jedi lore ! Not some constant fight against some sort of species called "the Fleshraiders" ! That would have been far more fitting for the Sith side !

Edited June 6, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[DarthMaulUK]

As many have pointed out - the Cartel Market saved this game. But. That was 3 years ago and clearly the changes to the packs and the amount of crap you get in them are less attractive to players. Are these packs really worth £20? The fact there's hardly any on the TRE GTN proves that even those whales aren't buying them any more.

 

A rare item should be something you EARN and it should not be rare because its found in a Cartel Pack - and that, is sucking what little life there is, out of the game.

[peter_plankskull]

As many have pointed out - the Cartel Market saved this game. But. That was 3 years ago and clearly the changes to the packs and the amount of crap you get in them are less attractive to players. Are these packs really worth £20? The fact there's hardly any on the TRE GTN proves that even those whales aren't buying them any more.

 

A rare item should be something you EARN and it should not be rare because its found in a Cartel Pack - and that, is sucking what little life there is, out of the game.

 

Ill admit I to miss the games without a cash shop, were you actually earned those cool looking items or cosmetics, were being rich actually meant time dedicated to the game, not how much cash you shelled out to obtain these. Ill admit the endless RNG luck grinding was annoying, but buying your way is FAR worse imo.

[Knorlac]

As many have pointed out - the Cartel Market saved this game. But. That was 3 years ago and clearly the changes to the packs and the amount of crap you get in them are less attractive to players. Are these packs really worth £20? The fact there's hardly any on the TRE GTN proves that even those whales aren't buying them any more.

 

A rare item should be something you EARN and it should not be rare because its found in a Cartel Pack - and that, is sucking what little life there is, out of the game.

 

I'm not sure about the packs. Right now it seems to me that the demand is just so huge that the ones on the GTN disappear very quickly. I posted one for 49mil last evening (on TRE) and someone snatched it up almost instantly.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Knorlac

[Andryah]

As many have pointed out - the Cartel Market saved this game. But. That was 3 years ago and clearly the changes to the packs and the amount of crap you get in them are less attractive to players. Are these packs really worth £20? The fact there's hardly any on the TRE GTN proves that even those whales aren't buying them any more.

 

Given the obvious proliferation of pack items on the GTN each pack cycle.. I think it is safe to assume that for a lot of players... yes.. packs are worth the CCs (which by the way are not all purchased). And the reason you don't see packs or hypercrates lingerling on GTNs... is because they get snapped up almost immediately.

 

You don't have to like it, and you certainly don't have to participate in buying packs with CCs (I don't), but you cannot deny their popularity with the wider player base.

 

A rare item should be something you EARN and it should not be rare because its found in a Cartel Pack - and that, is sucking what little life there is, out of the game.

 

Many still are.. as they can only be farmed from within the game. and.. the same evil /RNG is at play there, as well as in may cases group competition for a super rare drop.

 

Personally, I'm fine with some highly desirable cosmetic items being in Packs. Any given pack release generally has a super rare weapon or armor or mount that drives sales.... which in this day and age of MMOs.. is fine IMO. The fact that any player can freely trade/sell said items to other players is what makes it acceptable in my view... as you do not have to actually pay real money for CCs to go up against /RNG.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Andryah

[Thoronmir]

I'm not sure about the packs. Right now it seems to me that the demand is just so huge that the ones on the GTN disappear very quickly. I posted one for 49mil last evening (on TRE) and someone snatched it up almost instantly.

The entire phenomenon surrounding the popularity of packs has always eluded me. There just seems to be this "unholy trinity" at work: Developers willing to create packs, players willing to spend CC to acquire packs from the CM, and players willing to spend credits to acquire packs (or their contents) from the GTN. So, it's not as if anyone can cast all the blame on EA/BW. Remove either of the other two legs from that tripod of intemperance and the entire construct collapses.

[IanArgent]

Earned, like the Desler Explorer? Earned like the Rishi Datacrons?

 

Those two in particular annoy the everliving @#$% out of me, because they're so obviously grindfests for the sake of grindfest.

[Knorlac]

Desler Explorer?

 

I tried to forget about sitting there for hours with a stop watch beside me...now thanks to you it's all coming back..

[Andryah]

Earned, like the Desler Explorer? Earned like the Rishi Datacrons?

 

Those two in particular annoy the everliving @#$% out of me, because they're so obviously grindfests for the sake of grindfest.

 

Yeah.. people seem to forget the hamster wheel they had to work for the old school classic super rare drops in older MMO design.

[tharbison]

While I understand the scorn for Cartel Market allowing people to buy shinies, I also think it's a nice balance for people who wouldn't otherwise have time to grind missions the chance to buy them. Not everyone has hours on end to commit to gameplay.

 

That being said, I think there should also be 'epic' items for each class that would be obtainable only by completing an epic storyline or mission. There is some satisfaction from 'earning' your rewards.

[DarthMaulUK]

Given the obvious proliferation of pack items on the GTN each pack cycle.. I think it is safe to assume that for a lot of players... yes.. packs are worth the CCs (which by the way are not all purchased). And the reason you don't see packs or hypercrates lingerling on GTNs... is because they get snapped up almost immediately.

 

You don't have to like it, and you certainly don't have to participate in buying packs with CCs (I don't), but you cannot deny their popularity with the wider player base.

 

 

 

Many still are.. as they can only be farmed from within the game. and.. the same evil /RNG is at play there, as well as in may cases group competition for a super rare drop.

 

Personally, I'm fine with some highly desirable cosmetic items being in Packs. Any given pack release generally has a super rare weapon or armor or mount that drives sales.... which in this day and age of MMOs.. is fine IMO. The fact that any player can freely trade/sell said items to other players is what makes it acceptable in my view... as you do not have to actually pay real money for CCs to go up against /RNG.

It has nothing to do with the packs being 'popular'. Once the cool timer expires, you tend to see 10-20 packs listed all within a few credits of each other. Now you hardly see 1. Therefore only 1 or 2 packs are posted and they may be purchased. 1 or 2 is a far cry from the 10-20 listed a year ago.

 

The whole 'you don't have you buy' is kinda boring now and I remember you being Biowares fan boy. Glad to still see you are posting nonsense. I used to buy packs with credits because the packs over the past 12 months simply do not represent good value.

 

And yes, its great to have rare items in packs but not when they are the ONLY rare items in the game. Players pay a subscription and the last time I checked, only tacky reskinned walkers were offered as 'rare' awards. That is not how MMOs work. A rare item is something you work for, spend ages trying to achieve it, that's where its value comes from. Not because someone hasn't either got the £20/50 million credits to spend opening packs or due to the poor drop rate in those packs. Stop kissing their backside!

[IanArgent]

A rare item is something you work for, spend ages trying to achieve it, that's where its value comes from.

 

Did they remove the Wings of the Architect when I wasn't looking? The achievements for completion of content? HSF drop some pretty nifty decos that aren't available anywhere else, not to mention the armor set pieces for first-time completion of each HSF. Completion of TEC gets you stuff unavailable anywhere else for that matter.

[Andryah]

It has nothing to do with the packs being 'popular'. Once the cool timer expires, you tend to see 10-20 packs listed all within a few credits of each other. Now you hardly see 1. Therefore only 1 or 2 packs are posted and they may be purchased. 1 or 2 is a far cry from the 10-20 listed a year ago.

 

The whole 'you don't have you buy' is kinda boring now and I remember you being Biowares fan boy. Glad to still see you are posting nonsense. I used to buy packs with credits because the packs over the past 12 months simply do not represent good value.

LOL... such irony.

 

I see you tipped your hand though... you are pissed because everyone else bought them off the GTN before you. Your real issue is people with credits getting there before you. You know what some people do.. who are in guilds or have friends.. they pay them credits to turn their CCs around and buy a hypercrate or two for them. You must not have any friends in game I guess. By the way.. while you were gone, player habits changed some.. they are more prone to sell a whole hypercrate rather then individual crates now.

 

Keep on keeping on with your nonsense. For several pack releases now... they in fact appear to be selling out as fast as they are listed on GTNs. But don't take my word for it... go back and read Korlacs post on this matter above. Probably because of those silly sabers that are super rare yet craved by some. Even the chance cubes seem to be holding up well and selling a premium prices.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Did they remove the Wings of the Architect when I wasn't looking? The achievements for completion of content? HSF drop some pretty nifty decos that aren't available anywhere else, not to mention the armor set pieces for first-time completion of each HSF. Completion of TEC gets you stuff unavailable anywhere else for that matter.

 

Warning: introduce him to facts at your own peril.