Alignment doesn't make sense, BioLucas

[Lormif]

there is no benefit to doing so. whatever point you were trying to make is completely moot.

 

you're in the middle of the city. on the east side, there is pizza. on the west side there is burgers.

 

there is no point in standing in the middle of the city taking steps east, then backtracking west etc etc. that is this game.

 

furthermore there is no point in running all the way to the burger place placing an order, not getting the food, and then running all the way back to the pizza place, just smelling the pizza, then running back to the middle....

 

which is what you're suggesting people "want to do"

 

You are arguing in circles. Neutral should not get light side or dark side gear.. If you are at 0 cumulative points you should not get both. If they introduce neutral stuff, that is all you should get.

[Styxx]

there is no benefit to doing so. whatever point you were trying to make is completely moot.

 

you're in the middle of the city. on the east side, there is pizza. on the west side there is burgers.

 

there is no point in standing in the middle of the city taking steps east, then backtracking west etc etc. that is this game.

 

furthermore there is no point in running all the way to the burger place placing an order, not getting the food, and then running all the way back to the pizza place, just smelling the pizza, then running back to the middle....

 

which is what you're suggesting people "want to do"

 

Here`s the one thing, though. I LOVE Pizza, but I can`t stand burgers. I will ALWAYS choose to eat pizza over burgers... thus I will NEVER sit in the middle.

 

If I would suddenly decide to eat burgers, instead, I would have to convince my friends that I have really moved over from Pizza to burgers

 

So. to translate: Even in your example... I need to lose points in "Pizza", before I score in "Burger" .. which the game calls "allignment"?

[WarTornPanda]

There is a 10,000 point cap. That's what makes the system faulty.

[CharagonIGN]

You are arguing in circles. Neutral should not get light side or dark side gear.. If you are at 0 cumulative points you should not get both. If they introduce neutral stuff, that is all you should get.

 

That's what they need to !@#$ing introduce!

[wikimon]

Here`s the one thing, though. I LOVE Pizza, but I can`t stand burgers. I will ALWAYS choose to eat pizza over burgers... thus I will NEVER sit in the middle.

 

If I would suddenly decide to eat burgers, instead, I would have to convince my friends that I have really moved over from Pizza to burgers

 

So. to translate: Even in your example... I need to lose points in "Pizza", before I score in "Burger" .. which the game calls "allignment"?

 

no in this game you never get to eat either of them. unless there's a way to UN-EAT all the pizza you've ever eaten in order to get to travel back to burger...

 

(it's not meant to be an apt analogy)

[Styxx]

no in this game you never get to eat either of them. unless there's a way to UN-EAT all the pizza you've ever eaten in order to get to travel back to burger...

 

(it's not meant to be an apt analogy)

 

Wrong. If I eat ONLY Pizza or Burgers right from the start.. I don`t have to worry ... I qualify for middle AND for the best Pizza or Burger. Never for both.. which I shouldn`t anyway.

[wikimon]

You are saying if you are neutral you should get both, I stated, in what you just quoted, you should get NEITHER.... NEITHER.....NEITHER

 

no i was saying if i am scoring POINTS i need to get SOMETHING for them.

 

light or dark i don't give a rats ***. if i am investing time into the game, i should get rewarded.

 

that is ALL i have said from the beginning. you're the one nit picking and clinging to your dark and light rewards stingily as if they're some kind of accomplishment

 

YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO GET THEM. QUIT ACTING SUPERIOR.

 

that is all

[Bossalinie]

no i was saying if i am scoring POINTS i need to get SOMETHING for them.

 

light or dark i don't give a rats ***. if i am investing time into the game, i should get rewarded.

 

that is ALL i have said from the beginning. you're the one nit picking and clinging to your dark and light rewards stingily as if they're some kind of accomplishment

 

YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO GET THEM. QUIT ACTING SUPERIOR.

 

that is all

 

So we are being stingy for playing the game like is was given to us?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bossalinie

[ChazDoit]

lol @ everyone in the thread, the only thing that you are really missing by beign neutral is a pet a mount, and some custom gloves/boots that the NPC in the spacestation sells, there is no real advantage for beign darkside or lightside either

[Lormif]

no i was saying if i am scoring POINTS i need to get SOMETHING for them.

 

light or dark i don't give a rats ***. if i am investing time into the game, i should get rewarded.

 

that is ALL i have said from the beginning. you're the one nit picking and clinging to your dark and light rewards stingily as if they're some kind of accomplishment

 

YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO GET THEM. QUIT ACTING SUPERIOR.

 

that is all

 

And again, that is complete opposite from what I have been saying.. They are supposed to be an accomplishment. I did do something to get them, I went light side or dark side.. That is something.

[Parckie]

agreed, I just pick everything dark, although sometimes I wouldnt.

[Lormif]

agreed, I just pick everything dark, although sometimes I wouldnt.

 

And if there was not a cap on the total points, would you? If so then you are not really RPing you are min/maxing, which should never be considered like this in a game.

[Styxx]

no i was saying if i am scoring POINTS i need to get SOMETHING for them.

 

light or dark i don't give a rats ***. if i am investing time into the game, i should get rewarded.

 

that is ALL i have said from the beginning. you're the one nit picking and clinging to your dark and light rewards stingily as if they're some kind of accomplishment

 

YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO GET THEM. QUIT ACTING SUPERIOR.

 

that is all

 

You are rewarded for what you do within the game. If I run Operations all day long I will be better equipped than you sitting in some town cybering ... we are both spending the same time, only mine is more.. efficiently spent and thus I reap more rewards.

 

You want to be able to get the best from two choices that are opposite, within a game tailored around making only ONE choice ONLY... you can`t.

 

Deal with it.

[Bossalinie]

You are rewarded for what you do within the game. If I run Operations all day long I will be better equipped than you sitting in some town cybering ... we are both spending the same time, only mine is more.. efficiently spent and thus I reap more rewards.

 

You want to be able to get the best from two choices that are opposite, within a game tailored around making only ONE choice ONLY... you can`t.

 

Deal with it.

 

Next thing he will be want is to have all crafting/gathering professions.

[Lormif]

Next thing he will be want is to have all crafting/gathering professions.

 

and at MAx level with no effort.

[CharagonIGN]

Next thing he will be want is to have all crafting/gathering professions.

 

A more apt comparison would be that he wouldn't like it if every time he leveled up one profession, he lost skill in the other two.

[mammothgamer]

i'm gonna say something here and i hope all of you can understand this,

 

this is a game based in the star wars universe where your actions are either light, dark or neutral(meaning doing nothing). if one goes light they obviously get light equipment, if one goes dark they get dark equipment, but if one goes neutral then the only equipment that would fit the defintion of "neutral" would be normal equipment without moral requirements.

 

wikimon i believe that you need to stop and breath a moment because the reason many people's arguments against you have seemed illogical is because you keep changing your argument based on what makes them wrong and not you as right.

 

for example the hole digging comment as no real relevance to the game, the burger and pizza analogy is moot because if you are neutral you therefore stay in the middle with no pizza or burger.

 

to everyone, if bw says they are doing something about it, i think we should just have faith and see what they have to offer, its not like they have consistently brought out bad games, and no game is perfect.

[WarTornPanda]

And if there was not a cap on the total points, would you? If so then you are not really RPing you are min/maxing, which should never be considered like this in a game.

 

Then you agree that the arbitrary cap is ruining the roleplaying experience?

[Lormif]

Then you agree that the arbitrary cap is ruining the roleplaying experience?

 

If you are a min/maxer then yes, but that is your fault, not the games fault.

[wikimon]

Except you are not picking a side, again, who rewards, you? This is about the game design, not the mechanics design. This is a SW game, there is a light and a dark side, if you dont want to pick a side who rewards you?

 

i DID pick a side. if i got 1000 light points that means i did as much for "good" as jedi anakin whatshisface over there.

 

what does it matter that i also did 1000 darkside points as well? there's no consistancy in the game for BEING both light and dark. your mentor or whoever you visit doesn't change his dialog. he doesn't scowl at you reproachfully for killing women and children on hoth, so long as whatever choices you make in his presence are good and wholesome.

 

therefore with zero consistency in the story, what do you care "who rewards you?"

 

you're saying this as if it BREAKS SOMETHING that isn't currently BROKEN.

[Styxx]

Anakin Skywalker, or Darth Vader...

 

1. He starts neutral at age 9 when he is first discovered

2. He begins gaining LS points while being trained by Obi-Wan (let`s assume 5000 LS... no DS yet)

3. He begins to be proud an` stuff .. and he kinda falls in love... (let`s assume 5500 LS and about 2500 DS.. an average of some tally 3000 still towards LS )

4. Then he kinda slaughters some innocent women and children when his mom kinda dies... (let`s assume 5500 LS and about 6000 DS... tally minus 500 DS)

5. Then he kinda kills his wife and some other innocent folks... (it surely makes 10.000 DS points, such a great feat).

 

So you see... even the Darth himself needed to lose LS points...

 

[EDIT]When he was LS, he was rewarded by The Jedi Council.. when he was DS .. by Palpatine...

 

Will you come and say that George Lucas was wrong too, now?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Styxx

[DeathBringerFry]

this is not a moral weighing system. this is not real life. this is a GAME MECHANICS SYSTEM

<repeat as many times as necessary until it sinks in>

 

if you paid me to dig a hole. i dug it. you pay me

then someone else pays me to fill it. he pays me.

that's how it works. i did twice the amount of work, i got twice the pay

 

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here? He keeps stating it’s a game and not real life, and then compares it to real life examples.

 

no it's not a moral weighing system because the choices you make in the game are not immediately rewarded.

 

It IS a moral choice. Doing the right (or wrong) thing doesn't mean you automatically get rewarded; sometimes you don't get rewarded at all. I'd say that's pretty realistic. However, in saying that you do raise a good point, I don't think you should only be rewarded for choosing 100% good or evil decisions. I suppose the neutral gear should alleviate that somewhat.

 

Still, some of us play the game for the story, shaping the galaxy how we want, interacting with people the way we want, not always looking at what we have to do to get the best gear in the game. So I suppose that’s up to the individual.

 

They have repeatedly said, over and over again, they will be putting rewards for being neutral, even through I dont like it. If you help the republic and turn coat to the empire the empire should reward you, but very little because you are untrustworthy.

 

You, as well as a number of others, seem to be miss-associating Light/Dark with Republic/Empire. For example as a Jedi Consular, you come across a moral dilemma when you discover the Hutt working with the republic, used to be a criminal. Do you choose the ‘light’ side and report him to the republic officers and make him pay for his crimes, thus losing a valuable trading partner for the republic? Or do you pick the ‘dark’ side and neglect to mention it so that the trade agreement continues and the republic keeps a valuable trade partner? While the later choice would be for the greater good, it’s (arguably) morally wrong, hence the ‘dark’ side points. That to me only adds to the RP experience.

 

In my opinion...

 

First thought - remember, there is a subtle but important difference between the moral good/evil and the Force Light/Dark.

 

There should be more neutral aligned gear for Non-Force users. For example, making light-side choices as an Imperial agent (such as not killing off the eels that will help get supplies for the imperial military) is perfectly reasonable. Being thoroughly light or dark isn't relevant to the way non-force users live.

 

There should not be much neutral gear for Force users. The Jedi and Sith are both, in their own ways, guided by the force, and are generally averse to doing anything that touches the opposed aspect of the force. Being pure light or pure dark is important to them, as there are long-term consequences (especially for Jedi, since the dark side seemes awfully self-reinforcing).

 

Does the current system seem to force certain choices in RP? Only if you're concerned about your "alignment". And from what I've seen so far, my Sith hasn't had many situations where I'd want to take that light-side choice (take the renegade general captive? No, no, he dies now, and painfully, as much for offending me as because he is a traitor).

 

This has pretty much hit the nail on the head. It would be hard to implement game-wise I imagine, but would be spot on. Well Spoken Sir!

[BlackSmokeDMax]

i DID pick a side. if i got 1000 light points that means i did as much for "good" as jedi anakin whatshisface over there.

 

what does it matter that i also did 1000 darkside points as well? there's no consistancy in the game for BEING both light and dark. your mentor or whoever you visit doesn't change his dialog. he doesn't scowl at you reproachfully for killing women and children on hoth, so long as whatever choices you make in his presence are good and wholesome.

 

therefore with zero consistency in the story, what do you care "who rewards you?"

 

you're saying this as if it BREAKS SOMETHING that isn't currently BROKEN.

 

The problem here is you keep assuming you are building separate factions. What you are failing to realize is that by building faction with one, you are basically lowering your faction with the other. That is INTENDED and completely logical when you are involved with a war.

 

Think of it this way, one side knows when you are helping the other, that is a negative to them.

 

What it boils down to is that this IS exactly a moral compass of your character's actions. You are not really building a total of light and a total of dark. Think of each action has moving a point on a scale (you know just how it is represented.) I could see your point if they had just made two separate bar graphs, but no, they actually show your total.

 

You know maybe it might be better if BW had not given plus points to both. I think you would feel better if the UI had given + points for doing something good, and - points for doing something bad, and not shown you the separate totals (this is the way it is intended, they are only giving us the separate totals so we can look back I would guess.)

 

On another topic:

 

I do have a question on the 10K total a couple people keep throwing around, is this actually stated somewhere, or was this accidentally quoted as an example and taken as gospel?

[Myrkana]

I would love for there to be a neutral option for gear and rewards :/ I make choices based off what I think is best, with only LS or DS choices for gear I might as well go through the entire game clicking the ds/ls giving options only depending on where I need to end up :/

 

You could follow light ideals but do it in a somewhat darker way like say: everyone has the right to be free etc... but if someone impedes on your freedom you have the right to kill them for that? thats just a basic example :-p

 

right now my character is -950 total, and that number is constantly shifting. Recently I've made more dark side than light side. But it also hasn't moved much because I've made a lot of neutral choices as well.

 

Some say well this makes sense for game mechanics: but then what about the rp mechanics? I'm playing this game because the talking and rping part is VERY immersing, but without that it's just another like wow,aion,rift, etc.....

 

To the people saying just go do flashpoints: If I wanted to go grind out things like that I'd go back to wow my shaman still needs her 30days of fire lands dailies and crap. besides the alignment is part of the character's feel.

 

 

from a gear standpoint: someone who's neutral could work with both sides and could get gear from helping dark or light as rewards or from a sort of "black market" where these things are sold :/ I mean you really think the jedi outfit it really exclusively made by them and no one else can copy or remake it?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Myrkana

[Sovjohn]

Alright, my input in this - I have consciously built a character who is an Imperial Agent, but as I've pictured him, he follows the Light Side in secret. He's a cyborg, and does not "attune" to the Force as Force-users do. He's also a medic, and I'm not being compatible with playing a full evil medic - he just wouldn't heal anyone, but let everyone die instead.

 

Now - For non-Force users, being predominantly LS or DS would give you a bonus, but you are not strictly expected to maintain 100% of the alignment.

 

I currently have about 2,500 LS points, but have some 800 DS points as well. Why? Because I generally choose to let my informants / associates go free and turn a blind eye on them instead of killing them, however, in several "side-story missions", the character has to behave in a cold-professionalism way of thinking.

 

My contract was to kill you, I uphold my contract and get DS points. Business, not personal. Then again, my expected behavior would be to kill my renegade informant, but my informant helped me bring down the entire Republic operations in a planet - Imperial Intelligence or myself are not better off killing him, he's an "asset" who I can call upon in the future. LS points there.

 

Essentially - I plan to reach Light IV, the way things are right now, but my sporadic DS choices will prevent me from reaching Light V, ever.

 

I can live with that, so long as the difference between the two is not game-breaking. Ideally though, I'd like to see some quest line which would enable you to undo what you've done and clean the slate - not automatically, and not through neutral gear, but rather through earning more LS / DS points than "the cap".

 

That's the way I see things - I am perfectly happy with my character behaving as I want him to behave, but don't kick me in the nuts for following Imperial Intelligence's mantra "Stay out of politics, we're here to clean up the mess and bring glory to the Empire". This is what I do, essentially, I'm not roleplaying a traitor to the Empire, merely someone who takes "the side of the people and not the Dark Council's side"...