Alignment doesn't make sense, BioLucas

[DarkSeverance]

The lack of content available for people going a more Neutral alignment path, has been one of the highly discussed and big things that drag the game down in gamesite scores.

I have faith that BW is already working on this for a future content patch or expansion.

Unless you are Switzerland and actively not doing anything.... a neutral path is not making any choices and doing nothing. There are no neutral paths in Star Wars. It is about choice, left or right not just standing in the center and not doing anything. Sure you could choose to stand there and do nothing, that would also technically be a choice. Although last I checked people don't get rewards for just sitting on the couch.

[DarkSeverance]

Yep. You end up getting punished for playing the game the way it was intended. I've made numerous choices I wouldn't otherwise make just to get the points. Very poor system.

Again you don't have to make the choices to just get points. That is why Flashpoints give you options and they are repeatable. Make your choices in your gameplay, then just like every other faction grind game do some flashpoints to reverse it. It is much kinder than grinding faction in WoW, much kinder and easier.

[Buur]

Again you don't have to make the choices to just get points. That is why Flashpoints give you options and they are repeatable. Make your choices in your gameplay, then just like every other faction grind game do some flashpoints to reverse it. It is much kinder than grinding faction in WoW, much kinder and easier.

 

So in order to overcome a poor system you have to grind FPs and make the same choices every time. Awesome.

[DarkSeverance]

So in order to overcome a poor system you have to grind FPs and make the same choices every time. Awesome.

They essentially could be a faction and it is pretty easy and not a grind at all. Now if you want to talk about faction grinding, we can talk about WoW and how that is a poor system. Compared to how faction is handled there, this is a cake walk.

[SNCommand]

Why not use Diplomacy to counter any light or dark side choices you did not wish points from? Having three companions working on missions at the same time not only grant a lot of supplies and gifts but also alignment points. I must have gotten around 2000 dark side points from diplomacy.

[DarkSeverance]

Why not use Diplomacy to counter any light or dark side choices you did not wish points from? Having three companions working on missions at the same time not only grant a lot of supplies and gifts but also alignment points. I must have gotten around 2000 dark side points from diplomacy.

That is of course another option. I didn't mention it because I wanted to list options available to everyone that didn't limit them because now they couldn't use a Crew Skill they wanted.

[shoryushoryu]

I think some people are missing the point and this is actually a very important issue.

 

The problem is that you can be active while making a lot of "good" and "evil" decisions but the alignment points cancel each other out. The current system takes away all your freedom of choice if you want to benefit from alignment rewards.

 

Personally I've been making decisions as I would IRL because this is my first playthrough, but I do feel I am getting somewhat punished compared to players who will go 100% good or evil. What is even the point of having a choice throughout the game in this case?

 

OP is completely right, this doesn't make sense for a game that seems to value story and player experience.

[wikimon]

When you do something bad, you aren't just a bad guy because you did it. It doesn't just automatically erase it when you do something good. It takes a little bit more good choices to erase or prove that you are good again.

 

this is not a moral weighing system. this is not real life. this is a GAME MECHANICS SYSTEM

 

<repeat as many times as necessary until it sinks in>

[Lormif]

okay how about this, you get paid 5 bucks an hour for shoveling a hole. you can also get paid 5 bucks an hour for mixing this cement.

 

you shoveled a hole for an hour. i shoveled a hold for an hour AND ALSO mixed cement for an hour.

 

you got paid, i didn't

 

where is the fairness?

 

A more apt comparison would be if you get paid $5 to dig a hole, then immediately fill it in, they will want their $5 back.

[Lormif]

I think some people are missing the point and this is actually a very important issue.

 

The problem is that you can be active while making a lot of "good" and "evil" decisions but the alignment points cancel each other out. The current system takes away all your freedom of choice if you want to benefit from alignment rewards.

 

Personally I've been making decisions as I would IRL because this is my first playthrough, but I do feel I am getting somewhat punished compared to players who will go 100% good or evil. What is even the point of having a choice throughout the game in this case?

 

OP is completely right, this doesn't make sense for a game that seems to value story and player experience.

 

They have repeatedly said, over and over again, they will be putting rewards for being neutral, even through I dont like it. If you help the republic and turn coat to the empire the empire should reward you, but very little because you are untrustworthy.a

[Lormif]

this is not a moral weighing system. this is not real life. this is a GAME MECHANICS SYSTEM

 

<repeat as many times as necessary until it sinks in>

 

It is not RL, but it is a moral weighing system.

[Aidbringer]

Persnoally I do like the track Lightside and Darkside separately.

 

The books do have some 'grey' Jedi that dabble in the dark, but generally still follow the light.

 

So yeah I would be fine, with a Force user, that is max rank light and max right dark (though a lot of crew missions, etc to earn points).

 

What I woud like to see is:

 

Gear be based off Light (or dark) total points, regardless of what your 'net balance' was.

 

Say Light 10,000 with Dark 5,000 still could wear gear requiring light 10,000.

 

However ideally (to me), MOBs reactions should be based on 'net totals'

 

So for the above, the character woudl be treated as light 5,000 (10,000 - 5,000). 'Good' character would likely ask for help, 'swindlers' may try to take advantage, etc. 'Bad' cahracter would likely sense the person is not the kind to offer, certain work to, and would not even approach (or talk to) them.

 

Light (or Dark) points earned (total) should matter for gear.

 

Absolute (light-dark) should be used for how people/events react.

[wikimon]

It is not RL, but it is a moral weighing system.

 

no it's not a moral weighing system because the choices you make in the game are not immediately rewarded.

 

if you choose to stab someone that's evil right? but what if you did it to protect someone? that's good right?

 

well evil or good, both outcomes have no bearing on your plot storyline or life. the only outcome is a meager gain/loss to some reward scale.

 

there's no SKILL or CHOICE being made here. other than do you want a reward or don't you?

 

you're not weighing anyone's morals, you're asking a simple question about whether they want game rewards or not.

[Lormif]

no it's not a moral weighing system because the choices you make in the game are not immediately rewarded.

 

if you choose to stab someone that's evil right? but what if you did it to protect someone? that's good right?

 

well evil or good, both outcomes have no bearing on your plot storyline or life. the only outcome is a meager gain/loss to some reward scale.

 

there's no SKILL or CHOICE being made here. other than do you want a reward or don't you?

 

you're not weighing anyone's morals, you're asking a simple question about whether they want game rewards or not.

 

 

 

Actually they are. In Esseles if you chose to leave the ambassador behind you are rewarded with more credits.

[DarkSeverance]

Light (or Dark) points earned (total) should matter for gear.

 

Absolute (light-dark) should be used for how people/events react.

That doesn't make any sense though. Essentially the gear comes from the people who are reacting to your alignment. You do good things, you get gear basically from the Republic. You do bad things you get gear from the Empire. You don't do anything significant for either side you get what everyone else gets.

[kiern]

if i got 1000 lightpoints and 1000 darkpoints and you have 1000 darkpoints only, did i not do exactly as much work for the darkside as you?

 

why aren't i rewarded then?

 

okay how about this, you get paid 5 bucks an hour for shoveling a hole. you can also get paid 5 bucks an hour for mixing this cement.

 

you shoveled a hole for an hour. i shoveled a hold for an hour AND ALSO mixed cement for an hour.

 

you got paid, i didn't

 

where is the fairness?

 

 

Because, as you mention in the title of your post, we are talking about alignments, not factions. You get rewarded by a faction for doing work for them. If you do work for both factions, you get rewards from both. You do the quest and get rewarded for it. That is essentially the digging the hole. You get paid.

 

Alignment is a sum total of your experience. It is your moral character. It is on a slider. If you do 1000pts light and 1000pts dark, you end up at "0" alignment toward either side, because they cancel each other out. The reward is for committing to a path. It is the lore. You become stronger in the darkside by embracing darkside actions. being sometimes good, and sometimes bad is not embracing the path, and thus shouldn't gain you anything.

 

That said, as a game mechanic in an MMO, you shouldn't be penalized for playing a certain way. As has been mentioned many, many times, it was brought up in beta and they understood and are working on stuff for those with neutral alignments.

[Lormif]

That doesn't make any sense though. Essentially the gear comes from the people who are reacting to your alignment. You do good things, you get gear basically from the Republic. You do bad things you get gear from the Empire. You don't do anything significant for either side you get what everyone else gets.

 

I could see neutral Voss gear.

[spencer_]

personally, I've always felt like you should have 4-6 options on the wheel (the wheel has enough room for it), and each choice gives you lightside, darkside, paragon, and renegade points. Combine biowares multiple morality systems as it were.

 

Lightside points are earned for choosing the "moral" choice, and darkside for "immoral" choices.

 

Paragon points would be given for "positive" intentions (for instance, killing a sith lord instead of letting him stand trial because you honestly believe he is too dangerous, this would give darkside and paragon points).

 

Renegade points would be given for sadistic choices (killing said Sith lord because you can).

 

Have a box alignment meter instead of a slider, and the closer you are to one of the corners, the better gear you get.

 

gear types:

Lightside - Paragon (Traditional high and mighty Jedi)

Lightside - Renegade (redeemed Sith who still has a bit of a sarcastic streak)

Darkside - Paragon (Lord Praven or Darth Revan type character)

Darkside - Renegade (Traditional sadistic Sith)

 

The cool thing is, there would be a circular area in the center where true neutral lies, and special gear would be available here as well, since with my system neutrality would be a very tricky affair.

 

Seriously Bioware, let me make the wrong choice for the right reasons. Some sith really are too dangerous to be kept alive.

Edited December 28, 2011 by spencer_

[DarkSeverance]

well evil or good, both outcomes have no bearing on your plot storyline or life. the only outcome is a meager gain/loss to some reward scale.

That isn't true. On the Empire when you kill the Captain the crew cower and give you an item chest that has items and money. If you choose not to kill him or neutral path you get nothing. Also some contacts and missions have come from people that have lived as opposed to if they were dead, you wouldn't have those options or optional storyline.

[Satpolpp]

Isnt it stated somewhere that the rewards for these would only be cosmetic? It's not a fair comparison to infamous because in that game u have different abilities based on your alignment.

 

I think this feature needs a lot more clarification tho however, and that whole dark jedi/light sith thing is really kinda awkward, but atm I will have to assume that the whole feature was built in to satisfy RPers in particular

[Zedkuss]

if i got 1000 lightpoints and 1000 darkpoints and you have 1000 darkpoints only, did i not do exactly as much work for the darkside as you?

 

why aren't i rewarded then?

 

You're working for both sides..Why should you get powerful darkside stuff to use against them when you're off helping the light?

 

It would be like America setting up Concentration Camps during WWII to gain the Nazi's trust to reveal where Hitler is, then killing Hitler..You're not neutral, both sides hate you equally now >.<

[Vlacke]

Personally i am looking forward to neutral alignment items.

[wikimon]

You're working for both sides..Why should you get powerful darkside stuff to use against them when you're off helping the light?

 

It would be like America setting up Concentration Camps during WWII to gain the Nazi's trust to reveal where Hitler is, then killing Hitler..You're not neutral, both sides hate you equally now >.<

 

because IT'S A GAME MECHANIC, NOT REAL LIFE

 

why should you get paid nothing if you work for both mcdonalds and burgerking?

 

your time investment is what should be rewarded in the game, not your moral choices because as i have said it takes no skill to select the choice to be 100% light or 100% dark.

 

why are you defending this as if you have some pride in an accomplishment "ha ha you didn't pick the right options, i get cake and you don't!!!"

 

this is a game first and foremost. there should never be an option for "invest time, get nothing". regardless of how you view it, that's bad design. simple as that.

[Lormif]

because IT'S A GAME MECHANIC, NOT REAL LIFE

 

why should you get paid nothing if you work for both mcdonalds and burgerking?

 

your time investment is what should be rewarded in the game, not your moral choices because as i have said it takes no skill to select the choice to be 100% light or 100% dark.

 

why are you defending this as if you have some pride in an accomplishment "ha ha you didn't pick the right options, i get cake and you don't!!!"

 

this is a game first and foremost. there should never be an option for "invest time, get nothing". regardless of how you view it, that's bad design. simple as that.

 

Burger king and McDonald are not enemies, they are competitors, that is apples to oranges. Again, if I pay you to dig a hole, and you immediately fill it in, do you think you deserve to be paid to dig a hole?

 

As for time invest me, so I should be able to chat in general and get good rewards for nothing else?

[Bellumpvp]

IMO the "neutral" gear should be such that you have to have 1000 Dark AND 1000 light points, or something to that effect. That way the gear can still have ranks like light-and-dark gear but you don't have to spend all your time trying to maintain a perfect balance.

 

Thats terrible, then every decision you made, you would have to calculate and make sure you are dead even... nu uh.