Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) I'm taking this down... I need to look inward and not blame this on something else. Sorry for wasting your time.. I'm still of the opinion that it needs to be un-nerfed but my comments about snipers not being endgame worthy were incorrect. Edited May 6, 2016 by Otchiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 *sigh* Now I'm depressed. Then again, I'm trying it as "dirty fighting". Ah well, the wheel turns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Thank you for making snipers and Gunslingers almost completely irrelevant in 4.0 against Endgame final Bosses. They weren't before!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) Although I agree with the point that the nerf was bigger than it needed to be, I completely and utterly disagree with you saying that the class spec is irrelevant. The reasons for that are simply that the class still has great survivability and support options that are not expressed in straight DPS on a dummy, but do have great benefits in actual boss fights. But I do agree that the nerf of 30% was more than it needed to be. Edit: Ahh wait you said NiM somewhere...yeh for NiM that may be true indeed. Edited May 2, 2016 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelballz Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) My main character is also a Marksmanship Sniper and I do both OPS and PVP, however I PVP more often. I was pretty disappointed with the nerf. I also agree that it was a pretty extreme nerf in my opinion. For the first time Sorc Wars had decreased because the amount of Sorcerers I and other snipers were annihilating in Warzones. My class didn't feel like a cushion anymore and at least when people hit me hard I could hit them like a truck too with Ambush, Followthrough, and Penetrating Blasts. I'm also requesting BW revisit class balance soon and tweak it accordingly. Edited May 2, 2016 by squirrelballz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Although I agree with the point that the nerf was bigger than it needed to be, I completely and utterly disagree with you saying that the class spec is irrelevant. The reasons for that are simply that the class still has great survivability and support options that are not expressed in straight DPS on a dummy, but do have great benefits in actual boss fights. But I do agree that the nerf of 30% was more than it needed to be. Edit: Ahh wait you said NiM somewhere...yeh for NiM that may be true indeed. Yeah, this is for Nim..... Nightmare progression content, last night i was absolutely devastated that i couldn't keep my Sniper in Prog anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I always though Smugglers were just there for comic relief and Agents to stand around quoting Noel Coward while sipping brandy. You mean they actually contribute? Hmm ... learn something new every day. Seriously, many of my best ... well, a few of my best fri ... okay, one of my best frien ... yeah, I met a Smuggler once ... actually, we stood next to each other at the GTN. After five minutes without him making any witty comment imbued with innuendo, I told him to "L2P!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excise Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I feel for ya, but ultimately target dummy DPS is only a small portion of the picture. There are a ton of intangible things that help a class deal damage or provide utility that target dummy DPS don't account for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthThuzad Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I feel for ya, but ultimately target dummy DPS is only a small portion of the picture. There are a ton of intangible things that help a class deal damage or provide utility that target dummy DPS don't account for. It's still a good indicator to start out with, though. I digress, though. As the main tank of the Brontes runs OP was in, I can vouch that we were barely meeting the checks between the droids exploding if I didn't dps more than I had to before doing my job (rounding up the other droids) and the six fingers being up too long. Keep in mind that everyone's in close to optimized 224s, and I can vouch for him knowing his class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 I feel for ya, but ultimately target dummy DPS is only a small portion of the picture. There are a ton of intangible things that help a class deal damage or provide utility that target dummy DPS don't account for. Output potential is still needing to be gauged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excise Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Output potential is still needing to be gauged. Gauge it, sure, but each fight has different requirements. Something like Operative/Scoundrel DPS will be poor on Brontes's droid phase as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Gauge it, sure, but each fight has different requirements. Something like Operative/Scoundrel DPS will be poor on Brontes's droid phase as well. Not entirely, since they're super mobile, with 2 rolls, and the dash there now... they can get around pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Gauge it, sure, but each fight has different requirements. Something like Operative/Scoundrel DPS will be poor on Brontes's droid phase as well. And they're bursty without needing to ramp up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 *sigh* Now I'm depressed. Then again, I'm trying it as "dirty fighting". Ah well, the wheel turns... Basically, if it's anything than Dirty fighting/Virulence... you're going to have a bad time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Basically, if it's anything than Dirty fighting/Virulence... you're going to have a bad time Well, so far anyway, I'm enjoying dirty fighting. We'll see how well I fare as things get more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Well, so far anyway, I'm enjoying dirty fighting. We'll see how well I fare as things get more difficult. What content are you on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 What content are you on? Star Fortress HM starting tomorrow. Mostly 208 gear and decent weapons. Problem is, I'm old and my reflexes aren't what they used to be. But hey, I made it this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Yeah, this is for Nim..... Nightmare progression content, last night i was absolutely devastated that i couldn't keep my Sniper in Prog anymore. I don't get that part about BW. They could've easily decided to take the balance and reduce it by 10-15% instead of a whopping 30%. It would've made all the difference in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 PvP people say that Sharpshooter Gunslingers are totally balanced. Yet no-one plays them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 PvP people say that Sharpshooter Gunslingers are totally balanced. Yet no-one plays them. I think the OP does have a point about NiM ops, but in all other parts of the game they do just fine...people are just sheep following the leader who cried "this spec is now completely useless". And once people believe it, no fact will take them away from that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) I think the OP does have a point about NiM ops, but in all other parts of the game they do just fine...people are just sheep following the leader who cried "this spec is now completely useless". And once people believe it, no fact will take them away from that idea. That's the thing, i came to this realization the absolute hard way. I'm not saying that the entire class is useless but the numbers do not lie, and neither does the impact (or lack there of) of Marksman and that 20% loss of Crit damage (Surge). It's gotten to the point, and argue all you want... go take a look at the forums to prove my point. There are simply not as many mains as gunslingers or Snipers in NIM raiding. If it can't be done in Virulence.... then best of luck keeping competitive numbers alive. Edited May 2, 2016 by Otchiver asdfsadasdasd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otchiver Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Shamless bump, for further discussion... You can go here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steefr Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 While sure i can agree marksman has been nerfed too hard, i honestly don't get your point that the class is not viable for nim content. There's not a single fight where you need the marksman burst. You do not "hurt" your team by playing virulence. It can be done and done really well on ec nim tanks, works great on brontes nim since burn phase is the only phase that matters and you do awesome there since all setup time is during brontes her bubble period. If you say you need burst on the fingers or clock phase, that's just wrong. Pre-cast orbital ((50% chance of hitting the right add), put your dots on the add + laze target cull=ded add, unless your co dps sucks. I've never had a problem during the fingers phase either with virulence. Styrak nim virulence is perfect for chained manifestion/dpsing styrak in between. Lines up great with 3 cull rotation and allows for precasting orbital on chained manifestion add. I might not miss marksman as much as you do, since i've never really enjoyed it and i agree the nerf was a bit much but you do not NEED marksman for any fight on a sniper, thus claiming the class is not viable is just untrue. You would've probably found better succes with your post had you nuanced your original statement more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord-angelus Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 That's a overstatement. You clearly don't know the sins situation. Our sniper is always is number 1 on the parse because many of the boss allows dot spreading. You can switch to engineering to virulence from fight to fight basis. Saying that could use some buff something (which I completely disagree) is one thing, saying that is irrelevant is another. There are class irrelevant in this game, sniper isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatT Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Not entirely, since they're super mobile, with 2 rolls, and the dash there now... they can get around pretty quick. prob is, when you're busy being mobile, you're not doing any damage, o ther than dots you have ticking somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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