Devs please read - game is too easy now.

[ReverendAnderson]

I agree that the leveling quests are too easy. I don't mind the weak and normal enemies being fodder, but I wish bosses felt like bosses. I'm constantly being told about how dangerous something is, or how powerful the villain at the end of this quest will be, and none of it is ever true. My padawan could kill most of the story quest bosses while I watched; and if I tried they'd go down without me needing to know anything more about playing my class than which keys I had bound to my first few attack powers.

 

Leveling in SWTOR makes KotOR look like Dark Souls.

[Keta]

I am enjoying this game more than I ever have and I have been playing off and on since beta.

 

i was in the very first round of closed beta. I enjoy the heck out of the game now after a nearly 2 year absence.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

As a veteran player with over 2000 Presence, I have EARNED my OP companions dammit, so don't you dare try to take them away from me.

[FlyingUsPoo]

1.0 lvling: Grind till you almost die, then go upgrade your gear with that planets comms. Give your old gear to your comps.

2.0-3.0 lvling: Grind till you almost die, go to fleet and upgrade your gear at the vendor with the gear closest to your level. Give your old gear to your comp.

4.0 lvling: Grind till you are max lvl.

 

This game was never hard.

You were always able to solo heroics, most people just ignored them because they were boring and there was no profit to be had after you left the planet.

Fun fact: Pre 4.0, at ~12 lvls over the mob, you were pretty much invulnerable.

Pick any instanced area in Pre 4.0, if you were +12 lvls above that area, you could set your comp to standby, run thru the entire instance and aggro the mobs. At that point, you would just LOS them and stand in a corner using AOE. It was a race to see if the graphics engine would overload before you could kill off the population.

[DieAlteHexe]

1.0 lvling: Grind till you almost die, then go upgrade your gear with that planets comms. Give your old gear to your comps.

2.0-3.0 lvling: Grind till you almost die, go to fleet and upgrade your gear at the vendor with the gear closest to your level. Give your old gear to your comp.

4.0 lvling: Grind till you are max lvl.

 

This game was never hard.

You were always able to solo heroics, most people just ignored them because they were boring and there was no profit to be had after you left the planet.

Fun fact: Pre 4.0, at ~12 lvls over the mob, you were pretty much invulnerable.

Pick any instanced area in Pre 4.0, if you were +12 lvls above that area, you could set your comp to standby, run thru the entire instance and aggro the mobs. At that point, you would just LOS them and stand in a corner using AOE. It was a race to see if the graphics engine would overload before you could kill off the population.

 

Grind? In this game? Grinding is when all you can do and I do mean ALL you can do, is park yourself at a location for hours on end, killing mobs. Nothing else, no questing, no OPs, nothing but killing mobs.

 

This game all but eliminates that (you can do it if you wish, sure) between world quests, class questions, FPs, PvP etc. etc.

 

Closest thing to "grinding" here is obtaining supply boxes for your Alliance. At least it has been for me even at release, I never had to "grind" anything. Now, it's incredibly easy to level. Sneeze and you've leveled.

[FlyingUsPoo]

Grind? In this game? Grinding is when all you can do and I do mean ALL you can do, is park yourself at a location for hours on end, killing mobs. Nothing else, no questing, no OPs, nothing but killing mobs.

 

This game all but eliminates that (you can do it if you wish, sure) between world quests, class questions, FPs, PvP etc. etc.

 

Closest thing to "grinding" here is obtaining supply boxes for your Alliance. At least it has been for me even at release, I never had to "grind" anything. Now, it's incredibly easy to level. Sneeze and you've leveled.

 

For your consumption

[DieAlteHexe]

For your consumption

 

Uh huh.

 

Grinding, in this game. What a hoot.

[force_fortytwo]

Being a founder as well, I have to say I can sympathize with the OP to some extent. While you always had to endure the tedious timesinks of planetary and side quests just to keep up with the level requirements and not be stomped by elites on higher planets in pre-4.0, it is now much more amenable for players who have done and seen it all and just want to level their alts quickly. Fair enough.

 

Sad thing is, new players who have no idea about how it was then will likely never know, as they have absolutely no incentive to do it the old-fashioned way, i.e. get drawn into these stories and get a better impression of the size and detail of the planets they're leveling on. The way the leveling system is now - sorry to say that to some of the previous repliants - it is a tad too quick. I would really like it if the devs implemented a kinda pre-4.0-ish path for the newcomers, which would consume more time but would also urge them to grasp the size of this game and all the options there are instead of putting them on the fast lane "so that thay can reach endgame quicker". The players which this game gains through this strategy, they eventually won't save the game cuz they are likely rather serial customers, who move on to another game that gives away its charms at least equally easy. Players just like me who fell in love with this game cuz it used to be so immersive, they might have been the original target group for this change - but newbies will likely never appreciate this change of pace.

 

As for the discussion about the companions being OP, my feeling is that it is generally okay how they are, but just a bit less power would be fine as well. Leveling new alts, I found out that by the time I reach Nar Shaddaa, I'm already at level cap when I start the planetary questing, and I've encountered two or three occasions so far in which I actually got close to dying even though having my companion in healing stance. (I even died, but only when coming across an unsoloable champion mob and not realizing it until it was too late )

 

That being said, I'd like to point out to the OP that you have some options to shrink your Companion's performance so the mobs are more of a challenge again (someone else put this in a different thread some weeks ago):

1. Set your companion to DPS

2. Deactivate the most powerful abilities

3. Intentionally pull more than one group of mobs at a time

4. Set your companion to passive when fighting normal and/or strong mobs.

These four ideas all do the trick for the ones seeking challenge while leveling.

[Mowermanx]

I agree that the leveling quests are too easy. I don't mind the weak and normal enemies being fodder, but I wish bosses felt like bosses. I'm constantly being told about how dangerous something is, or how powerful the villain at the end of this quest will be, and none of it is ever true. My padawan could kill most of the story quest bosses while I watched; and if I tried they'd go down without me needing to know anything more about playing my class than which keys I had bound to my first few attack powers.

 

Leveling in SWTOR makes KotOR look like Dark Souls.

 

Im of the same mind, trash is trash and as you level it should die at the mere sight of you, but when you come to the "epic" final of one of the chapters and finally meet face to face with your arch nemesis, and he/she dies at thought of you pulling your saber out, it's really a huge anticlimax.

[force_fortytwo]

Im of the same mind, trash is trash and as you level it should die at the mere sight of you, but when you come to the "epic" final of one of the chapters and finally meet face to face with your arch nemesis, and he/she dies at thought of you pulling your saber out, it's really a huge anticlimax.

 

Well, maybe you are one of those who actually know how to play their class, using rotations, defensive cooldowns etc. But here comes the use of trash mobs (including the usual elites on planets, to make it clear). They actually help you learn what is important for your respective class. So if you roflstomp all the mobs in chapter 1 with your two basic attacks and maybe one AoE, and then encounter the big bad one who uses more elaborate mechanics, you will have a hard time not dying in this situation.

So, I don't think that mobs "should die at the mere sight of you", they need to provide at least some resistance.

[peter_plankskull]

1.0 lvling: Grind till you almost die, then go upgrade your gear with that planets comms. Give your old gear to your comps.

2.0-3.0 lvling: Grind till you almost die, go to fleet and upgrade your gear at the vendor with the gear closest to your level. Give your old gear to your comp.

4.0 lvling: Grind till you are max lvl.

 

This game was never hard.

You were always able to solo heroics, most people just ignored them because they were boring and there was no profit to be had after you left the planet.

Fun fact: Pre 4.0, at ~12 lvls over the mob, you were pretty much invulnerable.

Pick any instanced area in Pre 4.0, if you were +12 lvls above that area, you could set your comp to standby, run thru the entire instance and aggro the mobs. At that point, you would just LOS them and stand in a corner using AOE. It was a race to see if the graphics engine would overload before you could kill off the population.

 

While you could out level a planet beforehand making it void of all tactics and complete easy mode, it was still a MUCH harder challenge than what we have now, and back then we had to worry about gearing ourselves and companions, now we have neither. I would prefer the game is hard at certain points and eventually it becomes faceroll, rather than complete faceroll 24/7.

[peter_plankskull]

That being said, I'd like to point out to the OP that you have some options to shrink your Companion's performance so the mobs are more of a challenge again (someone else put this in a different thread some weeks ago):

1. Set your companion to DPS

2. Deactivate the most powerful abilities

3. Intentionally pull more than one group of mobs at a time

4. Set your companion to passive when fighting normal and/or strong mobs.

These four ideas all do the trick for the ones seeking challenge while leveling.

 

Doing this doesn't change the game in any format or make you approach the situation differently, your still going to be pressing the same sequence of buttons, this time just more often making it tedious rather than increasing difficulty.

 

I'm currently leveling a jedi knight who only has his starter gear on and the light saber he created from the forge, and a level 25 companion, and I'm currently level 51 on quesh. The VERY first thing I do when I get to a new planet is find a elite, and, put my faithful Kira on passive, and try my best to kill it. So far, I have yet to die in combat other than 5 times, twice in a flashpoint, one time in a heroic were I accidently aggroed two mobs, one was three elites, and twice when I had a major disconnect in combat and I was getting cocky pulling multiple mobs without properly healing up. I realize apparently MMO games aren't my thing for combat, but I don't think I should be able to defeat elites with 3/5 of my health when I have my starter gear on.

[ivanhedgehog]

While you could out level a planet beforehand making it void of all tactics and complete easy mode, it was still a MUCH harder challenge than what we have now, and back then we had to worry about gearing ourselves and companions, now we have neither. I would prefer the game is hard at certain points and eventually it becomes faceroll, rather than complete faceroll 24/7.

 

It is rather easy to make the game the way you want it for yourself. problem solved. unless what you want is to set the difficulty for everyone else, in which case, tough luck.

[peter_plankskull]

It is rather easy to make the game the way you want it for yourself. problem solved. unless what you want is to set the difficulty for everyone else, in which case, tough luck.

 

Every suggestion I seen thus far hasn't yet made the game more difficult, but rather more tedious of doing the same thing over. I never have to approach a situation differently if im without my companion or when I approach a new boss or mob, I can either just DPS through it or its just rehashed from a previous mob. Funny how you mention me setting the difficulty for everyone else... but the casuals have done exactly that with 4.0. I want a balance between them, the game should be easy with trash and such, but chapter end bosses, elites, champions, and even strongs should still pose a threat.

[DieAlteHexe]

Every suggestion I seen thus far hasn't yet made the game more difficult, but rather more tedious of doing the same thing over. I never have to approach a situation differently if im without my companion or when I approach a new boss or mob, I can either just DPS through it or its just rehashed from a previous mob. Funny how you mention me setting the difficulty for everyone else... but the casuals have done exactly that with 4.0. I want a balance between them, the game should be easy with trash and such, but chapter end bosses, elites, champions, and even strongs should still pose a threat.

 

Still think the suggestion I saw (might've been this thread or any of the others on this subject) whereby you choose the level of difficulty much like you would in an offline game, would be a great idea. Coding nightmare but great idea. Then everyone could just carry on in their own world of "difficulty".

[peter_plankskull]

Still think the suggestion I saw (might've been this thread or any of the others on this subject) whereby you choose the level of difficulty much like you would in an offline game, would be a great idea. Coding nightmare but great idea. Then everyone could just carry on in their own world of "difficulty".

 

I should of probably reworded that... but every suggestion I can currently do in the game hasn't been able to increase in difficulty. I would be really looking forward to a select difficulty kind of worlds...maybe perhaps we can pick certain instances for the game to have a difficulty level on? For instance world one would be casual, instance two, normal, instance three hard, instance four would be sort of nightmarish and then we could still have room for the PVP and RP instances. They can then raise the health of the enemies on that instance up to par from metrics or whatever. I don't know... just some dream that will probably never get done and may be to complicated to code and isn't worth transferring the health/damage of every mob over.

[DieAlteHexe]

I should of probably reworded that... but every suggestion I can currently do in the game hasn't been able to increase in difficulty. I would be really looking forward to a select difficulty kind of worlds...maybe perhaps we can pick certain instances for the game to have a difficulty level on? For instance world one would be casual, instance two, normal, instance three hard, instance four would be sort of nightmarish and then we could still have room for the PVP and RP instances. They can then raise the health of the enemies on that instance up to par from metrics or whatever. I don't know... just some dream that will probably never get done and may be to complicated to code and isn't worth transferring the health/damage of every mob over.

 

Yup. Since they already have the whole infrastructure for instances, that would work out nicely, I think. Hell, there are days when I would like to push myself but then there are those when I just want to wallow in the story.

 

Choices are always good and I think you have a great idea there.

[Crossward]

I might be playing differently than you, but I've found (unintentionally!) that removing my companion from the equation DOES change how I play, significantly.

 

I'm in the long process of helping my mother run all 8 of her characters through all the Star Fortresses. We typically use level 50 companions.

 

Typically she takes the first wave of mobs and I run forward and kill everything else. Put Doc on passive, run forward, grab 4-5 groups, turn a corner, put him off passive and AoE them down. Easy peasy.

 

except sometimes I forget to put him on passive

 

Doc is waaay back at the first pull healing my mother and suddenly I have to fight 4-5 groups of enemies without companions or backup. Suddenly I'm switching to Soresu, using whatever the Republic version of chilling scream is called, saber reflecting, Unity, force stasis, Enure then focus defense, etc. It's stressful, difficult, and I've died more than once.

 

Maybe this doesn't apply to leveling, but at least in the context of Star Fortress missions, I've noticed a significant difference in playstyle between using a companion and not having one.

[force_fortytwo]

I'm currently leveling a jedi knight who only has his starter gear on and the light saber he created from the forge, and a level 25 companion, and I'm currently level 51 on quesh. The VERY first thing I do when I get to a new planet is find a elite, and, put my faithful Kira on passive, and try my best to kill it. So far, I have yet to die in combat other than 5 times, twice in a flashpoint, one time in a heroic were I accidently aggroed two mobs, one was three elites, and twice when I had a major disconnect in combat and I was getting cocky pulling multiple mobs without properly healing up. I realize apparently MMO games aren't my thing for combat, but I don't think I should be able to defeat elites with 3/5 of my health when I have my starter gear on.

 

I have to be honest, I do not test the game's mechanics that thoroughly, I usually gear up just because I'm used to doing so. But you gave me some idea there, maybe my new Jedi Shadow will NOT gear up and see how far he gets

[force_fortytwo]

For instance world one would be casual, instance two, normal, instance three hard, instance four would be sort of nightmarish and then we could still have room for the PVP and RP instances. They can then raise the health of the enemies on that instance up to par from metrics or whatever. I don't know... just some dream that will probably never get done and may be to complicated to code and isn't worth transferring the health/damage of every mob over.

 

^This.

 

Nice idea, hadn't thought of making planets SM, HM and NiM if they adjust the drops on these planets I'd totally go for it!

Why don't you make it an official suggestion? I think you might gain quite some approval from other players...

[Gokkus]

The fact that you can find challenges or can think of ways to make the game challenging doesnt mean the game overall is not too easy.

 

The standard leveling experience teaches you very, very little about mechanics. Interrupts arent necessary except maybe for Oricon, you can stand in AoE's easily, the order in which you attack mobs is irrelevant, CC or stuns are redundant, etc. Even heroics pose no challenge at all for the naturally overleveled player with a healing comp.

 

Im fine with things being easy for me, as a very experienced player. But when I see my girlfriend soloing champions and elites, saying: that was it? then something is wrong. It truly takes the epic feel away and diminishes the sense of accomplishment when you CANT DIE.

 

Yes I know I could tell her to run around with a DPS companion, but thats not the point. A healing companion should not make you invincible. There should be a challenge in the main solo game apart from figuring out how to navigate Belsavis and Corellia.

 

PS: I would also be in favor of a HM instance.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Gokkus

[Knorlac]

The fact that you can find challenges or can think of ways to make the game challenging doesnt mean the game overall is not too easy.

 

The standard leveling experience teaches you very, very little about mechanics. Interrupts arent necessary except maybe for Oricon, you can stand in AoE's easily, the order in which you attack mobs is irrelevant, CC or stuns are redundant, etc. Even heroics pose no challenge at all for the naturally overleveled player with a healing comp.

 

Im fine with things being easy for me, as a very experienced player. But when I see my girlfriend soloing champions and elites, saying: that was it? then something is wrong. It truly takes the epic feel away and diminishes the sense of accomplishment when you CANT DIE.

 

Yes I know I could tell her to run around with a DPS companion, but thats not the point. A healing companion should not make you invincible. There should be a challenge in the main solo game apart from figuring out how to navigate Belsavis and Corellia.

 

PS: I would also be in favor of a HM instance.

 

Agreed.

 

There is no sense of accomplishment anymore during leveling content. There are no more bosses that need you to stay on your toes and follow even the simplest of tactics. Every single villain has become nothing more than a pathetic and anticlimatic pushover.

 

Granted, this game was never very hard to begin with, but pre 4.0 you at least had to put in a quantum of effort/attention to not die and somewhat keep your gear up to date.

Combined with the crazy fast leveling and pretty much all of the sidequests turned invisible by default, this game has IMO become a terrible experience for any new player who doesn't just want to rush to endgame as fast as possible.

[Max_Killjoy]

I still put thought into how I fight any group of mobs. I use stuns and knockbacks and interrupts during the various Heroics I'm doing. I change up the order I use attacks in to have the best affect against the enemies I'm fighting.

 

Technically, no I don't need to, I could just sit there and hammer buttons, but that would be boring as hell.

 

I'll never understand the attitude of "I could sit here and hit 1 for 5 minutes, so therefore that's all I can so, and what I must do, and the game is therefore easy and boring and broken."

[Jedi_riches]

 

There is no sense of accomplishment anymore during leveling content.

 

When playing a game I don't really care for accomplishing anything, I simply want to play, relax and have fun, I understand that some are not like that but I guess many people are.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jedi_riches

[DieAlteHexe]

When playing a game I don't really care for accomplishing anything, I simply want to play, relax and have fun, I understand that some are not like that but I guess many people are.

 

I like achieving the long-term accomplishments, like Legendary or finishing a class quest line. Aside from that, I am as you are. There are a lot of us. I noticed that many (not all of course) evolve to this as they grow older and had less time to game. I remember guildies in EQ who were rabid raiders that mellowed to become more the questing adventurer as they grew out of their teens and young adulthood into "oh boy, responsibilities left and right" mode. Not 100% for sure but a lot of 'em.

 

Anecdotal so no one needs to try and assert I'm making a sweeping statement.