Devs please read - game is too easy now.

[HaoZhao]

Life's short. /Ignore is easy.

 

Back to the game I'm having a great deal of fun with!

 

I'm happy that watering down the solo content in 4.0 made the game enjoyable for you. What a nightmare it was back in the days when heroic quest enemies could actually hurt you. As you're playing the game now, I'm sure you won't be here in this topic again for a very long time.

Edited April 23, 2016 by HaoZhao

[masterceil]

Players that want to play an easy game don't have much choice of what they can do to make it easy. You need to face the fact that casual gaming is a thing, and not everybody gets into gaming for the "challenge". Some people, as has already been pointed out in this thread, really just want to enjoy the story. I'm among that number, as are the majority of people posting in this thread. When I want a challenge, I queue up in GF and run a Tac FP with three lowbie DPS...

 

Players that want to make this game difficult can do that as well. Play the game 'naked'. Set your companion to tank or dps instead of heals. Disable some of your companion's abilities. Hell, dismiss your companion entirely. You can make the game as challenging as you want it to be. You can't make it any easier than what Bioware makes it. I say that's a good thing.

[DieAlteHexe]

Players that want to play an easy game don't have much choice of what they can do to make it easy. You need to face the fact that casual gaming is a thing, and not everybody gets into gaming for the "challenge". Some people, as has already been pointed out in this thread, really just want to enjoy the story. I'm among that number, as are the majority of people posting in this thread. When I want a challenge, I queue up in GF and run a Tac FP with three lowbie DPS...

 

Players that want to make this game difficult can do that as well. Play the game 'naked'. Set your companion to tank or dps instead of heals. Disable some of your companion's abilities. Hell, dismiss your companion entirely. You can make the game as challenging as you want it to be. You can't make it any easier than what Bioware makes it. I say that's a good thing.

 

^^^^ That.

 

I'm a fan of BW for their ability to craft a good story in all their games. This, to me, is no exception. I have fun which is the only reason to play a game.

[lilathrone]

What game is a game where you can't lose?

 

I'm asking all of you repeating the same bs "ohhh i only want storiez life is hard enough", was it bad pre 4.0? You know, it wasn't hard, but you had to click on a few skills to get through some boss fights.

Now you are immortal and it's so immersive, that your astromech droid can kill

the Sith Emperor

 

without losing any health.

And you're telling me (us) to look for a different game, who has been a Kotor fan since 2003.

[HaoZhao]

Players that want to play an easy game don't have much choice of what they can do to make it easy. You need to face the fact that casual gaming is a thing, and not everybody gets into gaming for the "challenge". Some people, as has already been pointed out in this thread, really just want to enjoy the story. I'm among that number, as are the majority of people posting in this thread. When I want a challenge, I queue up in GF and run a Tac FP with three lowbie DPS...

 

Players that want to make this game difficult can do that as well. Play the game 'naked'. Set your companion to tank or dps instead of heals. Disable some of your companion's abilities. Hell, dismiss your companion entirely. You can make the game as challenging as you want it to be. You can't make it any easier than what Bioware makes it. I say that's a good thing.

 

While this is certainly a much better argument than the non-sense spewed by the other guy who kept leaving but actually didn't, there's some holes here. Consider the following:

 

1) Did you beat the solo content before 4.0? If so, then the content wasn't too challenging for you. If you finished any of the class stories, you can't tell me that you need the game to be easier so you can get to the story content. In this case, you were getting through the story content just fine when the quests were harder

 

2) Tying your hands behind your back to bring yourself down to an opponent's level isn't a real challenge. That's just patronizing and embarrassing an opponent. That's true in real life and in the game. A real challenge is when you're trying your absolute hardest and you still might lose.

 

3) I'm not sure what you've been told about companions, but DPS and tanking modes are quite powerful. I used DPS Gault on Makeb today and he was landing 17K hits on enemies that had nowhere near that much HP. In its current state, the game almost plays itself. You can just walk into mobs with your character and companions can win the battle for you.

Edited April 23, 2016 by HaoZhao

[kasanth]

My view on the subject is the same I have for EQ back in the day, World of Warcraft, and any game for that matter.

That view is the game is as easy as you make it. If you are looking for a challenge, you need to go do the

challenging content wherever that may be in the game. If you refuse to go do that content. I dont see where you

have any right complaining about the game being too easy since it is you that is choosing to only do the easy stuff.

 

They are trying to make the game so it is fun for different people. Make part of it easy so anyone can get through it.

Add in some harder challenges for those that seek them. It was that way for EQ, and its that way for WoW.

This is no better than players on WoW who wont go PVP. Wont do anything with any challenge to it.

But yet, they are the first to complain that what they are choosing to do is too easy. While they are complaining,

the challenging content is still wiping the top guilds in the world hundreds of times before they finally complete it.

 

While I cant say that the hardest content in SWTOR is wiping the top guilds. I can say that there is still

challenge out there. But its up to you if you want challenge or not. But dont claim you do when you refuse

to do the challenging content.

 

As a note. I do not know if you have done the hardest content. But from my experience in MMORPGs dating back

to EQ. The only people that claim the game is too easy are the players that refuse to do anything difficult.

[Max_Killjoy]

From the open letter you state that you try to digest everything that players say on the internet. Are you aware of the discussion of SWTOR becoming too easy since 4.0? On the swtor reddit and mmorpg reddit most people are in agreement that the challenge in SWTOR is all but gone because of how OP companions are now. New players coming into the game from other MMOs are finding the leveling experience in SWTOR to be boring.

 

As I understand it there was a vocal minority that complained when the companion bug was reverted, so you listened to these players and essentially re-applied the bug to allow solo players to steamroll through content.

 

As a returning player myself, this has made SWTOR feel cheap and neglected because it's a clear design imbalance when you can solo heroics and your health bar doesn't even move. When you level without much effort, vastly outpacing content, you feel that this new rate of progression clearly lacks tuning. I've noticed population in earlier maps dropping off substantially, and very rarely do I see people LFG the way I used to before 4.0.

 

Will this be addressed?

 

Scour the internet as you say you do. Do a simple google search and see for yourself. No need to take my word for it.

 

Anyway I wouldn't make this post if I didn't love SWTOR. You have a very special game here unlike any other. I just strongly feel you need to consider this growing dissatisfaction and nip it in the bud.

 

Seems relevant...

 

At any rate, this whole "game is too easy" thing is just as likely to be the "vocal minority" as any other position.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[squirrelballz]

While this is certainly a much better argument than the non-sense spewed by the other guy who kept leaving but actually didn't, there's some holes here. Consider the following:

 

1) Did you beat the solo content before 4.0? If so, then the content wasn't too challenging for you. If you finished any of the class stories, you can't tell me that you need the game to be easier so you can get to the story content. In this case, you were getting through the story content just fine when the quests were harder

 

2) Tying your hands behind your back to bring yourself down to an opponent's level isn't a real challenge. That's just patronizing and embarrassing an opponent. That's true in real life and in the game. A real challenge is when you're trying your absolute hardest and you still might lose.

 

3) I'm not sure what you've been told about companions, but DPS and tanking modes are quite powerful. I used DPS Gault on Makeb today and he was landing 17K hits on enemies that had nowhere near that much HP. In its current state, the game almost plays itself. You can just walk into mobs with your character and companions can win the battle for you.

What game is a game where you can't lose?

 

I'm asking all of you repeating the same bs "ohhh i only want storiez life is hard enough", was it bad pre 4.0? You know, it wasn't hard, but you had to click on a few skills to get through some boss fights.

Now you are immortal and it's so immersive, that your astromech droid can kill

the Sith Emperor

 

without losing any health.

And you're telling me (us) to look for a different game, who has been a Kotor fan since 2003.

 

No you have every right to enjoy the game the way you want to just like everyone else. What it simply comes down to is what the Devs decided would be best for the game and the design they decided to implement. Feel free to disagree with that direction but I'm sure you won't hear casuals complain and I'd bet they are fair size and this is who BW caters to and I think what they did is right (imo). What I'm suggesting you do is find challenge where challenge "is intended" I have yet to ever find solo play challenging in this game ever, frankly only time solo content was fun was when I finished a good story arc.

 

Now if you want fun and challenging play the difficult things the way they were intended, pug in a HM FP and HM/NIM OPS those are what I'd consider a legitimate challenge. After all why complain about challenge in general if you refuse to do the hardest content the game has. I'm pretty sure everyone is capable enough to find fun and challenging things to do in this game because it doesn't lack that. Also what good is an MMORPG if you refuse to play with others at least try group content and challenge yourself. but if you want to play solo feel free to do that as well but accept that you are responsible for own fun and challenge.

Edited April 23, 2016 by squirrelballz

[lilathrone]

My view on the subject is the same I have for EQ back in the day, World of Warcraft, and any game for that matter.

That view is the game is as easy as you make it. If you are looking for a challenge, you need to go do the

challenging content wherever that may be in the game. If you refuse to go do that content. I dont see where you

have any right complaining about the game being too easy since it is you that is choosing to only do the easy stuff.

 

They are trying to make the game so it is fun for different people. Make part of it easy so anyone can get through it.

Add in some harder challenges for those that seek them. It was that way for EQ, and its that way for WoW.

This is no better than players on WoW who wont go PVP. Wont do anything with any challenge to it.

But yet, they are the first to complain that what they are choosing to do is too easy. While they are complaining,

the challenging content is still wiping the top guilds in the world hundreds of times before they finally complete it.

 

While I cant say that the hardest content in SWTOR is wiping the top guilds. I can say that there is still

challenge out there. But its up to you if you want challenge or not. But dont claim you do when you refuse

to do the challenging content.

 

As a note. I do not know if you have done the hardest content. But from my experience in MMORPGs dating back

to EQ. The only people that claim the game is too easy are the players that refuse to do anything difficult.

 

......

Because the 0.00001% content in the game that's challenging and I am not interested in totally substitutes for the 99.99999% of the game that is immortal mode.

As I said in my previous post, I am a Kotor fan. I love Star Wars. I love Kotor. I'm interested in the fun story part of the game, not the gear grinding part. I don't want only challenge, I want an engaging, immersive, fun ride through the story.

[squirrelballz]

......

Because the 0.00001% content in the game that's challenging and I am not interested in totally substitutes for the 99.99999% of the game that is immortal mode.

As I said in my previous post, I am a Kotor fan. I love Star Wars. I love Kotor. I'm interested in the fun story part of the game, not the gear grinding part. I don't want only challenge, I want an engaging, immersive, fun ride through the story.

 

I hope you realize that OPS and FP's have stories and good ones too in my opinion. If you are a fan of story than I sincerely believe in my opinion that you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing these FP's OPS. Everyone should at least do all the FP's and OPS once for the story they are engaging, immersive, and even more fun in a group. Again at the end of the day each gamer is responsible for their own fun and if you're not having fun then find something that is engaging and immersive.

[lilathrone]

I hope you realize that OPS and FP's have stories and good ones too in my opinion. If you are a fan of story than I sincerely believe in my opinion that you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing these FP's OPS. Everyone should at least do all the FP's and OPS once for the story they are engaging, immersive, and even more fun in a group. Again at the end of the day each gamer is responsible for their own fun and if you're not having fun then find something that is engaging and immersive.

 

I do FP-s. I don't do OPS because I don't have a guild that does them and pugging them is like having an an*l inspection.

I'm having fun, else I wouldn't be subbed, I just don't understand this stu**d design choice that BW made with 4.0 with difficulty.

[squirrelballz]

I do FP-s. I don't do OPS because I don't have a guild that does them and pugging them is like having an an*l inspection.

I'm having fun, else I wouldn't be subbed, I just don't understand this stu**d design choice that BW made with 4.0 with difficulty.

 

Fair enough I think there are decent amount of folk who probably disagree with alot of the changes that have happened and I can accept that. I have alot of things I don't like in 4.0 but at the same time alot of good changes did happen in my opinion. Regardless I too find that my $15 is worth it and that the good in this game outweighs the bad. (I don't pay anything else as I like the grind and saving my cartel coins).

Edited April 23, 2016 by squirrelballz

[lilathrone]

Add in some harder challenges for those that seek them. It was that way for EQ, and its that way for WoW.

 

I have no idea how is WoW now, but back then in BC i died more times in the first 30 levels than here post 4.0 in 1000 playthroughs.

I only want to point out that there is a HUGE difference even between something being easy (WoW BC (?), ToR pre 4.0) and god mode.

[Bonzenaattori]

I agree that the game is easy. But to be perfectly honest with you. There wasn't really a significant part where the game was exactly difficult or hard. Especially in regards to the mundane stuff

I think it's because the game doesn't really have an overwhelming amount of brilliance like it used to... (u know in comparison to when your fresh and have no game knowledge yet)

[masterceil]

1) Did you beat the solo content before 4.0? If so, then the content wasn't too challenging for you. If you finished any of the class stories, you can't tell me that you need the game to be easier so you can get to the story content. In this case, you were getting through the story content just fine when the quests were harder

 

Yes, I did. Several times. The game wasn't particularly difficult pre-4.0 (though it had its moments - big droid in pubside Makeb chain comes to mind). It was just a lot more grindy than it is today. I never said that I couldn't complete in pre-4.0, just that I prefer the casual-friendly easy-mode they've got now.

 

2) Tying your hands behind your back to bring yourself down to an opponent's level isn't a real challenge. That's just patronizing and embarrassing an opponent. That's true in real life and in the game. A real challenge is when you're trying your absolute hardest and you still might lose.

 

You'd have a point here if you were talking about doing WZs naked, or in 224 gear. I'm pretty sure the Gormak hordes don't really feel emotion. And as I said, I'm not necessarily looking for a challenge. I could jog to work if I wanted to make it hard on myself, but I'll keep just taking my car or bike, thanks. My job really doesn't care how I get there : )

 

3) I'm not sure what you've been told about companions, but DPS and tanking modes are quite powerful. I used DPS Gault on Makeb today and he was landing 17K hits on enemies that had nowhere near that much HP. In its current state, the game almost plays itself. You can just walk into mobs with your character and companions can win the battle for you.

 

DPS companions can lay the smack down on a few mobs, sure, but eventually you actually have to stop and heal up. And if you get a particularly intense pull (like 2-3 clusters in a nice Heroic area), you actually could die before you and your companion can kill them all. DPS companions don't heal - at all. And like I said, you can still disable their strongest abilities.

[aeterno]

Leveling has always been easy.

 

It's just less tedious now.

[peter_plankskull]

I agree that the game is easy. But to be perfectly honest with you. There wasn't really a significant part where the game was exactly difficult or hard. Especially in regards to the mundane stuff

I think it's because the game doesn't really have an overwhelming amount of brilliance like it used to... (u know in comparison to when your fresh and have no game knowledge yet)

 

Their were some parts of the game that were hard, however they also gave the illusion they were hard. When you attack a elite or a chapter boss you usually only came out with a sliver of health, and sometimes even died, now you walk out with 90% health getting rid of that illusion. Also I was wearing nothing other than my starter clothes when I did the chapter end boss for the jedi knight, well... I used the light saber I got from the forge if that counts.

 

DPS companions can lay the smack down on a few mobs, sure, but eventually you actually have to stop and heal up. And if you get a particularly intense pull (like 2-3 clusters in a nice Heroic area), you actually could die before you and your companion can kill them all. DPS companions don't heal - at all. And like I said, you can still disable their strongest abilities.

Doing this doesn't make the game artificially harder or cause you to change your ways when you approach a situation, all it does is make it more tedious, unless your only doing a basic attack.

Edited April 23, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Taramayne]

As I understand it there was a vocal minority that complained when the companion bug was reverted, so you listened to these players and essentially re-applied the bug to allow solo players to steamroll through content.

.

 

There was no companion "bug" in the way you refer to it. The 4.0 companion BUFF was intended, then a nerf was applied due to player feedback, then partially reversed due to even GREATER player feedback, then tweaked again once more. BW seems to be satisfied with the current companion strength at this point.

 

Turns out that BW felt more people were happy with powerful companions than not, so they went with the perceived majority.

 

Also remember that veterans probably have a lot of legacy buffs to help them whereas new players do not. That MAY make some difference.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Taramayne

[peter_plankskull]

There was no companion "bug" in the way you refer to it. The 4.0 companion BUFF was intended, then a nerf was applied due to player feedback, then partially reversed due to even GREATER player feedback, then tweaked again once more. BW seems to be satisfied with the current companion strength at this point.

 

Turns out that BW felt more people were happy with powerful companions than not, so they went with the perceived majority.

 

While companions can no longer solo champions anymore, they can still solo elites, and I don't recall a single champion in the game other than makeb which you have to fight, so the game, as it is now, is automated.

[lilathrone]

So as I see, the majority of the player base think that this is perfectly fine:

 

 

Please someone confirm.

[DieAlteHexe]

Leveling has always been easy.

 

It's just less tedious now.

 

Precisely. Whilst there were a couple of classes where the final class quest gave me trouble (and don't judge their difficulty by that, I have a disability which mucks with my dexterity sometimes) it wasn't difficult, just draaaaaaawn out.

[Taramayne]

While companions can no longer solo champions anymore, they can still solo elites, and I don't recall a single champion in the game other than makeb which you have to fight, so the game, as it is now, is automated.

 

Perhaps it seems that way to you, but I'm sure it's not that way for everyone. Remember we have vastly different levels of ability out here.

 

My spouse also plays the game, and she definitely does not find it automated at all. I myself find it definitely easier since 4.0 but then I LIKE the way it is now. It's more fun and less tedious. But I speak only for myself.

[peter_plankskull]

So as I see, the majority of the player base think that this is perfectly fine:

 

 

Please someone confirm.

 

EDIT- I should of prob actually seen it all the way through before posting....

 

This is probably still my all time favorite video of 4.0 to show how OP companions use to be.

 

Edited April 23, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[peter_plankskull]

Perhaps it seems that way to you, but I'm sure it's not that way for everyone. Remember we have vastly different levels of ability out here.

 

My spouse also plays the game, and she definitely does not find it automated at all. I myself find it definitely easier since 4.0 but then I LIKE the way it is now. It's more fun and less tedious. But I speak only for myself.

 

The worst of the worst of skilled players can still complete the game due to how companions are in their current state, it doesn't take a different level of ability to complete the game anymore, just how long. I don't mind the trash being so easy to kill, but things like elites and maybe even a few strongs need to be somewhat of a challenge, especially end chapter bosses.

[Taramayne]

So as I see, the majority of the player base think that this is perfectly fine:

 

 

Please someone confirm.

 

This was right after the first companion buff when their healing was EXTREMELY strong. They're not quite as powerful now.

 

In any case while it may or may not be the "majority of the player base" as you assume, but at least enough of a majority as BIOWARE saw it that wanted stronger companions, hence the re-buff after the first change.