Offhealing in ranked

[DerSchneider]

Does someone feel ok about current ranked meta?

When team with more sorcs (and in some case operatives) has an advantage and if you remain alone vs sorc and any other class you can't do anything at all, because the 2v1 or 3v2 fight turns into healing spam.

Also dotspread. Let's see which specs have offhealing and dotspread, besides sorcs.

 

Lethality operative - joke. Dotspread is ridiculously hard and you don't have any serious cooldowns. I saw only one or two lethality operatives during this pre season.

I.O merc - very bad joke. Dotspread is divided into TWO separate abilities which don't fit in rotation and spec suffers from huge overheat. Offheals are almost nonexistant, because you are already overheating. I saw only one I.O. merc during pre season in ranked (he also played as lethality though).

Sorcs in their turn have good escapes, easy and powerful dotspread and spammable offheal (7-12k) + bubble (about 10-15k in one global).

Concealment ops are not such pain, because they don't have a dotspread. However they offheal with HoT's which also makes them incredibly powerful and put their team in advantage.

 

Something should be done with it. In case of sorcs I'd recommend simple offheal nerf - make it heal like merc's rapid scan - for 4-7k, not for 7-12. Sorcs will still compensate with easy force management. For operatives I'd recommend to make the following change:

Concealment: (Talent name): healing done by kolto probe is increased by 5(10)%, but you can no longer put probes on friendly targets. This way lethality will not be nerfed, and concealment will be forced become a pure dps spec.

Edited April 18, 2016 by DerSchneider

[JouerTue]

i'm not ok with the meta at all, but one sorc is manageable, while two are a total pain and a plain joke.

just put a cd on dark heal like any other heals capable spec has.

[Master-Nala]

i'm not ok with the meta at all, but one sorc is manageable, while two are a total pain and a plain joke.

just put a cd on dark heal like any other heals capable spec has.

 

Actually all heal capable DPS specs have no-cooldown heals.

 

Operatives - Kolto Probe and Diagnostic Scan

Mercenaries- Rapid Scan and Kolto Shot

Sorcerers - Dark Heal and Static Barrier (which has a lockout)

 

The DPS specs also have one other heal each with a cooldown:

 

Operatives - Kolto Infusion

Mercenaries - Emergency Scan

Sorcerers- Resurgence

Edited April 18, 2016 by Master-Nala

[alexsamma]

If you want to nerf sorc utility you have to buff their burst.

 

Sorcs are designed around the concept of out lasting you through sustain, they simply do not have the ability to run out and nuke someone like a merc/pt/gs/mara/jugg.

 

I've mainly been playing GS this season and it's annoying as hell to get paired up against any team that is stacked with off heals when you have none because they can simply whittle you down, but at the same time if they attempt to face me directly I can kill them/force them to barrier/stealth in just a few gcds.

 

In healer games I actually prefer to be on my mara/slinger/etc because I can push through heals much more effectively than a sorc, in healer-less games I prefer my sorc/scoundrel (haven't played merc since preseason) because I can dynamically swap between dps and support to fill in for weaknesses on my team.

 

FWIW I'll take sorcs over ops/scoundrels any day of the week, but I'm probably a bit biased from running gs/slinger.

 

Edit: In response to your suggestions would you also be in favor taking away taunts/gaurd from tank ac's, making pred only affect the person who used it, or remove sniper ballistic shield and make evasion only affect abilities targeted on the sniper?

Edited April 18, 2016 by alexsamma

[JouerTue]

Actually all heal capable DPS specs have no-cooldown heals.

 

Operatives - Kolto Probe and Diagnostic Scan

Mercenaries- Rapid Scan and Kolto Shot

Sorcerers - Dark Heal and Static Barrier (which has a lockout)

 

The DPS specs also have one other heal each with a cooldown:

 

Operatives - Kolto Infusion

Mercenaries - Emergency Scan

Sorcerers- Resurgence

 

kolto probe is hot and diagnostic is a lot weaker than dark heal

last time i played my commando, dps had advanced medical which had a cd..it must have changed, but anyway energy management and interupt protection are inferior

[alexsamma]

kolto probe is hot and diagnostic is a lot weaker than dark heal

last time i played my commando, dps had advanced medical which had a cd..it must have changed, but anyway energy management and interupt protection are inferior

 

Commandos have two abilities that give that interrupt immunity if you spec for it, frankly it's much easier to interrupt a sage/sorc than mando/merc.

[JouerTue]

but then why half the matches i lost there were 2 sorcs offhealing like mad? got mara rating rekt by that crap.

bring the guy low..PW

''..barrier

''..PW

same for the second sorc

after that they just start offhealing like mad..and i'm applying trauma and interupting on CD

 

just geared sorc and **** that

 

edit: also i don't see all those mercs offhealing..ops are decent at self healing but mercs..meh they die soooon

Edited April 18, 2016 by JouerTue

[foxmob]

• concealment off heals are the worst of the bunch, imo.
  
• lethality is probably the best in terms of pulling back and just healing
  
• mercs are pretty terrible off healers but better than concealment
  
• sorcs are the best of the bunch, largely because they can bubble. that's gigantic in all dps matches. otherwise, I think they're just pulling a lot of self heals and then there's rescue utility. the superior self healing combined with barrier and PW is infuriating to me looking at him cuz I can do none of that on a merc. I have to run and get yelled at by my teammates for doing no dmg and crap healing. but I don't think that's what we're talking about with off healing. that's just really crap balance (in yolo).
  

Edited April 18, 2016 by foxmob

[Master-Nala]

kolto probe is hot and diagnostic is a lot weaker than dark heal

last time i played my commando, dps had advanced medical which had a cd..it must have changed, but anyway energy management and interupt protection are inferior

 

See, that's a completely different issue. You said that Dark Heal should be given a cooldown because and let me quote you:

 

i'm not ok with the meta at all, but one sorc is manageable, while two are a total pain and a plain joke.

just put a cd on dark heal like any other heals capable spec has.

 

That's false. So I can only assume you have abandoned your reasoning and are now moving to the argument that Sorc off-healing is better.

 

That's a question of efficacy. That Kolto Probe is HoT tells us nothing other than its better for sustained recovery instead of burst healing. And yes Diagnostic is worse, it's also free and meant to be used as a energy recovery tool.

 

As for Commando's, they used to have AMP as their heal, people complained saying it was unfair that they didn't have a spammable heal. The devs listened and now medical probe is given instead. It's not bad for burst, it should be buffed to be as strong as Dark Heal.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Master-Nala

[Master-Nala]

[*]concealment off heals are the worst of the bunch, imo.

 

I would agree with that because of the complete lack of burst healing, but for true off-healing they can help if they realize they have to get the HoT on before their teammate is really close to dead.

 

lethality is probably the best in terms of pulling back and just healing

 

There is no doubt here. But then the spec is terrible for PvP so....

 

mercs are pretty terrible off healers but better than concealment

 

sorcs are the best of the bunch, largely because they can bubble. that's gigantic in all dps matches. otherwise, I think they're just pulling a lot of self heals and then there's rescue utility. the superior self healing combined with barrier and PW is infuriating to me looking at him cuz I can do none of that on a merc. I have to run and get yelled at by my teammates for doing no dmg and crap healing. but I don't think that's what we're talking about with off healing. that's just really crap balance (in yolo).

 

This is true for the most part, but only because Sorc can use bubble to give them time to cast their other heals. Most of the healing you see at the end is Sorc self-healing.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Master-Nala

[SgtGrumbles]

dont underestimate a good lethality operative. it can seriously troll a good team out of killing an unguarded target with a well timed kolto infusion, and can put serious pressure on a sorc healer with its anti-kiting tools.

[Hyperionjr]

Either way the mechanics are screwed. You should be able to play any class you want in ranked and be a contender (to the best of your ability). I think it's stupid that if I want to play ranked and contend, I need to get on one of the ranked pvp class/ specs or get globalled in the first 10-15 secs of the match. Unless they bring back 8v8 objective ranked, you'll continue to have 4 viable specs out of all the classes in every match. It's been this way since 4v4 started.

[MusicRider]

Either way the mechanics are screwed. You should be able to play any class you want in ranked and be a contender (to the best of your ability). I think it's stupid that if I want to play ranked and contend, I need to get on one of the ranked pvp class/ specs or get globalled in the first 10-15 secs of the match. Unless they bring back 8v8 objective ranked, you'll continue to have 4 viable specs out of all the classes in every match. It's been this way since 4v4 started.

 

For dps you mean 7/8. Only mercs do not work in most compositions.

[Lalainnia]

All sorcs mandos and ops with literally just mandos having a significant difference specs because they're able to reduce the cast time and increase the power of medical probe by 100%.

 

The only actual prob wrong is dark heal heals for to much and costs to little force in the dps specs one of the 2 needs to be changed.

 

 

Another major thing is a great deal of ppl don't know what and when to apply trauma slingers and sents have it along with each tank ac that can aoe spread it with lower duration compared to slingers and sents, I'm not actually sure if slinge/sent trauma stacks with tank ac trauma someone should test that.

 

Even the intended purpose shows in the dps specs of what healing was suppose to be like for those 3 acs.

 

Dark heal resurgence and static barrier are meant to be middle of the table. Dark heal has no cd decent force cost, resurgence small hot and static barrier fake hp absorb.

 

 

Merc mostly gunnery as IQs insta cast is a joke. Arsenals tracer lock makes it so each time a stack is gained 2 stacks for each tracer fired it reduces activation time and increases healing of next rapid scan by 20% at 5 its instant. This is intended to give the option to be defensive and bursty have seen 16k heals from this without giving up raw dps potential like IQ. Then they have emergency scan which is a nice insta cast burst heal if it crits similar to sages force mend just that it can be used on friendly players which is a big deal. Lastly crap tier kolto shot but its a thing.

 

Operatives were meant to be higher sustain then the other 2 in the off healing department its why they gave all specs the beloved probes. Between probes and Kolto infusion it gives them more up time to actually spend gcds killing someone as the heals are very passive once applied. they also have diagnostic can crap tier as well, but its a thing. The only difference between leth and concealment in off healing is that leth can make it instant cast after rolling the actual healing % is not stronger compared to arsenal mercs and IQ mercs.

[SgtGrumbles]

come back to jung ma donna!

[JouerTue]

As for Commando's used to have AMP as their heal, people complained saying it was unfair that they didn't have a spammable heal. The devs listened and now medical probe is given instead. It's not bad for burst, it should be buffed to be as strong as Dark Heal.

 

i didn't know they changed it..last time i used mine it was 3.x.. that case i agree with your statement that i quoted.

[Opaknack]

Take a look at the soloqueue leaderboard.

Positon 1 - 11 = 6 sorcs/sages

The group leaderboard it's similar.

And in the most random bgs sages/sorcs are the nr.1 damage dealer and obvious also the nr.1 heals.

 

Any other questions?

Or any other suggestions to buff this monkey class?

 

No other class has 2 skills to escape and (!!!) heal to full.

Other classes have not even one.

No other class has NO ressource management. This is also the reason because sage/sorc is the best offhealing dd.

No other class it's so easy to play.

 

I don't care if this class would be deleted forever or nerfed to become almost useless.

 

Had i ever sayd that i hate sages and sorcs?

That's why i try to kill everyone of them.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Opaknack

[Master-Nala]

I don't care if this class would be deleted forever or nerfed to become almost useless.

 

Had i ever sayd that i hate sages and sorcs?

That's why i try to kill everyone of them.

 

Did that rant make you feel better?

[foxmob]

Did that rant make you feel better?

 

he's not wrong. it's complete BS that they can tank, escape, and heal better than any comparable dps (ranged or off heal capable). there's no identity anymore. you can't have a 60m escape and an 8s focus swap and the best self heals. I mean...what were the devs thinking???

 

also, is there some taboo against explaining the rationale for classes? I understand the "fun" of exploring a spec and coming up with a way to maximize it, but what's the overall play for sorc dps? and how does each ability work toward that play? because it really does seem crazy that they are the sturdiest, most mobile and also have the best escapes of all the ranged.

[Master-Nala]

he's not wrong. it's complete BS that they can tank, escape, and heal better than any comparable dps (ranged or off heal capable). there's no identity anymore. you can't have a 60m escape and an 8s focus swap and the best self heals. I mean...what were the devs thinking???

 

Honestly they were probably looking at the surfeit of terrible Sorcs out there. Phase Walk, I got nothing, I don't think the class needed that. I'm perfectly fine with that being replaced. But it has to be something comparable to other 61 powers.

 

also, is there some taboo against explaining the rationale for classes? I understand the "fun" of exploring a spec and coming up with a way to maximize it, but what's the overall play for sorc dps? and how does each ability work toward that play? because it really does seem crazy that they are the sturdiest, most mobile and also have the best escapes of all the ranged.

 

Here's my thoughts on that. The rationale for all three specs is that Sorcs are intended to be the best multi-target attackers (or healers) and the worst ST attackers (and healers) in the game. And for the most part that's true for DPS. It's ludicrously untrue for healers, but that's another whole conversation. Sorcs put out a ton of damage but most of it is AoE through DoT spec or directly applied. The ST abilities are significantly weaker than other classes.

 

For example, I always get a giggle when I play my Scrapper Scoundrel and see his spammable (sorta) sucker punch do as much damage as Turbulence/Thundering Blast. Really pitiful that Lightning's big gun is easily beat by something Concealment is intended to use as much as possible. And I always love those 20K+ heatseekers. There has to be a compensation for that because the pressure created by Sorcs has a hard time beating burst. So what is that compensation. Well, Sorcs can outlast just about anyone. They can heal, run, teleport and bubble but they can't kill you quickly.

 

Seriously, who here can honestly say that a Sorc can take them down in less than 6-7 GCD at a bare minimum. And that's if all your cooldowns are down. Sorcs are annoying, because you have try and kill them in that window between Barriers. Now I'll admit that Phase Walk makes that much harder than it used to be and as I said, I'm not going to complain if it changed.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Master-Nala

[JouerTue]

corruption is ridicoulous..when you put pressure on a healer he shouldn't be able to have the output on other toons, sorc have with their smart heal, 15k crits on other and self while tunneled by 2-3 dps? plus insta aoe, but whatever.

 

about dps off-heals..one is fine since the pushback/interupts will mitigate the fact that they have no energy managment and dark heal is really strong..recklessness and you have 2 >10k easily. two sorcs cross-off-healing is a real pain, also if you take in consideration that they'll PW and they can still cheese acid.

[foxmob]

<snip>.

I lean toward a more jaded, less elaborate point of view: they did stuff that didn't work. so they did other stuff that did work, but they left the original stuff in there, so now the sorcs can double down on w/e game style you wanna play.

 

more of an aside cuz I'm not arguing nerf dmg, but...single target, dem dots hurt man. I found it funny that I was left alone after being dotted up, and I couldn't out heal the dots on me...just being left alone to spam cast heals on myself.

[Master-Nala]

I lean toward a more jaded, less elaborate point of view: they did stuff that didn't work. so they did other stuff that did work, but they left the original stuff in there, so now the sorcs can double down on w/e game style you wanna play.

 

more of an aside cuz I'm not arguing nerf dmg, but...single target, dem dots hurt man. I found it funny that I was left alone after being dotted up, and I couldn't out heal the dots on me...just being left alone to spam cast heals on myself.

 

DoTs hurt sure...but slowly. Creeping Terror does about as much damage as rail shot (before procs and such are applied) but it does it over 18 seconds with 1/6 of the damage coming every 3 seconds. If you're already hurt and all the DoTs are on you, it can be tough to heal through, but you have a hell of a lot more time to react than you do when getting shot in the face with Energy Burst or Raging Burst.

[alexsamma]

One thing that would help a lot is if they made it easier to get out of combat, with the current system even when you successfully disengage from combat it can takes ages to actually leave combat to heal yourself.

[MusicRider]

Dark heal was buffed at some point making it OP then, then nerfed back down. All needed is increase its force cost baseline, especially when not self-healing (decrease it in healing trees) and problem solved.

 

Regarding the rest of the complains, unless you are a merc, a healer other than sorc and possibly shadow tank stop whining and learn how to maximize your class role, and even then there will be losses that you could do nothing about them. Only a sorc healer is capable of carrying in arenas and that's vs a team of not that good players.

Edited April 20, 2016 by MusicRider