Jedi Kidnappers

[Audoucet]

no better they're both evil ^^(Jedi kidnappers and Sith's Killers)

 

I still don't buy the kidnappers thing. But let's assume it is the case, if you get Ebola in real life, you will not, be authorised to continue to wonder around. For obvious reasons. I do believe that in the Star Wars universe, IF, the Jedi take custody of those children, it's merely for their own protection and the protection of others, because a Force Sensitive child, he is obviously very vulnerable to the Dark Side. Let's not forget that these children can leave anyway later, a lot of Jedi go away.

 

So if, and again it's a big IF, Jedi take custody of Force Sensitive, I would argue that it's more akin to our modern occidental obligation of education, than a full-on kidnapping.

[MadDutchman]

Except the parents, the primary caregiver and educator of any child, has no choice on the matter. That is wrong.

 

Removing a child from a loving family, never to be seen again, to be brainwashed in an ideology, again with no consent of the parents, would NEVER be allowed in any open and fair society.

 

 

This was actually tried in Canada many years ago with the native population. The children were largely separated from their parents and taken to Residential Schools, run jointly between the government and the Catholic and Anglican Churches, with the purpose of forcibly assimilating them. In short, they were a disaster, leaving families and communities splintered, the repercussions of this are still being felt to this day. This is a cautionary tale of what happens with forced education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system

 

Sure, the Jedi Order may be portrayed as highly benevolent, with universally wise and caring teachers (as if that were possible...), however it does not change the facts of the goals of the Jedi.

[Audoucet]

Yeah well, however loving and caring are you, if you child gets Ebola, you won't keep him. We are talking about children with a specific health condition.

[MadDutchman]

Yeah well, however loving and caring are you, if you child gets Ebola, you won't keep him. We are talking about children with a specific health condition.

 

When the child gets Ebola, you take them to the hospital. You sit by their side at nearly all times to comfort said child (taking precautions to avoid spread of the virus). What kind of parent would just abandon them?

[SerraShar]

being force sensitive is a health condition now ?

 

The way I see it , is that being force sensitive is like being..hum....a mutant (like x-men) . It mean you have powers and with those powers come responsability .

 

Hence the ''Jedi are the only one who can teach you how to use those powers'' .

 

I do frown on the whole ''You cant keep Tabs on your kid once removed , and kids cant connect/contact said Parent'' . Especially since once they are joined to the orders , if there is an attack by Sith...young Padawan are sent to the battle and their life is short .

 

I don't believe the Jedi order is made of Saint . Just like I don't think the Ideals of the Sith is about Strengh (but rotten to the core) . I think both side are broken and with many flaws and both can go to the extrem without a second though . They are..in a way , a reflection of those who are not force sensitive yet hold alot of powers over the commun peoples .

[LordXantor]

I still don't buy the kidnappers thing. But let's assume it is the case, if you get Ebola in real life, you will not, be authorised to continue to wonder around. For obvious reasons. I do believe that in the Star Wars universe, IF, the Jedi take custody of those children, it's merely for their own protection and the protection of others, because a Force Sensitive child, he is obviously very vulnerable to the Dark Side. Let's not forget that these children can leave anyway later, a lot of Jedi go away.

 

So if, and again it's a big IF, Jedi take custody of Force Sensitive, I would argue that it's more akin to our modern occidental obligation of education, than a full-on kidnapping.

 

They take that kids even when parents didn't want that, and talking about protection it's Jedi propaganda, simply look at anakin he didn't hurt anyone before jedi training, and probably is more similar examples from behind republic jurisdiction. And i didn't remember much jedi witch one going away from order (they didn't know different life) ,i don't mention new jedi order afrer ROTJ because that was a lot of more liberal and i can say about them they're good.

 

And it's no akin to modern education more like to pressureing to putting at adoption (parents didn't have contact with child and when they even get it what is very hard to achieve they're for them like strange person).

[casirabit]

Sorry, you cannot use a health condition (Ebola) and use that as an excuse for the Jedi to take a child without permission. If the parent consents then fine that is very different but if a parent says no then it should stop there. Yes there is a chance the child will go to the darkside but that is a chance no matter what.

 

What about children that are born with force sensitive parent or parents that have left the order for reasons but yet are still in the republic. Can we honestly agree that the order will do better in raising them then their own parents. I don't think so.

 

This cutting them off completely from seeing them or being a part of their lives doesn't sit well with me and never has.

[Audoucet]

They take that kids even when parents didn't want that, and talking about protection it's Jedi propaganda, simply look at anakin he didn't hurt anyone before jedi training, and probably is more similar examples from behind republic jurisdiction. And i didn't remember much jedi witch one going away from order (they didn't know different life) ,i don't mention new jedi order afrer ROTJ because that was a lot of more liberal and i can say about them they're good.

 

Dooku. Asohka. Anakin thought about it.

[Audoucet]

By the way. it doesn't seem to be a current situation. The world of Bardotta doesn't trust Jedi, because of kidnappings, but it seems to be something about "a long time ago". There is no Bardottan Jedi anymore, so obviously, they are not taken by force.

[LordXantor]

Dooku. Asohka. Anakin thought about it.

 

hah i forget about Ashoka but when i write that post i remember Aura 0_o, and i didn't think in that way about Anakin, but Ashoka was only Padawan and when he leave order she was more dangerous then before joining.

 

By the way. it doesn't seem to be a current situation. The world of Bardotta doesn't trust Jedi, because of kidnappings, but it seems to be something about "a long time ago". There is no Bardottan Jedi anymore, so obviously, they are not taken by force.

 

because Bradotan atack Jedi when they arrive?

Edited April 18, 2016 by LordXantor

[Audoucet]

because Bradotan atack Jedi when they arrive?

 

It really doesn't look like they have any kind of possibility to do that.

 

About Asohka, well the fact is, they did their best to protect her from the Dark Side, and when she decided to leave, she could.

[PowerJediRanger]

Wouldn't surprise me if there were some Jedi that took children away by force and that is maybe the reason they are getting called kidnappers.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Jedi don't kidnap, they aren't kidnappers, they have legal authority to take the children by Republic law.

 

Not saying it's right, but the term kidnapper implies they just take the children illegally, they don't.

 

At any rate, yeah it's bad....but what's also bad is the child growing up, unable to control their emotions, being outcasted and then said child kills their parents in a fit of telekinetic rage or mind **** them and takes over whatever planet they are on.

[LordXantor]

It really doesn't look like they have any kind of possibility to do that.

 

because Jedi after much tryes let them alone?

 

Jedi don't kidnap, they aren't kidnappers, they have legal authority to take the children by Republic law.

 

Not saying it's right, but the term kidnapper implies they just take the children illegally, they don't.

 

At any rate, yeah it's bad....but what's also bad is the child growing up, unable to control their emotions, being outcasted and then said child kills their parents in a fit of telekinetic rage or mind **** them and takes over whatever planet they are on.

 

A lot of force sensitive children didn't hurt anyone even that powerfull like Anakin, and yea on republic territory law allow it but taking child without perrmision is still kidnap that law record only protect Jedi from consequences.

[Wolfninjajedi]

because Jedi after much tryes let them alone?

 

 

 

A lot of force sensitive children didn't hurt anyone even that powerfull like Anakin, and yea on republic territory law allow it but taking child without perrmision is still kidnap that law record only protect Jedi from consequences.

 

Couple of things wrong with using Anakin as an example.

 

1. Anakin had a loving mother

 

2. Anakin had friends

 

3. Anakin didn't display anything powerful as far as TK or anything, he was only 9/10 and then later found by the Jedi.

 

If he continued to stay on Tatooine, who knows what would have happened, at some point something could have happened to his mother(like getting attacked by Sand People) and he could have literally snapped with unchecked power and start destroying everything around him.

 

Maybe at some point older in life, he just gets mad at someone for hurting a friend of his and just dominates them with TK or mind **** the guy.

 

Anakin would then become labeled as a freak of nature and shunned by everyone save for his mother, but at this point his emotions could be in such turmoill and his immense power unchecked, he could end up killing her too.

 

Then with his hate fueling him, he could just end up dominating all of Tatooine and become the ruler of it, much like other Force Users have done who hadn't been found by the Jedi.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[MadDutchman]

Couple of things wrong with using Anakin as an example.

 

1. Anakin had a loving mother

 

2. Anakin had friends

 

3. Anakin didn't display anything powerful as far as TK or anything, he was only 9/10 and then later found by the Jedi.

 

If he continued to stay on Tatooine, who knows what would have happened, at some point something could have happened to his mother(like getting attacked by Sand People) and he could have literally snapped with unchecked power and start destroying everything around him.

 

Maybe at some point older in life, he just gets mad at someone for hurting a friend of his and just dominates them with TK or mind **** the guy.

 

Anakin would then become labeled as a freak of nature and shunned by everyone save for his mother, but at this point his emotions could be in such turmoill and his immense power unchecked, he could end up killing her too.

 

Then with his hate fueling him, he could just end up dominating all of Tatooine and become the ruler of it, much like other Force Users have done who hadn't been found by the Jedi.

 

And this theory is based on... what exactly?

 

You seem to be assuming just because someone has Force Powers they automatically have psychotic tendencies, when there is no evidence at all to support that theory.

 

Many people, regardless of ability, can go into mindless rages when pushed beyond their limits. Many of those people are physically dangerous enough to kill those around them. Of course, this happens very rarely, because people and circumstances just don't work like that. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they will.

[Wolfninjajedi]

And this theory is based on... what exactly?

 

You seem to be assuming just because someone has Force Powers they automatically have psychotic tendencies, when there is no evidence at all to support that theory.

 

Many people, regardless of ability, can go into mindless rages when pushed beyond their limits. Many of those people are physically dangerous enough to kill those around them. Of course, this happens very rarely, because people and circumstances just don't work like that. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they will.

 

I'm not assuming anything, just what could happen and Anakin isn't exactly a person of sound/sane mind as he slaughtered an entire tribe of Sand People because they tortured his mother to death and this was with Jedi training.

 

I never said all of them have psycho tendencies, I was merely saying what could happen and given Anakin's mindset even at an early age, he wasn't all there to begin with.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[MadDutchman]

I'm not assuming anything, just what could happen and Anakin isn't exactly a person of sound/sane mind as he slaughtered an entire tribe of Sand People because they tortured his mother to death and this was with Jedi training.

 

I never said all of them have psycho tendencies, I was merely saying what could happen and given Anakin's mindset even at an early age, he wasn't all there to begin with.

 

That's what I mean though, anything "could" happen. Hitler happened. Stalin happened. Evil and the abuse of power has nothing to do with the Force

[Wolfninjajedi]

That's what I mean though, anything "could" happen. Hitler happened. Stalin happened. Evil and the abuse of power has nothing to do with the Force

 

Right and I was just going off of one possibility of what could have happened.

[dcaleb]

It really doesn't look like they have any kind of possibility to do that.

 

About Asohka, well the fact is, they did their best to protect her from the Dark Side, and when she decided to leave, she could.

 

Ashoka didn't leave, she was expelled and turned down their 'generous' offer to be reinstated with a shiny promotion after they threw her under the bus when she was being framed for a crime.

[LordXantor]

Couple of things wrong with using Anakin as an example.

 

1. Anakin had a loving mother

 

2. Anakin had friends

 

3. Anakin didn't display anything powerful as far as TK or anything, he was only 9/10 and then later found by the Jedi.

 

1. not only Anakin

2. again why force sensitive can't have loving mothers and friends? 0_o

3. but he had the greatest connection with the force in history

 

And for his future is a lot of more possible that he will become player in speeder races, pilot or mechanic that things he like to the end ad he was good in that

 

and when u didn't like Anakin example u have Luke he didn't hurt anyone to ^^

 

I'm not assuming anything, just what could happen and Anakin isn't exactly a person of sound/sane mind as he slaughtered an entire tribe of Sand People because they tortured his mother to death and this was with Jedi training.

 

U know on Tatooine everyone think about sand people like about animals with guns, and he do it because he can (thanks to Jedi training), and he was the same person but quite angry and he must take one anger's on something.

Edited April 19, 2016 by LordXantor

[JediAkemi]

Without training, it is supposed to be incredibly difficult to use the Force except in passive ways (precognition, improved endurance, reactions, and senses)... or at least it was once upon a time.

Luke and Anakin had "impossible" piloting skill, and aim in Luke's case. Nothing else.

There may be examples from the expanded universe (either version) of Force Sensitive infants manifesting active powers before the Jedi find them, but conventional wisdom has it that without training, no-one should be able to have active powers (by which I primarily mean telekinesis).

 

In the overwhelming majority of cases, a Force Sensitive infant is given to the Jedi by their parent or guardian. No-one is talking about whether any of them are Mind Tricked into doing it though.

What is meant to happen is that a Jedi shows up, tests the baby's blood, and gives the parent/s the whole "Your child could be a Jedi some day. Let me take them for training" and the parent/s think about it for a little while before deciding yes or no.

If the parents say no, the Jedi are supposed to abide by that decision.

[LordXantor]

Without training, it is supposed to be incredibly difficult to use the Force except in passive ways (precognition, improved endurance, reactions, and senses)... or at least it was once upon a time.

Luke and Anakin had "impossible" piloting skill, and aim in Luke's case. Nothing else.

There may be examples from the expanded universe (either version) of Force Sensitive infants manifesting active powers before the Jedi find them, but conventional wisdom has it that without training, no-one should be able to have active powers (by which I primarily mean telekinesis).

 

In the overwhelming majority of cases, a Force Sensitive infant is given to the Jedi by their parent or guardian. No-one is talking about whether any of them are Mind Tricked into doing it though.

What is meant to happen is that a Jedi shows up, tests the baby's blood, and gives the parent/s the whole "Your child could be a Jedi some day. Let me take them for training" and the parent/s think about it for a little while before deciding yes or no.

If the parents say no, the Jedi are supposed to abide by that decision.

 

When u mention EU, i must say that in EU was records of throwing stones into returning Jedi because they want take baby when parents disagree.

Edited April 19, 2016 by LordXantor

[casirabit]

Yes Jedi were supposed to abide by that decision but there was an Division that gave the Jedi the right to take a child whether the parents agreed or not and that is where I draw the line. When someone says no it is no.

 

The Acquisition Division of the Jedi Order was responsible for taking Force-sensitive children to the Jedi Temple to become Jedi. Jedi recruiters of the Acquisition Division dealt closely with the Galactic Republic in their pursuit of new members. On all Republic worlds, newborns were subject to mandatory blood-testing to detect the concentration of Midi-chlorians in a sample. If results were returned with a high percentage, the sample was forwarded to the Temple on Coruscant for recording in the Division's database, known as the Kyber memory crystal.

 

Recruiters were tasked with using the information in the Kyber crystal to seek out and recruit those infants who showed potential, taking them from their families or guardians. While the Jedi did seek permission from the birth parents as to whether the child might be raised in the Order, the Jedi were given legal authority to take custody of any and all Force-sensitives. If a potential Force-user was identified in later stages of development, a positive test result might not have been definitive in judging their potential to become a Jedi. Special equipment was used in testing their perception and preternatural abilities, such as the testing screen.

 

Recruiter An'ya Kuro was responsible for the recruitment of future High Council member Ki-Adi-Mundi at the late age of four, while the nine year old Anakin Skywalker was discovered by non-Recruiter Qui-Gon Jinn on distant Tatooine. Roan Shryne, discovered by a recruiter and taken to the Temple at the age of three, was later offered a post in the Acquisition Division, but turned it down.

 

An'ya Kuro once worked as an agent for the division. Master Bolla Ropal was of unknown membership status, but it was he who guarded the Kyber crystal.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Acquisition_Division

 

I also do not agree with the Sith method either.

Edited April 19, 2016 by casirabit

[JediAkemi]

I don't want to split hairs, and I doubt the specific law is conveniently written anywhere that we can see it, but my first instinct is that "Jedi have the right to take Force-Sensitive children into their custody" means that if the parents agree, the Jedi Order become legally responsible for the child.

If that is how it works, and they abide by the parents' decision, then all should be well.

 

If that law means that the Jedi can ignore the parents' wishes and take the kids anyway, then yeah, I'd be sickened by it too. Jorus C'baoth does that aboard Outbound Flight, and it is quite rightly presented as unreasonable, heavy-handed, and a hint to Obi-Wan that Jorus might be leaning towards the Dark Side.

Obi-Wan argues that if the parents say no, it should mean no.