which is the better back stabber?

[LordLojak]

im normally a healer sorc when i pvp as ive always been a career healer but every now and again the planets align and i feel the need to be a sneaky little backstabber

 

so i ask this question:

 

between the concealment op and the deception sin, which 1 has the better burst?

 

ive been told sins do but Ops have more utility and crazy survivability

[Volthammer]

They are both good, but speaking as someone who mains a Con-Op the burst from lows through mids is nothing short of crazy. You will, of course, be strongest coming straight out of stealth. If you get the drop on someone, and I'm serious, you can reduce them to 25% health with little trouble in about 3 or 4 strikes.

 

They aren't as awe inspiring in 65's, damage wise.

[jauvtus]

Both Concealment and Deception have mediocre burst. Best players no they arent the ones you need to be afraid of.

Rather beware Fury and Carnage maras, Rage juggs, Arsenal mercs and AP PTs. These classes put out real burst, conc and dec are just annoying.

[NikSunrider]

Both Concealment and Deception have mediocre burst. Best players no they arent the ones you need to be afraid of.

Rather beware Fury and Carnage maras, Rage juggs, Arsenal mercs and AP PTs. These classes put out real burst, conc and dec are just annoying.

 

I can agree with this, in so far as a warzone/arena is concerned.

 

Sin/Op are good duelists due to the fact that they have stealth and really nice control that they can apply over and over. In a warzone, where everyone is breaking mezzes and applying useless hardstuns to whitebarred targets, their advantage is significantly reduced.

 

And I mean significantly.

 

If you are guarding a node / transferring between nodes, you might be outta luck with a deception sin / conc op on you. In the middle of the frey? Lol, just kite them into your own VG's line of fire and they will run screaming.

 

Scoundrel, imo, has slightly more utility thanks to selfheal, while Infiltration has slightly more burst. But that's so far as duels are concerned.

[jauvtus]

Yeah, but OP is a healer, those rarely duel

Ofc in duel, operatives usually win. That's actually their only in their "pro" column.

[Volxen]

im normally a healer sorc when i pvp as ive always been a career healer but every now and again the planets align and i feel the need to be a sneaky little backstabber

 

so i ask this question:

 

between the concealment op and the deception sin, which 1 has the better burst?

 

ive been told sins do but Ops have more utility and crazy survivability

 

Are you primarily interested just in DPS, or are you interested in things like sap capping and ninjaing nodes? I've been playing both lately, and I definitely think Assassin (Shadow) is the better class for that. Primarily for two reasons: 1) 30m instant cast whirlwind and 2) Phasewalk. Although if you wanted to play the tank spec instead of deception, you include the pull in that list as well.

 

Let's say you're playing Alderaan or Hypergates, and there is only one non-stealther guarding the node. Maybe it's, say, a merc. But he's smart enough to not stand right on top of the node -- let's say he is positioned exactly 30m away from the node. Here is what you do to win (note this works better against some classes than others):

 

1) Place your phasewalk right by the node, but make sure you place it such that he can't see it.

 

2) Walk up to him in stealth, and mez him from stealth.

 

3) Phasewalk back to the node.

 

4) Start capping the node.

 

5) At this point he MUST use his CC breaker to stop you from capping.

 

6) As soon as he uses his CC breaker, immediately whirlwind him (you shouldn't even need to move to do this).

 

7) Start capping the node again. At this point he can't do anything, as he has blown his CC breaker.

 

This is a really good strategy that works quite often in regs, but some classes are better at dealing with this than others. For example, PT's can use shoulder cannon while stunned, and sorc's have two CC breakers with force barrier. A sniper could try to deploy entrench right after he breaks the first CC, preventing you from CCing him again.

 

But my point is that it's harder to sap cap as an operative, due to the fact that you don't have a 30m mez, and rolling back to the node is not as fast and reliable as phase walking is. So in the scenario above, as an operative you might sap the guy from stealth, and roll back to the node and start capping. But once he uses his CC breaker, he's still going to be 30m away from you. You now have to get within 10m of him again to use flashbang, but if he's smart he's going to try to kite you like crazy (and if he's smart he has already called for help the moment you first sapped him from stealth). And even when you do finally get within 10m of him and can flashbang, you're still going to have to roll back to the node and start capping, which takes time. Which won't even work on Alderaan, since it takes a full 8 seconds to cap (the CC/mez wears off after 8 seconds, and remember it takes time to roll back to the node), and it would still be hard to pull off on Hypergates as well (it takes only 6 seconds to cap on Hypergates).

 

So if you are primarily interested in sap capping, I would recommend Assassin over operative, as there are lots of games where one non-stealther will be solo guarding the node (possibly because no one else on their team is willing to do so). But it also seems like people in regs are slowly starting to catch on to the fact that it's better to guard the node from 30m away, which is why the Assassin is overall the best at sap capping.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Volxen

[-Bob-]

who is the better back stabber?

 

Thats a toss up, both EA and Bee Dubya are pretty shady.

[Monterone]

Both Concealment and Deception have mediocre burst. Best players no they arent the ones you need to be afraid of.

Rather beware Fury and Carnage maras, Rage juggs, Arsenal mercs and AP PTs. These classes put out real burst, conc and dec are just annoying.

 

This is a very accurate statement. If you want burst don't go with a stealth class, they've both been butchered.

[Romeugues]

Ops.

Nerf Ops.

[LordLojak]

well since it seems the 2 classes i had my eye on are lack luster i guess i get to find a new 1

 

 

ok so what about a veng jugg or a carnage mara? guess i could try a sniper as well

but i suppose what im lookin for is a class that i can go pound on people when i get tired of the other team winning the game of ""hunt the healer"

[jauvtus]

well since it seems the 2 classes i had my eye on are lack luster i guess i get to find a new 1

 

 

ok so what about a veng jugg or a carnage mara? guess i could try a sniper as well

but i suppose what im lookin for is a class that i can go pound on people when i get tired of the other team winning the game of ""hunt the healer"

 

Veng is good but Rage is better. Rage is better but Immortal is immortal. (I mean it)

Carnage mara has highest burst in game, but also hardest to perform its burst window (easy to shut down, but if they dont/cant shut it down...). Fury is almost as good and much easier to perform and has built-in CC immunity.

As you could see I didnt list MM sniper as a good burst class, and as sad it is, I had my reasons for that :/

Also you can take AP PT and watch everything blow up in your vision field.

Edited April 17, 2016 by jauvtus

[AlrikFassbauer]

As you could see I didnt list MM sniper as a good burst class, and as sad it is, I had my reasons for that :/

 

That it isn't appearing often in the Leaderboards might have its reasons as well.

[LordLojak]

so is a merc finally in a good place?

 

i remember they were a joke for a long while

[Gyronamics]

Let's say you're playing Alderaan or Hypergates, and there is only one non-stealther guarding the node. Maybe it's, say, a merc. But he's smart enough to not stand right on top of the node -- let's say he is positioned exactly 30m away from the node. Here is what you do to win (note this works better against some classes than others):

 

1) Place your phasewalk right by the node, but make sure you place it such that he can't see it.

 

2) Walk up to him in stealth, and mez him from stealth.

 

3) Phasewalk back to the node.

 

4) Start capping the node.

 

5) At this point he MUST use his CC breaker to stop you from capping.

 

6) As soon as he uses his CC breaker, immediately whirlwind him (you shouldn't even need to move to do this).

 

7) Start capping the node again. At this point you realise he threw an explosive dart on cc break.

 

That awkward moment when a merc guarding knows his ****.

[Ruhun]

so is a merc finally in a good place?

 

i remember they were a joke for a long while

 

Not really.

They have good damage/burst, but good luck surviving under pressure.

[Lhancelot]

so is a merc finally in a good place?

 

i remember they were a joke for a long while

 

They can be fun in 8v8s.

 

In 4v4s they have significant disadvantages and are typically more of a burden than a boost, particularly when on a team that lacks strong support to keep them alive.

[Volxen]

That awkward moment when a merc guarding knows his ****.

 

Yes, but if you catch the merc doing that you can always use resilience (force shorud) to cleanse the dot, followed immediately by an instant lift (whirlwind).

 

In theory, if both players know what they are doing, the shadow/assassin should always win the engagement (as in, successfully cap) against the commando/mercenary.