Things in Chapter XII that don't make any sense...

[peter_plankskull]

I like to try things like this. I managed to get a BH to 61 using only the first 2 skills - Rapid Shots and Missile Blast - just for the hell of it. Never visited a trainer and never picked an AC. Have to admit it was pretty boring, and I gave up at 61, cause it was clear I was easily going to do it, but it was getting really boring.

 

Other side projects include - not leaving the starter planet (did FP's, WZ's and the Hutta Heroics), levelling without a companion (heroics got a little hairy at the top end, but still no real fear of dying), numerous speed runs (Gunslinger is still the fastest with a little over 12 hours to cap), levelling without changing gear from beginner (as soon as you get level-synched, you're fine).....people who complain about there not being enough content just have no imagination.

 

All of those things you mentioned don't depend on skill, but only artificially increasing the grind to make it more tedious. Yes... killing enemies at one XP from 1 to 65 will get you to 65 eventually, but that doesn't mean its hard or skillful, it just simply makes it more tedious. I prefer things to test my skills rather than seeing how much I need to grind.

[CrazyCT]

And some people juggle geese

 

Each to their own.

[Unperson]

Hey, I actually watched a guy spend about 15 minutes on an elite "playing with one finger". If that's your thing, go for it, just don't come here raging when I clear content you're "playing" with. I have better things to do than sit around waiting for a guy that thinks he's proving a point by taking 15 times longer to clear something than is required.

 

See, that's the thing. You're not actually clearing content. You're watching content clear itself. That's not how a game works because whether or not you do anything, you will "win" regardless. If you have better things to do... go do them. Oh, right, you meant posting off-base replies to points nobody had made, gotcha.

 

BTW, that's a champion, champ, not an elite.

[Max_Killjoy]

I never learn these things about what a companion can do to content or what just spamming one attack can do to content... because I'm to busy having fun clearing the content with my character and all their various skills and gear and powers.

[peter_plankskull]

I never learn these things about what a companion can do to content or what just spamming one attack can do to content... because I'm to busy having fun clearing the content with my character and all their various skills and gear and powers.

 

Because knowing you can get through the onslaught just spamming a single attack devoids you of that rush moment were you need to focus and hone your skills. Instead of taking time to analyze the situation or think differently about how to approach a different enemy, you can just jump in and go 111111, either way, the enemy is killed. Their is no point in trying to use strategy or skills when I can beat a enemy while using none. It may be fun the first time to smack around enemies, but imagine a beat them up game were you just one hit everyone, or a FPS were you have a aim bot, it prevents the game from being challenging.

 

Imagine is this fight here :

you had infinite health and the enemy just approached you with the same damaging attack each time. It would remove all the epicness in it wouldn't it?

[Unperson]

I never learn these things about what a companion can do to content or what just spamming one attack can do to content... because I'm to busy having fun clearing the content with my character and all their various skills and gear and powers.

 

Whether you are having fun or not is not terribly relevant. I used to have fun too. And I used to have fun with "story" bits as well. Nowadays I just log in for raid night, and log out immediately afterwards. But I understand if you don't give a toss whether I'm having fun or not, which is why it's irrelevant.

 

Outside some select HMs, you no longer need to use "all your various skills and gear and powers". That's kind of the point -- simplified gameplay across the board (except for NMs, but seldom anyone runs those anymore). Yes, this includes "story". Why? Reduced development costs, customer focus shifts, inexperienced developers? It's anyone's guess. But we are fast approaching that bad comic-book level of interactivity, assuming we aren't there already.

[Max_Killjoy]

Because knowing you can get through the onslaught just spamming a single attack devoids you of that rush moment were you need to focus and hone your skills. Instead of taking time to analyze the situation or think differently about how to approach a different enemy, you can just jump in and go 111111, either way, the enemy is killed. Their is no point in trying to use strategy or skills when I can beat a enemy while using none. It may be fun the first time to smack around enemies, but imagine a beat them up game were you just one hit everyone, or a FPS were you have a aim bot, it prevents the game from being challenging.

 

Imagine is this fight here :

you had infinite health and the enemy just approached you with the same damaging attack each time. It would remove all the epicness in it wouldn't it?

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I never know these things because it never occurs to me that I should sit there and do nothing, or sit there and tap "1" over and over. It's just not part of my mindset, I'm too busy trying to kill whatever it is I'm fighting as fast as possible.

 

Maybe part of it is that I'm not in the game for a "rush"... I don't like adrenaline, personally. I don't like letting my health get below 50% or letting my companion get knocked out or... Other than that, I don't know.

[Max_Killjoy]

Whether you are having fun or not is not terribly relevant. I used to have fun too. And I used to have fun with "story" bits as well. Nowadays I just log in for raid night, and log out immediately afterwards. But I understand if you don't give a toss whether I'm having fun or not, which is why it's irrelevant.

 

I don't recall saying that whether you're having fun is irrelevant... all things being equal, I'd like as many players as possible to get as much as possible out of the game.

 

 

Outside some select HMs, you no longer need to use "all your various skills and gear and powers". That's kind of the point -- simplified gameplay across the board (except for NMs, but seldom anyone runs those anymore). Yes, this includes "story". Why? Reduced development costs, customer focus shifts, inexperienced developers? It's anyone's guess. But we are fast approaching that bad comic-book level of interactivity, assuming we aren't there already.

 

I've not bothered with KotFE because every time I read about it, it sounds worse.

 

My point in saying "I never realize these things" is that I'm still sitting there using all the skills on my characters in modified rotations depending on what I'm fighting, trying to kill it as fast and efficiently as possible... even if I could "tap 1" and slowly win, it would make me very bored and waste my limited gaming time at night.

[peter_plankskull]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I never know these things because it never occurs to me that I should sit there and do nothing, or sit there and tap "1" over and over. It's just not part of my mindset, I'm too busy trying to kill whatever it is I'm fighting as fast as possible.

 

Maybe part of it is that I'm not in the game for a "rush"... I don't like adrenaline, personally. I don't like letting my health get below 50% or letting my companion get knocked out or... Other than that, I don't know.

 

It just degrades the game knowing you never in any danger, leading it into a "why bother" fighting scenario. As I stated earlier, if I had a aim bot in a FPS, what would be to the point of aiming anymore? I can simply just hold the trigger down and release. The same goes with OP companions, I can just walk in and let them do the work, yes I can at least point my gun at the enemy or use some skills, but the result is going to be the same regardless.

 

I'm not saying everyone has to play for that adrenaline rush, but it would be nice to be in a ounce of danger. Even though it took me like 20 tries to No Hit S Rank Armstrong I was enjoying every minute of it because of the amazing music, gameplay, and the story all converging together making an epic moment to remember. I want to progress on to that ending feeling satisfied I did the hardest challenge in the game.

[Max_Killjoy]

It just degrades the game knowing you never in any danger, leading it into a "why bother" fighting scenario. As I stated earlier, if I had a aim bot in a FPS, what would be to the point of aiming anymore? I can simply just hold the trigger down and release. The same goes with OP companions, I can just walk in and let them do the work, yes I can at least point my gun at the enemy or use some skills, but the result is going to be the same regardless.

 

I'm not saying everyone has to play for that adrenaline rush, but it would be nice to be in a ounce of danger. Even though it took me like 20 tries to No Hit S Rank Armstrong I was enjoying every minute of it because of the amazing music, gameplay, and the story all converging together making an epic moment to remember. I want to progress on to that ending feeling satisfied I did the hardest challenge in the game.

 

For me, the "why bother" is that I still have a mission to fulfill, and mobs to kill, and so on, as fast and efficiently as I can. I just plain enjoy playing the characters.

[robertthebard]

See, that's the thing. You're not actually clearing content. You're watching content clear itself. That's not how a game works because whether or not you do anything, you will "win" regardless. If you have better things to do... go do them. Oh, right, you meant posting off-base replies to points nobody had made, gotcha.

 

BTW, that's a champion, champ, not an elite.

 

No. I'm clearing content. You see, back in the day, my comps were geared, and were just as strong, in most cases, as they were when the changes dropped. My comps didn't play for me then, and they don't play for me now. I play my tanks, I play my healers and I play my DPS, so while you're jacking around looking cool, letting your comp kill one mob, I'm clearing what I need. It's how I've played since my very first toon, and it's how I'll be playing when they shut the servers down, assuming I'm still here.

 

You're absolutely right, however, nobody claimed they were playing with one finger in the post I quoted. Oh wait, yes they did.

[Tsillah]

- The Gemini Frequency hyperwave comms station is 10 kms beneath Zakuul:

 

Well aside from the idea that some kms of planet shouldn't get in the way of an intergalactic transmitter, it is of course entirely possible that even though located below ground, there are connections leading up to above surface. So really there are ways about dealing with this idea without having to try very hard.

 

- Speaking to Valkorion in a secluded location outside the base:

 

I admit it's a bit of a weird way it was presented. It would've been better if the idea to go outside to get some quiet to concentrate had come from your own character.

 

- Satele chilling in the woods 2 minutes from the Alliance base:

 

Well the way I experienced it, you get transported away by valkorion, so I am not at all convinced it's just around the corner. I'd have to revisit this on an alt to see, but to me it just seemed that I was transported away.

 

- The first confrontation with Valkorion is happening in full view of base personnel:

 

Yeh that's kinda funny but then you must've been out of agro range Let's be honest, distance makes very little sense in MMOs, so this didn't bother me so much, but it would've been better if they hadn't been there.

 

 

- Arcann struck a killing blow against us?:

 

Well, was he referring to the lightsaber he stuck through you? Or was he talking about chasing you off Asylum? Or was he talking about the latest tactics to scare the universe? Personally I was more concerned with the rather sudden change of Valkorion's style as a character. It felt like I missed a chapter, kinda like, what happened? What did I do?

 

 

- Satele's idea of casual manslaughter in the woods:

 

Satele has definitely changed. That by itself could be just what happened or something Valkorion wants you to believe. Either way I do not consider this an inconsistency at all.

 

 

- Satele abandonded the Republic and the Jedi Order?:

 

Same as above. I suppose Satele realized that what she'd been doing all her life just wasn't gonna cut it anymore. Who knows, it's too early too tell, but people do get deeply disappointed in their lives and it can change a person. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't make it non-sensical.

 

 

- Marr still serving the Empire?:

 

That's your interpretation but I don't share this rather odd summary of yours. Ghosts have their limits on what they can do anyway in the physical world, so I think you have too high expectations of what he can do. Play or replay the Inquisitor story line if you need to be reminded of the limitations of ghosts, powerful as they might be.

 

 

- Arcann and Vaylin are beyond Light and Dark?:

 

This could simply be what Valkorion wants to believe or make you believe. But then it's rather unclear still what he wants exactly and I suspect that's the point.

 

- Non-Force users can suddenly use the Force?:

 

Agreed. I haven't played it on a tech class but this is lame and a problem that stems from having a single story line for all. Bad form really...and yet, Valkorion is part of you and you can tap into his power in theory. But yeah even with that explanation I'm not happy with this one story fits all approach.

 

 

- Resilience, Transcendence or Sacrifice?:

 

Yeh I didn't care for this cryptic choice. Satele and Marr would've been able to at least give you an idea what this choice was about.

 

 

- Satele and Marr embraced Valkorion's ideals?:

This felt particularly weird, the two mentors felt like simple mouthpieces for Valkorion. When all was said and done, the overall impression I got from them was "you must get more powaaah!" Anchor yourself to power. Change from within. Become something greater. Transcend Jedi and Sith philosophy. It's like you're still talking to Valkorion. (Maybe you are...)

 

Maybe we are indeed...

Edited April 13, 2016 by Tsillah

[Unperson]

No. I'm clearing content. You see, back in the day, my comps were geared, and were just as strong, in most cases, as they were when the changes dropped. My comps didn't play for me then, and they don't play for me now.

 

Yeah, buddy. Tell me more about "back in the day". But first take a look at my user # here, will ya? Yeah, I was here clearing content "back in the day" too. And before that, as well. That's the reason I have a perspective to compare the current state of the game with how things were "back in the day", and make an educated guess regarding where we're headed. Feel free to disagree, but be warned: you may need to formulate an actual argument (GASP!).

 

 

You're absolutely right, however, nobody claimed they were playing with one finger in the post I quoted. Oh wait, yes they did.

 

Reading comprehension fail. The point was that you *can* play with one finger now. The game plays itself, that's how simple, basic and unengaging the majority of PVE content in this game is currently, and that bare minimums design philosophy is also seeping into "story" -- the crux of this thread.

 

I couldn't care less what you personally are doing with your fingers while you play, and I don't remember asking. You can pat yourself in the back for not taking 15 minutes to kill a champion, champ, but that wasn't the point. Keep tilting at windmills, though.

 

And no, I didn't make the vid. Swissbob did. Go tell him how he's doing it wrong.

[MotorCityMan]

There is no imps or pubs, light or dark, there is only the cheapest one story line possible.

[Chuhu]

Nice post OP, I wondered over the same thing, while I was playing.

Again, nice post.

[Storm-Cutter]

If all the bits for a super-weapon are just lying around outside the base, couldn't Satele Shan put it together and leave it on the doorstep?

- I can't imagine there's much else to do for months, hiding in the outback; other than whittling spoons, and trying to take a shower without pervy old Darth Marr watching.

 

- If there's an epic -weapon-of-Arcann-slaying forge in the wilderness, how did it get there? I assume Satele brought it from Tython or somewhere similar - but why isn't it nearer the ship?

Edited April 14, 2016 by Storm-Cutter

[DarkJediAcheron]

The Gemini Frequency hyperwave comms station is 10 kms beneath Zakuul:

It's possible it has connection going up along the tower. Destroying those would only be a temporary setback. Destroy the relay itself and you're good to go.

 

- Speaking to Valkorion in a secluded location outside the base:

 

Valkorion appears when you're alone more often than he does when you're with people. Especially for long conversations.

 

- Satele chilling in the woods 2 minutes from the Alliance base:

 

As someone stated before, it felt 2 minutes to us but we were unconscious/climbing so it could've been far longer in reality.

 

- The first confrontation with Valkorion is happening in full view of base personnel:

 

It could've all been in your head. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

- Arcann struck a killing blow against us?:

 

Yeah this feel like a major oversight for DS characters.

 

- Satele's idea of casual manslaughter in the woods:

 

War changes people. Perhaps she considered it because she (And Marr) felt the Emperor's presence within you. Swap places with her and you'd at least consider killing her in order to (hopefully) end the Emperor once and for all.

 

- Satele abandonded the Republic and the Jedi Order?:

 

When everything you've worked towards, fought for, and experienced in your life has failed. When you're being driven into the ground by guilt for (In her mind) sending so many Jedi to their deaths against Zakuul, you may feel like self-exile is the way to go. Plus, she's admitted to following the will of the Force, which may have pulled her away.

 

- Marr still serving the Empire?:

 

Why didn't Obi-wan do the same thing? Force Ghosts are very limited in what they can do from what we know. Plus, just like with Satele, Marr is following the will of the Force.

 

- Arcann and Vaylin are beyond Light and Dark?:

 

I believe this one needs more explanation in future chapters. It feels like we only got a piece of the puzzle.

 

- Non-Force users can suddenly use the Force?:

 

I interpreted this in two ways. One, Marr and Satele were helping you. Two, when Valkorion left, he said he was leaving you with a gift. As a Force User, perhaps it was more power. As a non-Force user, it was a portion of his power for you to tap into.

 

- Resilience, Transcendence or Sacrifice?:

 

Yeah this wasn't very clear or useful. They needed to go into more explanation.

- Satele and Marr embraced Valkorion's ideals?:

 

I don't want to say they embraced the SAME ideals, merely the same message. The player needs to be more. Stronger. Free from the shackles of their teachings. Or, as others have said, it's secretly Valkorion messing with you.

[robertthebard]

Yeah, buddy. Tell me more about "back in the day". But first take a look at my user # here, will ya? Yeah, I was here clearing content "back in the day" too. And before that, as well. That's the reason I have a perspective to compare the current state of the game with how things were "back in the day", and make an educated guess regarding where we're headed. Feel free to disagree, but be warned: you may need to formulate an actual argument (GASP!).

 

 

 

 

Reading comprehension fail. The point was that you *can* play with one finger now. The game plays itself, that's how simple, basic and unengaging the majority of PVE content in this game is currently, and that bare minimums design philosophy is also seeping into "story" -- the crux of this thread.

 

I couldn't care less what you personally are doing with your fingers while you play, and I don't remember asking. You can pat yourself in the back for not taking 15 minutes to kill a champion, champ, but that wasn't the point. Keep tilting at windmills, though.

 

And no, I didn't make the vid. Swissbob did. Go tell him how he's doing it wrong.

 

Here's the thing:

 

First, don't pull my hair, or run tell my mom that I said mean things to you. The first half of this post reminds me of my grandkids wrestling around the living room over the last week while they were here, so I'm a bit concerned that this is the next step.

 

Second, where did I say "doing it wrong" or that "it can't be done". Speaking of reading comprehension fails, this one is of epic proportions. It's so epic, in fact, that I'm left feeling that it's either deliberate, or someone didn't have their interpreter handy. I provided my own anecdotal evidence of the phenomena. Sorry that it seems to have blown a gasket for you somewhere because the video's demonstration isn't as efficient as actually playing the game, but what did you expect. Oh, that's answered in the very paragraph where you accuse me of failing to comprehend, a likely side effect of your failure to comprehend: One day, the game's going to play itself.

 

As to member numbers, etc? Who really cares? The point was never "I've been here longer than you", which is what has me concerned about the potential hair pulling and tattling, but that comps have always had the potential to be strong, if they were built right. I was soloing Oricon when it was a thing with a Shadow tank and Nadia Grell. She was a pure DPS back then, and frankly, better at it than about half the players I've ever played with.

 

Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing. This 1 button playstyle doesn't apply or appeal to me, I prefer to actually play the game. It doesn't matter who made the video, they didn't provide it for this thread. Apparently they're better at 1 button playing than the person I observed, which isn't a concept that's strange to me, one player being better than another is somehow news these days? If it's appealing to you to sit there doing next to nothing, and you have the extra time, more power to you. I, on the other hand, have better things to do than sit around waiting for you to finish killing stuff that I'd already have dead and on it's respawn timer.

 

As an aside here, bots have been a very real thing in MMOs for a very long time. These bots are actually toons that already could play the game for you. In fact, in some games, you can legally set up what amounts to a bot, via the game's built in macro system, so automated gameplay isn't some new concept due to companions here. Shocking, isn't it.

[Thaladan]

whatever the choices you made in last chapters, when valkorion proposed you his help, it's the same result in this chapter.

 

"choices" you made are just a lure to give you the false feeling you are the center of the story but you're finally just like a viewer of a movie in a 3D cinema : you feel to be in the movie but you're not.

 

So after 11 chapters, trying to have a relevance whatever you chose to do in secondary decisions, the twelve chapter cannot hide inconsistencies.

 

The result is awfull, especially for characters who embraced the emperor's will (my fury of the emperor maraudeur for example who always try to continue is duty)

 

And for non force users characters, seriously what's the interest to play them for this story, it's so wobbly..and this chapter just shows it too much.

 

after 12 chapters we all know that we pay a sub to see an episode of a non canon star wars movie each month. nothing more.

 

BW failed a lot, there is no choice, no difference of story. you just can kill 1 or 2 companions or kill more innocents in the story ..amazing...

 

as a star wars fan, i could like the chapter 12, as a reference of luke in dagoba.

i could like it, if it was a single chapter of our apprenticeship of the force, but as the following of KOTFE story? just NO.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Thaladan

[BorisKarloffe]

OP could add this to the list of things that don't make sense:

 

1.Why Kaliyo is suddenly the only one that can slice the relay, when in chapter 9 concerning slicing and taking over the droids her response was "I wasn't planning on being there long, and tech isn't my thing".

 

2. Why isn't Scorpio involved in the discussion about the mission to the Relay at all? She was the character who found and would be the most invested in the Gemini frequency.

 

3. Why can't Havoc squad slice anything or locate anyone amongst the Zakuul refugees that can slice something? Seems ridiculous the Republic's best special forces group doesn't have anyone that is a tech specialist ( Yuun previously and Gearbox before that).

 

4. Why does Satele mutter that if the Outlander doesn't want some food then good, "more for us"? Last I checked, force ghosts couldn't eat...well...anything, or even care about anyone else eating.

[CrazyCT]

2. Why isn't Scorpio involved in the discussion about the mission to the Relay at all? She was the character who found and would be the most invested in the Gemini frequency.

 

Yeah, I'd keep SCORPIO as far away from any discussions regarding plans about that Gemini frequency. I'd have found her some task to do far, far away.

[Max_Killjoy]

OP could add this to the list of things that don't make sense:

 

1.Why Kaliyo is suddenly the only one that can slice the relay, when in chapter 9 concerning slicing and taking over the droids her response was "I wasn't planning on being there long, and tech isn't my thing".

 

2. Why isn't Scorpio involved in the discussion about the mission to the Relay at all? She was the character who found and would be the most invested in the Gemini frequency.

 

3. Why can't Havoc squad slice anything or locate anyone amongst the Zakuul refugees that can slice something? Seems ridiculous the Republic's best special forces group doesn't have anyone that is a tech specialist ( Yuun previously and Gearbox before that).

 

"Consistent characterization and character abilities are nothing when compared to the power of Our Story. " -- BioWare.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[grania]

"Consistent characterization and character abilities are nothing when compared to the power of Our Story. " -- BioWare.

 

I was a little perturbed that Aric was so lightsided too. I played my trooper half and half and I promise Aric wasn't always an angel.

[Karkais]

Somehow, though, the movies never seem to be able to grasp scale and scope... here's a conflict that's supposed to involve the entire known galaxy, and yet we see "grand fleets" of a couple dozen ships, and stories told as if everything that's going on comes down to a handful of people...

 

Not that Im defending the movies or anything, but if you spread your fleet over the entire galaxy, you aren't going to get very many ships in one place.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Karkais