Why are people still mad about no new raids?

[Slowpokeking]

You know I have to ask whenever I see a statement like this, who elected you to speak to what "modern" players wants or dont want? Maybe you should revise that to you do not want to play a game like this? Seriously, this whole speaking like you were elected to speak for all "modern" players is kinda, maybe, a little too narcissistic

 

Just look at the current game market, seeing the WOW alike MMO is going downhill and MBO like LOL are dominating, even Blizzard had switched focus? It's not made up by me, but that's what is happening, and it had happened for years. Even SWTOR is learning this and switching focus now.

[gabigool]

Just look at the current game market, seeing the WOW alike MMO is going downhill and MBO like LOL are dominating, even Blizzard had switched focus? It's not made up by me, but that's what is happening, and it had happened for years. Even SWTOR is learning this and switching focus now.

 

People on these forums love to say how today's player's are super casual and prefer MOBA's - not to go off on a tangent but I played DOTA2 for a while and it seemed a hell of a lot more intricate than 99% of this game. What am I missing? Is it simply the shorter games?

 

It seems strange to me players who are unwilling to even read a tooltip in this game would find much enjoyment playing DOTA.

 

Or are others easier than DOTA?

Edited September 7, 2016 by gabigool

[Khevar]

People on these forums love to say how today's player's are super casual and prefer MOBA's ...

A few of my friends play MOBAs. "Casual" is the very last word I'd use to describe them.

 

I wonder what a "casual player" would even be like in such a game? It seems it's all about the competition. Eat or be eaten.

[IanArgent]

I will go edit that post to name you properly, I couldn't remember the username to go with the anecdote.

 

But your anecdote shows that real life can and does interfere with the longer Ops, and you read to be one of the "old school" raiding types from "back in the good ol' days of WoW 20+ Ops" who has aged past the years where that kind of stuff was more feasible on a regular basis.

 

I'm just getting into raiding, that SnV run was my third Op run ever (the previous 2 were both DP).

[IanArgent]

A few of my friends play MOBAs. "Casual" is the very last word I'd use to describe them.

 

I wonder what a "casual player" would even be like in such a game? It seems it's all about the competition. Eat or be eaten.

 

Casual gameplay != casual gamers. Compare SWTOR PvP minimum time investment to SWTOR Ops minimum time investment. PvP queue pops quicker, and the matches run, at most, the length of a huttball match timer - so 15-30 minutes. An op runs, at a minimum, an hour, and possibly multiples of that.

[tummiswtor]

Simple answer and 63 pages of thread...

[merovejec]

64 now

[DarthSalt]

People will always complain, especially about :"no new content"

...and when new content is released, they burn through it as fast as possible... so they can complain some more.

[IanArgent]

People will always complain, especially about :"no new content"

...and when new content is released, they burn through it as fast as possible... so they can complain some more.

 

No new raids since Rav and ToS is more than a short dry spell, though. I can guess why it happened; and for myself I'm not directly affected by it because I've not really done any of the existing raid content, so I've still got a backlog to do if and when, but for the people who have been here and done it all, I can understand their frustration.

[Tsetso]

People will always complain, especially about :"no new content"

...and when new content is released, they burn through it as fast as possible... so they can complain some more.

 

Is it too hard to understand - subbing for 3 months is $45. That's almost the cost of a new single player game with gameplay time of 20-40 hours. Isn't it reasonable to expect at least the same from BW for that money?

[rklontz]

Is it too hard to understand - subbing for 3 months is $45. That's almost the cost of a new single player game with gameplay time of 20-40 hours. Isn't it reasonable to expect at least the same from BW for that money?

 

Being this is a supposed mmo apparently it's to much to expect a proper expansion pack

[TUXs]

Is it too hard to understand - subbing for 3 months is $45. That's almost the cost of a new single player game with gameplay time of 20-40 hours. Isn't it reasonable to expect at least the same from BW for that money?

Agreed! Obviously not the same level of content that a new game would include, but it's reasonable to expect far more than we've been getting.

 

That's my biggest complaint about KOTFE...after completing it, I have literally ZERO new group content to do. There's not one thing that's been added this past year+ that requires a group. NOTHING! I've gotten 30-45min of cut-scenes each month, but that's it...

[Shwarzchild]

Agreed! Obviously not the same level of content that a new game would include, but it's reasonable to expect far more than we've been getting.

 

That's my biggest complaint about KOTFE...after completing it, I have literally ZERO new group content to do. There's not one thing that's been added this past year+ that requires a group. NOTHING! I've gotten 30-45min of cut-scenes each month, but that's it...

 

That's not necessarily true. They have added the eternal championship, star fortresses, odessen proving grounds, and the rishi arena. So there is content to play after KOTFE finishes. It's just not what either you or me were looking for. And, I agree that it's not enough to justify spending, what is it, 170 dollars a year on a subscription.

 

I think you and I have discussed it before, but I can't keep track of what I say on these boards, but I think they need to revisit reputation grinding first and foremost through a daily area, and through the eternal championship. I'd also like them to expand on star fortresses in such a way that reputation can be gained (almost like a KDY thing with a drop including some sort of alliance construction kit that goes along with the alliance crate and crystals that drop. They need to remove bolster from hard mode flashpoints and rework that system so it's got a different title (not hardmode but something to reflect end game), and remove the level gap from it allowing only 65s to play them. They also need to remove bolster and the level gap in story mode operations. Then, if I were them I'd put out a guide for end game that says "start here" then "progress to x, y, and z".

 

And finally, I'd like them to add more end game missions like the shroud and dread seed quests. I guess you could include a map to say go: Illum, Black Hole, Belsavis, CZ-198, Oricon, Rishi, Yavin. The "main" quests should drop something of value that relates to end game whether it be gear or some sort of unlock to help along the way (like say a field respec). If it were me, I'd eliminate crystal vendors that sell gear, and put the gear you need as rewards for completing the daily area one time missions. So, Illum would grant crystal level 216 belts, Black hole would give say a 216 currently crystal level bracers Belsavis would grant pants, CZ gloves, Oricon boots, Rishi chest, Yavin head, and then I'd put 216 click relics as obtainable rewards off of the Eternal Championship along with the currently available implants (which mind you are raid quality if I recall correctly) on that EC vendor. The crystal vendors on fleet would then sell exotic isotopes, strategic matrices, dark matter catalysts, deocrations, and say companion customizations or something, or maybe legacy armor sets or whatever.

 

I know people would be like what about main hand and offhand? I'd bump the main hand you get after finishing I think it's chapter 9 up to 216 crystal level, and then I'd bump a 216 crystal off hand off of the star fortress story mission. Basically, I'd combine the vendor on odessen with the crystal decoration vendor on fleet with the legacy armor set vendor on fleet instead of having those guys sell crystal gear. Hard mode flashpoints would drop 216 mk2 gear with itemized enhancements off of the bonus boss and last boss. Bonus boss would have a 100 percent chance to drop either a decoration, mount, or crafting material along with say 5 crystals. I'd also remove the three levels of crystals and simply have one set. Story mode operations would drop 216 set bonus pieces as they do now. I'm however ok with saying there's 2 tiers of hard mode flashpoints and having a selected flashpoint system like how highlighted hard modes are, and with that the selected would drop a 216 set bonus piece on the final boss. That would be interesting in my mind.

 

That would at least give some semblance of organization to the end game functions in the game. Right now it's just woo you made end game! But, guess what there's no real "progresion" feel to it. Every play no matter who they are likes progression in some sense. They go from level 1 to level 50 because they want to progress the class quests as an example.

 

I'd kill for new operations, and I'm probably dropping to preferred when KOTET hits if they really aren't putting any new ones in the game. But, we can't ignore what they have added even if we don't agree or like those things.

[IanArgent]

No more reputation grinds! It's a hackneted time-wasting mechanic. And, for that matter, one that's been largely replaced by the Alliance/heroic grind, only cut down to a more reasonable size on a per-character basis. Just because you had to walk uphill both ways int eh snow doesn't mean it should keep going.

[Shwarzchild]

No more reputation grinds! It's a hackneted time-wasting mechanic. And, for that matter, one that's been largely replaced by the Alliance/heroic grind, only cut down to a more reasonable size on a per-character basis. Just because you had to walk uphill both ways int eh snow doesn't mean it should keep going.

 

I'm not saying anything like that. What I'm trying to get at is repeatable things that players can do for a "choose your own reward" type satisfaction. Take Yavin, or Oricon, or CZ for instance. You get to grab up a command walker, or flame mount, or exclusive decoration. The game needs to give players their own reasons to actually play the game when they hit 65.

 

edit: At the end of the day isn't end game pretty much a time wasting set of behaviors that bridge the gap between expansions anyway?

 

edit 2: As an addition to edit 1, these "in between expansion" time sinks need to be satisfying enough in some fashion to give people reasons to keep logging in, and subscribing and such.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Shwarzchild

[IanArgent]

I'm not saying anything like that. What I'm trying to get at is repeatable things that players can do for a "choose your own reward" type satisfaction. Take Yavin, or Oricon, or CZ for instance. You get to grab up a command walker, or flame mount, or exclusive decoration. The game needs to give players their own reasons to actually play the game when they hit 65.

 

edit: At the end of the day isn't end game pretty much a time wasting set of behaviors that bridge the gap between expansions anyway?

 

edit 2: As an addition to edit 1, these "in between expansion" time sinks need to be satisfying enough in some fashion to give people reasons to keep logging in, and subscribing and such.

 

That's what HSF and TEC were (among other things) supposed to have been. But HSF is still too much of a grind, and TECs rewards are somewhat sub-par at the endgame, for reasons good and bad.

 

I should note, incidentally, something I just said in a different thread: my expectations for KotET are set higher than they were for KotFE. KotFE was the product of a "rebuilding" year, and even with that in mind, barely met expectations, at least partially because they were tuned a lot more towards attracting new players than retaining old ones. For better or for worse.

[CorellianWannabe]

Agreed! Obviously not the same level of content that a new game would include, but it's reasonable to expect far more than we've been getting.

 

That's my biggest complaint about KOTFE...after completing it, I have literally ZERO new group content to do. There's not one thing that's been added this past year+ that requires a group. NOTHING! I've gotten 30-45min of cut-scenes each month, but that's it...

 

To be fair, you've also gotten a fair share of trash mob/speed bump combat (that even those darn stealthers get to experience so they don't feel left out).

[Shwarzchild]

That's what HSF and TEC were (among other things) supposed to have been. But HSF is still too much of a grind, and TECs rewards are somewhat sub-par at the endgame, for reasons good and bad.

 

I should note, incidentally, something I just said in a different thread: my expectations for KotET are set higher than they were for KotFE. KotFE was the product of a "rebuilding" year, and even with that in mind, barely met expectations, at least partially because they were tuned a lot more towards attracting new players than retaining old ones. For better or for worse.

 

When it comes to Eternal Champ and Star Fortresses I think they're actually tuned well, and the rewards are good. HSF could use some reward tuning, but EC actually gives players raid quality gear along with some good decorations. The non modable gear I would agree was a mistake. HSFs actually give out things players could use in barrels, hilts, and such. But, it was done in too much of a grindy way. With my ideas it gets the gearing treadmill started so that players can actually partake in flashpoints and operations without needing to cry about not having enough of something from a gear stand point. It's all taken care of at the start so that players can just play and then decide what things they want and don't want. Oh you want that exclusive mount? Go for it! I don't know. I feel like the game at 65 is so so disjointed that it leads players to either leaving, or being so under prepared for things that it creates an unhealthy imbalance within the game itself. Operations have served as the major time sink between expansions, but without those, I would say they need to rethink their approach overall for that end game stuff.

[IanArgent]

When it comes to Eternal Champ and Star Fortresses I think they're actually tuned well, and the rewards are good. HSF could use some reward tuning, but EC actually gives players raid quality gear along with some good decorations. The non modable gear I would agree was a mistake. HSFs actually give out things players could use in barrels, hilts, and such. But, it was done in too much of a grindy way. With my ideas it gets the gearing treadmill started so that players can actually partake in flashpoints and operations without needing to cry about not having enough of something from a gear stand point. It's all taken care of at the start so that players can just play and then decide what things they want and don't want. Oh you want that exclusive mount? Go for it! I don't know. I feel like the game at 65 is so so disjointed that it leads players to either leaving, or being so under prepared for things that it creates an unhealthy imbalance within the game itself. Operations have served as the major time sink between expansions, but without those, I would say they need to rethink their approach overall for that end game stuff.

 

Note, I prefer the HSF rewards, and the TEC (lack of) grind.

 

I kind of agree that the current "endgame" is a bit of a mess; in the name of "Streamlining" they made it much to easy to "sequence-break" on a lot of hte pre-KotFE content, and it's a lot harder to get context for a bunch of things.

[LyraineAlei]

No more reputation grinds! It's a hackneted time-wasting mechanic. And, for that matter, one that's been largely replaced by the Alliance/heroic grind, only cut down to a more reasonable size on a per-character basis. Just because you had to walk uphill both ways int eh snow doesn't mean it should keep going.

 

Actually... I likes reputation grinding.

 

IMO, KotFE should have had zones added where we had to do the weekly mission once to get the character for the Alliance (like Oricon does) and then those zones would have a reputation grind for other things. New repeatable content, and then Heroics could still be used for Alliance Specialist crates.

 

EX. (All would allow for groups to run them because after running the chapter to unlock the zone and character, the missions would be picked up at a terminal like most of the daily zones)

 

 

Firebrand- unlock part of that under-city zone of Zakuul where the player is running around sabotaging Zakuul equipment stuff (with friends as an option like the old Daily Zones). Maybe the weekly would reward 2 Smuggled Alliance Crates, the daily missions reward credits and rep vendor sells Zakuulian Fashion outfits

 

Disavowed- unlocks part of that zone where the player is running around doing covert military stuff. Maybe rewards 2 Military Alliance Crates per week, dailies credits, and rep vendor sells Alliance Armor outfits

 

Visions- Unlocks part of that zone where the player is running around for Force Relics and the like. Maybe rewards 4 Artifact Alliance crates per week, dailies credits, and rep vendors sell Force Neutral Styled Robe outfits

 

Profit- Unlocks zone where player runs around pulling off heist type stuff. Weekly rewards 2 Alien Tech Alliance Crates, dailies credits, and rep vendors would sell some Ruffian and Hooligan outfits.

 

Mandalore- Unlocks the zone where player runs around doing things like in KOTOR 2 had on Dxun. Weekly rewards 2 Military Alliance crates, dailies credits, and vendor sells Armor With A Lot of Stuff That Doesn't Look Like Regulations Standard outfits (to counter the military-like armors of Disavowed's daily zone).

 

Gemini- Unlocks a zone there where the player runs around trying to get more information on stuff. Weekly rewards 2 Smuggled Goods Alliance Crates

 

Battle- Unlocks a daily zone on Odessan fighting Zakuul forces (What, it says Battle, I expect a battle). Weekly rewards 2 Alien Tech Alliance crates, dailies credits, and rep vendor sells Repurposed Zakuul Armor Equipment outfits (AKA Zakuulian armor that was hastily painted with the Alliance symbol on it).

 

I have the Visions zone rewarding four crates instead of two because it was the only one that I didn't have a second Weekly rewards 2 Force Crates things.

 

 

That would be repeatable content, and the weeklies would consist of completing four or five missions for the zone. Throw in an extra Heroic for each zone, and there's sort-of group content. When BW was saying stuff about "working with these groups to build up an alliance to get a companion from that group", I was thinking reputation zones where the hour of cutscene content would be introducing the zone and the story there which would be concluded in the first trip to the zone, but going back to grind out a little reputation (was also thinking on scale of Rishi for reputation grinding ease). Since the Reputation system is Legacy-wide, it would allow for alts to go through KotFE more easily (SWTOR being a in the past a very alt-friendly game) for those wishing to speed run it through for whatever comes next.

 

It's not raid/Operations content, but it would be more content stuff that would appease people as they were still waiting for the next Operation to be released.

(Spoiler box put in more for size)

[TUXs]

To be fair, you've also gotten a fair share of trash mob/speed bump combat (that even those darn stealthers get to experience so they don't feel left out).

Ya know, I thought about that as I was typing my reply too...that'll teach me to leave it out

[CorellianWannabe]

Ya know, I thought about that as I was typing my reply too...that'll teach me to leave it out

 

I presume it was there so the expansion could be called a game rather than an interactive film/novel/etc. ?

[TUXs]

I presume it was there so the expansion could be called a game rather than an interactive film/novel/etc. ?

I couldn't have said it better myself. Filler between cut-scenes.

[IanArgent]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Filler between cut-scenes.

 

What irks me is they could have done it better - they did with Darvannis and the Swamps. Large open world with small instances. Let the player decide how much additional combat they want to engage in today. Not thematically appropriate for the chapters on spacecraft, I suppose, but they could still have cut back on those miles of corridors.

[Tanitha]

What irks me is they could have done it better - they did with Darvannis and the Swamps. Large open world with small instances. Let the player decide how much additional combat they want to engage in today. Not thematically appropriate for the chapters on spacecraft, I suppose, but they could still have cut back on those miles of corridors.

 

Well, without the corridors, the chapters would be 5 minutes long...

 

Someone said about Star Fortresses: personally, except for getting companions on new toons (now DvL ones, when I get around to it), there is no reason to play them. And they can be easily soloed, so why go in a group? Especially when you have to loot each dead mob in a group? barrels, hilts etc. Do an Ev on 3-4 toons get an MH. Go to vendor get the hilt/barrel, RE, buy crafting mats or just get them through Odessen vendor. bam 220 hilt/barrel. No need to grind SFs.

 

Eternal Championship: ugh, no. All the achievements are for solo content. And again I can solo it. Again why go in a group when you can solo it? And again, I do Eternal Championship only to get Bowdaar. No need to grind it otherwise for some stupid non-moddable gear, or some decos. Let's see if the new weapons are worth it at all. If they are again non-moddable versions, not going to bother.

 

Group content means content you cannot solo at all. Neither HSFs nor TEC are group content. They are solo content you can also group up for.

 

And one other thing: on a number of my toons, I had done all quests on planets and with the new exploration and stuff, the quests have reappeared. So did the bonus series which I had done. That's not new content either, that's rehashed content. A lot of rehashed content with KOTFE, there was nothing new, nothing you could play for a bit. The best chapter in all of KOTFE was Chapter 2.

 

I want something that is actually group content, something that is really good and not a crappy chapter per month, and an alliance mission per month.