Why are people still mad about no new raids?

[IanArgent]

Note: "compression" of content can go horribly wrong, as it did in several chapters of KotFE. They got rid of the "open world" but left in the "walk 3 steps in a corridor, pull ash and trash, repeat." The chapter on Darvannis was better in that regard; an open world where you could pick how much fighting you wanted to do today, and instanced "mission objectives" that are basically get-in, get-out (though some of those were too long as well). Yavin IV worked the same way, for that matter. Zakuul Old Town does not, too much corridor in the open world, and a lot of chokepoints.

[masterceil]

I have no problem with Ops gear being better statistically than non-Ops gear. I've been saying that all along.

Bigger numbers are only relevant against bigger enemies. (With the minor exception of alacrity. But it's such a minor effect, and only would show up in long battles; you'd only see the difference in Ops or possibly one or two FP boss fights).

 

If set bonuses didn't mess with cooldowns, or guarantee crits and crits didn't have such an effect on mechanics, I'd care a lot less. And I'll grant that the 4.0 set bonuses are a lot less game-changing than the pre-4.0 ones. But the effect is still felt outside of Ops, and set bonuses are still available outside of Ops.

 

Sorry, it's a long thread - I skimmed a lot. But that's a "yes", then, which is fine by me : )

[Slowpokeking]

Because classic raid is outdated. Modern players don't want to spend too much time to organize group again.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Next expansion will see old raid set bonus gear sold in Cartel packs and you'll have to rely on RNG to get your class set bonus since there won't be any new raids. There will be a few hours of story content that will be no different when you run it on your 24th alt cause "choices matter". PvP will get one new map every 2 years so at least they'll be catered to . Mass Effect will have a better story than SWTOR's new content.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Because classic raid is outdated. Modern players don't want to spend too much time to organize group again.

 

The Participation Trophy Generation kids don't want group content where they have to put in effort*

[IanArgent]

Next expansion will see old raid set bonus gear sold in Cartel packs and you'll have to rely on RNG to get your class set bonus since there won't be any new raids. There will be a few hours of story content that will be no different when you run it on your 24th alt cause "choices matter". PvP will get one new map every 2 years so at least they'll be catered to . Mass Effect will have a better story than SWTOR's new content.

 

Lazy trolling. Other than what, 3 examples (the holostatues) I can't think of anything in the CM packs that have been anything but cosmetic. (The combat pets are a half-example - they free up one companion to craft, but only one; and they're expensive or annoying to rank up in influence)

 

The Participation Trophy Generation kids don't want group content where they have to put in effort*

 

When BW is blatantly wasting my time as a deliberate method to pad playtime, sure, I'll call that out. More boss fights, less ash and trash, please

[ArenCordial]

Other than what, 3 examples (the holostatues) I can't think of anything in the CM packs that have been anything but cosmetic. (The combat pets are a half-example - they free up one companion to craft, but only one; and they're expensive or annoying to rank up in influence)

 

-Holostatues

-Shroud's Datacrons (minor story)

-Cartel Gambling Machine (can't remember the name)

-Treek (she's an example where she was just plain better than normal companions.) Granted you could just buy with credits but thats the same as most things through the GTN and she was available for direct buy.

-Combat Pet Companions

 

There might be more but you can say a minimum of 5 non-cosmetic pieces.

Edited September 6, 2016 by ArenCordial

[Slowpokeking]

The Participation Trophy Generation kids don't want group content where they have to put in effort*

 

No, they don't want to spend too much effort to find/organize group rather than doing the content itself.

[Tsetso]

Lazy trolling. Other than what, 3 examples (the holostatues) I can't think of anything in the CM packs that have been anything but cosmetic. (The combat pets are a half-example - they free up one companion to craft, but only one; and they're expensive or annoying to rank up in influence)

 

The datacubes probably but that's a bit of a stretch. And CM droids and pets are extremely easy to level to 50 influence if you're into a conquest guild or buy CM packs - the java junk can be used to buy level 6 maintenance and delicacies.

When BW is blatantly wasting my time as a deliberate method to pad playtime, sure, I'll call that out. More boss fights, less ash and trash, please

 

Sadly with kotet we'll probably see the same boss fights and more skytroopers.

[Gguyrules]

We can love the game and still be honest about its flaws...you should try it.

 

you gotta look past the so called "flaws" and enjoy what you have. Make do with what you have,don't go demanding for more...

[ZETA_SCORPII]

No, they don't want to spend too much effort to find/organize group rather than doing the content itself.

 

Sounds like you don't raid and don't know the satisfaction of clearing hard content as a group. SWTOR already had hundreds of hours of single player content so why do you care if those of us who enjoy a challenge get new Operations?

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Lazy trolling. Other than what, 3 examples (the holostatues) I can't think of anything in the CM packs that have been anything but cosmetic. (The combat pets are a half-example - they free up one companion to craft, but only one; and they're expensive or annoying to rank up in influence)

 

I was being sarcastic about set bonus gear being sold in the CM, but the rest is pretty much how it is.

[IanArgent]

-Holostatues

-Shroud's Datacrons (minor story)

-Cartel Gambling Machine (can't remember the name)

-Treek (she's an example where she was just plain better than normal companions.) Granted you could just buy with credits but thats the same as most things through the GTN and she was available for direct buy.

-Combat Pet Companions

 

There might be more but you can say a minimum of 5 non-cosmetic pieces.

 

Mentioned the Holostatues. I'll grant the story 'crons (though, technically, they story 'crons have no mechanical benefit, solely cosmetic) and the Slot Machine. Treek is a (minor) mechanical benefit, but, as you said, she can be bought via credits without being sourced from a pack (you can buy her contract per-character for some ridiculous amount of credits), so she doesn't count. (She's still a mechanical benefit even post-4.0, for the crafting). The combat pets are a minor example, because they cannot be used for crafting directly; they only benefit you if you have less than or equal to your mission limit, based on your level.

 

It's still a literal handful of item types.

[Nempo]

I have a feeling it's going to be some sort of Horde Mode encounter type, similar to ME3 multiplayer. That seems to be the sort of thing they'd push out.

 

If it does not have an 8-man mode though, I am willing to wager the forum PvP won't last very long at all.

 

You know, ME3 multiplayer is still FILLED with players, be it 6pm on a week night or even 3am on a week night.

When something is good, it's good heh.

 

A horde style area with objectives that make you have to come up with strategies ont he fly could actually be fun in an MMO...shake raiders out of complacency of "this encounter requires this strategy and deviating from it means we will yell at you, hate you, and kick you...mostly in that order".

[Slowpokeking]

Sounds like you don't raid and don't know the satisfaction of clearing hard content as a group. SWTOR already had hundreds of hours of single player content so why do you care if those of us who enjoy a challenge get new Operations?

 

I know, but it comes with a lot of frustration when you need to spend a lot of efforts on finding group and endure the afk stuff. Without a group it can't be accessed at all .Modern players no longer wants to play game like this.

 

Because the developers think it's not worthy to continue the raid content, simple.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[ArenCordial]

Mentioned the Holostatues. I'll grant the story 'crons (though, technically, they story 'crons have no mechanical benefit, solely cosmetic) and the Slot Machine. Treek is a (minor) mechanical benefit, but, as you said, she can be bought via credits without being sourced from a pack (you can buy her contract per-character for some ridiculous amount of credits), so she doesn't count. (She's still a mechanical benefit even post-4.0, for the crafting). The combat pets are a minor example, because they cannot be used for crafting directly; they only benefit you if you have less than or equal to your mission limit, based on your level.

 

It's still a literal handful of item types.

 

I wasn't actually debating you on that point just providing a list of what could qualify, just to be clear.

 

You know, ME3 multiplayer is still FILLED with players, be it 6pm on a week night or even 3am on a week night.

When something is good, it's good heh.

 

A horde style area with objectives that make you have to come up with strategies ont he fly could actually be fun in an MMO...shake raiders out of complacency of "this encounter requires this strategy and deviating from it means we will yell at you, hate you, and kick you...mostly in that order".

 

Honestly I don't think that will translate the same to an mmo. ME3 multiplayer was fun but to keep it fresh what did they do? Adding new weapons, new classes, new playstyles etc. TOR really isn't in a position to do that unless they pull out some kind of fixed build classes that aren't the PC classes kinda like GSF ship classes which would be dumb.

 

In the end the horde-meta would probably revolve around using the most mobile classes to kite and avoid damage to clear the higher levels if damage gets too strong and until then tanks would probably just be responsible to round up the horde to AoE them down. It would take a lot to bring in some interesting mechanics that require smart play and frankly KotFE has been pretty light on that.

 

Put hey all those Snipers that think Suppressive Fire on repeat is the ideal rotation will be vindicated.

[LyraineAlei]

I know, but it comes with a lot of frustration when you need to spend a lot of efforts on finding group and endure the afk stuff. Without a group it can't be accessed at all .Modern players no longer wants to play game like this.

 

^ I'd rather sit in FP GF than Ops GF, and in 4v4 Arena match queue over Huttball/other 8v8s in warzones. I'm only waiting for a total of four people instead of eight. I might only have two hours of time available at that moment instead of four. Earlier in the thread there was a guy (Ian) with kids and a wife, with a wife (also a SWTOR player by the report) who was annoyed the Operation he was in was going overtime into dinner.

 

Modern players who used to play the raids that took hours to get a group for have grown up into modern players who don't have those hours anymore for X, Y, Z, N, O, P reasons.

Edited September 7, 2016 by LyraineAlei

[Nempo]

 

Honestly I don't think that will translate the same to an mmo. ME3 multiplayer was fun but to keep it fresh what did they do? Adding new weapons, new classes, new playstyles etc. TOR really isn't in a position to do that unless they pull out some kind of fixed build classes that aren't the PC classes kinda like GSF ship classes which would be dumb.

 

In the end the horde-meta would probably revolve around using the most mobile classes to kite and avoid damage to clear the higher levels if damage gets too strong and until then tanks would probably just be responsible to round up the horde to AoE them down. It would take a lot to bring in some interesting mechanics that require smart play and frankly KotFE has been pretty light on that.

 

Put hey all those Snipers that think Suppressive Fire on repeat is the ideal rotation will be vindicated.

 

It might actually. If you have mobs such as the Left4Dead style rackghouls that can yank someone out (originally the one could yank snipers out of cover even, I wish they still could). Give some mobs infinite mezzes...(not a mez locks both you and your target, otherwise it is not a mezz)...that require your allies to save you. AI that actively avoids being corralled; yes, AI that ignores aggro and/or actively attacks whoever has the lowest aggro.

 

Hell, can even make successful completion a lot box of random NEW shells and weapon shells. Taking down bosses (with 100% randomized abilities) earn you mods to slot those shells or your current ones. It would work well. It would also be the challenge so many say they want. After all the raiders and such constantly harp they want REAL challenges...making abilities of enemies totally random means you cannot strategize for the fight ahead of time, perfect challenge!

[IanArgent]

^ I'd rather sit in FP GF than Ops GF, and ine 4v4 Arena match queue over Huttball/other 8v8s in warzones. I'm only waiting for a total of four people instead of eight. I might only have two hours of time available at that moment instead of four. Earlier in the thread there was a guy with kids and a wife, with a wife (also a SWTOR player by the report) who was annoyed the Operation he was in was going overtime into dinner.

 

Modern players who used to play the raids that took hours to get a group for have grown up into modern players who don't have those hours anymore for X, Y, Z, N, O, P reasons.

 

That was me, with the wife and kid and overtime Op. Which I loved playing, easily one of my better SWTOR experiences. But that time investment, though. And, at that I got lucky with the queue pop time

[ArenCordial]

It might actually. If you have mobs such as the Left4Dead style rackghouls that can yank someone out (originally the one could yank snipers out of cover even, I wish they still could). Give some mobs infinite mezzes...(not a mez locks both you and your target, otherwise it is not a mezz)...that require your allies to save you. AI that actively avoids being corralled; yes, AI that ignores aggro and/or actively attacks whoever has the lowest aggro.

 

Hell, can even make successful completion a lot box of random NEW shells and weapon shells. Taking down bosses (with 100% randomized abilities) earn you mods to slot those shells or your current ones. It would work well. It would also be the challenge so many say they want. After all the raiders and such constantly harp they want REAL challenges...making abilities of enemies totally random means you cannot strategize for the fight ahead of time, perfect challenge!

 

I think you are vastly overestimating BioWare's ability or desire to provide meaningful PvE content. If they can't design a single operation to make KotET's launch and give raiders exactly what they were asking for you think somehow they will have randomly generated bosses? Please.

 

Secondly I think you are underestimating progression raider's ability to categorize enemies and abilities even if they somehow came up with encounters like you think. BioWare wouldn't have an unlimited number of mechanics to work with so you'd just look for and identify which mechanics a boss would have then just take the appropriate counter/action.

 

Finally where did this idea of a horde mode come from, seems far more likely to me that uprisings are simply 5.0 star fortresses with different backdrops to avoid the "sameness criticism" of the existing star fortress content.

[LyraineAlei]

That was me, with the wife and kid and overtime Op. Which I loved playing, easily one of my better SWTOR experiences. But that time investment, though. And, at that I got lucky with the queue pop time

 

I will go edit that post to name you properly, I couldn't remember the username to go with the anecdote.

 

But your anecdote shows that real life can and does interfere with the longer Ops, and you read to be one of the "old school" raiding types from "back in the good ol' days of WoW 20+ Ops" who has aged past the years where that kind of stuff was more feasible on a regular basis.

[lightSaberzFan]

I know, but it comes with a lot of frustration when you need to spend a lot of efforts on finding group and endure the afk stuff. Without a group it can't be accessed at all .Modern players no longer wants to play game like this.

 

Because the developers think it's not worthy to continue the raid content, simple.

 

You know I have to ask whenever I see a statement like this, who elected you to speak to what "modern" players wants or dont want? Maybe you should revise that to you do not want to play a game like this? Seriously, this whole speaking like you were elected to speak for all "modern" players is kinda, maybe, a little too narcissistic

[TUXs]

you gotta look past the so called "flaws" and enjoy what you have. Make do with what you have,don't go demanding for more...

I'm subbed, I have been since launch...obviously "I" am able to look past the flaws. And I'm thrilled with what I have most of the time and I don't "demand" anything...I simply offer my honest and sincere feedback as to what "I believe the game needs, something I wish more people felt comfortable doing.

[PlasmaJohn]

you gotta look past the so called "flaws" and enjoy what you have. Make do with what you have,don't go demanding for more...

 

Eh. $15 for a single player game's not that bad. If I'm bored again next summer might even pick up the sequel.

[gabigool]

Finally where did this idea of a horde mode come from, seems far more likely to me that uprisings are simply 5.0 star fortresses with different backdrops to avoid the "sameness criticism" of the existing star fortress content.

 

I think I mentioned it first - I was trying to think what an "Uprising" would be and my first thought was something like ME3, seeing as this is BW and they seem to have gone back to rip as much from the ME series as possible for KotFE. Main character gets conked on the head, in stasis for years, loses crew, goes back and gets them back, now they're rehashing the shadow broker... etc

 

Not based on anything other than a guess to the question: What will BW give us instead of what we are asking for?

 

You know, ME3 multiplayer is still FILLED with players, be it 6pm on a week night or even 3am on a week night.

When something is good, it's good heh.

 

A horde style area with objectives that make you have to come up with strategies ont he fly could actually be fun in an MMO...shake raiders out of complacency of "this encounter requires this strategy and deviating from it means we will yell at you, hate you, and kick you...mostly in that order".

 

I still play it from time to time and a few months back a bunch of us were having a blast with it. I always loved it. And admittedly, back in my old CoD days I used to wear out Der Riese. (Which, off-topic-ly, had my favorite all time trailer for any game ever ).

 

I just fear whatever they make will not be 8-man and will not have a legitimately difficult mode, which will ultimately kill the game (for me and my friends).

Edited September 7, 2016 by gabigool