Which classes have the best solo survivability in regs?

[Volxen]

Which classes have the best solo survivability in regs? Meaning classes that can you can still do well with, even if your playing in an uncoordinated team with no support (no healers, no coordination, etc.) and your up against a very skilled/organized premade that knows what they are doing (CCing properly, focus firing, etc.). I know sorc is definitely on this list, but what other classes/disciplines make the cut?

 

I've been playing a lot of tactics vanguard (AP PT equivalent) lately, and while it certainly has great burst, it's too squishy under focus fire so I'm looking into other alternatives.

[DerSchneider]

DPS: sorc, operative, merc if played correctly

Tanks: jugg and sin

[Lhancelot]

Which classes have the best solo survivability in regs? Meaning classes that can you can still do well with, even if your playing in an uncoordinated team with no support (no healers, no coordination, etc.) and your up against a very skilled/organized premade that knows what they are doing (CCing properly, focus firing, etc.). I know sorc is definitely on this list, but what other classes/disciplines make the cut?

 

I've been playing a lot of tactics vanguard (AP PT equivalent) lately, and while it certainly has great burst, it's too squishy under focus fire so I'm looking into other alternatives.

 

Healing sorc/sage by far has best survivability and self-reliance in regs. These healing machines can carry a bunch of average players like none other. You also can manage multiple dps on you, and take a beating before needing to use any of the multiple escapes at your disposal.

 

Now, if you mean dps classes, then in regs I'd say juggernaut/guardians. Simple because they can dish out great damage and they have really strong defensives and a self-heal. I see juggs frequently top dps and pull great protection numbers too.

 

Sorc/sage dps madness spec is quite self-reliant too. Not as sturdy as a sorc healer, but they have many escapes and can do so much damage from distance. You can control how the fight goes with them and escape when it gets bad.

 

Another dps class that has great survivability is the operative/scoundrel. Concealment or lethality are both durable and are very elusive. They have nice self healing and both have fair damage if that's what the player focuses on.

[wepeel]

merc if played correctly

 

What? By rocketing out and running, or what?

 

I would say sorcs, ops, PTs and juggernauts.

Edited April 5, 2016 by wepeel

[Volxen]

Healing sorc/sage by far has best survivability and self-reliance in regs. These healing machines can carry a bunch of average players like none other. You also can manage multiple dps on you, and take a beating before needing to use any of the multiple escapes at your disposal.

 

Now, if you mean dps classes, then in regs I'd say juggernaut/guardians. Simple because they can dish out great damage and they have really strong defensives and a self-heal. I see juggs frequently top dps and pull great protection numbers too.

 

Sorc/sage dps madness spec is quite self-reliant too. Not as sturdy as a sorc healer, but they have many escapes and can do so much damage from distance. You can control how the fight goes with them and escape when it gets bad.

 

Another dps class that has great survivability is the operative/scoundrel. Concealment or lethality are both durable and are very elusive. They have nice self healing and both have fair damage if that's what the player focuses on.

 

Which spec(s) for guardian/juggernaut?

[Fellow-Canadian]

No matter what your PVP question is sorc healer is the answer.

[Lhancelot]

Which spec(s) for guardian/juggernaut?

 

I wish I could give you more detail, but this is one class I never played in 65s myself. I simply am quite familiar with them, from grouping with guildies and also from fighting them.

 

As for what spec, you'll have to ask someone that mains one to really get the full monty.

 

I do know it seems all 3 specs are viable in regs, and another option as a jugg is to skanktank it, meaning run the tank spec with dps mods for tons of damage, survivability, and add in the 20% trauma debuff.

 

It just takes a lot of comms to gear out a jugg because you will end up having to yank a lot of mods out and switch them with either dps ones or high endurance ones if you go for full tank.

 

If you check the jugg forums they probably got guides and info there with discussions on it, which spec is better for what.

[foxmob]

merc if team plays with them

 

tweaked t hat a bit. they're very good in regs. but they're also very easy to shutdown. you need teammates in front of you. mercs don't have the tool set to escape or tank multiple DPS. same for snipers more or less.

 

if you're rolling WZs on your own (DPS only list), then it's stealth first b/c they can fully disengage if things get hairy

 

1. op/sin
   
2. sorc is actually the best (most complete) but you can't just disengage if the the going gets too rough.
   
3. warrior class is next. it's more your playstyle preference. mara will do more meaningful burst but requires more precise dcd management. jugg has a good burst and a good sustained/spread spec, but you never really duck out the way a mara does. it's more straightforward and forgiving with lower burst ceiling.
   
4. PT cannot be kited. can stay out of a lot of the melee units' attacks. having both a pull and a leap is funzies.
   
5. merc on your own, you shouldn't last long. with teammates in front of you, and heals "behind" you, you're a wrecking ball (2nd to a good carny imo).
   
6. sniper - same as merc. minus the heals. takes more precision than merc. kinda like a mara vs. jugg in that sense. both are very vulnerable to multiple attackers (compared to other classes ranked above)
   

 

this is just my solo survivability list. if you want to be able to extricate yourself from a hairy situation or last the longest in one. there's nothing wrong with merc or sniper. they just are more dependent on having teammates in front of them to stand between their attackers and themselves. sorcs are more capable of maintaining that space themselves, tanking for short periods, and escaping. otherwise, they'd be much lower too.

[kweassa]

Which classes have the best solo survivability in regs? Meaning classes that can you can still do well with, even if your playing in an uncoordinated team with no support (no healers, no coordination, etc.) and your up against a very skilled/organized premade that knows what they are doing (CCing properly, focus firing, etc.). I know sorc is definitely on this list, but what other classes/disciplines make the cut?

 

I've been playing a lot of tactics vanguard (AP PT equivalent) lately, and while it certainly has great burst, it's too squishy under focus fire so I'm looking into other alternatives.

 

Healing sorc/sage, and none other.

 

In reality, the difference between most solo players and average premades are actually negligible -- and one interesting bit you can see if you play in Rep side, is that even if there are no Rep premades, if one of the more talented sage healers queue into the game, you can see the power balance between the two teams changing from what felt like 10:1 odds against the Reps, to at least a 6:4 against Reps. If the same number of solo healing sages queue to match up with Imp premade sorcs, then the game's almost 50:50 odds.

 

This is why I view most premades as essentially not much more than "guaranteed healers setup" (...which means the 'oh we do it for competitive PvP' excuse is just bullshi*, and its really more about easy matches...), and at the same time the sorc/sage healers being way too powerful and influential to the outcome of the match. But as it is, if there is one class that is almost self-sufficient in any situation, and impact the game, then its sorc/sage healers. None other.

Edited April 5, 2016 by kweassa

[wepeel]

tweaked t hat a bit. they're very good in regs. but they're also very easy to shutdown. you need teammates in front of you. mercs don't have the tool set to escape or tank multiple DPS. same for snipers more or less.

 

Sure, mercs and snipers are effective with a solid team, but give any class backup from an attention-grabbing tank, a couple of extra dps and a solid healer, and they will perform well too. In a team that's getting beat snipers and mercs will come under pressure a lot, and that will make at least the sniper's dps drop to near zero. Mercs can be more mobile while doing damage, but still can't defend themselves well. They can't do anything to turn the game around.

 

It would seem more efficient to play a class that can help the team win than one that needs an already winning team to reach its full potential. Snipers can do well on maps with perching spots like Quesh and (to a degree) Voidstar where enemies can't easily get to them, but that's about it - and unfortunately utilizing those spots doesn't always coincide with helping the team win.

 

This is why I view most premades as essentially not much more than "guaranteed healers setup" (...which means the 'oh we do it for competitive PvP' excuse is just bullshi*, and its really more about easy matches...).

 

Of course it's bullsh*t. Even an easy win is at least a little bit of fun. Losing a game where you get close to 0 kills and everywhere you go you end up fighting 1vs3 is just frustrating.

Edited April 5, 2016 by wepeel

[Kaedusz]

merc if played correctly

 

interesting

Edited April 5, 2016 by Kaedusz

[DerSchneider]

What? By rocketing out and running, or what?

 

I would say sorcs, ops, PTs and juggernauts.

 

Rocket out is actually very useful.

I'm eating jugs dps on breakfast, when I play gunnery. Same often happening with PT's.

 

Every class is dying under focus, merc is not the only one. Jugg is getting burned through ED if stunbreak and reflect/dash is wasted. Sorc can be globalled by 2 competent burst dps. Same for assassin.

 

interesting

 

Exactly. Requires a little of brain to not rush into melees, but it's doable.

[foxmob]

Sure, mercs and snipers are effective with a solid team, but give any class backup from an attention-grabbing tank, a couple of extra dps and a solid healer, and they will perform well too. In a team that's getting beat snipers and mercs will come under pressure a lot, and that will make at least the sniper's dps drop to near zero. Mercs can be more mobile while doing damage, but still can't defend themselves well. They can't do anything to turn the game around.

 

It would seem more efficient to play a class that can help the team win than one that needs an already winning team to reach its full potential. Snipers can do well on maps with perching spots like Quesh and (to a degree) Voidstar where enemies can't easily get to them, but that's about it - and unfortunately utilizing those spots doesn't always coincide with helping the team win..

did you stop reading before the list? I put them 7 of 8 in solo survivability. right there next to snipers. the only two ACs in the game w/o a focus swap dcd or escape that's worth a damn under focus. but the op did ask about regs, and all 8 classes are more than viable, even as a solo pugger.

Edited April 5, 2016 by foxmob

[wepeel]

did you stop reading before the list? I put them 7 of 8 in solo survivability. right there next to snipers. the only two ACs in the game w/o a focus swap dcd or escape that's worth a damn under focus. but the op did ask about regs, and all 8 classes are more than viable, even as a solo pugger.

 

I read it, I just oppose the argument that a class doing well when it has well-working support and the team is winning anyway is much of a positive.

 

And it depends on what you mean by viable. It's not like they are autokills or can't accomplish anything at all, but, unless you get a winning team from the get-go, it would nearly always favour the team more to replace the sniper or merc with a sorc or PT. If you already have an overwhelming team, then the sniper/merc will possibly add more than another sorc or a jugg. A PT, probably about as much.

 

Every class is dying under focus, merc is not the only one. Jugg is getting burned through ED if stunbreak and reflect/dash is wasted. Sorc can be globalled by 2 competent burst dps. Same for assassin.

 

Apples and oranges really. Possibly with the kind of focus you can bring to bear in a premade, but in a reg pug (the concern of the thread) it's more likely than not that people will attack random targets. And with such "focus" juggs and sorcs have a tremendous survivability advantage over a merc or a sniper.

Edited April 5, 2016 by wepeel

[foxmob]

I read it, I just oppose the argument that a class doing well when it has well-working support and the team is winning anyway is much of a positive.

 

And it depends on what you mean by viable. It's not like they are autokills or can't accomplish anything at all, but, unless you get a winning team from the get-go, it would nearly always favour the team more to replace the sniper or merc with a sorc or PT. If you already have an overwhelming team, then the sniper/merc will possibly add more than another sorc or a jugg. A PT, probably about as much.

 

 

 

Apples and oranges really. Possibly with the kind of focus you can bring to bear in a premade, but in a reg pug (the concern of the thread) it's more likely than not that people will attack random targets. And with such "focus" juggs and sorcs have a tremendous survivability advantage over a merc or a sniper.

I've been running around solo pugging regs on a merc/mando or 3 for the past 3 years. they're MORE than viable in regs, as all classes are.

[wepeel]

I've been running around solo pugging regs on a merc/mando or 3 for the past 3 years. they're MORE than viable in regs, as all classes are.

 

Like I said it depends on what you mean by viable. They're better than an empty spot, but they don't have the inherent potential to turn a game around.

[Kaedusz]

Exactly. Requires a little of brain to not rush into melees, but it's doable.

That means it's a player thing, not a class thing. Other classes have ingrained tools design specifically for them to survive and escape focus. I mean they are so ingrained that it's corny.

 

Mercs are not one of the classes with best survivability by default. That's what makes them fun.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Kaedusz

[wepeel]

That means it's a player thing, not a class thing. Other classes have ingrained tools design specifically for them to survive and escape focus.

 

This. I'm sure a lot of players are awesome and can school anyone, but there are still obvious class differences.

[foxmob]

This. I'm sure a lot of players are awesome and can school anyone, but there are still obvious class differences.

 

...

 

nobody said there weren't class difference. in regs, however, there are A LOT of ppl who don't play their classes to their full potential. thus, a good player can make any AC shine. and no, it has nothing to do with already being on the better team. stop trying to make everything about class. I'm not saying there isn't a balance problem. but if you can't play effectively and never influence the outcome of a game (positively) on a merc, I assure, that's a user error issue. I've been the best player and turned around many a game on my merc, and I'm far from the best person behind a merc.

 

we're talking about regs, man. regs. there's A LOT of space between the average player and the potential ceiling of the AC he's playing on. thus, while some guy on his sorc might have an easier time dpsing or healing on his sorc, he's not doing what his class is capable of. meanwhile if I am playing my merc near it's skill cap, I'm going to outplay him in many (if not all) tangible measurements. that is why all specs are viable. most players in regs don't touch the skill cap of the ACs. so while 7 other ACs might have the potential of being better than mercs, you can outperform them...in regs. in ranked, even solo ranked, good luck. but in regs? dude. if you can't do well there, it's you.

[Kaedusz]

we're talking about regs, man. regs.

 

What else is there? Ranked queue went the way of the dodo a long time ago.

 

It's amazing how sometimes people say ''regs'' as if there is another form of PvP, after PvP servers died. World PvP dead, ranked dead, regs is all there is.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Kordine]

Stealth then Sorc/Sage. Without knowing more about what the op may also want.

[wepeel]

we're talking about regs, man. regs. there's A LOT of space between the average player and the potential ceiling of the AC he's playing on. thus, while some guy on his sorc might have an easier time dpsing or healing on his sorc, he's not doing what his class is capable of. meanwhile if I am playing my merc near it's skill cap, I'm going to outplay him in many (if not all) tangible measurements. that is why all specs are viable. most players in regs don't touch the skill cap of the ACs. so while 7 other ACs might have the potential of being better than mercs, you can outperform them...in regs. in ranked, even solo ranked, good luck. but in regs? dude. if you can't do well there, it's you.

 

In an ideal reg matchup with roughly the same amount of healers, player skill and cooperation, then yes. But as you may have experienced, many servers tend to have one side winning most of them, all else being equal. I won't go into the possible reasons for this, but when you're in a reg that gets dominated by one side, getting a chance to utilize your personal skill as a player becomes more and more difficult. With your team spending so much time spawning, you'll always be outnumbered in the field. You can't count on being able to stay unseen at range while your frontline engages the opposition; you can't even count on finding a 1 vs 1. This is obviously a tough situation for anyone, but some classes handle this better than others, and snipers and mercs are not among those.

 

At this point in a reg you also often see actually competent players leave the warzone as they realize they can't really do anything; and also of course the players who think they're uber will start flaming the rest of the group before quitting. At least one in every wz.

[Bobbafatter]

Dont't bother, it's more fun to troll the premade losers.

[Volxen]

tweaked t hat a bit. they're very good in regs. but they're also very easy to shutdown. you need teammates in front of you. mercs don't have the tool set to escape or tank multiple DPS. same for snipers more or less.

 

if you're rolling WZs on your own (DPS only list), then it's stealth first b/c they can fully disengage if things get hairy

 

1. op/sin
   
2. sorc is actually the best (most complete) but you can't just disengage if the the going gets too rough.
   
3. warrior class is next. it's more your playstyle preference. mara will do more meaningful burst but requires more precise dcd management. jugg has a good burst and a good sustained/spread spec, but you never really duck out the way a mara does. it's more straightforward and forgiving with lower burst ceiling.
   
4. PT cannot be kited. can stay out of a lot of the melee units' attacks. having both a pull and a leap is funzies.
   
5. merc on your own, you shouldn't last long. with teammates in front of you, and heals "behind" you, you're a wrecking ball (2nd to a good carny imo).
   
6. sniper - same as merc. minus the heals. takes more precision than merc. kinda like a mara vs. jugg in that sense. both are very vulnerable to multiple attackers (compared to other classes ranked above)
   

 

this is just my solo survivability list. if you want to be able to extricate yourself from a hairy situation or last the longest in one. there's nothing wrong with merc or sniper. they just are more dependent on having teammates in front of them to stand between their attackers and themselves. sorcs are more capable of maintaining that space themselves, tanking for short periods, and escaping. otherwise, they'd be much lower too.

 

Any particular recommendation as far as op vs sin? I've never really played either of the two stealth classes before, so I don't know their respective strengths and weaknesses.

[Arehonn]

Sorc/Sage and Guardian/Jugg are the cream of the crop when it comes to doing their roles under fire and being able to survive. Ruffian/Lethality who isn't brain dead can fall in the first tier as well.

 

The bottom tier would be Gunslinger/Sniper and Commando/Merc. Yes, there are the outliers who are great and make these two classes a beast to kill while pumping out DPS, but those are the exception to the rule. The majority who play these two can be easily shutdown under focus fire and killed quickly.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Arehonn