Do Madness Sorcs REALLY top 4k dps?

[thebutthat]

Lmao it has been confirmed boiz, Dacri doesn´t know how to madness.

 

Dacri? Never heard of her.

[foxmob]

Stop saying it's fluff. It's a pressure damage. While sorcses aoe puts a lot of pressure on heals, burst classes should sweep in and finish off targets. Pressure will do great things. I've seen it many times when constant pressure wears down tanks and healers slowly until they all die roughly at the same time.

It is not fluff, it is a very serious damage, and don't say otherwise.

 

yeah. I mean. I thought that it was taken for granted at this point that since what? 2.0-something when dots were uncleansable, all aoe/dot dmg was significant. but I'm not going to argue on the internet about it. been there with mercs.

 

I do agree that with all of the sorc/sage healers around, you can just sit in force storm and cast (2 storms, tbh). but I also moved out if a burst was going to tunnel me. iunno. maybe ppl are too focused on debating these things in a vacuum. if ALL you have are a couple sorc spamming storm, then no. ofc you're not killing anything.

[ace_boogie]

Only time it really seems like fluff is when you're the only dps or when the enemy team's healers outnumber your teams dps. Otherwise it kills just fine.

[power-alex]

Only time it really seems like fluff is when you're the only dps or when the enemy team's healers outnumber your teams dps. Otherwise it kills just fine.

 

well said. People should just try to play marauders or jugs without heals against a couple of madness sorcs and then come back and say how much fluff it is

[Kiojin]

A large part of being able to crank out the dps on a madness sorc is not being targeted first and proper rotation.

[Icykill_]

well said. People should just try to play marauders or jugs without heals against a couple of madness sorcs and then come back and say how much fluff it is

 

Hahahaha... I play all of them, from Maddess Sorc to Jugg... If you can't handle a couple of madness Sorcs on your Jugg then you need to practice... Maras a little more difficult...

People missed my "fluff" point. It is only fluff if you sit there spamming force storm to stack your figures. Force storm is tactical, not part of the rotation.

Of course Maddess is a pressure spec, your dots are supposed to strain the healers and tanks to the limit while your burst DPS finish them off. Dots aren't fluff. Spamming Force Storm is fluff. If you want to AOE and do high numbers that actually contribute to your team, then you should be using death field as well as spreading dots to those people outside of death field. Those dots do a lot more pressure damage than Force Storm.

There are only a few occasions that you should use it, all are tactical.

Ie, people are trying to spam cap void star doors or some other node hard.

A bunch of healers are all standing together and not moving. Use it, but make sure you have your dots/death field up as soon as it's off CD.

Or to just make them move. No one with a brain stands in it for long. So if you want them to move from a spot, drop it on them. You only need a few ticks and they should move.

Other than those examples, you are better off using your dots, death field, force lightning etc to pressure a team.

[Kakisback]

Why not just play Lightning kappa http://imgur.com/VvtoQnV

[Icykill_]

Why not just play Lightning kappa http://imgur.com/VvtoQnV

 

Lightning is more fun or it was till they nerfed single target burst mistakenly when they were supposed to nerf Force Storm back when everyone was complaining about it after 3.0... They finally got around to nerfing FS... But never reversed single burst damage.. I guess they didn't want to admit they made a mistake.

[Opaknack]

I'd consider myself a (slightly) above average madness sorc. I'm almost always near the top of the charts in total damage, objectives, and medals (PLUS I actually call out incoming and/or help those who do ). Yet I can't seem to top the 2k dps mark. If these 4k dps madnees sorcs really exist what's their secret? What's their "rotation" and gear look like?

I have seen a screenshot of a madnes sorc with 6k dps in voidstar.

[LadyDarkkitten]

Hahahaha... I play all of them, from Maddess Sorc to Jugg... If you can't handle a couple of madness Sorcs on your Jugg then you need to practice... Maras a little more difficult...

People missed my "fluff" point. It is only fluff if you sit there spamming force storm to stack your figures. Force storm is tactical, not part of the rotation.

Of course Maddess is a pressure spec, your dots are supposed to strain the healers and tanks to the limit while your burst DPS finish them off. Dots aren't fluff. Spamming Force Storm is fluff. If you want to AOE and do high numbers that actually contribute to your team, then you should be using death field as well as spreading dots to those people outside of death field. Those dots do a lot more pressure damage than Force Storm.

There are only a few occasions that you should use it, all are tactical.

Ie, people are trying to spam cap void star doors or some other node hard.

A bunch of healers are all standing together and not moving. Use it, but make sure you have your dots/death field up as soon as it's off CD.

Or to just make them move. No one with a brain stands in it for long. So if you want them to move from a spot, drop it on them. You only need a few ticks and they should move.

Other than those examples, you are better off using your dots, death field, force lightning etc to pressure a team.

 

Stack any range class, 2 mercs 2snipers 2 sorcs and a melee will have issues. Its not a l2p issue if a jug gets wrecked by madness. Whats more interesting is what happens to madness when they go up against other ranged classes. I think thats why I'm enjoying my merc more then my sorc tbh. Yea madness takes a dump over melee, but a merc kills ranged and can avoid melee with smart play (postioning, engaging 4v2 not 1v4)

 

On topic why are you focusing on damage numbers? I never even look at those all they tell you is if the other team had healers and if you spent the entire match in combat as opposed to actually guarding and responding to call outs. To many people treat the 8s like its a death match, kill farming in corners and aoeing. Nuke the healer! peel for your healer! and when you hear snow 2 inc start moving!

[Lhancelot]

 

On topic why are you focusing on damage numbers? I never even look at those all they tell you is if the other team had healers and if you spent the entire match in combat as opposed to actually guarding and responding to call outs. To many people treat the 8s like its a death match, kill farming in corners and aoeing. Nuke the healer! peel for your healer! and when you hear snow 2 inc start moving!

 

Because it's fun looking at numbers?

 

You can do everything you said in a match, and still find interesting points in the numbers/stats.

 

Just because someone looks at numbers and likes to guage their performance off the stats doesn't mean they are not incorporating what they did in the warzone along with those numbers.

 

If I guard a node, I like to look at the numbers just to see how much damage I did while guarding.

 

If i am on a dps class that can taunt, I like to see my protection and compare it to regular tanks that put guard on people.

 

Why? It's fun.

 

On a side note, I honestly find anyone that says "numbers don't matter!" typically are not very good at putting up numbers.

 

I aint saying they are bad teammates, as long as they aint derping while they guard allowing a cap without warning etc., I aint too worried when some people put up low numbers...

 

But like it or not, numbers typically indicate a player's performance in the warzone, and they add motivation to make oneself better by comparing older stats to newer stats.

 

How can you ever know if you are getting better, if you don't look at your numbers? I call BS on this btw, you look at numbers too, you probably just don't like what you see.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Lhancelot

[kweassa]

Because it's fun looking at numbers?

 

You can do everything you said in a match, and still find interesting points in the numbers/stats.

 

Just because someone looks at numbers and likes to guage their performance off the stats doesn't mean they are not incorporating what they did in the warzone along with those numbers.

 

If I guard a node, I like to look at the numbers just to see how much damage I did while guarding.

 

If i am on a dps class that can taunt, I like to see my protection and compare it to regular tanks that put guard on people.

 

Why? It's fun.

 

On a side note, I honestly find anyone that says "numbers don't matter!" typically are not very good at putting up numbers.

 

I aint saying they are bad teammates, as long as they aint derping while they guard allowing a cap without warning etc., I aint too worried when some people put up low numbers...

 

But like it or not, numbers typically indicate a player's performance in the warzone, and they add motivation to make oneself better by comparing older stats to newer stats.

 

How can you ever know if you are getting better, if you don't look at your numbers? I call BS on this btw, you look at numbers too, you probably just don't like what you see.

 

Numbers merely sketch a rough outline of a certain tendency at best. It simply portrays a certain amount of performance margin under conditions which you personally feel comfortable where you are free to leisurely rotate certain powers as close to as one's own theoretical maximum. I'm sorry for dragging in another premade argument, but typically if you're in a premade where the team you are in is very likely to win, you're at least twice... three times... four times more likely to have such leisure where everything is covered by everyone in your group where people babysit each other 24/7.

 

Compared to that, some of the few, experienced Rep players teamed alongside all the hordes of casuals and newbies in a clearly disadvantaged situation, fighting against superior numbers of good players in the Imp side, would typically show less than half the numbers of an average Imp player and yet I'd not rate them any less than any of those premades.

 

When's the last time you in your premade group had to just jump into a suicidal situation to desperately stop a cap twice... three times... four times.... as many times as necessary? Do this in a match and your score just plummets -- except regardless of the scores, a player doing such actions clearly 'takes one for the team', over and over again. Happens a lot when you're not playing in a privileged faction where every luxury is provided to you.

 

I will admit that scoreboard numbers are meaningful in a game where both sides are evenly matched, equally well developed as a team -- in which case the overall conditions being similar, a difference in maximum output of heals, DPS or protection would depict a more or less reliable pattern that closely resembles a player's maximum performance. However, a typical, normal, average reg WZ match, and basically the scoreboard is nothing but a type of mental mastu**ation. The scoreboard doesn't tell you how many friends you've saved, how many good plays you've made, how many caps you stopped desperately, and just in general how well you did.

 

As a matter of fact, it is actually more likely that high scoreboard numbers are an indicator of how dull and boring the match was, since typically it means that both sides were flooding sorc/sage heals. Like mentioned in that other "4k DPS sorc" thread, super high DPS/heals/taunts all happen in the most boring matches where nobody dies.

 

Since nobody dies:

 

- all the DPS live long enough to do their max damage rotations forever = high DPS

- tanks live forever = guards healers forever = enemy DPS hit your healer forever = super high protection

- healers heal nonstop to keep everyone alive forever = super high heals

 

Is this an indicator of how good the players are? Not to me it ain't.

[Lhancelot]

Numbers merely sketch a rough outline of a certain tendency at best. It simply portrays a certain amount of performance margin under conditions which you personally feel comfortable where you are free to leisurely rotate certain powers as close to as one's own theoretical maximum. I'm sorry for dragging in another premade argument, but typically if you're in a premade where the team you are in is very likely to win, you're at least twice... three times... four times more likely to have such leisure where everything is covered by everyone in your group where people babysit each other 24/7.

 

Compared to that, some of the few, experienced Rep players teamed alongside all the hordes of casuals and newbies in a clearly disadvantaged situation, fighting against superior numbers of good players in the Imp side, would typically show less than half the numbers of an average Imp player and yet I'd not rate them any less than any of those premades.

 

When's the last time you in your premade group had to just jump into a suicidal situation to desperately stop a cap twice... three times... four times.... as many times as necessary? Do this in a match and your score just plummets -- except regardless of the scores, a player doing such actions clearly 'takes one for the team', over and over again. Happens a lot when you're not playing in a privileged faction where every luxury is provided to you.

 

I will admit that scoreboard numbers are meaningful in a game where both sides are evenly matched, equally well developed as a team -- in which case the overall conditions being similar, a difference in maximum output of heals, DPS or protection would depict a more or less reliable pattern that closely resembles a player's maximum performance. However, a typical, normal, average reg WZ match, and basically the scoreboard is nothing but a type of mental mastu**ation. The scoreboard doesn't tell you how many friends you've saved, how many good plays you've made, how many caps you stopped desperately, and just in general how well you did.

 

As a matter of fact, it is actually more likely that high scoreboard numbers are an indicator of how dull and boring the match was, since typically it means that both sides were flooding sorc/sage heals. Like mentioned in that other "4k DPS sorc" thread, super high DPS/heals/taunts all happen in the most boring matches where nobody dies.

 

Since nobody dies:

 

- all the DPS live long enough to do their max damage rotations forever = high DPS

- tanks live forever = guards healers forever = enemy DPS hit your healer forever = super high protection

- healers heal nonstop to keep everyone alive forever = super high heals

 

Is this an indicator of how good the players are? Not to me it ain't.

 

 

There are always exceptions, and sitautions which can heavily dictate what kind of statistics you have in a match, we all know this.

 

That being said, I never seen a totally awful player put up phenomenal numbers, ever.

 

I have seen great players not put up great numbers.

 

If numbers tell you one thing, they let you know who is capable on their toon and who is not.

 

Over time, once you become familiar with players you know who perform well and who doesn't, and you learn the most by what kind of numbers they put up consistently.

 

I don't care how awesome a team is playing objectively, if there are no players on the team that can do over 350dps, you are going to lose this match. You have to have some competent players that not only play objectively but do put up good numbers healing, dpsing, etc.

[KashyyykForest]

Yup they do.

 

http://imgur.com/a/bol1T

 

Ok that was a bit tongue in cheek, but Telekinetic spec is my favorite thing in this game so I had to post it. Probably more a result of Bioware's matchmaking then anything else though.

 

As others have said, it doesn't really show much other then 1) you weren't pressured much(enemy dps could have done better) 2) you know your rotation. 3) opposing team had lots of heals(so minimal downtime on dpsing), and probably stood near each other for easy AOE. So basically dummy parsing.

 

Only thinking about doing damage has downsides too. Chances are if your going for super high dps you aren't doing other potentially more productive things as well as you could, like peeling for your healer, using off heals on teammates in need, mez targets so a teammate can cap an objective, etc. As those are a dps loss.

 

Having decent dps is critical if that is your role(some emphasize 'objective' play too much), just try not to get lose sight of other things too, even though I know it's fun to farm dps at times heh.

 

Satisfaction playing pvp can come from many things. For example, a while ago I was playing a Ancient Hypergate with my guild. One of my teammates playing a commando dps was entering back into the center area under heavy fire, down to about 25% health and falling fast. I was standing up about 25-30m away on the incline inside the room. I quickly used Force Pull, and saved him as he was out of los from the enemies. Then he used his jet jump power and went back to the healer, as he said in voice chat "Nice Pull!".

 

Wish more emphasis was placed on those other aspects of pvp too.

Edited April 5, 2016 by KashyyykForest

[Kakisback]

Lightning is more fun or it was till they nerfed single target burst mistakenly when they were supposed to nerf Force Storm back when everyone was complaining about it after 3.0... They finally got around to nerfing FS... But never reversed single burst damage.. I guess they didn't want to admit they made a mistake.

 

why are you responding seriously. Just say "grats on the 4500 Ling dps m8"