Game has died, Nowhere to go

[Tsillah]

A sign that the population has dropped obviously. Guild ships have been out since 2014.

 

Not obviously...possibly. When guild ships came out people didn't just get them and started using them regularly overnight. So it's possible that it could be a sign of a drop in population but it's far from inconclusive.

 

And I guess you just said that the number of fleet instances haven't dropped, so who to believe...

[Jadescythe]

There is really only one test necessary to know if the population is a problem and if the "Game has died". Is there any portion of the game that you can no longer participate in due to population issues? The only areas that is accurate for are solo and group ranked PvP, which are dependent on time of day. I have no problems getting PUG ops going, reg PvP, finding items on the GTN, getting FP pops, etc. on the Harbinger. I pass by numerous players on every planet while leveling. The server isn't dead and I haven't noticed a significant change in my ability to find anything other than progression raiders over the last 6 months and we all know why that well dried up.

[TUXs]

Not obviously...possibly. When guild ships came out people didn't just get them and started using them regularly overnight. So it's possible that it could be a sign of a drop in population but it's far from inconclusive.

 

And I guess you just said that the number of fleet instances haven't dropped, so who to believe...

The number of fleet instances HAS dropped. I misread what you had stated, sorry about that.

 

When I started on Harb almost a year ago, we would have 3-4 Pub fleets every night I played. Today, we get 2, and until this past weekend, one was usually very close to empty (20-40 people regularly).

 

What would you conclude from that?

[DarthDymond]

We do have Odessan now, I mean to use a WoW example the population in Shattrath did drop off once Dalaran was added.

[Jedi_riches]

We do have Odessan now, I mean to use a WoW example the population in Shattrath did drop off once Dalaran was added.

 

Would make sense, if people want to run stuff like star fortresses, they are going to be there rather than asking on the fleet.

 

But has anyone done a time series analysis on the populations of Odessan?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Jedi_riches

[commanderwar]

A sign that the population has dropped obviously. Guild ships have been out since 2014.

 

Well you got to admit since 4.0 it has been a lot easier and faster to buy guild ships since of heroics. Now we can buy ship in a few week even if 5 to 6 guild member are doing it.

[TUXs]

Well you got to admit since 4.0 it has been a lot easier and faster to buy guild ships since of heroics. Now we can buy ship in a few week even if 5 to 6 guild member are doing it.

Absolutely true!!!

[Tsillah]

The number of fleet instances HAS dropped. I misread what you had stated, sorry about that.

 

When I started on Harb almost a year ago, we would have 3-4 Pub fleets every night I played. Today, we get 2, and until this past weekend, one was usually very close to empty (20-40 people regularly).

 

What would you conclude from that?

 

The only thing I can conclude from that: that there are fewer people on the pub fleet on your server than before.

 

Why that is, however, I cannot conclude from that. That's all speculation.

 

As I said, people like to fill in the holes themselves, but that's not factual, that's people meshing their beliefs into the facts and then thinking they're still being factual. They're not...they're speculating.

 

Now, it may be true that there are fewer people playing overall on your server. I am not contesting that possibility. But I am saying that this fact of fewer instances by itself doesn't prove that.

[TUXs]

The only thing I can conclude from that: that there are fewer people on the pub fleet on your server than before.

 

Why that is, however, I cannot conclude from that. That's all speculation.

 

As I said, people like to fill in the holes themselves, but that's not factual, that's people meshing their beliefs into the facts and then thinking they're still being factual. They're not...they're speculating.

 

Now, it may be true that there are fewer people playing overall on your server. I am not contesting that possibility. But I am saying that this fact of fewer instances by itself doesn't prove that.

That's fine, you can conclude whatever you like. Most people don't need to pretend there's a reason other than the obvious.

[Jadescythe]

The number of fleet instances HAS dropped. I misread what you had stated, sorry about that.

 

When I started on Harb almost a year ago, we would have 3-4 Pub fleets every night I played. Today, we get 2, and until this past weekend, one was usually very close to empty (20-40 people regularly).

 

What would you conclude from that?

 

The main fleet lurkers have always been end game PvP and PvE players. Now that we're like 2 years into the same raids, a lot of that population isn't sitting around on fleet a lot anymore. Some of them may be elsewhere and some of them may be on hiatus for now.

[Tsillah]

That's fine, you can conclude whatever you like. Most people don't need to pretend there's a reason other than the obvious.

 

That's unnecessarily crude of you. You basically decided it was an obvious sign but that's your belief. I try to keep belief and assumption out of this. You are the one pretending that it has a specific meaning without knowing the reason.

 

It's equally possible that there are fewer people on the fleet because of the guild ships. As someone else mentioned to you, it's entirely much more easy for guilds to get guild ships since 4.0 is out. So why would you discount that possibility? Because you call it obvious, but it's only obvious if you choose to ignore other possibilities that are actually plausible.

 

It's a shame but typical.

[DieAlteHexe]

The main fleet lurkers have always been end game PvP and PvE players. Now that we're like 2 years into the same raids, a lot of that population isn't sitting around on fleet a lot anymore. Some of them may be elsewhere and some of them may be on hiatus for now.

 

I agree with this. I rarely go to Fleet anymore. I don't hang out there anymore. I'm either in Odessen or on our guild ship or in my strongholds. When the game released there weren't very many alternate places to hang out. Now, whether everyone else is doing this, I've no clue nor does anyone else aside from anecdotal info. Well, EA/BW knows.

[TUXs]

That's unnecessarily crude of you. You basically decided it was an obvious sign but that's your belief. I try to keep belief and assumption out of this. You are the one pretending that it has a specific meaning without knowing the reason.

Crude? Wow lol...

 

It does have a specific meaning and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out the reason for the decline.

[Max_Killjoy]

I knew I should have invested in the Movable Goalposts Company.

 

No doubt... as long as there's an internet or politics, they'll always be selling a ton of those things.

 

These "game is dying" threads are particularly rich markets, along with the "GTN economy is going down in flames and taking the game with it!" threads.

 

 

I agree with this. I rarely go to Fleet anymore. I don't hang out there anymore. I'm either in Odessen or on our guild ship or in my strongholds. When the game released there weren't very many alternate places to hang out. Now, whether everyone else is doing this, I've no clue nor does anyone else aside from anecdotal info. Well, EA/BW knows.

 

I avoid fleet like the plague -- especially during the times when there really is a plague.

 

 

Crude? Wow lol...

 

It does have a specific meaning and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out the reason for the decline.

 

TUX... I do think there's a bit of "arguing from the conclusion" going on when it comes to what lower fleet population counts or lower instance numbers is actually caused by. And it's certainly not like you to veer into MCB-MO-BRO territory and accuse people who don't share your conclusion of being willfully blind or something.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[Tsillah]

Crude? Wow lol...

 

It does have a specific meaning and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out the reason for the decline.

 

 

Yes, crude for accusing me of pretending, while you're the one who's making things up.

 

I am applying logic here and you choose to ignore logic because you've already made up your mind.

 

Oh and it's a rocket scientist and not a surgeon...the term rocket surgeon does exist as an urban dictionary entry referring to someone who in essence doesn't know the difference between a surgeon and a scientist...in this case you.

 

And with that you prove yourself wrong because it does indeed take a rocket surgeon to jump to such conclusions, because a rocket scientist, which is an actual profession, would know better than to jump to such conclusions.

[Max_Killjoy]

Yes, crude for accusing me of pretending, while you're the one who's making things up.

 

I am applying logic here and you choose to ignore logic because you've already made up your mind.

 

Oh and it's a rocket scientist and not a surgeon...the term rocket surgeon does exist as an urban dictionary entry referring to someone who in essence doesn't know the difference between a surgeon and a scientist...in this case you.

 

And with that you prove yourself wrong because it does indeed take a rocket surgeon to jump to such conclusions, because a rocket scientist, which is an actual profession, would know better than to jump to such conclusions.

 

As a side note -- my RL friends have been using the term "rocket surgery" for a long time, probably since before the quaint little snot-bubble that is "urban dictionary" even existed.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[TUXs]

Yes, crude for accusing me of pretending, while you're the one who's making things up.

 

I am applying logic here and you choose to ignore logic because you've already made up your mind.

What did I make up Tsillah? That there are less Fleet instances? What exactly are you accusing me of making up?

 

Oh and it's a rocket scientist and not a surgeon...the term rocket surgeon does exist as an urban dictionary entry referring to someone who in essence doesn't know the difference between a surgeon and a scientist...in this case you.

 

And with that you prove yourself wrong because it does indeed take a rocket surgeon to jump to such conclusions, because a rocket scientist, which is an actual profession, would know better than to jump to such conclusions.

Humor isn't your strong point is it?

[commanderwar]

We do have Odessan now, I mean to use a WoW example the population in Shattrath did drop off once Dalaran was added.

 

I think oddesson and the heroics have divide up the population. When I go to oddesson when there is no chapter release I see 2 or 3 instances there, I saw three this morning. I rarely hang out in the fleet anymore. I do heroics decorate strongholds or on oddesson.

Edited April 29, 2016 by commanderwar

[Tsillah]

What did I make up Tsillah? That there are less Fleet instances? What exactly are you accusing me of making up?

 

You say that the reason for there being fewer instances is obvious. That's not true. That's what you're making up. As I said al along it's not the fact that there are fewer instances that's being disputed but your assumptions about what that means.

 

Humor isn't your strong point is it?

 

Let's just say I buy that and add as a comment that you hid it very well.

[TUXs]

You say that the reason for there being fewer instances is obvious. That's not true. That's what you're making up. As I said al along it's not the fact that there are fewer instances that's being disputed but your assumptions about what that means.

 

Let's just say I buy that and add as a comment that you hid it very well.

It's ok...you just made this all very clear to me.

 

If "rocket surgeon" was that well hidden to you, I can see why the obvious conclusion to me, is not is not the same conclusion you would make.

[Jadescythe]

It's ok...you just made this all very clear to me.

 

If "rocket surgeon" was that well hidden to you, I can see why the obvious conclusion to me, is not is not the same conclusion you would make.

 

I think your implied conclusions just contradict the only facts we've seen. As reported by EA, SWTOR is as populated as it's been for quite some time. Your assumption that fewer people on fleet means a lower population overall is only an assumption with no factual basis. You're taking a fact (fleet population) and applying it as you see the game. I used to be on fleet all the time, but now rarely find myself sitting on fleet unless I'm queuing warzones and want to be there to buy gear every few matches. With a GTN, vendor, and storage in my SH, I have no reason to be on fleet anymore unless I'm specifically spending comms.

[TUXs]

I think your implied conclusions just contradict the only facts we've seen. As reported by EA, SWTOR is as populated as it's been for quite some time. Your assumption that fewer people on fleet means a lower population overall is only an assumption with no factual basis. You're taking a fact (fleet population) and applying it as you see the game. I used to be on fleet all the time, but now rarely find myself sitting on fleet unless I'm queuing warzones and want to be there to buy gear every few matches. With a GTN, vendor, and storage in my SH, I have no reason to be on fleet anymore unless I'm specifically spending comms.

My observations. They aren't conclusions.

[Thoronmir]

As a side note -- my RL friends have been using the term "rocket surgery" for a long time, probably since before the quaint little snot-bubble that is "urban dictionary" even existed.

It's called a malapropism and, while often unintended, is sometimes used intentionally for humorous effect.

 

As for Urban Dictionary, I went the website, entered my age, and was locked out from ever using it.

[Jadescythe]

My observations. They aren't conclusions.

 

Your observation is few fleet instances. Your conclusion is that population is dwindling.

[TUXs]

Your observation is few fleet instances. Your conclusion is that population is dwindling.

You can believe anything you want Jade.