Game has died, Nowhere to go

[IanArgent]

I well believe that the PvP servers are basically ghost towns at this point; as the OWPvP play style that they supported is basically dead in the game.

 

I also offer one note about Harb in particular - the hamsters running that particular server appear to have been overworked, and the high population may have had other negative QoL impact besides. Perhaps the "missing" players transferred out to other servers in the face of downtime etc.

[TUXs]

I well believe that the PvP servers are basically ghost towns at this point; as the OWPvP play style that they supported is basically dead in the game.

 

I also offer one note about Harb in particular - the hamsters running that particular server appear to have been overworked, and the high population may have had other negative QoL impact besides. Perhaps the "missing" players transferred out to other servers in the face of downtime etc.

I don't know about that...Harb has been stable since I moved here so I don't think it's a problem with stability, although you're correct, that was a major issue at one time, and one we were warned about when we moved there. If anything, I think what may be happening on Harb could be more indicative of the lack of PvE content we're suffering through right now...which could also explain why EH hasn't seen the same trend - assuming RPers aren't nearly as dependent on Developer action as PvPers and PvEers are?!

[TUXs]

You're also not the one who said that anyone who won't "admit" to the "plummeting" population of SWTOR has "their head in the sand".

Max, I'll say this one more time...I was speaking of Harbinger only. Not EH.

[IanArgent]

I don't know about that...Harb has been stable since I moved here so I don't think it's a problem with stability, although you're correct, that was a major issue at one time, and one we were warned about when we moved there. If anything, I think what may be happening on Harb could be more indicative of the lack of PvE content we're suffering through right now...which could also explain why EH hasn't seen the same trend - assuming RPers aren't nearly as dependent on Developer action as PvPers and PvEers are?!

 

PvE content is more than Ops; they're dropping a new chapter once a month. It might not be your cup of tea, but it is PvE content.

[Max_Killjoy]

Max, I'll say this one more time...I was speaking of Harbinger only. Not EH.

 

Did I say you weren't?

 

"You're also not the one who said..." -- the post in question wasn't directed at you.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[TUXs]

Did I say you weren't?

 

"You're also not the one who said..." -- the post in question wasn't directed at you.

Sorry...my bad Just trying to play nice and get to anyone replying to me.

[TUXs]

PvE content is more than Ops; they're dropping a new chapter once a month. It might not be your cup of tea, but it is PvE content.

I enjoy all sorts of PvE stuff...I loved the story 1-9...10 and 11 were terrible, 12 was back to being good, but it was made for the Knight, not my mando...I can't imagine how odd it'd be for a BH or Smuggler.

 

Is one chapter per month really enough?

[Jadescythe]

PvE content is more than Ops; they're dropping a new chapter once a month. It might not be your cup of tea, but it is PvE content.

 

It's generally accepted that PvE players are referred to in terms of end game PvE. There isn't really a name for players who enjoy the type of content SWTOR is releasing as it is generally just released with expansions as a means to an end to hit a new level cap. I don't disagre that it's PvE content, but you can't pretend you didn't know what he was talking about. These new chapters are not what anyone doing group PvE content is hoping to see more of.

[Pagy]

I enjoy all sorts of PvE stuff...I loved the story 1-9...10 and 11 were terrible, 12 was back to being good, but it was made for the Knight, not my mando...I can't imagine how odd it'd be for a BH or Smuggler.

 

Is one chapter per month really enough?

in my mind, getting a new chapter per month is AMAZING with regards to what i'd expect from an MMO.

 

what was horrifyingly bad was the lack of new repeatable content in the expansion. can you imagine how happy we'd be with these chapters if we actually had something else to do at endgame like new ops, new fps?

 

instead, the ONLY new content are these quest chapters. unless you want to run tfb for the 1000th time.

[IanArgent]

I enjoy all sorts of PvE stuff...I loved the story 1-9...10 and 11 were terrible, 12 was back to being good, but it was made for the Knight, not my mando...I can't imagine how odd it'd be for a BH or Smuggler.

 

Is one chapter per month really enough?

 

That is the $64,000 question, the one only BW has the answers to. FWIW, I think (and Max has posted to this end as well) that they ought to do more for PvP and group PvE. This is an MMO, take advantage of it. They did just add a new arena and a new warzone for PvP, but nothing beyond platitudes for group PvE. I don't have a good answer here, either. Given that the Eternal Championship was delayed for at least 2 months, it appears they are unable to develop "mechanical" bosses in a rapid timeframe.

[Max_Killjoy]

It's generally accepted that PvE players are referred to in terms of end game PvE. There isn't really a name for players who enjoy the type of content SWTOR is releasing as it is generally just released with expansions as a means to an end to hit a new level cap. I don't disagre that it's PvE content, but you can't pretend you didn't know what he was talking about. These new chapters are not what anyone doing group PvE content is hoping to see more of.

 

I've always used PvE to refer to any "player vs the game" content in an MMO.

 

That some players think that PvE means Operations / Raids / endgame has more to do, I think, with the "endgame or GTHO" attitude that a certain slice of the MMO community can't get out of their heads.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[IanArgent]

It's generally accepted that PvE players are referred to in terms of end game PvE. There isn't really a name for players who enjoy the type of content SWTOR is releasing as it is generally just released with expansions as a means to an end to hit a new level cap. I don't disagre that it's PvE content, but you can't pretend you didn't know what he was talking about. These new chapters are not what anyone doing group PvE content is hoping to see more of.

 

I question the assumption that raid-format endgame PvE is an activity that even a large plurality of the player base participates in. For one thing, it's behind a harsh F2P/Preferred lockout; harsh enough that I would expect it's a subscriber-only activity. KotFE is behind its own paywall, though, so that's a wash. However, the only actual data point I've seen about raid-format popularity is the old "10% of players have ever raided" from a long time ago in a game far away; though that factoid is unsurprisingly difficult to pin down to a source in a quick google search.

 

If only a small minority participates in raids; and, anecdotally, it's certainly the hardest group activity to pug into (PvP>TFP>HMFP>SM Ops>HM Ops> NiM Ops, with the last two being basically impossible to pug into and rightfully so by difficulty even if Ops in general were more accessible); and it takes a disproportionate share of resources to develop properly, compared to chapter story, Star Fortresses, or PvP, then something's gotta give.

[Jadescythe]

I've always used PvE to refer to any "player vs the game" content in an MMO.

 

That some players think that PvE means Operations / Raids / endgame has more to do, I think, with the "endgame or GTHO" attitude that a certain slice of the MMO community can't get out of their heads.

 

I tend to think of story, dailies, crafting, etc. as just playing the game. Everyone plays the game. Some people choose to do end game group activities past that, which are separated into PvE or PvP. That's why I would never consider someone doing chapters or leveling as a "PvE" player, just a player.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Even so...that doesn't change the fact that a year ago, Harb had 4 Pub Fleets (2 full, 2 filling) active and now we're lucky to get 2...the second one usually being <40 players. The population per instance hasn't changed since that time.

 

A year ago? Really? I personally found the game far more dead a year than I do now ... that was the dull days after SoR and the mess that was ravagers and ToS that scared away all casual raiders and new comers to them.

 

Granted that was apac times and all I have to go off is my gut feeling and how easily I could find a pug so no tangible evidence like you have?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You do realize most people these days aren't on fleet more then picking up Operation quests/PvP quests. the rest of the time they are in there SH's parked doing things or on planets. Fleet has become useless to hang out in. Most servers have some form of an End game PvE content channel (name varies depending on the server/faction) for pugging Ops, and everything else is just a queu. So just looking at the people on Fleet as a population check is completely inaccurate now.

 

I tend to agree with the above, especially since odessan. I personally avoid fleet as much as possible.

 

What about guild ships though? Do you count for the instance count if on guild ship? I've often found that an easy way to still get the pug chat from fleet and the easier layout to do all my storage/selling ( especially since fleet as no legacy storage ).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Perhaps you are correct too - I just realized EH is an RP server. I know the RP servers used a different threshold than PvE/PvP servers did for light, standard, full...so maybe this change was directed at RP servers...which explains why you saw a change I didn't.

 

Jade was correct in the Fleet capacity of POT5 and Harb remaining the same though. From the best I can tell, around the 140-150 mark, a second instance opens up and caps at 175 naturally, 180's is the very highest I've ever seen it, and I imagine that is from groups of players zoning in at one time, "breaking" the cap that seems to be set at 175. It's been this way as long as I can recall on both servers.

 

Back when Ilum was a PvP zone, we would often break the "cap" (which I think was 50 players) by getting one player into the instance we wanted and then joining that players group...when it was 45 Imps and 5 pubs, you knew you'd have no chance, so we often swapped instances to find a more 'balanced' one.

 

Odd I just went to fleet now and it put me into an instance with 178 people first off the bat, I manually transfer to the other instance which has 54 ... why would it do this if the cap is supposedly 175?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Fleet is still a good measure. That end game content is the SAME end game content we've had for like the past 18 months. SH's have been out since August 2014...the people avoiding group content have usually avoided it, so they were never factored in anyway.

 

Harb has gone from 4 Pub Fleet instances nearly every night, less than a year ago, down to 2 tops these days, with only one being full and one being around 20-40 players. Make any excuse you'd like...I'm not stupid and I know what I'm observing...I wish it were the other way around...it just isn't. I'm stating a fact. You can pretend it isn't true, but it is.

 

It's a good measure of end game content ( operations basically only ) players, those avoiding group content are ideally the majority and who the game is targeted at ( KoTFE ) so you can't just not factor them in ... all you can really say from reduced fleet population ( which you've not proven, so far we only take your word there were 4+ instances a year ago? ) is that players running operations is reduced which is really one of the only things you would hang out on fleet for ... few quick stops for some unique vendors but little other reason to.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

But WHY? It's not as if I want it to drop...I'd love 20 Pub instances of Fleet...why are they denying fact? Does burying their heads in the sand really make them feel better? Is the truth that hard to accept?

 

Contrary to what some people think, I want this game to live on for at least a decade longer...I still enjoy it. I still love the players I meet. I still enjoy my game time more than any other leisure activity I have, even when I'm bored silly I have a ton left to do...I LIKE video games and this is the only one I play. I'm not "negative"...I'm honest. The current population of this game, seems to be half what it was a year ago. Do you (not YOU Pagy) think that makes me happy? HELL NO! I HATE IT! I want it to DOUBLE...TRIPLE even...but it's not. I try to point out why I think it's dropped - lack of balance and attention to PvP and lack of NEW end game content are HUGE reasons imo...it can still be fixed.

 

It plummets this time every year ... torstatus shows this ... the question is what are they going to do to boost it back up as they have done years gone by?

 

I've seen nothing to show it in a worse state than it was a year ago though ... being able to demonstrate this would help support an argument for the game being in some dire state ( worse than the worst it's ever been pop wise ) otherwise it's almost status quo year on year ...

 

I maintain though if they persist down this episodic story path with no real new MMO features we aren't going to see a spike like we have other years ... that's the caveat of sorts to my thinking population right now isn't dire ... it may very well soon be.

[IanArgent]

I tend to agree with the above, especially since odessan. I personally avoid fleet as much as possible.

 

What about guild ships though? Do you count for the instance count if on guild ship? I've often found that an easy way to still get the pug chat from fleet and the easier layout to do all my storage/selling ( especially since fleet as no legacy storage ).

 

I forgot guild ships are plugged into fleet chat. Not that sitting in either one is all that desirable to me; I'd rather be out adventuring while waiting for a group to form (as I can do with PvP or FPs; but basically cannot with Ops).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I forgot guild ships are plugged into fleet chat. Not that sitting in either one is all that desirable to me; I'd rather be out adventuring while waiting for a group to form (as I can do with PvP or FPs; but basically cannot with Ops).

 

Yeah which is why I insinuated fleet's only real attraction is finding operation pugs, few vendors and the rather poor level of chat.

 

I find more chat on the SH worlds now than fleet anyway ... not sure on odessan as I've not used it much.

 

The concept of fleet as we know it is obsolete now and should be retired anyway in the sense of offering all vendors as decos for SH and global chat.

[TUXs]

Odd I just went to fleet now and it put me into an instance with 178 people first off the bat, I manually transfer to the other instance which has 54 ... why would it do this if the cap is supposedly 175?

Reread the post you quoted.

[TUXs]

It plummets this time every year ... torstatus shows this ... the question is what are they going to do to boost it back up as they have done years gone by?

I always see people claim this...I thought that happened in the fall when kids went back to school? Does it happen in spring AND fall? When does it rise naturally?

[DieAlteHexe]

I always see people claim this...I thought that happened in the fall when kids went back to school? Does it happen in spring AND fall? When does it rise naturally?

 

Tends, in my experience, to rise around the winter holidays when new computers are received along with games (and as you've likely noticed new releases or big updates). Used to see a big surge when kids got out of school for the summer but haven't noticed that much lately. Not sure why.

[Gokkus]

I would just like to add that sunday afternoon I went to Hoth and there were 4 instances (red eclipse).

 

So the game is not dead.*

 

 

 

 

*just wanted to know what it feels like to use a one time measurement at a random place to make a point.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Gokkus

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Reread the post you quoted.

 

I don't need to and that's not an answer.

 

If it's a cap and there is another much smaller instance available why put me into the more populated instance that is at cap ... you can assume people manually transferred to the instance all you like and it's all a timing thing but that's a massive stretch. If the CAP was 175 it should have moved me to the instance with 54 when I joined fleet rather than even risk reaching cap.

 

I don't think you fully understand the concept of a cap.