Game has died, Nowhere to go

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The game itself has died as a whole. However I am able to squeeze out some good PVP on Harbringer.

 

Am I the only one who sees how ludicrous these 2 sentences are when combined?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Those players are not playing the system. They're just *****. What's the point of faking being a tank/healer if as soon as flashpoint loads the group is still not balanced, therefore it leads to said group either disbanding immediately or getting wrecked at the first trash mob. They should change the group finder and prevent players from selecting any role that isn't theirs.

 

I've stopped running SM and HM FPs because of that. I'm a main tank, 10/15 of my characters are tanks, 3 are healers and only 2 are dps, yet I always encounter people who can't play their class or think they're smarter than us legit tanks and healers by faking a different role.

 

Faking or learning I wonder ... too often people are far too critical of people trying to learn a roles place in each fight for the harder content as it's quite a step up from tactical and EC isn't going to help learning tank roles in the slightest as I see it in regards to operations ( no tank swap mechanics, very little kiting even - nothing overly "tank" complicated ).

[Andryah]

Am I the only one who sees how ludicrous these 2 sentences are when combined?

 

He is the forum master at picking cherries.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Faking or learning I wonder ... too often people are far too critical of people trying to learn a roles place in each fight for the harder content as it's quite a step up from tactical and EC isn't going to help learning tank roles in the slightest as I see it in regards to operations ( no tank swap mechanics, very little kiting even - nothing overly "tank" complicated ).

 

You can easily tell if a dps is gaming the system, and not just learning their tanking skills. First there is different ability sets, not to mention animations. Not to mention they would just by nature of their dps gear setup take major damage.

 

So no, I would say 9/10 times it is just a jerk trying to game it. But those people quickly get booted, and added to ignore and that solves the issue.

Edited April 4, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[IcarasBane]

I don't think the game is dead. I just believe the decision to not release any new ops content in 1 1/2 + years and dragging out the story arch was ultimately a terribly bad decision that has people going elsewhere at the moment. The Story is great and a key component to why many of us loved KOTOR but it should not have been released as one episode a month. While their work on that story is appreciate, it isnt enough to keep people going without an operation release with the expansion.

 

BioWare just needs to make some quick corrections to get those subs back. The upside to having Star Wars as your base lore for an mmo is huge. The media coverage alone from Star Wars movies now being release every year puts them in a unique situation where their errors are not as critical as some other MMO devs. There is obviously a problem and I am very much hoping they will address this sooner than later. I believe the new pvp arena's and Eternal Championship is moving in the right direction but we need a new set of Operations ASAP and a clear and distinct message from the Dev's that they are committed to listening to the communities needs before there are mass exodus. Not to mention they may want to take a look at how easy they have now made it to level a toon in this game. It's out of control.

[JeKoCZ]

Faking or learning I wonder ... too often people are far too critical of people trying to learn a roles place in each fight for the harder content as it's quite a step up from tactical and EC isn't going to help learning tank roles in the slightest as I see it in regards to operations ( no tank swap mechanics, very little kiting even - nothing overly "tank" complicated ).

 

You don't learn how to tank/heal by faking your role when you're really a dps either.

[MadCuzBad]

Am I the only one who sees how ludicrous these 2 sentences are when combined?

 

If you would read I explain exactly what I mean in what I said. Ill give you an example for the kiddies. Obviously we have a lot of them. Ready?

 

Your on the titanic. The titanic is sinking. While it is sinking and people are jumping ship and getting off you find refuge in a part of the boat in the rear. Yes the ship is sinking. Its too late to argue about that. Its doomed (dead) however while it is sinking you found a spot in the rear of the ship that will be the last part of the ship to go under. So you take refuge there.

 

Yes eventually your going to have to jump ship too. Yes it is inevitable. Yes the ship is sinking (dead) but it has not sunk yet completely. Just because you found refuge in the rear of the boat and are able to survive longer than a lot of the other people isn't going to change the fact that the ship is sinking (dead).

 

In the same way squeezing an extra 3 or 4 months out of harbringer before the que times slow down to the point your waiting for them to pop beyond what you consider reasonable. The fleet on harbringer has gone from 4 republic instances of fleet at peak time down to 1 instance of fleet during peak time. Que pops have slowed up drastically especially non peak times. I'm sitting in the "rear of the boat" watching it sink all around me but I found the last server left that I am able to PVP on before the entire ship sinks.

 

Does that help the kiddies understand a little better. Hate to bring it down to such a child like level but this continually comes up with certain groups of people here on the forums.

 

Bottom line is TheHarbringer has drained off most of the people from other servers who want a strong population. These people have already joined Harbringer. PVP server are completely ghost towns, and the other servers are fowling right behind them. TheHarbringer is the most populated server and it is heading in a downward spiral. Like the sinking ship, TheHarbringer is the very last part of the ship to sink. It is the "back of the boat". It has been a refuge for ALOT of people. I mean ALOT of people. But the reality is that the game has reached the end of the rope. Harbringer is the end of the rope. And if things continue down the same road as they are on now, I will be lucky to squeeze 3 more months out of this last worth while server.

 

Does that help explain it for you? I do not think I could dumb it down any more than that. I hope that help put this to rest once and for all. 90% of the people understand the title and know exactly what I mean. But I hope this clears it up for the 10% that just don't get it.

Edited April 4, 2016 by MadCuzBad

[robertthebard]

If you would read I explain exactly what I mean in what I said. Ill give you an example for the kiddies. Obviously we have a lot of them. Ready?

 

Your on the titanic. The titanic is sinking. While it is sinking and people are jumping ship and getting off you find refuge in a part of the boat in the rear. Yes the ship is sinking. Its too late to argue about that. Its doomed (dead) however while it is sinking you found a spot in the rear of the ship that will be the last part of the ship to go under. So you take refuge there.

 

Yes eventually your going to have to jump ship too. Yes it is inevitable. Yes the ship is sinking (dead) but it has not sunk yet completely. Just because you found refuge in the rear of the boat and are able to survive longer than a lot of the other people isn't going to change the fact that the ship is sinking (dead).

 

In the same way squeezing an extra 3 or 4 months out of harbringer before the que times slow down to the point your waiting for them to pop beyond what you consider reasonable. The fleet on harbringer has gone from 4 republic instances of fleet at peak time down to 1 instance of fleet during peak time. Que pops have slowed up drastically especially non peak times. I'm sitting in the "rear of the boat" watching it sink all around me but I found the last server left that I am able to PVP on before the entire ship sinks.

 

Does that help the kiddies understand a little better. Hate to bring it down to such a child like level but this continually comes up with certain groups of people here on the forums.

 

Bottom line is TheHarbringer has drained off most of the people from other servers who want a strong population. These people have already joined Harbringer. PVP server are completely ghost towns, and the other servers are fowling right behind them. TheHarbringer is the most populated server and it is heading in a downward spiral. Like the sinking ship, TheHarbringer is the very last part of the ship to sink. It is the "back of the boat". It has been a refuge for ALOT of people. I mean ALOT of people. But the reality is that the game has reached the end of the rope. Harbringer is the end of the rope. And if things continue down the same road as they are on now, I will be lucky to squeeze 3 more months out of this last worth while server.

 

Does that help explain it for you? I do not think I could dumb it down any more than that. I hope that help put this to rest once and for all. 90% of the people understand the title and know exactly what I mean. But I hope this clears it up for the 10% that just don't get it.

 

I think it's really a better analogy for this thread, than the game as a whole. You see, you're claiming what you want is why the game's dead, but what that really breaks down to, using your own analogy, is a lifeboat sinking. While some people do prefer to PvP here, it's not the reason other people play. PvP could fall off the game completely, and some of them wouldn't even notice. I've never set foot in a WZ, again because 1 2 3 go isn't what I'm looking for when I want to PvP. I might notice, I do have people on my friend's list and in my guild that PvP, and if they left, I'd notice, but it wouldn't adversely affect what I do.

 

Therefore, I wouldn't have to be searching for a place to take refuge, I could just continue to do what I've been doing. You've been calling the game dead for 4 years, and eventually, you'll get it right. In the meantime, those of us that are still enjoying it are going to continue to play it. Thus, your analogy falls way flat. You see, the ship isn't sinking, just your lifeboat. That's unfortunate, for you, but it's not the end of my world, and it's not the end of my world if you left, either. If, as your analogy indicates, the entire ship was sinking, this wouldn't be true. Hang in there though, fight the "good fight", eventually, you'll be right. Based on your history, it may be another 4 years, but hey, eventually you'll be able to say "I told you so".

[Max_Killjoy]

You've been calling the game dead for 4 years, and eventually, you'll get it right. In the meantime, those of us that are still enjoying it are going to continue to play it. Thus, your analogy falls way flat. You see, the ship isn't sinking, just your lifeboat. That's unfortunate, for you, but it's not the end of my world, and it's not the end of my world if you left, either. If, as your analogy indicates, the entire ship was sinking, this wouldn't be true. Hang in there though, fight the "good fight", eventually, you'll be right. Based on your history, it may be another 4 years, but hey, eventually you'll be able to say "I told you so".

 

That just about sums it up.

[ExarSun]

That just about sums it up.

+1...I always laugh at those doomsayers.

[Elly_Dawn]

lol, yeah they're like "my oven is on fire so the entire city must be burning down"...

[Max_Killjoy]

I don't think pointing and laughing is any more productive than the way some of them resort to name-calling and attempts to belittle people who won't join in the doomsaying...

[TUXs]

You can't blame BW for the fact that GF is not popping, when it is the playerbase that is causing the issue was my general point. And the issue is, that MAYBE people should get out of their comfort zone, and try tanking or healing if they want a health GF rotation.

Every reason you list is a result of Bioware though...

 

1) the lack of new content is 99.99% of why the GF queue doesn't pop more often

2) the lack of new content has caused a plethora of players to leave

3) The lack of tanks/healers is a result of a design flaw. Nothing 1-50 (or 51-65) requires anything specific. The game rewards players for going DPS by making everything quicker and easier - companions can tank/heal fine, but they suffer in DPS roles. This could have been prevented with a DPS buff to companions if the player is healing/tanking

 

So yes...you CAN blame Bioware. Everything that has caused these issues is able to be attributed to them imo.

[robertthebard]

Every reason you list is a result of Bioware though...

 

1) the lack of new content is 99.99% of why the GF queue doesn't pop more often

2) the lack of new content has caused a plethora of players to leave

3) The lack of tanks/healers is a result of a design flaw. Nothing 1-50 (or 51-65) requires anything specific. The game rewards players for going DPS by making everything quicker and easier - companions can tank/heal fine, but they suffer in DPS roles. This could have been prevented with a DPS buff to companions if the player is healing/tanking

 

So yes...you CAN blame Bioware. Everything that has caused these issues is able to be attributed to them imo.

 

So this has been an issue since launch. Where are all the "The game's dead" threads from back then, short of the OP's 2012 thread? This isn't an issue brought on by KotFE, this issue has existed since forever, in games with a queue system for group content, and no, despite the tendency to want to blame developers, they are not responsible for players that want to "take the easy way" rolling a DPS. An estimated hour difference between a DPS and a Heal spec toon getting to 50 isn't game breaking. So the argument of "but DPS is better" falls flat. It might be a bit faster, but really, it's not any better, and player choices are not the fault of any developer.

 

Let me curb the "but they offered a choice" argument now: Yep, and as we can see, the playerbase isn't unhappy about their choices "mattering", until it forces them to do something they don't want to do, such as play a tank, or a healer. Devs are also not responsible for the DPS that don't know how to play in a group raging at the tank, or the healer, a situation that causes a lot of the tanks/healers that are being played to stick to guild/friend groups, instead of hitting the queue. As a rule, I don't hit the queue on my tanks or healers, unless we're short people in our premade and we don't want to wait for others to log in. Why? Because in nearly 2 decades of MMO play, I know exactly what's going to happen. A DPS that's 2 rooms, or groups of mobs ahead, complaining that he LoS'd the healer, and didn't get heals, or raging at the tank for not keeping his pace, or, exclusively here, so far, not hitting the spacebar fast enough, or often enough in dialogs. Explain to me how player behavior is the dev's fault, again? Unless we're going to run with "They don't ban enough toxic players" now?

[ChicksDigHarleys]

You don't need to learn to play your class while leveling anymore. You can randomly mash skills and beat 100% of the solo content (and even H2's), so it's no surprise people get to end game harder content and don't have a clue. That is at least partially BW's fault.

[TUXs]

So this has been an issue since launch. Where are all the "The game's dead" threads from back then, short of the OP's 2012 thread? This isn't an issue brought on by KotFE, this issue has existed since forever, in games with a queue system for group content, and no, despite the tendency to want to blame developers, they are not responsible for players that want to "take the easy way" rolling a DPS. An estimated hour difference between a DPS and a Heal spec toon getting to 50 isn't game breaking. So the argument of "but DPS is better" falls flat. It might be a bit faster, but really, it's not any better, and player choices are not the fault of any developer.

 

Let me curb the "but they offered a choice" argument now: Yep, and as we can see, the playerbase isn't unhappy about their choices "mattering", until it forces them to do something they don't want to do, such as play a tank, or a healer. Devs are also not responsible for the DPS that don't know how to play in a group raging at the tank, or the healer, a situation that causes a lot of the tanks/healers that are being played to stick to guild/friend groups, instead of hitting the queue. As a rule, I don't hit the queue on my tanks or healers, unless we're short people in our premade and we don't want to wait for others to log in. Why? Because in nearly 2 decades of MMO play, I know exactly what's going to happen. A DPS that's 2 rooms, or groups of mobs ahead, complaining that he LoS'd the healer, and didn't get heals, or raging at the tank for not keeping his pace, or, exclusively here, so far, not hitting the spacebar fast enough, or often enough in dialogs. Explain to me how player behavior is the dev's fault, again? Unless we're going to run with "They don't ban enough toxic players" now?

Are you contending that the OP's 2012 thread is the only "game is dying" thread from back then??? LOLOLOL!!!!!

 

Taking the "easy way" is a common sense approach. This is a game that is built around the "trinity", yet there's no opportunity to practice anything relating to that "trinity" until you do group content. With only being able to call one companion, I'm forced to pick the 2 roles of that trinity that work best together...DPS is always a part of that choice for me.

 

I also enjoy your use of the word "toxic" to describe PvEers now. First it was PvPers who were the "toxic" players, now it's DPS PvEers who don't follow you...wow lol.

[Max_Killjoy]

You don't need to learn to play your class while leveling anymore. You can randomly mash skills and beat 100% of the solo content (and even H2's), so it's no surprise people get to end game harder content and don't have a clue. That is at least partially BW's fault.

 

Because of course as soon as anyone rolls a new alt in the 4.0 setting, they completely forget how to do anything.

 

Meanwhile, I still use my rotations (or adapt for the quicker kills) against anything I fight -- if no one had pointed out the companion scaling issues and the ability to "button mash" or "companion grind" through solo content, I'd never have known anything about it.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

Because of course as soon as anyone rolls a new alt in the 4.0 setting, they completely forget how to do anything.

 

Meanwhile, I still use my rotations (or adapt for the quicker kills) against anything I fight -- if no one had pointed out the companion scaling issues and the ability to "button mash" or "companion grind" through solo content, I'd never have known anything about it.

 

Wasn't this 4.0 crap meant to attract new, LCD, ADHD players? Of course if you've been playing forever you'll have some idea what you're doing.

[Max_Killjoy]

Wasn't this 4.0 crap meant to attract new, LCD, ADHD players? Of course if you've been playing forever you'll have some idea what you're doing.

 

You have a point.

[robertthebard]

Are you contending that the OP's 2012 thread is the only "game is dying" thread from back then??? LOLOLOL!!!!!

 

Taking the "easy way" is a common sense approach. This is a game that is built around the "trinity", yet there's no opportunity to practice anything relating to that "trinity" until you do group content. With only being able to call one companion, I'm forced to pick the 2 roles of that trinity that work best together...DPS is always a part of that choice for me.

 

I also enjoy your use of the word "toxic" to describe PvEers now. First it was PvPers who were the "toxic" players, now it's DPS PvEers who don't follow you...wow lol.

 

Taking the easy way is the lazy man's/woman's approach, not the common sense approach. Yet, and here's your stumbling block, there is group content to be played. The very first group content is located on the starter worlds, in the form of heroics, although, in those, everyone is a dps anyway, even the Esselles/Black Talon doesn't offer a true tank much in the way of tanking skills, when it's first available. But it's there. They had to make some of it tactical, because there weren't enough tanks and healers in the queue, once again a situation that predates KotFE, and isn't the fault of the developers. People being too lazy to play a tank 1-50 because "it's slower/harder/I don't know how" isn't the fault of any dev, in any game. That's people in general, and there's nothing they can do about that.

 

Yes, toxic players are toxic. I challenge you to search my post history to find an example where I've claimed anything else, or can we just disregard this strawman now and move on?

[peter_plankskull]

So this has been an issue since launch. Where are all the "The game's dead" threads from back then, short of the OP's 2012 thread? This isn't an issue brought on by KotFE, this issue has existed since forever, in games with a queue system for group content, and no, despite the tendency to want to blame developers, they are not responsible for players that want to "take the easy way" rolling a DPS. An estimated hour difference between a DPS and a Heal spec toon getting to 50 isn't game breaking. So the argument of "but DPS is better" falls flat. It might be a bit faster, but really, it's not any better, and player choices are not the fault of any developer.

Come on... how are you not blaming the devs for a blatant design flaw in their system?

 

The DPS is the easier option in the game as it doesn't correlate to group content so you can learn in a solo play environment, as well as move more efficiently through the game killing mobs faster, its like saying the AEK in battlefield 4 (The power weapon of choice for the assault class) isn't OP cause of the way the devs designed it, but rather how the players use it. Be honest, the AEK is a easy mode power weapon for close quarters which completely dominates the playing field, the fault isn't the community for using it, its the devs for designing it as it was, just like how using the DPS spec is easier in SWTOR. Players want the easy way out with the most effective results, this is the DPS mode, people are going to pick whatever is best, notice all the FOTM sorcs in the game?

 

The players aren't to blame for design flaws, the devs are.

 

Let me curb the "but they offered a choice" argument now: Yep, and as we can see, the playerbase isn't unhappy about their choices "mattering", until it forces them to do something they don't want to do, such as play a tank, or a healer.

Problem is that the choice of playing as a tank or healer is less effective than playing a DPS for solo content. Not to mention unless you're in specifically group content, you're not going to be able to learn you're full potential on how to play a tank or healer, unlike DPS which you can do strictly from solo play. I would complain to if I had to pick from out of the three options and one of which was completely terrible and paled in comparison to the rest.

 

Devs are also not responsible for the DPS that don't know how to play in a group raging at the tank, or the healer, a situation that causes a lot of the tanks/healers that are being played to stick to guild/friend groups, instead of hitting the queue.

No, they aren't responsible for the ability for how fast the player is to learn, but they are responsible to set certain parameters for the player to learn.

 

At the moment, their is no training of group content anymore besides the real actual thing. We use to have heroics to teach people to group up and then slowly work their way up the food chain in skill from heroics>flashpoints>hard mode flashpoints>operations. As it is now hard mode flashpoints are the hardest in the game now, and heroics are completely and utterly solo able by mashing the one key, and some flashpoints at launch of KOTFE were arguably harder than operations. Red Reaper vs. Eternity vault at the launch of KOTFE anyone, don't forgot operations now give better gear than hard mode flashpoints even though they require less effort.

 

As a rule, I don't hit the queue on my tanks or healers, unless we're short people in our premade and we don't want to wait for others to log in. Why? Because in nearly 2 decades of MMO play, I know exactly what's going to happen. A DPS that's 2 rooms, or groups of mobs ahead, complaining that he LoS'd the healer, and didn't get heals, or raging at the tank for not keeping his pace, or, exclusively here, so far, not hitting the spacebar fast enough, or often enough in dialogs. Explain to me how player behavior is the dev's fault, again? Unless we're going to run with "They don't ban enough toxic players" now?

 

What you described as that certain DPS player can be in all the roles throughout the game.

 

Bossy tanks who abuse the fact that they are rare and acknowledge that they can mess up, but god forbid that DPS accidently pulls another mob, insta kick that scrub. No offense, but I never saw reason to let previous bad instances to traumatize me from doing it in the future. You seem to relatively enjoy flashpoints as you still run them, its not like you dislike group content, but what you described is possible, and can happen throughout all roles, however their is a chance while you may come across the worst possible unbelievable group member to ever exit, their is also a chance to come up with the best group runner ever.

[MadCuzBad]

I think it's really a better analogy for this thread, than the game as a whole. You see, you're claiming what you want is why the game's dead, but what that really breaks down to, using your own analogy, is a lifeboat sinking. While some people do prefer to PvP here, it's not the reason other people play. PvP could fall off the game completely, and some of them wouldn't even notice. I've never set foot in a WZ, again because 1 2 3 go isn't what I'm looking for when I want to PvP. I might notice, I do have people on my friend's list and in my guild that PvP, and if they left, I'd notice, but it wouldn't adversely affect what I do.

 

Therefore, I wouldn't have to be searching for a place to take refuge, I could just continue to do what I've been doing. You've been calling the game dead for 4 years, and eventually, you'll get it right. In the meantime, those of us that are still enjoying it are going to continue to play it. Thus, your analogy falls way flat. You see, the ship isn't sinking, just your lifeboat. That's unfortunate, for you, but it's not the end of my world, and it's not the end of my world if you left, either. If, as your analogy indicates, the entire ship was sinking, this wouldn't be true. Hang in there though, fight the "good fight", eventually, you'll be right. Based on your history, it may be another 4 years, but hey, eventually you'll be able to say "I told you so".

 

Here we go again with the kiddies. You must be a troll. There is no way you got that messed up with this. The analogy is correct and not only that but to your surprise factual. Go on TheHarbringer and send tells to 20 people on fleet. Ask each person if they are a refuge from another server and if they are ask them how long have they been on Harbs. Its that simple. I can already tell you what your gonna get for a response but I want you to get the full flavor yourself.

 

This storm coming is not a storm that will effect just PVP, ROFLMAO!!! I mean are you for freaking real? I know you are trolling me because its not even an opinion.

 

FYI we are down to only 8 US servers. Most of the 8 are ghost towns. And the ones that are not ghost town have players leaving them as we speak to transfer to Harbringer the last server that has players just about 24/7.

 

The only thing keeping this game alive is people leaving servers to go to Harbringer. Harbringer is sucking the life out of every remaining server on this game. And what's worse even with all these people transferring, people are quitting at even a higher rate of speed and Harbringers server population has shrank. What was once a variant republic fleet of 4 instances a night has now turned into 1. And your talking about this only effecting PVPers? Are you a comedian in RL or something?

 

WOW! Just amazing to even read a response so absolutely off of the reality screen. Just WOW!!!

[robertthebard]

Here we go again with the kiddies.

 

Oh hey, let's open with an assault on a position that you can't refute, and then wonder why people are rude to you again, ok? Hey, maybe you can get your bandwagon on too, so that you can all point at this post as proof that you're a victim of some kind of misunderstanding.

 

You must be a troll. There is no way you got that messed up with this. The analogy is correct and not only that but to your surprise factual. Go on TheHarbringer and send tells to 20 people on fleet. Ask each person if they are a refuge from another server and if they are ask them how long have they been on Harbs. Its that simple. I can already tell you what your gonna get for a response but I want you to get the full flavor yourself.

 

Nope, just someone that disagrees with your assessment, and shot holes in your analogy. I understand your need to lash out, however, it's atypical of carebears to do so.

 

This storm coming is not a storm that will effect just PVP, ROFLMAO!!! I mean are you for freaking real? I know you are trolling me because its not even an opinion.

 

So, you predicted this storm 4 years ago. Why are we still here? Once the game is well and truly dead, there won't be an official forum to discuss it.

 

FYI we are down to only 8 US servers. Most of the 8 are ghost towns. And the ones that are not ghost town have players leaving them as we speak to transfer to Harbringer the last server that has players just about 24/7.

 

Citations needed.

 

The only thing keeping this game alive is people leaving servers to go to Harbringer. Harbringer is sucking the life out of every remaining server on this game. And what's worse even with all these people transferring, people are quitting at even a higher rate of speed and Harbringers server population has shrank. What was once a variant republic fleet of 4 instances a night has now turned into 1. And your talking about this only effecting PVPers? Are you a comedian in RL or something?

 

Citation needed.

 

WOW! Just amazing to even read a response so absolutely off of the reality screen. Just WOW!!!

 

Welcome to my world? This is the reaction I've been having since this post.

[MadCuzBad]

Oh hey, let's open with an assault on a position that you can't refute, and then wonder why people are rude to you again

 

No I don't wonder why. Truth hurts and sometimes makes certain people very upset. There is a few people on this thread that get really irritated about some of the truth I speak. Most don't but there are a few of you guys who do.

[MadCuzBad]

Wasn't this 4.0 crap meant to attract new, LCD, ADHD players? Of course if you've been playing forever you'll have some idea what you're doing.

 

It didn't work. Again.