PVP - Most mobile and highest burst specs for Mara/Sent?

[Arkillon]

OH. Yeah. Don't go max crit. Just enough for 2.2 ravage. So you should be at 2.24 seconds. And get like 1350-1400 crit, then power

[Lhancelot]

Again, carnage is op if you aren't bad.

 

Let me elaborate. If you know mara well enough so that you know to save your cooldowns and have the proper utilities, how to keep your rage up too and assuming you don't use ravage without gore/berserk, it's the best. Rage is very very predictable, because of its buffs, and the way to make your hits crit harder. You need to use berserk or crush, which indicated (most likely) an incoming burst window. Whereas carnage, there's 3 seconds in which you can burst hard as ****, and you can't predict when gore is gonna happen, it's off gcd, and you SHOULD use it when berserk is already up.

 

Even if you were to use force choke, the gcd comes off before its last tick, that alone is enough for anyone to not be able to tell when you'll use gore + deva blast. It's like a 95% garanteed 15-18k crit. Plus if the person breaks your cc... Woot you can use ravage and make sure they don't ****. Or you can use mad dash, turn around and leap to them, in which case they'll probably have the reflex to knock you back.. No stunbreak and no kb? You're most likely at full resolve by then, with a berserk and a gore ready. Enjoy the 2.2 ravage with gore and a 15-18k cri at the end. Then massacre massacre choke gf etc.

 

So yeah. Carnage REQUIRES you to know the class extremely well, and the enemy class. Fury carries you. You want 600-700 alacrity as carnage (enough for 2.2 ravage), rest crit, 5% accuracy. You NEED to know at all times exactly what you'll do the next 4 GCDs, and what'll change if the enemy uses a def cd, a kb, a stun etc.. You have to be constantly on your targets and leap elsewhere as soon as you'll be wasting damage against a pt with hydraulics, for example. Don't chase your targets to the point where you're useless, pick the guys that already used their stunbreak or kb's. Carnage is for killing blows and high burst, don't waste that burst on someone that's mitigating 30% damage. You want to use it on a target that's healing enemies in the back, so that he panics and heal himself, which lets your team kill 1-2 players idealy. Carnage is super personal as to who you'll attack. Use your leaps to stop someone from getting away, stop an innervate, etc. Be smart about your utility, don't waste when it can be used better elsewhere, mistakes cost more as carnage than rage.

 

Also yeah. You have to have really good reflexes and a high level of concentration, don't expecct to global someone just because of gore, it requires a lot of strategy. No, it's not for casuals.

 

Thanks for all the input, gave me more thought on how to use certain abilties. I am playing fury atm, like you say I found it easier than carnage. Maybe once I feel more confident I will try carnage again later.

 

What utilities do you like using? Just curious. Ohh, you might have answered that above I think nm.

[Arkillon]

Thanks for all the input, gave me more thought on how to use certain abilties. I am playing fury atm, like you say I found it easier than carnage. Maybe once I feel more confident I will try carnage again later.

 

What utilities do you like using? Just curious. Ohh, you might have answered that above I think nm.

 

 

tier 1:

 

ravage root,

 

Rage on knockbacks and impairment + stunbreak reduc

 

then obviously the fury building.

 

 

tier 2: ALWAYS the 30 sec predation (hello 10% def chance???? its not a playstyle, its necessary you noobs)

then EITHER the 30% slow to its left or the 5%internal/ele + 30% aoe reduction. i get focused a lot and if im playing with a tank and/or healer the cleaves are real.

 

tier 3: undying rage buff + the predation root cleanse. (no, mad dash root cleanse is ****)

 

honestly, its way easier to play fury. the spec somewhat carries you because it's forgiving, on the opposite carnage is absolutely not forgiving. you have to be extremely aggressive, your best defense is offense. as fury.. meh. jump in, leap left and right use slice/burst whenever you can, just use slice before burst. the spec's boring compared to carnage, it feels really, really slow.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Arkillon

[AngusFTW]

Always found carnage pretty simple myself since 3.0. Maybe because i used to enjoy playing it in 2.0 when it was an rngfest its been pretty simple since they got rid of that rng and less exciting... Hard spec?.... Its made my bar feel empty since 3.0! Edited February 3, 2016 by AngusFTW

[JouerTue]

Yesterday on a new 60 I played around in mids with carnage a lot, and when I managed to get off 3-4 attacks they were obliterated, the problem was if they got peels, if they knocked me back, snared, whatever else I did nothing. I simply found it too frustrating.

 

Then I tried fury. Totally different experience, I still can't believe how much more smoother it is. I could stay on target much better. I guess that immunity granted by force crush really is useful.

 

My damage wasn't as bursty with fury, but my overall damage increased by 25% for the matches, obviously because I was able to land my attacks better.

 

another thing is I found it much more smooth gameplay, my mobility with predation on 30 sec cooldown seems awesome. I really can't see not having this tbh.

 

What other utilities do you think are best other than the predation buff?

 

i take cloak of carnage, inexorable and brazen in skillful tier, more DR, and fury gain on stuns and knockbacks, increased cloak of pain duration

 

relentless and defensive rolls in heroic tier, predation off fury system and aoe DR

 

unbound and through victory in masterful for maximum root breaking. personal choices but i think the best things you can do is maximize DR and mobility, until they fix the crippling slash thing there's no point in taking 2 utilities to make it worthy.

[chosonman]

Anyone playing sent/mara pvp needs to take the skill that gives you a 30 second cool down on predation/transcendancr and the buff that purges movement debuffs when it is used. This is a must. It not only let's you escape trouble but allows you to use your centering/fury on zen/beserk. If you are not taking them you are doing it wrong. And it makes your a fighter plane in a batlle field full of Cessnas. Edited February 3, 2016 by chosonman

[Arkillon]

Anyone playing sent/mara pvp needs to take the skill that gives you a 30 second cool down on predation/transcendancr and the buff that purges movement debuffs when it is used. This is a must. It not only let's you escape trouble but allows you to use your centering/fury on zen/beserk. If you are not taking them you are doing it wrong. And it makes your a fighter plane in a batlle field full of Cessnas.

 

This. I'd even go and say it's pointless to take the rage increase in tier 1 with fury, I'd go for something else. 25% on slash? Probably that

[teclado]

I've never used much alacrity, so maybe that's part of why I'm not so good at Carnage. I'll give it a try, thanks Arkillon. Edited February 3, 2016 by teclado

[Arkillon]

I've never used much alacrity, so maybe that's part of why I'm not so good at Carnage. I'll give it a try, thanks Arkillon.

 

Np fam. Get just enough to get a 2.2 ravage with berserk. NO MORE. I think it's around 626. 9.89%? I forgot but yeah 2.2. 2.1 isn't worth it

[Lhancelot]

until they fix the crippling slash thing there's no point in taking 2 utilities to make it worthy.

Wait, so how is this broken then, what do you mean "fix the crippling slash thing"?

[Arkillon]

Wait, so how is this broken then, what do you mean "fix the crippling slash thing"?

 

Not really broken, just.. Not like before

[Lhancelot]

Not really broken, just.. Not like before

 

hey, do you suggest alacrity on fury also? I see it would speed up cooldowns and make my ravage faster, add fluidity I think to my attacks?

 

EDIT: also, do I need accuracy? Teclado said he basically pulled out all accuracy enhancements I believe.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Lhancelot

[Arkillon]

hey, do you suggest alacrity on fury also? I see it would speed up cooldowns and make my ravage faster, add fluidity I think to my attacks?

 

EDIT: also, do I need accuracy? Teclado said he basically pulled out all accuracy enhancements I believe.

 

 

You want accuracy to not miss a vicious throw or a battering assault or a concentrated slice. 5% is sufficient. In all honesty I'd only get alacrity as carnage or anni (I don't play the latter). Fury already has more damage reduction, and since you'll leap more often (obliterate) alacrity doesn't have as much of an impact. Furthermore, you're missing the 3% from ataru form, which is the main reason why some extra alac is a must. As fury you have a base of 0...

 

Tldr: no alacrity as fury. Get 5% acc. 1350 crit, then stack power

[chosonman]

I agree about 10% alarcity in a good spot. 7% would be a bear minimum for carnage/combat. If you want crazy fast you can try 16%. I roll 16% because I like the marginally faster cooldowns on my other skills. You do lose some dps after 10% I think the dps loss on 10% and below are negligible. Edited February 3, 2016 by chosonman

[Lhancelot]

You want accuracy to not miss a vicious throw or a battering assault or a concentrated slice. 5% is sufficient. In all honesty I'd only get alacrity as carnage or anni (I don't play the latter). Fury already has more damage reduction, and since you'll leap more often (obliterate) alacrity doesn't have as much of an impact. Furthermore, you're missing the 3% from ataru form, which is the main reason why some extra alac is a must. As fury you have a base of 0...

 

Tldr: no alacrity as fury. Get 5% acc. 1350 crit, then stack power

 

very good, thanks man for the fast responses too.

[teclado]

Yeah, personally I have been going with 101% accuracy for Fury. I think that 105% accuracy would yield higher DPS in a longer, sustained fight. However, 101% gives you more points in Crit/Power, meaning that when you do hit your target, you will hit harder. So, burst damage is higher with 101% most of the time (assuming you don't miss). I don't think that it makes that much of a difference either way. I played with 105% for a long time and swore by it, but nowadays I'm leaning towards 101%. Edited February 4, 2016 by teclado

[Lhancelot]

Yeah, personally I have been going with 101% accuracy for Fury. I think that 105% accuracy would yield higher DPS in a longer, sustained fight. However, 101% gives you more points in Crit/Power, meaning that when you do hit your target, you will hit harder. So, burst damage is higher with 101% most of the time (assuming you don't miss). I don't think that it makes that much of a difference either way. I played with 105% for a long time and swore by it, but nowadays I'm leaning towards 101%.

 

yeah I did just this too, just to see if I noticed misses or not. Hey Teclado (and anyone else ofc), do you get the +2 secs to undying rage or whatever it is, the 99% for 4 secs?

 

So if I remember the buff gives you +2 secs more and 30 secs off it's cooldown. I am torn about getting that, only because if I do, then I got to drop expounge (cleanse on stealth) or the buff to predation which I have to have. I really like the cleanse with stealth though lol.

 

Seems like I would stealth out and have a lot of crap on me if I didn't not have that cleanse? What is your take on the pros and cons here?

[Arkillon]

yeah I did just this too, just to see if I noticed misses or not. Hey Teclado (and anyone else ofc), do you get the +2 secs to undying rage or whatever it is, the 99% for 4 secs?

 

So if I remember the buff gives you +2 secs more and 30 secs off it's cooldown. I am torn about getting that, only because if I do, then I got to drop expounge (cleanse on stealth) or the buff to predation which I have to have. I really like the cleanse with stealth though lol.

 

Seems like I would stealth out and have a lot of crap on me if I didn't not have that cleanse? What is your take on the pros and cons here?

 

 

 

Tier 3: undying rage buff + predation root cleanse

[teclado]

I tried out Carnage with 621 alacrity, 1333 crit. It's definitely better than with zero alacrity. I was surprised at how good the damage still was, even with all that alac.

 

I played one game in which the other team had three sorc healers. So much bubble stun. I probably spent half the game stunned, mezz'd, knockback rooted, etc. Well maybe not half the game, but it sure felt like it. So annoying. I know that with Fury, I would have mitigated that somewhat. That's probably the biggest thing for me - I hate all the CC.

 

Anyway, I'll definitely play it more. It's just the few games that can get super frustrating.

[JouerTue]

Wait, so how is this broken then, what do you mean "fix the crippling slash thing"?

 

one utility to make it 10m, one utility to make it a root

[Ruhun]

I tried out Carnage with 621 alacrity, 1333 crit. It's definitely better than with zero alacrity. I was surprised at how good the damage still was, even with all that alac.

 

I played one game in which the other team had three sorc healers. So much bubble stun. I probably spent half the game stunned, mezz'd, knockback rooted, etc. Well maybe not half the game, but it sure felt like it. So annoying. I know that with Fury, I would have mitigated that somewhat. That's probably the biggest thing for me - I hate all the CC.

 

Anyway, I'll definitely play it more. It's just the few games that can get super frustrating.

 

I was pleasantly surprised too. I still did more or less the same but I still out damaged everyone else by a mile.

[Arkillon]

I tried out Carnage with 621 alacrity, 1333 crit. It's definitely better than with zero alacrity. I was surprised at how good the damage still was, even with all that alac.

 

I played one game in which the other team had three sorc healers. So much bubble stun. I probably spent half the game stunned, mezz'd, knockback rooted, etc. Well maybe not half the game, but it sure felt like it. So annoying. I know that with Fury, I would have mitigated that somewhat. That's probably the biggest thing for me - I hate all the CC.

 

Anyway, I'll definitely play it more. It's just the few games that can get super frustrating.

 

 

 

There we gooooo. Yeah the roots are way more annoying as carnage, but it's the most alpha spec

[Lhancelot]

There we gooooo. Yeah the roots are way more annoying as carnage, but it's the most alpha spec

 

Ok, so with carnage can you explain when I should not use ravage and when I should... What I should push into gore window etc.?

 

Sorry if you went through some of this, I just want a concise idea what I should be focusing on it's kind of confusing to me atm. Just changed from fury to carnage just to play with it.

 

I got alacrity and crit on my gears now to run carnage as many of the players here suggested. I just get confused as to what I should be putting into the gore window for maximum damage.

[teclado]

This is a very good guide on Carnage Mara in general (not pvp focused, but still very good general theory). Basically, you want Gore-Ravage-devastating blast or Gore-Vicious Throw-Devastating Blast. When Gore is on cooldown, you're using Massacre, Battering Assault, Dual Saber Throw, sometimes Vicious Throw, occasional Assault.

 

Have a look at Hayete's rotation. Of course in pvp, you will hold off on using the Gore windows at times, depending on the situation. But it shows what you ideally want.

 

Since Gore is off the GCD, bind it to something that you can hit quickly. The timing can be a little tricky if you want to fit a full Ravage-Devastating Blast combo into a Gore window. It's easy to mess it up and have the Gore window expire prior to getting in the Dev Blast. You'll also need to clip Ravage at around 0.3 seconds. Clip it too early and you'll miss the last tick of Ravage damage. Clip it too late and you may miss DB with Gore. This spec is a macro dream, which is actually part of what turns me off to it a little. I don't use macros, so there are definitely times when I mess it up. This is also why Carnage requires alacrity - gives you a little more room to squeeze things into the narrow window.

Edited February 5, 2016 by teclado

[Lhancelot]

This is a very good guide on Carnage Mara in general (not pvp focused, but still very good general theory). Basically, you want Gore-Ravage-devastating blast or Gore-Vicious Throw-Devastating Blast. When Gore is on cooldown, you're using Massacre, Battering Assault, Dual Saber Throw, sometimes Vicious Throw, occasional Assault.

 

Have a look at Hayete's rotation. Of course in pvp, you will hold off on using the Gore windows at times, depending on the situation. But it shows what you ideally want.

 

ok thanks a lot!