PVP - Most mobile and highest burst specs for Mara/Sent?

[Lhancelot]

Just hoping someone can give a quick simple answer here if possible. What marauder has the easiest time navigating through all the cc etc., and what marauder has potentially the highest burst? Thx in advance! (PVP only)

[Arkillon]

Just hoping someone can give a quick simple answer here if possible. What marauder has the easiest time navigating through all the cc etc., and what marauder has potentially the highest burst? Thx in advance! (PVP only)

 

Carnage: fastest paced, medium durability, best burst

 

Anni: medium paced, lowest durability, lowest burst/highest sustained

 

Rage: slowest paced, highest durability, medium burst

[Lhancelot]

Carnage: fastest paced, medium durability, best burst

 

Anni: medium paced, lowest durability, lowest burst/highest sustained

 

Rage: slowest paced, highest durability, medium burst

 

Ok thanks. Looking at the abilities carnage and rage seem comparable in damage with their highest hitting attacks. I guess maybe carnage wins out overall in burst by what you are saying.

 

I see that fury actually has an immunity to CC buff with force crush that probably would help more with mobility in PVP I am guessing?

 

That's what I meant by more mobility in PVP, if one class has more chance to wade through snares, KBs, and general CC. I don't see any such buffs with carnage.

[Invictusthetaru]

Ok thanks. Looking at the abilities carnage and rage seem comparable in damage with their highest hitting attacks. I guess maybe carnage wins out overall in burst by what you are saying.

 

I see that fury actually has an immunity to CC buff with force crush that probably would help more with mobility in PVP I am guessing?

 

That's what I meant by more mobility in PVP, if one class has more chance to wade through snares, KBs, and general CC. I don't see any such buffs with carnage.

 

That is 100 % the rage tree. All of them have similar abilities for staying on target though that can be taken in the skill select tree.

 

I am currently playing Watchmen sent and having a blast, not sure what the first person was saying about its lowest survivabilility.

[teclado]

Hey Lhancelot, I would recommend Fury spec if you are going to be playing solo. It will have the easiest time navigating through all the CC, and it doesn't rely so much on ravage for burst damage unlike Carnage. So it feels very mobile. Furious Strike, Raging Burst, Force Crush, Force Scream, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, Battering Assault, Dual Saber Throw - can all be used on the move. The burst damage from Fury is actually quite good. Leap, Force Crush (6 sec CC immunity!!!), Ravage, Furious Strike (auto-crit after Ravage from pvp set bonus), Raging Burst (auto-crit after leap), Vicious Throw (if target below 30%), Vicious Slash for filler, 10m leap if they try to run away = target has achieved deadness. Oh and Berserk generates rage, so you almost never have to use basic attack.

 

Of Course, if the stars align and your opponent doesn't do anything to disrupt your Gore window, yeah you can light people up with Carnage. But how often does that happen in pvp? For mobile abilities, you have Massacre, Devastating Blast, Battering Assault, Dual Saber Throw....and that's pretty much it. The play-style consists of this: use Leap and/or Battering Assault to build Rage, Massacre (for Vicious Throw Proc) --> Gore-Ravage-Devastating Blast burst window (and pray that you don't get disrupted) or Gore-Vicious Throw-Devastating Blast. In between burst windows, it's just Massacre, Massacre, Massacre, Assault or Battering Assualt or Dual Saber Throw. Personally, I find this to be rather boring (spamming Massacre over and over and over). I think that people know to use stun/knockback during Ravage, so it can be difficult to get full potential out of it. I think that people see the awesome theoretical burst potential of Carnage in pvp, but forget about all of the times in which it can be easily negated.

 

Annihilation can be fun. It certainly has the lowest burst, highest sustained. Annihilate hits really hard, however. Other than that, not many bursty abilities. Anni can put up some big numbers if you manage to get some good DoT spreading Smashes on tight groups of reds. Like Fury, Anni feels pretty mobile. It can actually be quite good in 1v1 situations due to the self heals from the DoTs. Anni is also good at harassing healers, but so is Fury and Carnage.

 

If you are like me and prefer mobility and burst, you'd probably prefer Fury. I know that I perform the best in warzones when I am Fury spec. Ok, well I think that's enough from me. Yeah, I like Fury.

Edited February 1, 2016 by teclado

[Lhancelot]

Hey Lhancelot, I would recommend Fury spec if you are going to be playing solo. It will have the easiest time navigating through all the CC, and it doesn't rely so much on ravage for burst damage unlike Carnage. So it feels very mobile. Furious Strike, Raging Burst, Force Crush, Force Scream, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, Battering Assault, Dual Saber Throw - can all be used on the move. The burst damage from Fury is actually quite good. Leap, Force Crush (6 sec CC immunity!!!), Ravage, Furious Strike (auto-crit after Ravage from pvp set bonus), Raging Burst (auto-crit after leap), Vicious Throw (if target below 30%), Vicious Slash for filler, 10m leap if they try to run away = target has achieved deadness. Oh and Berserk generates rage, so you almost never have to use basic attack.

 

Of Course, if the stars align and your opponent doesn't do anything to disrupt your Gore window, yeah you can light people up with Carnage. But how often does that happen in pvp? For mobile abilities, you have Massacre, Devastating Blast, Battering Assault, Dual Saber Throw....and that's pretty much it. The play-style consists of this: use Leap and/or Battering Assault to build Rage, Massacre (for Vicious Throw Proc) --> Gore-Ravage-Devastating Blast burst window (and pray that you don't get disrupted) or Gore-Vicious Throw-Devastating Blast. In between burst windows, it's just Massacre, Massacre, Massacre, Assault or Battering Assualt or Dual Saber Throw. Personally, I find this to be rather boring (spamming Massacre over and over and over). I think that people know to use stun/knockback during Ravage, so it can be difficult to get full potential out of it. I think that people see the awesome theoretical burst potential of Carnage in pvp, but forget about all of the times in which it can be easily negated.

 

Annihilation can be fun. It certainly has the lowest burst, highest sustained. Annihilate hits really hard, however. Other than that, not many bursty abilities. Anni can put up some big numbers if you manage to get some good DoT spreading Smashes on tight groups of reds. Like Fury, Anni feels pretty mobile. It can actually be quite good in 1v1 situations due to the self heals from the DoTs. Anni is also good at harassing healers, but so is Fury and Carnage.

 

If you are like me and prefer mobility and burst, you'd probably prefer Fury. I know that I perform the best in warzones when I am Fury spec. Ok, well I think that's enough from me. Yeah, I like Fury.

 

Alright, thanks man. Will check them out, again. I want to try them for myself just to broaden my knowledge of the classes.

[Lhancelot]

The burst damage from Fury is actually quite good. Leap, Force Crush (6 sec CC immunity!!!), Ravage, Furious Strike (auto-crit after Ravage from pvp set bonus), Raging Burst (auto-crit after leap), Vicious Throw (if target below 30%), Vicious Slash for filler, 10m leap if they try to run away = target has achieved deadness. Oh and Berserk generates rage, so you almost never have to use basic attack.

 

So do you not use force scream or smash?

[RGMetal]

I love Concentration/Fury; loads of fun, especially when people blow stuns on you during the immunity. For mobility, with the 30sec trans/pred and the rootbreak talent it's hard to get pinned down.

 

Admittedly I'm not hte best senti, but having fun with it.

 

I would only use smash when you're gonna hit 3 ore more people. Scream is part of my normal dmg list.

Edited February 2, 2016 by RGMetal

[Arkillon]

Carnage is op as **** if you don't suck

[JouerTue]

carnage is good against bads, you find a good player and he can easily shut you down..keep cc/kb for gore windows and it's done.

 

fury is the best for pvp thanks to cc immunity tied to force crush and close to zero set up burst.

 

anni has improved thanks to shortened dots, double anni stacks and twin saber throw buffs, but self heals are not that good and out of set up burst it's not a hard hitter ( 3 dots+annihilate ).

 

see if you like the predation on CD utility, it changes gameplay a lot but some don't like it.

[AngusFTW]

Carnage/Fury for burst. Fury is the most mobile of the 2 due to 2nd leap that breaks roots. Carnage probably has slightly more burst but fury is no slouch either. Apart from the 2nd leap of fury the mobility of all specs is pretty similar its all in the utilities you take! Edited February 2, 2016 by AngusFTW

[Yezzan]

Well, I saw a video with the burst rotation of marauders, and the only spec that kill the player in one GCD was carnage; however, the best spec for PvP, in my opinion would be Annihilation/watchman. In terms of mobility, I think it's a none issue since, you can spec in predation. Carnage is at a slight disadvantage because most of your burst is reliant upon ravage, and most players will mezz you before you can get the final tick of ravage off or you well have to cancel it before time to interrupt or something. The problem with rage/concentration is you have to follow your rotation to the letter or you will find yourself out of force/rage and have to be using basic attack to regen resource. So, Annihilation is best because your dots will always be up and they refund HP (and resource?), plus your dots are instant and spammable. Edited February 2, 2016 by Yezzan

[AngusFTW]

Being too reliant on ravage as carnage is a mistake in this current day and age. It doesn't do as much dmg as it used to circa 2.0 and is a giant stun me button.

 

I mean ravage with berserk into blast is still good and can be used when you know you aren't going to get stunned but it shouldn't be your bread and butter. Blast and vicious throw/dispatch under gore are probably what gives the most upfront burst (when execute autocrit proc is up) these days and you aren't as likely to get stunned pulling it off.

[Yezzan]

Being too reliant on ravage as carnage is a mistake in this current day and age. It doesn't do as much dmg as it used to circa 2.0 and is a giant stun me button.

 

I mean ravage with berserk into blast is still good and can be used when you know you aren't going to get stunned but it shouldn't be your bread and butter. Blast and vicious throw/dispatch under gore are probably what gives the most upfront burst (when execute autocrit proc is up) these days and you aren't as likely to get stunned pulling it off.

 

That is why I said Annihilation is the best because the only way to burst down a player, with Carnage, is with ravage under a gore window with berserk and blood thirst up, whereas with Annihilation, its the ticks for your dots, which are applied up front, that will kill the target in the same GCD. And even if you get stunned, your dots would still be doing damage.

 

If you are up against a DOT spec like a madness sorc then it's unlikely that carnage or fury would win a 1v1. The problem in PvP is that everyone is always running away so its kinda hard to have decent uptime....carnage suffers here more than the other two, but annihilation can maintain uptime because of the application of dots, even ravage has a dot (albeit for all warriors).

Edited February 2, 2016 by Yezzan

[Ruhun]

That is why I said Annihilation is the best because the only way to burst down a player, with Carnage, is with ravage under a gore window with berserk and blood thirst up, whereas with Annihilation, its the ticks for your dots, which are applied up front, that will kill the target in the same GCD. And even if you get stunned, your dots would still be doing damage.

 

If you are up against a DOT spec like a madness sorc then it's unlikely that carnage or fury would win a 1v1. The problem in PvP is that everyone is always running away so its kinda hard to have decent uptime....carnage suffers here more than the other two, but annihilation can maintain uptime because of the application of dots, even ravage has a dot (albeit for all warriors).

 

1v1 Madness sorcs all the time as Carnage.

Anni Maras give me a harder time because even if I kill them their DoTs keep ticking forever, and I tend to have very low health after I 1v1 Anni. With Madness I have them popping bubble and self healing before they can do any significant damage.

[Lhancelot]

carnage is good against bads, you find a good player and he can easily shut you down..keep cc/kb for gore windows and it's done.

 

fury is the best for pvp thanks to cc immunity tied to force crush and close to zero set up burst.

 

anni has improved thanks to shortened dots, double anni stacks and twin saber throw buffs, but self heals are not that good and out of set up burst it's not a hard hitter ( 3 dots+annihilate ).

 

see if you like the predation on CD utility, it changes gameplay a lot but some don't like it.

 

Yesterday on a new 60 I played around in mids with carnage a lot, and when I managed to get off 3-4 attacks they were obliterated, the problem was if they got peels, if they knocked me back, snared, whatever else I did nothing. I simply found it too frustrating.

 

Then I tried fury. Totally different experience, I still can't believe how much more smoother it is. I could stay on target much better. I guess that immunity granted by force crush really is useful.

 

My damage wasn't as bursty with fury, but my overall damage increased by 25% for the matches, obviously because I was able to land my attacks better.

 

another thing is I found it much more smooth gameplay, my mobility with predation on 30 sec cooldown seems awesome. I really can't see not having this tbh.

 

What other utilities do you think are best other than the predation buff?

[chosonman]

Call me biased but carange is the best pure speed class out there. The spec is designed for fast hitting. The more you hit the stronger you get, defensively and offensively. I run a max alarcity enhancements build a it's a load of fun. I can kill mercs and sorces in one rotation admittedly if theyre bad.

 

My opener -

Leap - blade rush - valorous call - zen- zelous strike - blade dance - Precision Strike (clashing blast - dispatch) - force stasis - blade rush - blade rush

 

This is about a 12 second rotaion if fine correctly - blade dance is 2.1 seconds, precision strike window is 3 seconds, force stasis is 4 seconds.

Edited February 2, 2016 by chosonman

[Quarast]

Yesterday on a new 60 I played around in mids with carnage a lot, and when I managed to get off 3-4 attacks they were obliterated, the problem was if they got peels, if they knocked me back, snared, whatever else I did nothing. I simply found it too frustrating.

 

Then I tried fury. Totally different experience, I still can't believe how much more smoother it is. I could stay on target much better. I guess that immunity granted by force crush really is useful.

 

My damage wasn't as bursty with fury, but my overall damage increased by 25% for the matches, obviously because I was able to land my attacks better.

 

another thing is I found it much more smooth gameplay, my mobility with predation on 30 sec cooldown seems awesome. I really can't see not having this tbh.

 

What other utilities do you think are best other than the predation buff?

 

The one that gives you fury each time you're attacked really helps have berserk up more often. I also take the one that snares on force charge,obliterate, rend, and blast

[Ruhun]

Call me biased but carange is the best pure speed class out there. The spec is designed for fast hitting. The more you hit the stronger you get, defensively and offensively. I run a max alarcity enhancements build a it's a load of fun. I can kill mercs and sorces in one rotation admittedly if theyre bad.

 

My opener -

Leap - blade rush - valorous call - zen- zelous strike - blade dance - Precision Strike (clashing blast - dispatch) - force stasis - blade rush - blade rush

 

This is about a 12 second rotaion if fine correctly - blade dance is 2.1 seconds, precision strike window is 3 seconds, force stasis is 4 seconds.

 

Does Alacrity help that much?

I run a Crit/Power heavy Mara.

[teclado]

For utilities, I go with the following:

Brazen, Overwhelm, Maiming Reach or Inexorable

Relentless, Phantom or Defensive Roll

Unbound, Expunging Camouflage

 

I'm intrigued to try out a heavy alacrity build with Carnage. I don't think that Fury would benefit. I run a zero alacrity, 101% accuracy Fury build, and am experimenting with high crit (almost 1600 right now).

Edited February 2, 2016 by teclado

[chosonman]

Does Alacrity help that much?

I run a Crit/Power heavy Mara.

 

It only helps if you play fast, meaning you need to be thinking 2-4 moves ahead and hit the next skill right away, any hesitation negates the benefit. I find that I'm never waiting for a skill to cooldown so the pace is fast especially combined with zen. The other benefit is that your densive cooldowns are much shorter, this is especially nice if you use transcendance and force cammo alot since the cooldoens will be about 25 seconds for each. At less than 7% alarcity I find the pace too slow, and I end up waiting for cooldowns. If youre looking for a good balance I recommend 10% alarcity and the rest in crit and power. Im running 16% just cause it's so fast. It's fun unloading a full bar of focus with blade rush in seconds on a sorc while watching his health bar melt away.

Edited February 2, 2016 by chosonman

[Ruhun]

It only helps if you play fast, meaning you need to be thinking 2-4 ahead, any hesitation negates the benefit. I find that I'm never waiting for a skill to cooldown so the pace is fast especially combined with zen. The other benefit is that your densive cooldowns are much shorter, this is especially nice if you use transcendance and force cammo alot since the cooldoens will be about 25 seconds for each. At less than 7% alarcity I find the pace too slow, and I end up waiting for cooldowns. If youre looking for a good balance I recommend 10% alarcity and the rest in crit and power. Im running 16% just cause it's so fast. It's fun unloading a full bar of focus with blade rush in seconds on a sorc while watching his health bar melt away.

 

 

 

I'll try it out tonight and see how it goes.

 

I'm at 40/70 Crit/Surge.

[chosonman]

Based on my unscientific tests, with max crit build you may hit about 10% higher per crit, but that's probably negated somewhat by the increase in attack speed and defensive benefits of having a shorter cooldown. Alnd if you're rolling combat its gives you more chances to hit precision slash. With zen and a 2.1 seconds, blade dance is over before the target can even react.

[Ruhun]

Based on my unscientific tests, with max crit build you may hit about 10% higher per crit, but that's probably negated somewhat by the increase in attack speed and defensive benefits of having a shorter cooldown. Alnd if you're rolling combat its gives you more chances to hit precision slash. With zen and a 2.1 seconds, blade dance is over before the target can even react.

 

I found myself doing less damage with this build.

[Arkillon]

Again, carnage is op if you aren't bad.

 

Let me elaborate. If you know mara well enough so that you know to save your cooldowns and have the proper utilities, how to keep your rage up too and assuming you don't use ravage without gore/berserk, it's the best. Rage is very very predictable, because of its buffs, and the way to make your hits crit harder. You need to use berserk or crush, which indicated (most likely) an incoming burst window. Whereas carnage, there's 3 seconds in which you can burst hard as ****, and you can't predict when gore is gonna happen, it's off gcd, and you SHOULD use it when berserk is already up.

 

Even if you were to use force choke, the gcd comes off before its last tick, that alone is enough for anyone to not be able to tell when you'll use gore + deva blast. It's like a 95% garanteed 15-18k crit. Plus if the person breaks your cc... Woot you can use ravage and make sure they don't ****. Or you can use mad dash, turn around and leap to them, in which case they'll probably have the reflex to knock you back.. No stunbreak and no kb? You're most likely at full resolve by then, with a berserk and a gore ready. Enjoy the 2.2 ravage with gore and a 15-18k cri at the end. Then massacre massacre choke gf etc.

 

So yeah. Carnage REQUIRES you to know the class extremely well, and the enemy class. Fury carries you. You want 600-700 alacrity as carnage (enough for 2.2 ravage), rest crit, 5% accuracy. You NEED to know at all times exactly what you'll do the next 4 GCDs, and what'll change if the enemy uses a def cd, a kb, a stun etc.. You have to be constantly on your targets and leap elsewhere as soon as you'll be wasting damage against a pt with hydraulics, for example. Don't chase your targets to the point where you're useless, pick the guys that already used their stunbreak or kb's. Carnage is for killing blows and high burst, don't waste that burst on someone that's mitigating 30% damage. You want to use it on a target that's healing enemies in the back, so that he panics and heal himself, which lets your team kill 1-2 players idealy. Carnage is super personal as to who you'll attack. Use your leaps to stop someone from getting away, stop an innervate, etc. Be smart about your utility, don't waste when it can be used better elsewhere, mistakes cost more as carnage than rage.

 

Also yeah. You have to have really good reflexes and a high level of concentration, don't expecct to global someone just because of gore, it requires a lot of strategy. No, it's not for casuals.