Switch Advanced Classes

[Mordresh]

I think I'm not alone when I say I have a really old character that I'm kind of bored with. But looking at all the achievements and everything I've done over the years with him, the thought of starting a new character just fills me with fatigue.

 

My suggestion: Let us switch advanced classes so we can breath some new life into our old characters.

 

Arguments in favour:

- We can switch to an almost new class without feeling like all our progress over the year was for nothing.

- The "Leveling is how you learn your class"-argument no longer applies, since we already have instant level 60 tokens.

- Bioware makes fat loads of cash by putting this on the Cartel market.

- Bioware doesn't need to invest in new content to keep people interested for this as the classes are already there.

- People won't lose their Alliance Companions/Titles/Achievements/Mounts/Pets/Armour.

-You'll still have your friendslist and people will still have you in theirs.

 

Cons:

- It would take up some of the development resources.

 

Also before someone posts: "They warned you it was permanent when you picked your advanced class." I'm not debating that, I'm suggesting they change it.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Mordresh

[JediRelentless]

I'd rather see the Devs devote the resources to more important features. Just go buy an instant 60.

[PorsaLindahl]

Don't know what's up with the influx of AC swapping lately, but it's a dead horse. It was never stated that it was something they'd (BW) would do. The one dev that said "It may be possible" has been gone for well over a year. And "May be possible" doesn't mean that it is possible or that they'd even take it with a grain of salt.

 

If you only have 1 character after 4 years, then kudos to you. That's a lot of dedication to 1 character.

 

In case you haven't noticed, with the plethora of other threads, leveling now is a joke. You can roll a new character and be 65 within a few days. Or buy a 60 and be 65 in a few hours.

[Ratajack]

I think I'm not alone when I say I have a really old character that I'm kind of bored with. But looking at all the achievements and everything I've done over the years with him, the thought of starting a new character just fills me with fatigue.

 

My suggestion: Let us switch advanced classes so we can breath some new life into our old characters.

 

Arguments in favour:

- We can switch to an almost new class without feeling like all our progress over the year was for nothing.

- The "Leveling is how you learn your class"-argument no longer applies, since we already have instant level 60 tokens.

- Bioware makes fat loads of cash by putting this on the Cartel market.

- Bioware doesn't need to invest in new content to keep people interested for this as the classes are already there.

 

Cons:

- Not a dang thing I can think of.

 

Also before someone posts: "They warned you it was permanent when you picked your advanced class." I'm not debating that, I'm suggesting they change it.

 

I'm going to remind you that you were told at least 4 separate times by no less than 2 separate NPC's that your choice was, as you said, PERMANENT. You even acknowledge that you know that your choice was PERMANENT.

 

Now, you're not happy with it being permanent and want BW to change it?

 

I certainly hope they do NOT.

 

BTW, the cons have been listed in all of the various other threads asking to be able to switch classes (AC). The fact that you refuse to even acknowledge that there may even be cons, let alone the fact that there ARE cons, does not negate those cons.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Ratajack

[psandak]

I think I'm not alone when I say I have a really old character that I'm kind of bored with. But looking at all the achievements and everything I've done over the years with him, the thought of starting a new character just fills me with fatigue.

 

Why does leveling a new character "fill you with fatigue"? Do you really think you HAVE to do ALL those achievements ALL OVER AGAIN?

 

Well you don't. I have a dozen characters but I only play THREE with any sort of regularity. I switched mains two years ago and recently switched back (was a tank, became a healerr, back to tank; due to guild needing tanks more than healers [and it coincided nicely with the fact that I wanted to run a Force-user through KotFE first anywway]). And on that old/new main character I discovered...OMG...DUN DUN DUH...I had never completed HM Battle of Ilum...until I got that achievement yesterday .

 

The point that just because you switch main or just make an alternate character does not mean you absolutely have to do everything you did on your (old) main... That is unless you in fact enjoy doing that stuff (I know players who do).

[Ratajack]

Why does leveling a new character "fill you with fatigue"? Do you really think you HAVE to do ALL those achievements ALL OVER AGAIN?

 

Well you don't. I have a dozen characters but I only play THREE with any sort of regularity. I switched mains two years ago and recently switched back (was a tank, became a healerr, back to tank; due to guild needing tanks more than healers [and it coincided nicely with the fact that I wanted to run a Force-user through KotFE first anywway]). And on that old/new main character I discovered...OMG...DUN DUN DUH...I had never completed HM Battle of Ilum...until I got that achievement yesterday .

 

The point that just because you switch main or just make an alternate character does not mean you absolutely have to do everything you did on your (old) main... That is unless you in fact enjoy doing that stuff (I know players who do).

 

It pretty much boils down to an aversion to the (even more minimal than ever) effort required to actually level that knew character.

 

There is a word that fits.

[Clone_Enforcer]

I think I'm not alone when I say I have a really old character that I'm kind of bored with. But looking at all the achievements and everything I've done over the years with him, the thought of starting a new character just fills me with fatigue.

 

My suggestion: Let us switch advanced classes so we can breath some new life into our old characters.

 

Arguments in favour:

- We can switch to an almost new class without feeling like all our progress over the year was for nothing.

- The "Leveling is how you learn your class"-argument no longer applies, since we already have instant level 60 tokens.

- Bioware makes fat loads of cash by putting this on the Cartel market.

- Bioware doesn't need to invest in new content to keep people interested for this as the classes are already there.

 

Cons:

- Not a dang thing I can think of.

 

Also before someone posts: "They warned you it was permanent when you picked your advanced class." I'm not debating that, I'm suggesting they change it.

 

I agree with mordesh, I want to be a commando, but I'd like to be a tank every once in a while. I don't like the idea of starting over again with another trooper character just to use another class. I've already seen what the trooper's story is like. Why would I want to do it again from scratch? Instead, they should also put this feature where players can revisit their class stories with the same character in challenge mode like Ratchet and Clank or Jak 3.

[Vhaegrant]

OP, there's a thread -> http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=644159 that's been discussing the merits of your suggestion for the last 3 years or so

 

You'll probably see a few familiar names if you take a peek

[Vhaegrant]

I'm going to remind you that you were told at least 4 separate times by no less than 2 separate NPC's that your choice was, as you said, PERMANENT. You even acknowledge that you know that your choice was PERMANENT.

 

Now, you're not happy with it being permanent and want BW to change it?

 

I certainly hope they do NOT.

 

BTW, the cons have been listed in all of the various other threads asking to be able to switch classes (AC). The fact that you refuse to even acknowledge that there may even be cons, let alone the fact that there ARE cons, does not negate those cons.

Perish the thought that someone would make a suggestion for a game change on the suggestions forum

 

There's only one con that bears any merit and that's the fact that it would take valuable dev time away from other areas of the game.

 

It pretty much boils down to an aversion to the (even more minimal than ever) effort required to actually level that knew character.

 

There is a word that fits.

If the effort is so minimal and a joke why are you adverse to people paying to bypass it? They can pay for a level 60 that would also give them a spare character for storage and running dailies. All they are asking for is to have a little more flexibility in role selection, a feature many MMOs incorporate without any fee.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[Mordresh]

I'd rather see the Devs devote the resources to more important features.

 

I'm sure they could spare one dev from recoloring the Troublemaker Coat in the next cartel pack to do this instead.

 

Don't know what's up with the influx of AC swapping lately ...

 

I know, it's almost like this is a feature people want and would pay for! Also, yes I leveled each class but I am still playing my very first character from early access almost exclusively. Every now and then I play a warzone with an alt instead.

 

<snip>

 

You are more than welcome to list the cons.

 

As for the amount of effort required, for a person with only an hour to game every other day it's more a choice between do I want to have fun during that one hour or do I want to regrind the story/alliance companions/PvP gear & ranks etc.

 

OP, there's a thread -> http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=644159 that's been discussing the merits of your suggestion for the last 3 years or so

 

You'll probably see a few familiar names if you take a peek

 

Thanks, i think that's where I got the idea in my head of how cool it would be to switch to another advanced class but then I couldn't find the thread anymore.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Mordresh

[XiamaraSimi]

They cant even try to change a hat on an NPC without breaking 27 quests and the GTN and you want them to screw with character/class codes? No thanks.

 

Just use an instant 60 token if you want to not be what you are that badly, and let them leave well enough alone, id rather not have the classes be borked six ways to sunday because your lazy.

Edited January 22, 2016 by XiamaraSimi

[Vhaegrant]

Thanks, i think that's where I got the idea in my head of how cool it would be to switch to another advanced class but then I couldn't find the thread anymore.

You're welcome

 

I think it would be a handy feature for some, but it would all depend on how it was implemented.

 

An additional aspect that would add to the workload but make the feature more attractive would be to add in an extra AC for each class. Something that could cover the missing roles for those classes that don't offer all 3 (4 if you count ranged DPS and melee DPS) or offer up different weapon/ animation combinations.

[Vhaegrant]

They cant even try to change a hat on an NPC without breaking 27 quests and the GTN and you want them to screw with character codes? No thanks.

 

Just use an instant 60 token if you want to not be what you are that bad, and let them leave well enough alone, id rather not have the classes be borked six ways to sunday because your lazy.

 

I'm not going to trivialise the developer time to implement such a function but they've already removed some of the hurdles that once stood in the way.

 

At one time you would have had to keep track of the progression of abilities that were unique to the Advanced Class. As they had training costs this could leave a character unable to repurchase all the abilities.

However, now ability training is free. There really isn't any need to keep track of abilities (or even visit a trainer past level 61) it would just set those abilities back to the appropriate rank for the level of the character.

 

The biggest issue is the equipment change. Some types of armour and offhands are not equipable by the alternative AC. You would need to have a code that checked inventory space, and stripped the character of inappropriate items.

Now a little bit of coding and you could have the AC swap function tied to a location that required you to empty your own gear slots. For example a locker back at the class trainers. You could go a step further and just make all armour types adaptive (that would at least deal with the Juggernaut <-> Marauder issue).

There is still a minor issue of a character not having a great set of gear for their new role, but that is an existing problem with discipline swaps.

[JediRelentless]

I'm sure they could spare one dev from recoloring the Troublemaker Coat in the next cartel pack to do this instead.

 

I can't take you seriously if you think this would be as easy to implement as recoloring a piece of gear and you can't just pull an employee from one department and ask them to do a task that might require a different type of skill and expertise.

Edited January 22, 2016 by JediRelentless

[Ratajack]

I'm sure they could spare one dev from recoloring the Troublemaker Coat in the next cartel pack to do this instead.

 

 

 

I know, it's almost like this is a feature people want and would pay for! Also, yes I leveled each class but I am still playing my very first character from early access almost exclusively. Every now and then I play a warzone with an alt instead.

 

 

 

You are more than welcome to list the cons.

 

As for the amount of effort required, for a person with only an hour to game every other day it's more a choice between do I want to have fun during that one hour or do I want to regrind the story/alliance companions/PvP gear & ranks etc.

 

 

 

Thanks, i think that's where I got the idea in my head of how cool it would be to switch to another advanced class but then I couldn't find the thread anymore.

 

As for the list of cons, you can go back and read any or all of the threads asking to change class (AC) for yourself, unless you are too LAZY to do that also. I will not do the work or research for you.

 

The devs are on record as stating that the AC's are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS, and that they were treated as FULL CLASSES. There are 8 story lines as a cost saving measure, so they did not have to write 16 stories (one for each class), then do the cutscenes, voice acting, etc.

 

While the possibility of AC changing was discussed briefly before release, it was NOT in the original design and the decision to keep AC choice PERMANENT was made before release.

 

The devs could not even make AC swap without breaking the game on dev shard. What does that say about the difficulty of getting it to work on live servers?

[PorsaLindahl]

You all should be happy you can re-spec within the AC instead of being locked into one forever. I can just imagine the whining if that were the case. You'd have to roll 6 of each class to learn all of the specs. It would be an alt-aholic's dream.

[Vhaegrant]

As for the list of cons, you can go back and read any or all of the threads asking to change class (AC) for yourself, unless you are too LAZY to do that also. I will not do the work or research for you.

The only con that has stood the test of discussion has been the diversion of developer resources from other content development.

The devs are on record as stating that the AC's are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS, and that they were treated as FULL CLASSES. There are 8 story lines as a cost saving measure, so they did not have to write 16 stories (one for each class), then do the cutscenes, voice acting, etc.

The devs are also on record as saying 'We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually'.

The truth is all the devs that are being quoted have left the game and things are subject to change.

While the possibility of AC changing was discussed briefly before release, it was NOT in the original design and the decision to keep AC choice PERMANENT was made before release.

Discussed briefly? That's slightly disingenuous. It was announced at a fairly large event in the lead up to the games launch.

And, as mentioned above things change. MMOs are different than other games, over their hopefully long lifespan they evolve, new features are added, old features are modified. There are plenty of systems that have been altered or abandoned since launch.

The devs could not even make AC swap without breaking the game on dev shard. What does that say about the difficulty of getting it to work on live servers?

Yeah, cause dev shards are renowned for their stability

I would say it says very little to the difficulty but may suggest some of the coding they would need to do... such as making sure offhands that would be inappropriate for the AC get removed (I believe that was the underlying cause of the issue you are referring to).

Edited January 22, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[TX_Angel]

I'm going to remind you that you were told at least 4 separate times by no less than 2 separate NPC's that your choice was, as you said, PERMANENT. You even acknowledge that you know that your choice was PERMANENT.

 

Meh, lots of stuff that was not possible, now is... Times change, things change...

 

Now, you're not happy with it being permanent and want BW to change it?

 

Yea, it is a computer game, they can do whatever they want. Including changing things like this.

 

BTW, the cons have been listed in all of the various other threads asking to be able to switch classes (AC). The fact that you refuse to even acknowledge that there may even be cons, let alone the fact that there ARE cons, does not negate those cons.

 

Most of those cons no longer apply. The VAST majority of "cons" really boil down to: "You won't know how to play the new AC, you need to learn as you level".

 

Clearly THAT no longer applies. The difference between swapping an AC at lvl 65 and rolling a fresh lvl 60 is more or less nothing.

[TX_Angel]

As for the list of cons, you can go back and read any or all of the threads asking to change class (AC) for yourself, unless you are too LAZY to do that also. I will not do the work or research for you.

 

The devs are on record as stating that the AC's are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS, and that they were treated as FULL CLASSES. There are 8 story lines as a cost saving measure, so they did not have to write 16 stories (one for each class), then do the cutscenes, voice acting, etc.

 

While the possibility of AC changing was discussed briefly before release, it was NOT in the original design and the decision to keep AC choice PERMANENT was made before release.

 

The devs could not even make AC swap without breaking the game on dev shard. What does that say about the difficulty of getting it to work on live servers?

 

You're going to pop a blood vessel with all that rage, chill out.

 

A LOT of stuff has been changed since launch, this can be too...

[TX_Angel]

The biggest issue is the equipment change. Some types of armour and offhands are not equipable by the alternative AC. You would need to have a code that checked inventory space, and stripped the character of inappropriate items.

Now a little bit of coding and you could have the AC swap function tied to a location that required you to empty your own gear slots. For example a locker back at the class trainers. You could go a step further and just make all armour types adaptive (that would at least deal with the Juggernaut <-> Marauder issue).

 

Why is gear an issue? Leave it as it is, don't complicate matters.

 

Just put a simple pop-up warning box that says "your existing gear may not work for your new AC, you are responsible to gear your toon properly if you wish your new AC to be effective".

 

And leave it at that.

 

If the MH/OH weapon/shield/focus item physically changes, simply have that item stripped and dropped in the mailbox back to you, you're left to gear yourself.

[Vhaegrant]

Why is gear an issue? Leave it as it is, don't complicate matters.

 

Just put a simple pop-up warning box that says "your existing gear may not work for your new AC, you are responsible to gear your toon properly if you wish your new AC to be effective".

 

And leave it at that.

 

If the MH/OH weapon/shield/focus item physically changes, simply have that item stripped and dropped in the mailbox back to you, you're left to gear yourself.

I don't have an issue with what you've suggested above but I think the coding does

 

A few detractors have mentioned issues on a dev shard while demonstrating the discipline changes that rolled out with 3.0. I didn't see it at the time, it may still evist on you tube or their twitch channel but I believe it was mentioned the issue was down to not unequipping the off hand before the AC swap was performed (this is third party information so I may well be wrong, but it does sound within the realm of possibility).

 

Far better (and potentially easier) to unequip all potential clashes of gear. Basic stats don't make a difference (so earpieces, implants and relics should be safe), it is only the restricted gear types (Some of the older armour sets that are restricted by class, or the obsolete armour type (light, medium, heavy). And of course the main and offhand gear) that are of concern.

 

It also puts in a small restriction to where and when you can carry out an AC swap. You know a bone to throw to the detractors that don't want it to be easy. I'd be fine with a trip back to the original AC trainers on fleet (or the discipline swap guy on fleet or the home world) or even a terminal that can be purchased for ship or stronghold.

[PorsaLindahl]

It also puts in a small restriction to where and when you can carry out an AC swap. You know a bone to throw to the detractors that don't want it to be easy. I'd be fine with a trip back to the original AC trainers on fleet (or the discipline swap guy on fleet or the home world) or even a terminal that can be purchased for ship or stronghold.

 

If, by some unforeseen miracle, BW does incorporates this, then they'd have to put restrictions on it's use. A 15 minute cooldown, more than once every 24 hours would cost incrementally more money, etc.

 

In City of Heroes/Villains with their advanced classes (Arachnos Soldiers and Seers) at a certain level, they could split their specialty in 2 directions (ranged and melee), but were still able to pick skills for both. Then they gave them the ability to switch between the 2 specs but put a 15 minute cooldown on swapping. But even that was still within the same advanced class. A Soldier couldn't become a Seer and vice versa.

[Vhaegrant]

If, by some unforeseen miracle, BW does incorporates this, then they'd have to put restrictions on it's use. A 15 minute cooldown, more than once every 24 hours would cost incrementally more money, etc.

 

In City of Heroes/Villains with their advanced classes (Arachnos Soldiers and Seers) at a certain level, they could split their specialty in 2 directions (ranged and melee), but were still able to pick skills for both. Then they gave them the ability to switch between the 2 specs but put a 15 minute cooldown on swapping. But even that was still within the same advanced class. A Soldier couldn't become a Seer and vice versa.

Why does there always have to be such a punitive counter?

 

If you look at the core mechanics behind Advanced Class it's to separate out a few of the AC core abilities from each other. The most obvious example to build on is that of the AC core healing or tanking abilities.

I mainly play Bounty Hunters (not so much for the class story, but for the facial tattoos on the humans ) and a Powertech can equip shield generators and adopt a tank stance even if they are in the Pyro/Advanced Prototype discipline. Similarly the Mercenary has access to some self heals and crowd control whether they are in the healing discipline or not.

This AC divide is in place so that a character can be a Healer OR Tank and not a hybrid.

 

However as long as that segregation is maintained there is no reason why role choice shouldn't be more flexible.

 

A classic example is the Druid in World of Warcraft. Here we have a single class that can perform Tank, Heal, MeleeDPS and RangedDPS, on the same character. Access to all four roles available to the same character at any time... why would anyone play anything else? And yet they do

Edited January 22, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[Mrocznyszogun]

I'd rather see the Devs devote the resources to more important features. Just go buy an instant 60.

 

I agree ! would like to be able to change advanced class too.

[Mordresh]

There's seems to be a misconception going around with my OP so let me try and clear that up. I could still use my free level 60 token to get a new character. But this post isn't about that. I don't want to play a new toon.

 

I want to continue playing my existing toon that I've played for four years and have grown attached to. The playstyle on him has just gotten a bit boring after all this time, so changing his advanced class would fix that.