MikharaRadha Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 What really happened was this... The BSG pack release coincided with the changes to the regular monthly shipments. The number of items in them decreased from five or so, to one. These changes ALSO coincided with perhaps the worst cartel market shipment ever - I forget what it was called, Force Strategy, maybe. Doesn't matter what it was called, but It was the first one released with 4.0 and it had very little in it that was desirable, and you got much less of it. People revolted - self proclaimed "whales" came on the boards and stated they wouldn't buy new packs. It was a mess. People were upset and stopped buying the new packs, but there were still the BSG packs available. People bought them. They were somewhat popular, but overall revenue was down. EA panicked at the loss of revenue from the monthly packs, and pulled the BSG packs from the market - with the bogus promise that it was part of an evolving strategy, or some other marketing doublespeak - and that the packs would be back. At the SAME TIME, they listened to the feedback from the whales who said they would no longer buy packs, and they upped the amount of items that you received in the new monthly shipment packages back to two, plus the companion gifts and jawa scrap. The next pack that was released, again, I forget the name, was far superior in quality and had many more desirable items. Plus, with the new changes, you got more items in them, and it didn't feel like quite the ripoff that the first 4.0 pack felt like. Thus, packs began to sell again. But not as much as before, because a bunch of people who were bitter over the completely unrelated 4.0 changes, (Level Sync, no new ops, OP companions, companion nerfs, companion buffs, economy wrecking bugs) stopped playing altogether, and took their cartel pack money and their ball, and went home. The suits at EA misinterpreted what transpired and erroneously concluded that the BSG packs were hurting revenue, and not that they launched 4.0 with a crummy pack and reduced the drop rate drastically. Which led us to Eric's announcement, no doubt made with the hope that we would all forget that the BSG packs were supposed to be a permanent way to obtain older desirable items. When we didn't forget, we were treated to Eric's second post, which in fact told us nothing...except that EA/Bioware had a kneejerk reaction to a sudden loss of revenue, and blamed the BSG packs. We can all only hope that customer friendly changes to the cartel market will be implemented as part of their evolving "strategy". But I think we all know what will be coming. That said, I give you my humble, 9 part solution. 1) Don't make crummy packs. 2) Give more items in said packs. Really. Each pack should have two decorations and two armors pieces, at minimum. The items we buy with cartel coins, obtained with real life dollars, are in reality, useless virtual pixels. Not diamonds. There is no need to protect their artificial value. 3) Actually make cool armor and mounts. You know which ones are cool. Just give us more of the cool ones. There is no need to fill the packs with stuff that obviously sucks. Why do you do this? Is it so that we will appreciate the cool ones more? 4) Never make anything ever again with shoulder pads. 5) Get rid of the bronze mount and armor packs completely. No one wants bronze stuff. We all have dozens of useless copies of bronze items clogging up our cargo holds. 6) Keep Silver and Gold packs but change the pricing. Should be 300-600. Fifteen dollars for a one-off gamble on an armor set is ridiculous. Its just is. It is a third of the price of a new PC/Xbox/Playstation game. On the slim hope that I may win a particular arrangement of pixels. It is absurd. 7) Never make anything ever again with shoulder pads. 8) Allow us to buy any armor or mount we want, directly from the cartel market for 1500 cartel coins. 9) Make the packs a value, and we will buy. We all love the game. We want to spend that fifteen dollars, or that $39.99. Or maybe even that $99.95. We really do. We really really do. We just want to respect ourselves in the morning....And for our wives not to divorce us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xo-Lara Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 1) Don't make crummy packs. 2) Give more items in said packs. Really. Each pack should have two decorations and two armors pieces, at minimum. The items we buy with cartel coins, obtained with real life dollars, are in reality, useless virtual pixels. Not diamonds. There is no need to protect their artificial value. 3) Actually make cool armor and mounts. You know which ones are cool. Just give us more of the cool ones. There is no need to fill the packs with stuff that obviously sucks. Why do you do this? Is it so that we will appreciate the cool ones more? 4) Never make anything ever again with shoulder pads. 5) Get rid of the bronze mount and armor packs completely. No one wants bronze stuff. We all have dozens of useless copies of bronze items clogging up our cargo holds. 6) Keep Silver and Gold packs but change the pricing. Should be 300-600. Fifteen dollars for a one-off gamble on an armor set is ridiculous. Its just is. It is a third of the price of a new PC/Xbox/Playstation game. On the slim hope that I may win a particular arrangement of pixels. It is absurd. 7) Never make anything ever again with shoulder pads. 8) Allow us to buy any armor or mount we want, directly from the cartel market for 1500 cartel coins. 9) Make the packs a value, and we will buy. We all love the game. We want to spend that fifteen dollars, or that $39.99. Or maybe even that $99.95. We really do. We really really do. We just want to respect ourselves in the morning....And for our wives not to divorce us. While I wouldn't have necessarily put all of the items the same way, I think this sums up many pack issues nicely. First item enlarged for truthfulness. The issue was that the first two alliance packs were bad deals for the player and the player was keenly aware of that fact. Getting over on people tends to only work if they can't see the seams on the ploy. Edited January 11, 2016 by Xo-Lara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pscyon Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric Well then make it known to the CM team that the Cartel Market should evolve to a point where the BSGs have an availability that isn't just randomly for a week every few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlian Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'm not one of the people who thinks the game is overly buggy or broken in comparison to other games I played. When you release an expansion with the endgame completely unfinished (not unpolished, unfinished) like Sony did with EQ1, I might complain. It amazes me what people consider "broken" these days, and the game is doing just fine catering to the casual story set. Anyone who EVER thought it was in any way going to be a good pvp or hardcore raid venue or reach out to every gaming demographic after they saw it upon launch was mainlining the good stuff. I love this game, but it cannot possibly be all things to all players. I'm sure you went where the projected money is. CM though...when did I spend a lot of real money blowing it on virtual stuff? When you brought back all the previous packs prior to Nightlife last year. And not because I bought the packs. I bought specific items on the GTN, mostly rare old armor sets and mounts, from the people who bought the packs. Where you got lots of my real money was UNLOCKS. Specifically, the armor half off unlock sale. Your current unlock prices for gold and silver make me feel no desire to unlock anything. If you have a sale again, or reduce gold to about 300 and silver to 120, I would go to town. I used to spend boatloads on actual Magic: The Gathering cards. I know how rarity and RNG and value work just fine, and these days, I will farm virtual money up the wazoo to get a specific item on the GTN. Of course, that assumes some level of attainability, which you've been steadily reducing. If I can't get what I want on the GTN, I won't gamble for it. And you're ensuring the people who would gamble and then sell to me don't want to. Unlocks were a sure thing, though. I am totally a play-with-my-dolls person, who won't touch new companions because I can't dress them to match my toons. Lots of money gone there BTW. Who made that decision? It's not like there are that many humanoid companions who would have used clothes! Anyway, back to unlocks. I have something like 20-30 gold and silver unlocks waiting on my monthly CC grants. I would buy more CC, but not at the moment. Because....the...unlocks....are....too high. Like everyone here is saying, reducing prices would get you more money overall. The real economy sucks....we don't like to feel like we're wasting real money on virtual pixels. It should be a Starbucks coffee to buy this virtal stuff, not a gourmet dinner-feeling cost. It is now way over into "why am I spending $40 on this little of a virtual reward?" territory rather than "Whoohoo, I got 20+ unlocks this week, half-off, baby!" Guess which felt better to me? If you're catering to story-interested people, guess what else? We're into making toons and companions in our stories look good. Replayability, ya know? Make them unique, costume them. $$$! And duh, the younger people lured by Force Awakens that you want to see playing do not have the disposable income to sustain a lot of CM spending and unlocks at the current prices. So have a few sales, for the love of Yoda, if you won't lower prices more effectively. I cannot understand the overpricing strategy. You totally shut my spending sprees down. Including my purchases for my 9-year-old FTP niece, a devotee with a lovely Jedi Barbie since last year. I got her lots of pretty in pink stuff because you actually put it on sale. Half off! What happened to those on the expensive CM items? Eric, sorry you keep getting blasted, my "you's" refer to BW/EA. What PR rep has any choice in the majority of the announcements made? You do what you can with what you're given, and I wouldn't be stuck between us irate players and your management for anything. Despite my CM woes (and super thanks for finally acknowledging the companion romance bugs--my first and main toon is a fem consular romancing Iresso!), I really enjoy the game. And appreciate the overall quality of the devs' work. Since you mostly hear only how much everything sucks...not to me, I'm enjoying my 17 toons and their stories immensely. Even if I'm now totally turned off the entire CM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarekCyphus Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Yet again we see that eric and bw are just out of touch with the real issues. Yes your money making cartel will be updated but there are MAJOR issues with the game and we do not care anymore about your silly cartel packs. FIX your mess. They need to ask EA for permission, first. As a former SWG player, I'm seeing history repeating itself. First it was Nancy McIntyre at LucasArts ruling the direction of SOE and SWG's players, and now it's EA (already once voted most dubious company, btw) doing almost EXACTLY the same thing to BW and us. Nothing changes when your pockets are brimming with greenbacks and you're completely out of touch with your employees and their direct customers. It's like Hawaii Condo complex owners making armchair business decisions from their cozy estates in the Hamptons. It just doesn't work if you can't relate to the source of your revenue. Edited January 11, 2016 by JarekCyphus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'm surprised the Bioware Defense Force hasn't arrived yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaara Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'm surprised the Bioware Defense Force hasn't arrived yet. Most of them cancelled or have stopped receiving their checks from Bioware. So it's just us diehards left (well, until our temporary tourists leave anyway). Yes, even the defense squad most likely cancelled until more chapters are released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric Thank you for the reply. I asked you what changed. Your reply was "they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched." Respectfully, but that's just stating something we already knew and that was implicit in my question. Your next paragraph provides no further clarity, "the decision was made that BSG packs will not be consistent with the shipment packs..." That is literally just restating what we already knew. I know your job isn't really to answer the question plainly. I even know that you aren't allowed to be honest about that point or the real reason these were taken off the Cartel Market. But I really hope you realize that this just guts your and the team's credibility with the player base. I bought a few armor packs. I liked them. Much more than the general packs. I'm not a whale, more like an overweight dolphin I spend a bit on the CM, as much as I can reasonably hide from my wife. I will not buy any other packs until there are some fundamental changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xina_LA Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Well, it's Tuesday, January 12 and there aren't any BSG packs in the Cartel Market. Where can I find them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoofa Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 When the cartel market updates - so you'll see them. Calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoofa Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 When the cartel market updates - so you'll see them. Calm. Oh look - they are there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I'm surprised the Bioware Defense Force hasn't arrived yet. You must have missed my post then - I am super appreciative of these changes. They continue to help with me monopolising CM items on the GTN and keep me super game rich - thanks Bioware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadtechSavant Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) There really needs to be a list for each type of pack as to what is available in it. So the packs are back on cc, well have they been updated? Is there any items not available within them. Lets take a look at a few types of packs. The companion customisation ones. Is every possible customization available in it or are some omitted because they were given to players as promotions. Or take the toy packs, is the hutt trainer in it or not as this was also a promotional item. What about the companions from the last 3 cartel packs? have these been added, if so to which type of pack. if not will they in the future and if so to which type of pack/ This is something that should have been done from the start. |I love these types of packs but they have been presented in a very poor fashion Edited January 12, 2016 by DreadtechSavant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnJustPenguin Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) All these people saying they're going to not buy these in "protest" lets be honest you say one thing here but in game where no one knows, you will end up buying these packs . Maybe not all of you, but I'm willing to bet the majority will. It's what BW/LA/EA or whoever you blame are counting on, and they're right to count on it. Please stop, you're not fooling anyone. Edited January 12, 2016 by UnJustPenguin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 All these people saying they're going to not buy these in "protest" lets be honest you say one thing here but in game where no one knows, you will end up buying these packs . Maybe not all of you, but I'm willing to bet the majority will. It's what BW/LA/EA or whoever you blame are counting on, and they're right to count on it. Please stop, you're not fooling anyone. Indeed, the fact they are in this thread complaining means they will be all over them. Its a pretty sad state of affairs when a thread about the cash shop garners so many replies in such a short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pscyon Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Developer blog Players have been asking for a long time to have more access to previously released items and packs that are no longer available on the market, so we are going to make everything available on the market at all times (more details on that below). ....... We will be introducing new Grand Packs that are permanently available on the market are updated every time we introduce a new item. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. I'm curious, just what is Bioware's definition of "permanent"? Edited January 14, 2016 by Pscyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadtechSavant Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) It was later rescinded, What! you never change your mind on anything? Anyway BW did and these are no longer permanent and will return periodically between new cartel packs, as reported. in link below and in your own post where you even quote the report. So you know full well the "permanent" status was later changed. http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php Edited January 13, 2016 by DreadtechSavant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermist Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 BioWare should think more carefully on what they say officially, and how fast they take back what they said after they have said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCT Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I agree, they should NEVER change their minds - They should stick with things like companions nerf's and never listen to the players to see what they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I actually deceided to buy a gold pack last night I actually got Malgus set yay! I did not get a single piece of Malgus gear from 3 hypercrates from the shipment they was in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaedelyia Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Seems like they are more interested by short-term profit instead than healthy long-term economy at least in-game. (I suppose than they have number and prediction IRL that tells them it will be more profitable that way, unless it's just to meet a quota set by EA). I predict : initial boost of sales, pissed off customers because of broken promise, then nothing. This is a really bad news for people playing on low-population server. The initial burst of things put on the galactic market will be priced insanely high, and then, game over. Some item will be unobtainable anyway. Population isn't high enough to ensure that statistically all item present in pack will be sold on the market. That means Bioware will lose a huge credit sink, and that's not really a good thing for the long term economy of the game. Right now, if I speak for myself, cash flow is moving both way. I buy BSG from time to time, and the constant flow of item on the market make me spend IG credit on the GTN. I don't accumulate credit like some Scrooge McDuck. That means that if there's suddenly a very expensive item on the market, it's sometime easier to spend real money on cartel pack. However, with this new system, when BSG pack will be back up in a few month, I sure as hell will have enough credit to buy precisely what I want on the galactic market, instead of buying random BSG pack and trading them on the GTN. Bioware will get less money from me that way, that's for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Seems like they are more interested by short-term profit instead than healthy long-term economy at least in-game. (I suppose than they have number and prediction IRL that tells them it will be more profitable that way, unless it's just to meet a quota set by EA). I predict : initial boost of sales, pissed off customers because of broken promise, then nothing. This is a really bad news for people playing on low-population server. The initial burst of things put on the galactic market will be priced insanely high, and then, game over. Some item will be unobtainable anyway. Population isn't high enough to ensure that statistically all item present in pack will be sold on the market. That means Bioware will lose a huge credit sink, and that's not really a good thing for the long term economy of the game. Right now, if I speak for myself, cash flow is moving both way. I buy BSG from time to time, and the constant flow of item on the market make me spend IG credit on the GTN. I don't accumulate credit like some Scrooge McDuck. That means that if there's suddenly a very expensive item on the market, it's sometime easier to spend real money on cartel pack. However, with this new system, when BSG pack will be back up in a few month, I sure as hell will have enough credit to buy precisely what I want on the galactic market, instead of buying random BSG pack and trading them on the GTN. Bioware will get less money from me that way, that's for sure Ideally when they brought them back perm if had a detrimental effect on the economy. Everything that was rare was becoming common and it would have hit a point where the credit to CC rate dropped right off meaning anyone wanting to generate credits from CC would have been more deterred from doing so ... especially if they can asily make credits from just playing the game. Having it irregular keeps the value of rare items high whilst still injecting a new supply of said items every X amount of time. Sure it won't please everyone because not everyone wants to pay high prices for rare items, I'm sure they don't want to pay a small fortune for a Ferrari either but that's how it is and in terms of the game economy it's going to be better, not worse. Take yourself - you assume you will have enough credits to buy whatever you want when the BSG packs come back but if everyone was like you and not buying them then what exactly would you be buying? If when the BSG packs were around for weeks on end and say a set you wanted was 5 million because there were quite a few of them and now there are none but the BSG brings back a few logic dictates that price could easily be 10 million+ ( a real example is the primeval stalker set I was selling for 3-5 mill when they were common from BSG and now I can fetch 12 mill+ no worries from a couple I've got left ). Also where are you getting the credits to buy the super expensive items if you aren't buying CC to make credits? The only way to earn large amounts of credits like that I feel is a strong dedication to crafting ( in which case you never really need to buy CC ) or trading in CM GTN items ... for the later it again relies on people buying thep acks etc. for you to get the items to trade in. The former ... there are very few people I've found who make into the 100's of millions from crafting alone - it's not as easy as one would assume. As to low population economies meh ... they're stuffed anyway and servers need merging. One area where I feel BW have lost sight of is the removing of packs during the same shipment - the old style system of having each pack from a shipment and then embargoing the oldest pack each month once all 4 were out worked really well. Having only 1 pack available is basically devaluing the new shipment insanely ( nothing else to buy ) and make it very unattractive prospect to investment purchasers such as myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) All these people saying they're going to not buy these in "protest" lets be honest you say one thing here but in game where no one knows, you will end up buying these packs . Maybe not all of you, but I'm willing to bet the majority will. It's what BW/LA/EA or whoever you blame are counting on, and they're right to count on it. Please stop, you're not fooling anyone. I have been spending most of my CC on unlocks and consumables like XP charges. I'm not spending my own money on packs anymore. I have been fortunate and people have clicked my referral linked and then subscribed (or already were) so I don't need to spend my own money on CC. THANKS FOLKS!! But even then, I don't really want to buy the GSB packs. I will buy specialized stuff like toy packs. I like my little bit of gambling, don't judge me. Edited January 13, 2016 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Seems like they are more interested by short-term profit instead than healthy long-term economy at least in-game. ( exactly opposite. making them permanent is short term thinking for them. The more they stay in the market the more they lose value. by making them come and go, they are increasing their revenue from them and other packs in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarnestBunbury Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Hey folks, In early December we took the BSG packs off of the Cartel Market to coincide with the launch of the Strategy Alliance Pack. This certainly raised some questions on when they would be returning. We are going to be bringing the BSG packs back to the Market next Tuesday, January 12th, for a limited time. The BSG packs will remain on the Cartel Market for one week, before being embargoed on Tuesday, January 19th. BSG packs will be treated similarly to other previous grand packs, we will be embargoing them but they are likely to return for limited periods in the future. If you want to get yourself some BSG packs, next week will be the time to do it before they become embargoed. Thanks everyone. -eric Who freaking cares, Fix NINJA looting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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